I Pit NotOkay for convincing the entire board umkay had died!

[RTFirefly]

Originally Posted by pseudotriton ruber ruber

And I keep challenging you to provide a post number to this supposed quote where I'm supposedly lying.
[snip]
How about those three digits? Otherwise, the assumption will be that you're trying to send me on a wild-goose chase that's far more arduous for you than for me.

You're making Forrest Gump look like a genius by comparison.

You see the quote box in post 845, the one you're replying to here?

See your name in the quote box, next to the words "Originally Posted by"?

See the little blue box to the right of your name, with an arrowish thing in it?

Ever wondered what would happen if you clicked on it?

If you need the post number, and the quote itself won't do, maybe you ought to try.

Speaking of the fact that I've provided the quote, I can't help but notice you've referred to it as a "supposed quote." Do you really believe I'm misquoting you in a quote box?

The moderators take misrepresentation of a quote within a quote box VERY seriously. (I'm with them 100% on this, fwiw.) If you think that's just a 'supposed' quote in the quote box with your name on it, you should click on the little red triangle with the exclamation point in it, just to see what IT does, and address your concerns to the forum mods by that means.

And instead of typing out those three digits, you persist in playing this elaborate game of verbally describing (only imprecisely) of "I did this, and I provided that and you're so dumb you can't follow my arcane description..."

In post 845, I've re-quoted it in its (quite simple and straightforward) entirety. I don't see how I can get much clearer than that. It's like having a conversation with a lump of concrete.

[RTFirefly]

Anyway, enough of this. I've got better things to do than try to explain to someone over the Internet how to find his ass with both hands.

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

Anyway, enough of this. I've got better things to do than try to explain to someone over the Internet how to find his ass with both hands.

Good. Time to get past the hijack, please. Oy.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by MeanOldLady

Ah hmm.

Jamie, you can keep it real with me. I won't tell anybody. You thought she was a phony all along, didn't you? I know you were all up in this thread like, "O, but WHY would anyone do that?" but your responses to her devotee and "Ask the miracle quad" threads can best be described as "". I was reading those and thinking, "He thinks she's full of shit."

Yes. But I was extremely wary and hesitant to voice any sort of doubt because of the fact that I am disabled and use a wheelchair as well and my time at the Dope has been, um, not quite as rosy as Umkay's and I thought my skepticism might be interpreted-or at least treated-as nothing more than sour grapes. But I was rolling my fuckin' eyes and grindin' my fuckin' teeth like nobody's business for the entire Umkay episode.

[Mama Zappa]

Originally Posted by Pitchmeister

It's from one of the posts immediatey before: "Fuck that shit - I'm not letting it keep me down!"

Egad - my phrase has become an acronym! (I was the one who first used the phrase, in the original thread, umyoo is the one who acronymized it I think).

And, do you all know whether or not I really AM Mrs. Zappa? My son Frank will be in shortly to announce my death.

[Minnie Luna]

Wow. You skip over a thread here and there and you miss a lot...

[Jman]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Yes. But I was extremely wary and hesitant to voice any sort of doubt because of the fact that I am disabled and use a wheelchair as well and my time at the Dope has been, um, not quite as rosy as Umkay's and I thought my skepticism might be interpreted-or at least treated-as nothing more than sour grapes. But I was rolling my fuckin' eyes and grindin' my fuckin' teeth like nobody's business for the entire Umkay episode.

I am interested, though, in what fallacies or points during her pretending were inaccurate. There was (what seemed to be) a lot of good information posted in her thread, and for someone who doesn't know anyone IRL who is paralyzed, I'd be interested in knowing if there was anything (aside from her persona) that was false or misleading. If anything big sticks out, would you mind sharing? At least that way, we can take some good out of this shitstorm.

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Mama Zappa

Egad - my phrase has become an acronym! (I was the one who first used the phrase, in the original thread, umyoo is the one who acronymized it I think).

And, do you all know whether or not I really AM Mrs. Zappa? My son Frank will be in shortly to announce my death.

That'd be a little difficult, I'm afraid.

[Martin Hyde]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

I don't think this person was really a troll; not in the typical sense. This was a "pretender" from the DPW spectrum (devotees, pretenders and wannabees). This is someone who wants, so very badly, to be a quadriplegic that it becomes their life. Now in order to be a good "pretender", a person must become familiar with everything conceivable about the day-to-day goings-on related to the particular disability they are faking. Even down to the most mundane, miniscule detail. It is in this sense that a pretender can actually be more knowledgeable about the specific information about their disabilities than even some real disabled people. They've actually sought the info out and studied in, consumed it, and have to keep it constantly in the forefront.

I wonder what this person, sez-kay, is like in real life. I wonder how extensively the pretending carries over. Does (s)he (I actually do think this is a woman) use a wheelchair? Pretending to be quadriplegic would seem to be mighty difficult in real life, most pretenders that I've read about have been paraplegic pretenders. But the internet gives limitless pretend possibilities; as evidenced by her multiple hoaxes on multiple boards. I'm sure there's more.

But at the core, with all the DPW (yes, even devotees), of course is an illness. These pretenders really do feel happiness when they live as disabled. They feel as though it is the way they are meant to live. Wannabees actually take this a step further and mutilate their bodies in order to permanently disable themselves. So I don't think "hate" is the right thing to feel here; not at all. Perhaps empathy and a little pity; these people are suffering through some fucked up psychological trauma of some sort and I can only think they hurt.

I didn't follow that thread close enough to judge whether she seemed fake or not, but I actually know of someone who is like her but with blindness. He even goes out in public and lives as a blind man, and will keep his eyes covered in his home so that he isn't using his natural sight to navigate around the house. It's not hysterical blindness, but a deep desire to be blind, that has manifested in him trying to live as a blind man as much as possible.

I don't know what the psychiatric diagnosis is, but yeah, he's definitely mentally ill.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Jman

I am interested, though, in what fallacies or points during her pretending were inaccurate. There was (what seemed to be) a lot of good information posted in her thread, and for someone who doesn't know anyone IRL who is paralyzed, I'd be interested in knowing if there was anything (aside from her persona) that was false or misleading. If anything big sticks out, would you mind sharing? At least that way, we can take some good out of this shitstorm.

Well as I said, pretenders are extremely knowledgeable and well-versed in the information and details about "their" disability. It wasn't so much anything about her conveyance of info that was dubious, rather it was a collection of small little idiosyncracies, little weird inconsistencies or the details of her actual life that didn't sit right.

Things such as her blaming her "true loves" not working out due to the fact that they couldn't picture themselves being with a quad in a wheelchair. If two people are "in love" then the extent of a person's disability is truly irrelevant.

Or being extremely vague about any potential identifying features in her life (no matter how obscure). The fact that a extremely gregarious, extroverted 20-something woman who allegedly has a career based on the internet who also has NO facebook account is HIGHLY suspiscious.

And what might the circumstances be that would lead to one-night stands for a C4 quad who has all the issues she does?

There are more but these are what jump out right off the bat.

[Hentor the Barbarian]

We should all be grateful that we had such a well informed troll - a wiki-troll as it were.

If only there was some way to find out what being paralyzed is like other than a spontaneous visit from a fake quadriplegic!

ETA: this post was not in response to Ambivalid, but to the general expression of gratitude for the afterschool special expertise to which we were exposed.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian

If only there was some way to find out what being paralyzed is like other than a spontaneous visit from a fake quadriplegic!

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

[Jman]

That WOULD be a fun thread!

Thanks, Ambivalid....I just wanted to know if I should basically toss out the 'factual' information relating to the injury, since I actually felt like I learned a great deal reading the thread. But it sounds like I can log that into my memory banks as generally true information.

[Capt Kirk]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

AMBI please do start that thread, could be the worst idea ever but please start that thread

BTW wanna bet that she is watching all this with a big effing grin KWIM

CAPT

[Hentor the Barbarian]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

Not that you should not, but my real point was that there are multitudes of sources of such information all over the internet and IRL. It's a stupid and patently transparent rationalization to suggest that being gullible was okay because hey at least I learned some information.

[billfish678]

nm

[Saint Cad]

Originally Posted by Do Not Taunt

Umkay isn't married, but her family is loaded bankers.

If I didn't think it would get me banned, I would start an alt that's the rich banker related to umkay who was coincidently the rich drunk banker that hit sezyoo

[Mama Zappa]

Originally Posted by Leaffan

That'd be a little difficult, I'm afraid.

What do you mean? Just because li'l Frankie-snookikins and I don't talk much these days, doesn't mean...

uh?

what????

Some fake troll news agencies reported that he's DEAD???? .

[Lemur866]

There's no easy way to say this...but RichBanker001 died 20 minutes ago after accidentally crashing his motorized wheelchair into a girl in a motorized wheelchair on his way home from underwater wheelchair skydiving.

[PlainJain]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

I double-dog dare ya!

[Crotalus]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Yes. But I was extremely wary and hesitant to voice any sort of doubt because of the fact that I am disabled and use a wheelchair as well and my time at the Dope has been, um, not quite as rosy as Umkay's and I thought my skepticism might be interpreted-or at least treated-as nothing more than sour grapes. But I was rolling my fuckin' eyes and grindin' my fuckin' teeth like nobody's business for the entire Umkay episode.

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

Dude, you have had some rocky times here, and I have at times thought some pretty negative things about you. Between the great judgment in the first post and the humor in the second, I have decided that you rock. Not that you have any reason to care what I think. And I would totally read that thread.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by Lemur866

There's no easy way to say this...but RichBanker001 died 20 minutes ago after accidentally crashing his motorized wheelchair into a girl in a motorized wheelchair on his way home from underwater wheelchair skydiving.

Baloney.

Anybody with a username that ends in 3 digits is a lying sack of shit

[Saint Cad]

Originally Posted by Lemur866

There's no easy way to say this...but RichBanker001 died 20 minutes ago after accidentally crashing his motorized wheelchair into a girl in a motorized wheelchair on his way home from underwater wheelchair skydiving.

Good as long as ExDrunkButStillRichBanker is still around to open his
Ask the Guy Whose Drinking Led to a Horrible Coincidence thread.

[BMalion]

Ask The Troll Not In A Wheelchair

[lorene]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well as I said, pretenders are extremely knowledgeable and well-versed in the information and details about "their" disability. It wasn't so much anything about her conveyance of info that was dubious, rather it was a collection of small little idiosyncracies, little weird inconsistencies or the details of her actual life that didn't sit right.

<snip>

Or being extremely vague about any potential identifying features in her life (no matter how obscure). The fact that a extremely gregarious, extroverted 20-something woman who allegedly has a career based on the internet who also has NO facebook account is HIGHLY suspiscious.

One of the things that I noticed was that, when describing her fancy bed or computer set-up or any piece of equipment, she would link to a product page but never a picture of what her own piece of equipment looked like. Of course one could excuse that as her wanting us to be able to see manufacturer information, but I thought it was a red flag that it was always links and never "here's what my shower chair looks like".

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

I'm getting a visual of you sitting there, with a mic mounted under your chair so your sphincter can do all the talkin'...

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

Meh, from your postings to various threads, a lot of that ground has been covered. I'm actually more interested in the experiences you (and others) have had with this "DPW spectrum" stuff. Seems like that would be the more interesting and productive offshoot to this saga. And really, ISTM that to fight the ignorance of what goes on in that world by shining a light on it, would be the perfect kind of antidote to this whole mess.

[Taomist]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Well there's always...



Ask The Asshole in The Wheelchair

Start this thread NOW!

[Skammer]

My sister-in-law who is a quad (MS, not SCI) wants to know where she can find one of those devotee guys. Does she need references?

[Heffalump and Roo]

Originally Posted by olivesmarch4th

Happened to me. I left for about three months IIRC. And it was not a pleasant three months.

Though I do feel that if you have that strong of an emotional reaction to events on a message board, it's a sign you have to get right with yourself. I feel like posters ought to show a bit of decorum when playing Jr. Detective, but I also feel that the accused is responsible for how s/he reacts to such rudeness.

I want to apologize for any part I played in that. I'm sorry that it caused you hurt. It wasn't my intention to be hurtful.

As I was watching people make accusations early in the thread, I was thinking that it's easy to accuse because if you're right, you can feel smug, but if you're wrong, no one remembers so no one has to apologize. So I'm apologizing 6 years later.

If it's any consolation, I've been in the middle of troll hunts and now know how it feels. There's really nothing that someone in the middle of that can do once people make up their mind up about something and several people join in. People predicting what an innocent person would do in that situation probably haven't been in that situation themselves. Everything that you do is more confirmation bias of guilt. It almost doesn't matter what it is.

This is not to minimize my actions, but to answer some of the people who are sure of their troll detection abilities, I think that some people can look like trolls and exhibit the classic signs but it's really hard to know people's motivations. When olivesmarch4th left the board, it could have been viewed as her giving up the gig, but that was not the case. There were lots of other classic signs that seemed obvious to me at the time and convinced quite a few others, but only hindsight gives the bigger picture.

ETA: I'm not making any comments in this post about the whole umkay situation. I didn't follow her threads all that closely. I was just commenting generally on the subject of troll detection after reading this thread.

[conurepete]

It did not occur to me if she was real or not. I couldn't get through her thread. It read like an Occupational Therapy Inservice.

[Tangent]

Originally Posted by RTFirefly

It's as if you were wondering where the hell your pillow was, and you decided to look everywhere except on the bed.

I once dreamed I was eating a giant marshmallow. When I woke up, my pillow was gone.

[gamerunknown]

Originally Posted by Hentor the Barbarian

For those posters crying over an anonymous person on the internet and wanting to send a fake dead quadriplegic girl flowers, think about someone in your real life who might actually need or appreciate some of your attention and go give it to them instead.

Nobody that doesn't care what other people think on the internet actually posts to a forum. It's as much use to them as typing in a Word document and deleting it. There's a category of people for whom the only intention is to produce negative emotions in other people, to which they expend great effort and then claim that the ones with at least a minimal investment in the happiness of others (whether seen or not) are the abnormal ones.

It's not really relevant to the thread, considering the scepticism is warranted and people should be cautious about an emotional reaction over the internet without tangible evidence (such as an obituary). Doesn't mean the majority of people behind the keyboard aren't real though.

[billfish678]

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

). Doesn't mean the majority of people behind the keyboard aren't real though.

Hell, I hope everybody is real behind the keyboard. I'm not quite ready for all that naked govenator of California Sky Net shit.

[Missy2U]

So. This whole thing has gone seriously WAY into the realm of the absurd.

By the way, I got some of them Jewel frozen egg-rolls - you cook 'em in the oven for half an hour - they are darned tasty!!! And for ten for ten bucks??? That's a DEAL, dude!

On another note, REALLY GUYS?? I've known some of you since 1999 - perspective - how many of these moronic trolls have we suffered since back in the day? This latest one? Why put so much emotional energy into the outrage - I got duped too in the I'm dead thread - but if I don't GIVE A RAT'S ASS then they didn't WIN! So chill - really - look at it this way. The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference - so since we all know the troll is probably still reading (you can read even if you can't post) and sucking up all this attention - um - STOP IT! Know what I mean? ]Even though the troll be gone, you don't need to feed their inner-attention whore with continued commentary!! Am I making sense to ANYONE?

Sorry. It's kind of a Missy-homespun-kinda-trying-to-give-advice-that-noone-will-listen-to-anyway kind of a thing.

So. The Jewel brand frozen egg-rolls were really good! Try em! Ten for ten bucks - its a really good deal!

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Crotalus

Dude, you have had some rocky times here, and I have at times thought some pretty negative things about you. Between the great judgment in the first post and the humor in the second, I have decided that you rock. Not that you have any reason to care what I think. And I would totally read that thread.

Thanks. If you had something rotten to say, sure then I'd have no reason to care but it's a compliment man! Much appreciated.

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by Missy2U

The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference - so since we all know the troll is probably still reading (you can read even if you can't post) and sucking up all this attention - um - STOP IT! Know what I mean? ]Even though the troll be gone, you don't need to feed their inner-attention whore with continued commentary!! Am I making sense to ANYONE?

Are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of lols?

People are still posting to this thread because they are enjoying it. It's the best wank we have had in ages. Who cares if it feeds the troll? She's gone.

If you don't enjoy this kind of thing, then don't partake. But the rest of us have a full tub of Vaseline a whole box of Kleenex and we can make it to 20 pages, baby.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Martin Hyde

I didn't follow that thread close enough to judge whether she seemed fake or not, but I actually know of someone who is like her but with blindness. He even goes out in public and lives as a blind man, and will keep his eyes covered in his home so that he isn't using his natural sight to navigate around the house. It's not hysterical blindness, but a deep desire to be blind, that has manifested in him trying to live as a blind man as much as possible.

I don't know what the psychiatric diagnosis is, but yeah, he's definitely mentally ill.

Munchausen's Syndrome.

Originally Posted by gamerunknown

Nobody that doesn't care what other people think on the internet actually posts to a forum.

Anyone else try to parse this?

[Myrnalene]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Anyone else try to parse this?

Seems pretty clear to me. People only post to public forums because at some level they think what they have is worth sharing and they want other people to respond to it.

[Siam Sam]

I've not chimed in so far in any of the umkay, Notokay etc threads, but they've all been thoroughly entertaining, this one included. Have to say I've noticed a suspiciously unusual uptick in brand-new posters signing up to relate massive tales of woe. Slaughtered families, down-spiraling relationships. I guess this must be summer break over in the West. I'm curious if the IPs of many of these posters might be from the same general geographic area, as I suspect umkay, like a bad bowl of chili, may still be with us.

[Manda JO]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Munchausen's Syndrome.

I thought Munchausen's involved needing to be medically treated, like compulsively reporting "abdominal pain" in order to get operated on, or taking poison to mimic the symptoms of some disease. People with Munchhausen's want to be patients. A crazy desire to be disabled is still crazy, but it seems like different crazy. Disabled isn't sick.

[Missy2U]

Originally Posted by Myrnalene

Are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of lols?

People are still posting to this thread because they are enjoying it. It's the best wank we have had in ages. Who cares if it feeds the troll? She's gone.

If you don't enjoy this kind of thing, then don't partake. But the rest of us have a full tub of Vaseline a whole box of Kleenex and we can make it to 20 pages, baby.

I think I may LOVE you! I BOW to you, baby!

[Leaffan]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

I thought Munchausen's involved needing to be medically treated, like compulsively reporting "abdominal pain" in order to get operated on, or taking poison to mimic the symptoms of some disease. People with Munchhausen's want to be patients. A crazy desire to be disabled is still crazy, but it seems like different crazy. Disabled isn't sick.

I don't know who, but a poster in one of these many threads called it "Munchausen's by Proxy Server."

Holy shit that was funny!

[Astroboy14]

Originally Posted by Myrnalene

Are you completely unfamiliar with the concept of lols?

People are still posting to this thread because they are enjoying it. It's the best wank we have had in ages. Who cares if it feeds the troll? She's gone.

If you don't enjoy this kind of thing, then don't partake. But the rest of us have a full tub of Vaseline a whole box of Kleenex and we can make it to 20 pages, baby.

Agreed. I am not pro-troll, but damn it's funny!

It's like playing with my dog:

I have a tennis ball. He wants to chase it. So I wave it around, pull my arm back and pretend I'm gonna throw it but don't... wave it around some more. And he loves it! He jumps around getting more and more excited, going "throw the ball! Throw the ball! THROW THE BAAAALLLLLL!!!!"

Then I throw the ball, except not really. I hide it behind my back.

He runs a few steps in the direction of the throw, then stops with an expression of betrayal/confusion/hurt on his face. Yeah, it's kinda mean to laugh at him, but that's some funny shit!

Here's the thing though: I'm pointing and laughing at him, but there's NO malice involved. He's dumb as a box of hammers, but I love the little bastard.

So here comes umkay, waves a tennis ball around for a few days, and we puppies love it! Then notokay "throws" the ball, and the fun starts!

The difference is that my dog has a sense of humor. He soon realizes that I still have the tennis ball and immediately the hurt is gone, he has his doggie smile back, and he's jumping up and down going "you asshole, throw the ball!!! THROW THE GODDAMN BALL!!!"

Here, notokay "throws" the ball, and people run after it for a few steps... then there's confusion, extreme butt-hurt, denial, claims of "I wasn't fooled for a second!", outrage, disbelief, etc. etc. etc.

THAT'S some funny shit right there!

To make it even funnier, it'll happen again! Next week, next month, maybe as far away as next year. And I'm just as likely to be caught up in it as any of you fools.

So, I'm NOT pro-troll, but goddamn it can be funny as hell.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

I thought Munchausen's involved needing to be medically treated, like compulsively reporting "abdominal pain" in order to get operated on, or taking poison to mimic the symptoms of some disease. People with Munchhausen's want to be patients. A crazy desire to be disabled is still crazy, but it seems like different crazy. Disabled isn't sick.

It's part of it. Munchausen's is basically faking illness or injury in order to gain sympathy, or attention. Often people will make themselves sick, or hurt in order to do so. If faking a disability achieves that, I would imagine they would do so.

(Munchausen by Proxy is doing so to another person -- mainly children. They usually end up making said child sick.)

[BMalion]

And I now believe the reason I was snookered is two-fold:

1. I have met lots of Dopers, it's big in N.E. Ohio (had a few Dopefests at my own house) some have graduated to dear friends. I trust Dopers.

2. Do to my own medical issues (MS, soon to get a wheelchair myself) I was mentally off my guard.

Oh well.

Maybe I'll start a thread,

Ask The Real Guy Soon To Be In A Real Wheelchair, (With Proof)

[Alessan]

Originally Posted by Manda JO

I thought Munchausen's involved needing to be medically treated, like compulsively reporting "abdominal pain" in order to get operated on, or taking poison to mimic the symptoms of some disease. People with Munchhausen's want to be patients. A crazy desire to be disabled is still crazy, but it seems like different crazy. Disabled isn't sick.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it involves tying your horse to a church steeple, riding a cannonball and travelling to the moon.

[Cinnamon Imp]

Originally Posted by LaurenIpsum

So should we keep an eye out on Reddit for someone starting a IAmA thread about being a quadriplegic?

I think it would be hysterical if she tried it on the Giraffe Boards next. She might not know there's a certain amount of overlap between them and us[1], and oh, the fun that could be had.

[1] Except she'd know now, d'oh!

[Asimovian]

Originally Posted by BMalion

Maybe I'll start a thread,

Ask The Real Guy Soon To Be In A Real Wheelchair, (With Proof)

If you aren't rich and pretty, we don't want any.

[BMalion]

Originally Posted by Asimovian

If you aren't rich and pretty, we don't want any.

I'm well-off (the bills are paid) and not bad looking, does that count?

Besides, what do you know about wheelchairs anyway? Sheesh.