How come no one talks about "consensual" domestic violence?

[grude]

Bit of a misnomer there isn't it? Well to me that is the problem, there is some domestic violence that is basically two people in love with wailing on each other.

You know the apartment with the nightly fight and police call, so what the hell can an outsider do there?

I've known cases so nutty both parties are violating protection orders to get together for a secret romantic beat up.

When I see domestic violence PSAs that are like see something, do something I am like what exactly?

[Blackberry]

I think it's very difficult to tell from the outside if it's really that mutual. It's like how some people will say that a woman is asking for it because it appears that she deliberately provokes the man, when really she's just trying to have some measure of control over WHEN the inevitable happens, plus then they can get back to the honeymoon phase (not a great way to handle things, of course, but it's different than "asking for it").

So, if I knew someone in what looked like a mutually violent situation, I'd still call the police, offer help, etc.

[Nava]

It gets mentioned but not directly, when people talk about "people who love make-up sex".

My Grandparents from Hell were like that: no hitting, but every lunch would be a screaming fight in front of the kids. What the kids never got to see were the 4pm boxes of chocolates and 4:05pm make-up sex.

[bot3]

Originally Posted by Nava

It gets mentioned but not directly, when people talk about "people who love make-up sex".

My Grandparents from Hell were like that: no hitting, but every lunch would be a screaming fight in front of the kids. What the kids never got to see were the 4pm boxes of chocolates and 4:05pm make-up sex.

I'd have to say that was a good thing.

[DianaG]

While recognizing that there are extraordinary circumstances that prevent a small number of people from leaving an abusive relationship, I'd say that 97% of domestic violence is consensual. The first time a person hits you, that's a surprise. The second time a person hits you (and every time thereafter) you consented to that by, you know, being there.

[Ravenman]

Originally Posted by DianaG

The second time a person hits you (and every time thereafter) you consented to that by, you know, being there.

I disagree. While I don't personally know anyone (that I know of) who has been in a long-term physically abusive relationship, I would think that the amount of volition in staying in an abusive relationship is about the same as being addicted to heroin or something. (For different reasons, of course.) I think that the reasons for staying in an abusive relationship have more to do with threats, fear, or a messed-up family background that makes one compelled to seek and embrace chaos, and prohibits common sense like DTMFA.

[elbows]

there is some domestic violence that is basically two people in love with wailing on each other.

And you can identify this 'type' by sight? How?

And the 'type' that turns into whatever you consider to be 'true' abuse begins how? Because I'd wager the first type, which you seem to find acceptable on some level, is just the onset of something that will transform into the second type.

If you and your spouse actually enjoy going a few rounds, I don't think anyone cares.

You got kids watching/in the house, it's so loud as to disturb neighbours, cops attend, blood is drawn, ambulances attend, any of these and society has the right to intervene.

It's illegal to beat on your spouse, whether or not they are a half willing participant, doesn't really enter into it. And if they keep it up, they should both be charged every time the police are called. Let them pay the damn fines until they grow up, I say!

Low key roundhousing, in the privacy of your home, without disturbing the neighbours, for your own amusement, is the exception though, not the rule.

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

And you can identify this 'type' by sight? How?

And the 'type' that turns into whatever you consider to be 'true' abuse begins how? Because I'd wager the first type, which you seem to find acceptable on some level, is just the onset of something that will transform into the second type.

If you and your spouse actually enjoy going a few rounds, I don't think anyone cares.

You got kids watching/in the house, it's so loud as to disturb neighbours, cops attend, blood is drawn, ambulances attend, any of these and society has the right to intervene.

It's illegal to beat on your spouse, whether or not they are a half willing participant, doesn't really enter into it. And if they keep it up, they should both be charged every time the police are called. Let them pay the damn fines until they grow up, I say!

Low key roundhousing, in the privacy of your home, without disturbing the neighbours, for your own amusement, is the exception though, not the rule.

I have no clue what you're on about, please point to where I said any kind was acceptable for starters.

On sight? What does this mean? You usually notice because calling police just gets one or both parties hauled away, just to return and start again.

Acceptable?!

[elbows]

When I see domestic violence PSAs that are like see something, do something I am like what exactly?

Sorry then. I took this curious sentence to imply there are some domestic violence situation that it's okay to just walk by without intervening.

My bad. I parsed that sentence more than once, as it seemed unclear, but apologies if I mistook your point.

I'm too confused as to what it is you want to talk about clearly, I'm out.

[ftg]

Comedian Kristine Levine covers the topic in a bit from the documentary: The Unbookables. (NSFW.)

SPOILER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwlE9Loh1wo

(And if you have to ask why she is considered one of the unbookables, check out her other videos on YouTube.)

[Hampshire]

I haven't followed it that closely and it's just a gut feeling, but it seems the Chris Brown & Rhianna thing is like that.
Like when she got beat up and eveyone was screaming (and rightly so) "You never hit a woman, you never hit anybody" that she never really agreed with that. Almost like even though she took a bad beating she didn't think it was that big of a deal. Enough to even get back together with the guy.

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

Sorry then. I took this curious sentence to imply there are some domestic violence situation that it's okay to just walk by without intervening.

My bad. I parsed that sentence more than once, as it seemed unclear, but apologies if I mistook your point.

I'm too confused as to what it is you want to talk about clearly, I'm out.

Not ok so much as resignation at the fact your actions don't seem to accomplish anything, and can sometimes even backfire and start involving yourself. One or both partners can decide the one calling the police is their mortal enemy and start asking around the neighborhood grapevine or someone tells them the police were seen speaking to you. (WTF is the reason the police do that anyway?)

Its like having a friend who constantly talks about suicide, you literally can't report every threat because their family and other friends even would just circle the wagons and claim you a liar etc. So what can you do? Report extra serious seeming threats only?

[elbows]

I report all domestic violence and let the police sort it out. My actions are to report, not 'sort things out', that's the police's job.

Where I live, I can call the police discreetly, the only way anyone would know, I'd called, would be if I chose to tell them.

Now you want to talk about suicide threats? I'm confused again!

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

I report all domestic violence and let the police sort it out. My actions are to report, not 'sort things out', that's the police's job.

Where I live, I can call the police discreetly, the only way anyone would know, I'd called, would be if I chose to tell them.

Now you want to talk about suicide threats? I'm confused again!

You make those PSAs don't you?

[Nava]

Originally Posted by bot3

I'd have to say that was a good thing.

The not seeing the sex, yes. The thinking a normal marriage consists of yelling abuse at each other, not so much. The trying to have the exact opposite and therefore having your own kids think their parents were born in perfect agreement (the agreement being that the answer to any request on the child's part is "no"), call me crazy but neither.

[Chimera]

Originally Posted by DianaG

I'd say that 97% of domestic violence is consensual. The first time a person hits you, that's a surprise. The second time a person hits you (and every time thereafter) you consented to that by, you know, being there.

It isn't that easy. I wish it was, and I used to think this way, but I found out otherwise.

Originally Posted by elbows

I report all domestic violence and let the police sort it out.

Probably would not have ended well for me when my wife was attacking me in my sleep or "accidentally" shoving me into things and then telling other people that I was the one who was abusive (while strangely never providing a single example of what I was supposed to have been doing). If the police showed up, I'm quite certain as the male and the larger person, they would have believed her crying and arrested me.

[elbows]

You make those PSAs don't you?

Sorry to disappoint. Next time try to make it clear in your OP that you're just looking for agreement, not actual discussion. Then you won't be so crushed.

Care to explain what's so wrong about reporting violence and letting the police sort it out? Why it deserves the lame face?

Especially since you yourself, just a little up thread, seemed concerned about getting involved based on your own safety. It was in response, to that comment, that I posted. If you fear repercussions, don't step in, just report it, let cops sort it out, they are trained to and know the law. Seems self evident to me.

[Sehmket]

I do think there can be some grey area here - my husband and I "play fight" a lot, but because we both are fairly athletic and have done some grappling training, our play fights can look pretty rough to outsiders (although not as rough as my husband and brother's play fights). Our regular group of friends knows we're just playing - even if we might end up with a few bruises, but I've been called out more than once for mysterious bruises and once had a park ranger called over to our campsite. Now, I don't think this is as extreme as what the OP was talking about, as our play fights are mostly grappling with a few light punches and knees, and there's usually some smiles and laughs, but they've been known to surprise people.

(I think most of the mysterious bruises comments were more from fencing bruises, which in their defense, can look absolutely horrifying)

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

Sorry to disappoint. Next time try to make it clear in your OP that you're just looking for agreement, not actual discussion. Then you won't be so crushed.

Care to explain what's so wrong about reporting violence and letting the police sort it out? Why it deserves the lame face?

Especially since you yourself, just a little up thread, seemed concerned about getting involved based on your own safety. It was in response, to that comment, that I posted. If you fear repercussions, don't step in, just report it, let cops sort it out, they are trained to and know the law. Seems self evident to me.

I don't want agreement, but I never gave approval or acceptance to anything.

In Houston the cops ALWAYS come to the caller's door for a statement, unless you call from a payphone and ignore the requests to identify yourself. Then they ask for your ID, and anyone else present to go run them for warrants. They also like to try to come inside to fish around. But that is the big city, small towns are WORSE as everyone knows everything so good luck on staying anonymous. The assailants will even get powerful family involved.

In that enviroment yes I would pause to make the 3rd or 4th call to report domestic violence, I'm not interested in becoming two nutball's archenemy.

[Chimera]

Let me give you an example.

I got to sleep around midnight Tuesday night. At 1am yesterday morning (the 4th), I wake up to one of my neighbors rather flatly yelling "somebody help me" over and over. I get up, go to my door and listen. As I do so, one of the other neighbors steps out, says she has already called 911 and demands to know what is going on. The woman says that her boyfriend is off his meds and she's not going to let him leave because he'll hurt himself. He denies this, claims that she's drunk and doesn't know what she's talking about, then says that he doesn't need his meds.

I step out briefly just for a visual, because there's no fucking way I'm stepping into the middle of a domestic between a drunk and someone off their meds, and I see her in the door way, one hand on the door and one arm holding him. No blood, no real violence, just a little bit of feeble wrestling. If he really wanted to get through her, he could.

I call 911 as well. They already know my address and say that "lots of help is already on the way".

BTW: She's lived there about 6 months, he moved in last weekend.

The man gets out and they stand in the hall arguing. Again, at that point he could have just left. Five minutes later a half dozen cops show up. Very quietly and very professionally, they interview both of them and interview me because I opened the door to speak to them. They ask her what she wants to do and she decides that he should leave. They ask him where if he has somewhere to go, and he says he can go to his parents house. They quietly escort him out* without cuffs, without threats, without even touching him, and the whole thing was over.

* Honestly, they were so quiet about the whole thing that I wouldn't have known they were outside my door if I hadn't been standing right there. I doubt I would have heard them at all if I'd been in bed.

[TriPolar]

I guess if I know that people are engaging in consenual violence, within certain limitations, it's none of my business. But I don't really want to know people who act like that, and coming across this situation by chance I'd have to assume it's not consensual. The limitations are that it's not great violence anyway. Even if it's consensual I can't stand by and watch two people kill each other. And I detest the idea of an unfair fight, so no way I let the big one beat the the hell out of the little one just because they can.

[Chimera]

I should add that they didn't knock on the doors of anyone else who called and those people didn't come out to speak to the police.

[MsRobyn]

Originally Posted by Ravenman

I disagree. While I don't personally know anyone (that I know of) who has been in a long-term physically abusive relationship, I would think that the amount of volition in staying in an abusive relationship is about the same as being addicted to heroin or something. (For different reasons, of course.) I think that the reasons for staying in an abusive relationship have more to do with threats, fear, or a messed-up family background that makes one compelled to seek and embrace chaos, and prohibits common sense like DTMFA.

I've never dealt with this, but I know more than one person who has, and fairly closely.

There are a lot of reasons why someone would want to stay with an abusive partner. Some are financial; the abused partner may be so completely dependent on the abuser that she can't afford to leave. She may not have worked in a while and doesn't have the skills or the support system to get one, because the abuser cut her off from anyone who can pitch in to watch the kids. No money means no separation, and social services often means some busybody who pries into her private life.

Some are due to fear or threats. Most, if not all, abusers are wonderful at mind games. Even if they do not make direct threats, they make their victims feel like they have been threatened directly, but the lack of direct threats makes the abuser much harder to prosecute, and the abuser generally knows this. In fact, many abusers know the limits of the law and know how close they can get without crossing those limits. It's very difficult to leave if you know or think you will be physically hurt if you do, and you may not trust anyone else to keep you safe, even a domestic violence shelter, and the lack of threats and relatively minor acts of violence (a pinch here or a smack there or other acts that don't leave visible marks) make it difficult to take legal action since no one saw or heard anything.

And some are due to cultural or family issues. I once met a woman who was in an abusive relationship. She came from a cultural and religious background that held that you never leave your husband, ever, and that if your husband is abusive, it's because you're not a good-enough wife and mother. (I can't remember the specifics, but it's some uber-fundie sect.) He beat her almost to death in front of their kids, claiming that he needed to put the fear of God into her. A neighbor called an ambulance, and the hospital called the cops and social services. Hubby was sent to jail for a while, and the wife -- with the help of social services and private charity -- was able to leave the community with her kids and start a new life elsewhere.

Domestic violence is a complicated problem, and sometimes, there are no good solutions.

[elbows]

You may beat your slave often, but chances are you only had to beat him into complete submission once. Thereafter you needed only raise your arm and he would submit.

When you're beating someone into complete submission, it's not uncommon to continually tell them things like, "No one gives a shit about you! No one cares! No one is coming to help you! I could kill you right now and no one would ever know! No one can hear you!" The two things, combined together, damage people in ways you cannot even imagine.

People stay in ongoing violent relationships sometimes because they have been beaten into submission. They are convinced no one can help them, no one cares, no one even notices what's happening to them. The oppressor, in this circumstance may begin to feel cocky and take his violence out into the open, where others can see. When no one reacts, reports or notices, it totally reinforces the beaters message to the victim, that no one cares.

I don't care if, when the police show up, they get shined on. I don't care if they want my name, I'm happy to give it, I've done nothing wrong. Should the beater make overtures to me, I'll call the police on him too.

I am not capable of just walking by, when I see violence being perpetrated on another, it's not in my make up.

[overlyverbose]

Originally Posted by DianaG

While recognizing that there are extraordinary circumstances that prevent a small number of people from leaving an abusive relationship, I'd say that 97% of domestic violence is consensual. The first time a person hits you, that's a surprise. The second time a person hits you (and every time thereafter) you consented to that by, you know, being there.

I think that's a huge stretch and extraordinarily easy to say if you've never been in an abusive relationship. Having been in a physically and emotionally abusive relationship, I can tell you that I was terrified out of my mind to leave him. He threatened to kill me and my family and, given that he raped me repeatedly and beat the shit out of me on a regular basis, why would I suspect he wouldn't? And I felt like I was absolutely nothing - completely powerless and unimportant to anyone and everyone.

Also, I was in high school. I really didn't think I could tell anyone what was going on and, looking back, I simply wasn't emotionally secure enough to know that I had any power whatsoever over the situation. It's kind of frustrating for me to see this mindset because it's so very simplistic (no, I'm not calling the poster "simple"), like telling someone who's depressed to just snap out of it.

As for "consensual" domestic violence, it's so hard to tell. If I think someone is being hurt, I'm probably going to call the cops one way or the other.

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

I am not capable of just walking by, when I see violence being perpetrated on another, it's not in my make up.

Well good on you then, if someone really wants help I'm glad to do more than call police. But I'm not going to waste my time if it is clear I'm just going to become a pawn in someone's drama game. There is only so much time in the day.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by grude

Well good on you then, if someone really wants help I'm glad to do more than call police. But I'm not going to waste my time if it is clear I'm just going to become a pawn in someone's drama game. There is only so much time in the day.

A few years back, someone here told a story about trying to get some guy (a total stranger to the Good Samaritan Doper) to stop wailing on his girlfriend outside of a restaurant, whereupon the couple did indeed disengage from assaulting each other, and both of them started hitting the meddling interloper....

[Ferret Herder]

If people want to be honestly consensually violent toward each other, they need to shut the fuck up while doing it and do it in private, or take up socially-acceptable sports that allow them to beat the shit out of each other. Kendo (essentially Japanese fencing) left me with some impressive bruises, and my friends and I would compare them after practice.

Similar to what Nava mentioned, I knew a couple (friends of friends) who just freaking loved having screaming fits at each other, then having crazy make-up sex afterwards. Good for them, right? Yeah, not so much when it leads to stuff like:
- screaming leads to noise violation/domestic abuse call while the lovebirds were staying in my friends' house temporarily while they're looking for a place
- screaming fit and then disappearing for make-up sex while they're hosting a cookout for a bunch of friends in their backyard (at least they went into the house for both, but you could still hear the yelling) - we had to sit there and roll our eyes, then avoid making awkward remarks later
- having a little girl and continuing their behavior with her around, so she gets to live in fear of her parents' volatile nature/'why do Mommy and Daddy fight, is it my fault'/learn this oh-so-healthy model of adult romantic relationships.

[elbows]

But I'm not going to waste my time if it is clear I'm just going to become a pawn in someone's drama game.

No, good on you for being able to distinguish real violence from 'consensual' on sight. You should offer your services to the police.

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

No, good on you for being able to distinguish real violence from 'consensual' on sight. You should offer your services to the police.

I never claimed that, I thought I made it clear I was talking about couples where police are there more than the pizza guy.

[MLS]

Nitpick: The verb you're looking for is "whaling," not "wailing." Although someone whaling on you may lead to your wailing in pain.

[Chimera]

I dunno, maybe "wailing" is some strange non-physical emotional bukkake.

[MsWhatsit]

Originally Posted by Ferret Herder

If people want to be honestly consensually violent toward each other, they need to shut the fuck up while doing it and do it in private, or take up socially-acceptable sports that allow them to beat the shit out of each other. Kendo (essentially Japanese fencing) left me with some impressive bruises, and my friends and I would compare them after practice.

Agreed. If I can hear someone being beaten, I'm not really that interested in whether or not they're being beaten up "consensually," (which according to some in this thread seems to mean "not having left an abusive relationship yet," which seems like a pretty broad stretch of the term "consensual"). I'm calling the cops and letting them sort it out. If you don't want your consensual beating to attract the attention of the police, then don't let the neighbors hear it.

[elbows]

Sorry if I misunderstood.

if someone really wants help I'm glad to do more than call police. But I'm not going to waste my time if it is clear I'm just going to become a pawn in someone's drama game.

So how, when you walk past something in the street, do you distinguish between they, 'really want help', and, 'becoming a pawn in someone's drama game'?

Are you asking questions? Do you know them personally? Judging by their clothes? Watching for a while first? Decide she's asking for it for being such a shrew? Seen them before, must just be their way?

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

Sorry if I misunderstood.



So how, when you walk past something in the street, do you distinguish between they, 'really want help', and, 'becoming a pawn in someone's drama game'?

Are you asking questions? Do you know them personally? Judging by their clothes? Watching for a while first? Decide she's asking for it for being such a shrew? Seen them before, must just be their way?

You've been trying to imply shit forever, when none was implied by my OP.

I made the topic because I find the topic frustrating to deal with, but obviously I really think the shrew deserves a few good smacks. Gimme a break.

[elbows]

I'm not implying anything, actually, just trying to get to the actual pith of whatever it is you're trying to say.

Is there some reason you can't answer the question I asked you? You seem to be able to distinguish something called 'consensual' violence from 'run of the mill' violence. I'm just trying to understand how you do that.

(You're welcome to put in as many roll eyes as you need, if that helps.)

[Chimera]

Those seemed like legitimate questions to me.

[grude]

Well first of all if I walk by people fighting on the street I'd call the cops if possible, why wouldn't I?

A example of the frustrating crap I'm talking about is one of my wife's distant cousins who lives a few doors down. He has had a decades long "relationship" with a woman who doesn't live with him and who he has no kids with, she also is not dependent on him financially. However they occasionally get together to get high, have sex, fight and attempt murder.

She has set him and his room on fire, doused him with kerosine and set him on fire. He refused to press charges or even discuss it with the police saying it was an accident.

She once slashed himup with a knife(she probably got slashed too) and he was forced by family to go to the hospital. Once again he refused to speak to police, they even put him in the psych ward for suicide attemps.

He has yanked her out of a moving car, they both beat each other up in public all the time. ONCE this lead to himgoing to jail because cops just happened to be passing and saw it, they usually take off before police arrive.

After the fire incident he got into a fistfight with a male family member who said the insanity had gone too far. They have called the cops when sighting her, she was always gone when they got here. They tried to take out a restraining order against her to no avail. She has one against him and has sent him to jail over it once.

Its not the USA and the cops now laugh over it and don't even bother to respond usually. Every so often you hear them going at it.

So what do you do? It is frustrating as hell.

[Chimera]

Ultimately, you cannot save people who don't want to be saved.

[astro]

For some people it's a dance they consensually indulge in again and again, for other people it's an abusive shock. DianaG makes an important note that there is point where staying even after getting beaten or abused is a choice.

The weird thing is that if you actually watch these dynamics unfold in some (certainly not all) cases the nominally abused person is quite deliberately trying to get rise out of the abuser even though the result is going to be highly unpleasant as if the drama and attention that will ensue are worth the explosion. It's a weird and complex tango some people dance.

[elbows]

Its not the USA and the cops now laugh over it and don't even bother to respond usually.

If it's not the USA where is it?

That doesn't happen where I live, our cops have to respond, to every call, every time. And after they've responded a few times, without effect, someone is going to jail. And if the spouse doesn't want to press charges, the cops are empowered to do so. Either way, the cops are always coming and someone is getting cited for something. Seems to end serial domestic violence pretty quickly.

Very likely, as a result of the tightening of our domestic abuse laws and enforcement, we don't have much public 'consensual' violence. Which is why it's such an odd topic for someone, not understanding what exactly you mean, to understand.

So are you now implying that the situation you've witnessed with your wife's cousin enables you to recognize 'consensual' violence on sight? Or is your experience of it, just colouring your willingness to even pick up a phone and report anything that looks like it? I am still confused by what stand you are taking really.

I would never have guessed there were people taking offense at PSA's to report domestic violence when you see it!

[grude]

Originally Posted by elbows

If it's not the USA where is it?

That doesn't happen where I live, our cops have to respond, to every call, every time. And after they've responded a few times, without effect, someone is going to jail. And if the spouse doesn't want to press charges, the cops are empowered to do so. Either way, the cops are always coming and someone is getting cited for something. Seems to end serial domestic violence pretty quickly.

Very likely, as a result of the tightening of our domestic abuse laws and enforcement, we don't have much public 'consensual' violence. Which is why it's such an odd topic for someone, not understanding what exactly you mean, to understand.

So are you now implying that the situation you've witnessed with your wife's cousin enables you to recognize 'consensual' violence on sight? Or is your experience of it, just colouring your willingness to even pick up a phone and report anything that looks like it? I am still confused by what stand you are taking really.

I would never have guessed there were people taking offense at PSA's to report domestic violence when you see it!

Trinidad, and I never said I can recognize it on sight with strangers. The problem I had with the PSAs was they seemed simplistic was all.

Even with the harsher laws in the US I've seen plenty of similar couples there.

I'm not taking any stand.

[elbows]

I'm not taking any stand.

Thank you! This explains everything.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by astro

For some people it's a dance they consensually indulge in again and again, for other people it's an abusive shock. DianaG makes an important note that there is point where staying even after getting beaten or abused is a choice.

The weird thing is that if you actually watch these dynamics unfold in some (certainly not all) cases the nominally abused person is quite deliberately trying to get rise out of the abuser even though the result is going to be highly unpleasant as if the drama and attention that will ensue are worth the explosion. It's a weird and complex tango some people dance.

I wouldn't call either an "abuser" or "abused". I'd just call them a pair of assholes who like beating the crap out of each other all the time. One just happens to be bigger.

[elbows]

That Duggard girl was friendly with, the man and wife who abducted her, when she was found. She was a child, abducted, beaten, raped, imprisoned, for years and years it was ongoing. Constant abuse and oppression will shape you into something unrecognizable.

She was definitely dancing. That the abused knows the steps shouldn't lead people to assume they are a willing participant, I think.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by elbows

If it's not the USA where is it?

That doesn't happen where I live, our cops have to respond, to every call, every time. And after they've responded a few times, without effect, someone is going to jail. And if the spouse doesn't want to press charges, the cops are empowered to do so. Either way, the cops are always coming and someone is getting cited for something. Seems to end serial domestic violence pretty quickly.

Very likely, as a result of the tightening of our domestic abuse laws and enforcement, we don't have much public 'consensual' violence. Which is why it's such an odd topic for someone, not understanding what exactly you mean, to understand.

So are you now implying that the situation you've witnessed with your wife's cousin enables you to recognize 'consensual' violence on sight? Or is your experience of it, just colouring your willingness to even pick up a phone and report anything that looks like it? I am still confused by what stand you are taking really.

I would never have guessed there were people taking offense at PSA's to report domestic violence when you see it!

Yeah I'm not getting it either. Are you saying because in every case one person is not 100% the meek victim then everyone should ignore them and let the violence continue?

[Loach]

Originally Posted by astro

The weird thing is that if you actually watch these dynamics unfold in some (certainly not all) cases the nominally abused person is quite deliberately trying to get rise out of the abuser even though the result is going to be highly unpleasant as if the drama and attention that will ensue are worth the explosion. It's a weird and complex tango some people dance.

Unfortunately I have seen this quite a few times. Often fueled by alcohol.

[elbows]

My wild ass guess:

What she really meant to address was how simplistic the Anti Domestic Violence PSA's are, when things like 'consensual' violence are actually more complicated.

Which, of course, would have led to a very different discussion.

I think what she is calling 'consensual' violence, is really serial domestic abuse. It's not legal to beat on your spouse, even in Trinidad, I believe. Enforcement, of course, is a whole different kettle of fish, if there's an actual culture of not even responding at times.

But this kind of cultural change doesn't happen over night. PSA's are simplistic because the people they are targeting, with the message are simplistic.

At it's core though, enforcement has little opportunity, to make the required change in attitude, if they can't get people to report.

Ultimately, if you want to see things change, you have to start somewhere. Beginnings, by their very nature, tend to be simplistic.

[Ferret Herder]

What elbows has said, but this too:

Originally Posted by Loach

Unfortunately I have seen this quite a few times. Often fueled by alcohol.

I know a woman who was the physically-abusive one, and she and her husband were also alcoholics (with her also abusing other drugs, dunno about him). They would get into screaming arguments, often with him egging her on, and then she'd get physically violent. They each blamed the other for "starting it," and when told they had to start working on their relationship by getting rid of the alcohol in the house, would claim the other one would not allow getting rid of the booze. They stayed together for years before finally getting a divorce.

[DianaG]

Originally Posted by Chimera

It isn't that easy. I wish it was, and I used to think this way, but I found out otherwise.

It really kinda is. You're not with that woman anymore, right? So at some point you stopped consenting to be her punching bag. Good on you.