Did Romney go to the NAACP hoping to get booed

[Wesley Clark]

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/...ry?id=16753886

Romney usually comes across as saying whatever a crowd wants, was he intentionally going into the NAACP hoping to be booed to build his credibility among the conservative base or was this a sincere outreach?

Democrats tend to win the black vote about 85-90%. Obama won about 95% in 2008. So I doubt Romney was going to peel off many votes. But he came across as someone willing to say unpopular things (which is something he virtually never does), and he said them to a group who wouldn't vote for him anyway. So it is win/win. Come across as principled by pissing off people who aren't voting for you anyway.

It'd be like Obama going to a tea party rally and talking about how we have to run government responsibly and treat our fellow citizens well. He'd come across as less of a wimp by pissing off people who generally don't like him anyway.

[Marley23]

Probably not. I know everybody likes to consider the possibility that politicians are always playing a deeper game, but let's not dismiss the actual event. My guess is that Romney really thought he needed to appeal to black voters or at least felt he needed to look like he was trying to appeal to black voters. I think going to a highly publicized event and getting overwhelming boos is always going to be bad news for a presidential candidate. I don't think anyone who is involved with a presidential campaign would set up that kind of situation on purpose.

Originally Posted by Wesley Clark

Romney usually comes across as saying whatever a crowd wants

When in recent months has he said anything unpalatable to the far right? I think he got the message when he saw Rick Perry get booed during the primary debates, for example.

[BobLibDem]

It would be too cute by half if getting booed was deliberate. I don't think he was talking to people in the room, he wanted to show his base that he was willing to walk into the lions' den and tell those uppity blacks that they weren't going to be sponging off whitey anymore.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

I don't think he was talking to people in the room, he wanted to show his base that he was willing to walk into the lions' den and tell those uppity blacks that they weren't going to be sponging off whitey anymore.

I doubt that's the idea, but I guess at least one person agrees with you:

“I was shocked,” Mr. Braxton said. “Never, ever have I heard him say anything about how he would help the poor or underprivileged, let alone the black community. Maybe his view is that he could tell us what we want to hear, and we’re supposed to swallow it.”

[RandMcnally]

It's funny to compare this response as opposed to the one he got at the NAAWP, according to this reputable Onion article.

[CyclopticXander]

I don't think the point was to be booed, but they knew it was a distinct possibility. No campaign appearance is made without purpose though, and the purpose of this was about image, not genuine outreach to this particular community.

[magellan01]

I tend to agree with the OP. And I think it was a brilliant move on Romney's part. He had zero to lose. And he came off as a man of conviction who won't pander. It was probably the easiest speech he gave because of that. It's got to be liberating for any politician to just say "Fuck it. I'm just going to tell them what I think. If they don't like it, too bad." I think the boos actually helped him. Not to say that raucous applause wouldn't have been better, but that wasn't going to happen. And it makes the NAACP look just like the racist organization it is. This is a definite win for Romney. To people of all color he showed himself to have some backbone and not pander. To Blacks, maybe some of them will respect that, and taken in tandem with the degree that Obama hasn't delivered for the Black community, maybe even win some votes.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by magellan01

And I think it was a brilliant move on Romney's part.

Are you serious?

And he came off as a man of conviction who won't pander.

You can't mean this.

This is a definite win for Romney.

We're approaching comedy gold here, and this is almost enough to convince me you are kidding, but-

And it makes the NAACP look just like the racist organization it is.

How does it make them look racist? He said he'd eliminate Obamacare and be the best choice for black voters, and they booed him. They didn't boo him for being a white guy. They didn't boo John McCain when he ran against Obama. Why would you assume race has anything to do with it?

[Marley23]

Here's the Washington Post on the difference in the receptions McCain and Romney received from the NAACP. I don't think he wanted to get booed, but I'll grant that being respectful of Obama was probably not an option for Romney.

[Ulfreida]

Originally Posted by magellan01

I tend to agree with the OP. And I think it was a brilliant move on Romney's part. He had zero to lose. And he came off as a man of conviction who won't pander. It was probably the easiest speech he gave because of that. It's got to be liberating for any politician to just say "Fuck it. I'm just going to tell them what I think. If they don't like it, too bad." I think the boos actually helped him. Not to say that raucous applause wouldn't have been better, but that wasn't going to happen. And it makes the NAACP look just like the racist organization it is. This is a definite win for Romney. To people of all color he showed himself to have some backbone and not pander. To Blacks, maybe some of them will respect that, and taken in tandem with the degree that Obama hasn't delivered for the Black community, maybe even win some votes.

Sounds like he reached one demographic he was aiming for.

[Ludovic]

Originally Posted by Marley23

They didn't boo him for being a white guy.

They were saying "boo urns".

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Ludovic

They were saying "boo urns".

Burns might vote for Romney, but he would strongly disapprove of his anti-liquidating-the-poor policy.

[guizot]

Originally Posted by Marley23

Are you serious?. . .You can't mean this. . .
We're approaching comedy gold here, and this is almost enough to convince me you are kidding, but-

Romney is a craven panderer--but I think when he's in the moment of pandering, he actually buys into his own soapiness.

This, I believe, is his overarching problem with public speaking.

[John Mace]

Is it SOP for the GOP candidate to have an event like this? If so, then that's your answer.

[Esox Lucius]

Originally Posted by Wesley Clark

Romney usually comes across as saying whatever a crowd wants, was he intentionally going into the NAACP hoping to be booed to build his credibility among the conservative base or was this a sincere outreach?

The whole of Romney's message was that Obamacare will destroy jobs, and by getting rid of it, he will save those jobs, which is good for everyone including blacks. That's what he intended to say, but he was only able to get the first part out before he was stopped by the booing. Without being able to finish making his point, it only looked like he was being a dufus of some kind, not that he actually was (in this instance, anyway).

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by John Mace

Is it SOP for the GOP candidate to have an event like this?

It's typical for candidates to address the NAACP, yes. Obama and McCain did so in 2008, Romney did this year, and Biden will address them (I think) tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Esox Lucius

The whole of Romney's message was that Obamacare will destroy jobs, and by getting rid of it, he will save those jobs, which is good for everyone including blacks. That's what he intended to say, but he was only able to get the first part out before he was stopped by the booing.

He wasn't stopped. He continued speaking. He evidently diverged from his prepared remarks to address the subject of the booing, but they didn't shut him up.

[XT]

I saw part of the speech, and I don't think he was trying to get booed, though I'm fairly sure he expected too. I think he was sincerely trying to reach out, and there wasn't a lot of political gain for him in doing so (I saw a stat that blacks are, IIRC well over 90% in favor of Obama, and Romney is pulling 1 or 2% at best).

The trouble is, that he might be sincere but...damn, he comes across as a rich entitled white guy. Which is unsurprising, since that's what he is. But he owns that image and doesn't even attempt to change that image. I suppose that's a really good and honest thing for him to do but, really, it's going to be a slaughter in November unless the economy totally tanks. Hell, even then I just don't see how this guy has a chance.

-XT

[magellan01]

Originally Posted by Marley23

How does it make them look racist? He said he'd eliminate Obamacare and be the best choice for black voters, and they booed him. They didn't boo him for being a white guy. They didn't boo John McCain when he ran against Obama. Why would you assume race has anything to do with it?

They didn't vote for McCain, did they? Look, when it comes to voting, particularly with Obama, Blacks as a swath of the population are grossly racist. What percent voted for Obama again? Name another issue that gets 95%-plus of a demographic on anything. face it, most Blacks vote skin color. O'Reilly had a fun little thing where he had one of his acolytes go around and ask Black voters if they were going to vote for. When they said Obama he asked them why, listing things that Romney was for and Obama is against. Of course they said that they were going to vote for Obama for those oh-so-rational reasons. HA! Yeah, it was a few idiots, but I believe that most Blacks voted for Obama simply because he was Black. Can't say I even blame them four years ago. It was no small deal to have the first Black President (and I'm really glad that's behind us now as a hurdle), but now I only hope that those who aren't as clueless as the people in that fun little piece evaluate the job he's done.

And as racist as the Black population might be when it comes to voting, the NAACP is even worse..

And, yes, serious across the board. There was nothing to lose. And he used the event to his best advantage. Let them boo.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by magellan01

They didn't vote for McCain, did they? Look, when it comes to voting, particularly with Obama, Blacks as a swath of the population are grossly racist. What percent voted for Obama again? Name another issue that gets 95%-plus of a demographic on anything. face it, most Blacks vote skin color. O'Reilly had a fun little thing where he had one of his acolytes go around and ask Black voters if they were going to vote for. When they said Obama he asked them why, listing things that Romney was for and Obama is against. Of course they said that they were going to vote for Obama for those oh-so-rational reasons. HA! Yeah, it was a few idiots, but I believe that most Blacks voted for Obama simply because he was Black. Can't say I even blame them four years ago. It was no small deal to have the first Black President (and I'm really glad that's behind us now as a hurdle), but now I only hope that those who aren't as clueless as the people in that fun little piece evaluate the job he's done.

And as racist as the Black population might be when it comes to voting, the NAACP is even worse.

By that rationale, isn't the GOP also racist? How many votes and delegates did Mitt Romney get in the primaries compared to Herman Cain?

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by magellan01

They didn't vote for McCain, did they? Look, when it comes to voting, particularly with Obama, Blacks as a swath of the population are grossly racist.

How much more of the black vote, as a %, did Obama get vs Kerry?

[Esox Lucius]

Originally Posted by Marley23

He wasn't stopped. He continued speaking. He evidently diverged from his prepared remarks to address the subject of the booing, but they didn't shut him up.

Yes, I meant stopped as in halted. I could have been clearer, like this:

The whole of Romney's message was that Obamacare will destroy jobs, and by getting rid of it, he will save those jobs, which is good for everyone including blacks. That's what he intended to say, but he was only able to get the first part out before he was stopped by the booing. Without being able to finish making his point before the booing started, it only looked like he was being a dufus of some kind, not that he actually was (in this instance, anyway).

[RandMcnally]

Originally Posted by John Mace

How much more of the black vote, as a %, did Obama get vs Kerry?

Blacks voted for Gore and Kerry overwhelming, with 95 and 93 percent respectively.

I'm sure they're still racist though, as that could be the only reason why they wouldn't vote for the party that represents the South.

[foolsguinea]

Yeah, just like chicanos are racist for not supporting candidates who represent the Anglicization of the Southwest, and Irish Catholics are racist for not supporting Orangemen. That kind of racist.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by John Mace

How much more of the black vote, as a %, did Obama get vs Kerry?

In the 2000 presidential election Gore received 90% of the black vote.

In the 2004 presidential election Kerry received 88% of the black vote.

In the 2008 presidential election Obama received 95% of the black vote.

[tomndebb]

Originally Posted by Iggy

In the 2000 presidential election Gore received 90% of the black vote.

In the 2004 presidential election Kerry received 88% of the black vote.

In the 2008 presidential election Obama received 95% of the black vote.

Based on those numbers, it would appear that only 5% to 7% of black voters are racist and strident claims that "blacks are racist" are little more than displays of silly posturing.

[Ca3799]

I took one for the team and watched "The Five" on Fox yesterday to see how they treated Romney's address to the NAACP. They went on and on about how "brave" and "courageous" he was.

Brave and courageous for what, I'm not sure. For appearing?

Then Romney went to a Montana fundraiser that same evening of the NAACP speech and said "But I hope people understand this, your friends who like Obamacare, you remind them of this, if they want more stuff from government tell them to go vote for the other guy-more free stuff."

I wonder why he didn't say that at the NAACP speech? Now, that would have been brave!

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by tomndebb

Based on those numbers, it would appear that only 5% to 7% of black voters are racist and strident claims that "blacks are racist" are little more than displays of silly posturing.

Going back further I think the black vote went as low as about 83% Democratic in the Reagan era. It struck me that, consistently over several decades, blacks have voted very strongly for the Democrats. In several elections blacks even voted more Democratic than registered Democratic party members (if that makes any sense)!?

Now what I could not tell from the stats from that source is the raw numbers. I expect that Obama also benefitted from a bump in voter turn out from the black community. So I am not sure that you could simply subtract and come up with a 5%-7% number in any case.

I am sure some blacks voted for Obama simply because he is seen as black. I am equally sure that some white voters voted against Obama simply because he is seen as black. Biracial status be damned. I just think the color of a candidate's skin is a piss poor reason to vote for or against him.

[BobLibDem]

If he was trying to reach out, why did he deliver this line:

"I believe that if you understood who I truly am in my heart and if it were possible to fully communicate what I believe is in the real, enduring best interest of African-American families, you would vote for me for president."

Well, Mitt, what's stopping you? Why can't you communicate what's in the real, enduring best interest of African-American families? They came to hear just that. Could it be that you really weren't looking to solicit their votes? I doubt that he was, since Romney repeatedly endorses laws aimed at suppressing the black vote. Has he changed much since his college days, when he lamented other schools boycotting BYU athletics due to the racial discrimination policies of his church? You'd never know it from his speech. Instead, he appeared as the condescending but kindly white master, reminding the uppity ones how grateful they should be for his genteel nature.

Later, when talking to a friendlier, whiter crowd, he said that if you want "free stuff", vote for Obama. That's the real Mitt.

[not what you'd expect]

I believe he got just what he wanted when he got booed. He's so brave.

[BobLibDem]

It turns out he wasn't quite so brave as advertised. He brought in his own blacks to the NAACP meeting. So that's where the polite applause came from. That's who stood and applauded at the end of his speech. The only question is did he bring the field negroes or the house negroes?

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Iggy

Going back further I think the black vote went as low as about 83% Democratic in the Reagan era. It struck me that, consistently over several decades, blacks have voted very strongly for the Democrats. In several elections blacks even voted more Democratic than registered Democratic party members (if that makes any sense)!?

Now what I could not tell from the stats from that source is the raw numbers. I expect that Obama also benefitted from a bump in voter turn out from the black community. So I am not sure that you could simply subtract and come up with a 5%-7% number in any case.

I am sure some blacks voted for Obama simply because he is seen as black. I am equally sure that some white voters voted against Obama simply because he is seen as black. Biracial status be damned. I just think the color of a candidate's skin is a piss poor reason to vote for or against him.

But the thing is, people vote for the guy who is "like me" all the time, whether it's race, religion, gender, or simply state of residency. Think of how many people voted for Arnold in the CA governor election just because he was a famous movie star.

But I'm sure magellan will be back shortly to straighten us all out...

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by BobLibDem

It would be too cute by half if getting booed was deliberate. I don't think he was talking to people in the room, he wanted to show his base that he was willing to walk into the lions' den and tell those uppity blacks that they weren't going to be sponging off whitey anymore.

I predicted how it would go, and believed all along (and still do) something like the above.

[Anaamika]

"We need to replace Obamacare with something better". What, Romney? I'd really like to know. I don't think "obamacare" (and god do I hate calling it that; it's not just his creation) is the greatest thing in the world, but I haven't really heard anything out of your trap.

Oh yeah, and booing too.

[elbows]

I think y'all are over thinking this. Meant to get booed? I'm not seeing it that way. He's just used to a stupider crowd, who've already drunk the Koolaid, and lap up any nonsensical thing that he spews.

I agree with the assessment he has no chance in November.

[Iggy]

Originally Posted by John Mace

But the thing is, people vote for the guy who is "like me" all the time, whether it's race, religion, gender, or simply state of residency. Think of how many people voted for Arnold in the CA governor election just because he was a famous movie star. <snip>

they are famous Austrian-American bodybuilders too? (There, fixed. At least as corresponds to the "like me" idea)

(OK... don't hate me for screwing with your quote for fun.)

I do tend to think that a lot of people, be they white or black, tend to go with some very superficial observations to determine who is "like me."

In politics, "like me" should refer (ideally) to having ideas and supporting positions like me... not having skin skin color like me.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Frylock

I predicted how it would go, and believed all along (and still do) something like the above.

You guys suffer from the illusion that very many people pay as much attention to this sort of stuff as we do here.

[DigitalC]

Originally Posted by magellan01

They didn't vote for McCain, did they? Look, when it comes to voting, particularly with Obama, Blacks as a swath of the population are grossly racist. What percent voted for Obama again? Name another issue that gets 95%-plus of a demographic on anything. face it, most Blacks vote skin color. O'Reilly had a fun little thing where he had one of his acolytes go around and ask Black voters if they were going to vote for. When they said Obama he asked them why, listing things that Romney was for and Obama is against. Of course they said that they were going to vote for Obama for those oh-so-rational reasons. HA! Yeah, it was a few idiots, but I believe that most Blacks voted for Obama simply because he was Black. Can't say I even blame them four years ago. It was no small deal to have the first Black President (and I'm really glad that's behind us now as a hurdle), but now I only hope that those who aren't as clueless as the people in that fun little piece evaluate the job he's done.

And as racist as the Black population might be when it comes to voting, the NAACP is even worse..

And, yes, serious across the board. There was nothing to lose. And he used the event to his best advantage. Let them boo.

I'm sure the other side directly pandering to racists has absolutely nothing to do with blacks voting en masse for ALL democrat candidates, not just the black one.

[DigitalC]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

"We need to replace Obamacare with something better". What, Romney? I'd really like to know. I don't think "obamacare" (and god do I hate calling it that; it's not just his creation) is the greatest thing in the world, but I haven't really heard anything out of your trap.

Oh yeah, and booing too.

I'm 100% with Romney on that, we need something better like UHC.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by magellan01

They didn't vote for McCain, did they?

You said they were racist because they booed Romney, but they didn't boo McCain. Explain why the booing shows the NAACP is racist.

[Jas09]

Originally Posted by magellan01

They didn't vote for McCain, did they? Look, when it comes to voting, particularly with Obama, Blacks as a swath of the population are grossly racist. What percent voted for Obama again? Name another issue that gets 95%-plus of a demographic on anything.

Well, whites in Alabama voted for McCain at 88%. Are they racist? It was 88% in Mississippi too. White men were at 90%. 80% of Mormons voted for McCain - any guess what the rate will be this year?

Or is the dividing line between racist and not-racist between 88% and 95%. I suppose that's possible, but seems rather convenient.

[sachertorte]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

"We need to replace Obamacare with something better". What, Romney? I'd really like to know.

How about RonmeyCare?

[Frylock]

Originally Posted by John Mace

You guys suffer from the illusion that very many people pay as much attention to this sort of stuff as we do here.

I am fairly certain that candidates for the presidency are looking to create news images and soundbites that are striking and appealing to their constituency--and Romney being booed by black people after saying something derogatory about "Obamacare" is certainly an image and soundbite strking and appealing to his constituency.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Frylock

I am fairly certain that candidates for the presidency are looking to create news images and soundbites that are striking and appealing to their constituency

And they also want to appeal to more voters, not just the ones they already have. I don't think Romney achieved that when he was repeatedly booed by members of the biggest civil rights organization in the country.

[Procrustus]

Originally Posted by tomndebb

Based on those numbers, it would appear that only 5% to 7% of black voters are racist and strident claims that "blacks are racist" are little more than displays of silly posturing.

Obama was also a better candidate than Gore or Kerry. He got more black votes and more votes in general.

[Marley23]

Black voters have been voting for white candidates for generations and they've been voting overwhelmingly Democrat for decades, but when they prefer a black Democrat to a white Republican or don't like Mitt Romney's policies, they're racist. Somebody explain this to me, please.

[Onomatopoeia]

I don't know. I guess I'm with BobLibDem and Frylock on this one. It certainly seemed to me that Romney was signalling to the base of the Republican party. I believe he was counting on the negative reaction to the Obamacare comment.

Black people aren't going to vote for Romney anyway, and he knows it, so I can see a calculation to exploit their reaction to shore up the extreme element of his party's base who are not exactly in love with him.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Frylock

I am fairly certain that candidates for the presidency are looking to create news images and soundbites that are striking and appealing to their constituency--and Romney being booed by black people after saying something derogatory about "Obamacare" is certainly an image and soundbite strking and appealing to his constituency.

Right, because we'll be seeing this soundbite/image over and over again.

It's easy to get stuck in the 24-hour news cycle and think whatever the story du jour is matters so much more than it actually does.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by Onomatopoeia

Black people aren't going to vote for Romney anyway, so I can see a calculation to exploit their reaction to shore up the extreme element of his party's base who are not exactly in love with him?

He's been pandering to those voters for months. What difference does falling on his face in front of the NAACP make?

[Onomatopoeia]

Originally Posted by Marley23

He's been pandering to those voters for months. What difference does falling on his face in front of the NAACP make?

Because he wasn't just speaking to voters, but to the NAACP which, although past its prime and of much less significance to the average black person today than, say, 30 years ago, is still a symbol of black representation and identity to some, and a target of derision for an element of the Republican party with a growing voice. I can't tell you how many times I heard the word 'brave' to describe Romney and his comment about Obamacare since yesterday. It's not so much what he said that is striking chords, but that he said it to this specific audience.

I also don't agree that he fell on his face. As I said, I think it was calculated, and I think he achieved the expected results. He's campaigning for the hard right voter, who is not as enamored with Romney as he needs them to be. This helped him.

[Marley23]

If that were true, he'd be doing a great job of appealing to people who were already going to vote for him and continuing to alienate everybody else.