MAFIA: The Road to Canterbury - Game Thread

[storyteller0910]

Originally Posted by MHaye

Besides, when I said Storyteller doesn't like powers resolving instantly, I really meant that. There's a game in this group's history (Last Bastion on idlemafia.com) where Storyteller was killed out in the middle of one Day with little or no warning. He did not like it. He'd never put a role like that in one of his games, simply because he's been on the receiving end and had his fun ruined.

OOG: I wouldn't say my fun was ruined. I think that was my third-favorite game to play in ever, and one of the top two wasn't even really Mafia.

But I'm happy to say this publicly:

ALL actions resolve at Dusk or at Dawn, with no exception (I suppose a modkill for very egregious rule violation might be instantaneous, but I don't think we need to worry about that.

[Enderw24]

Unvote Mahaloth

Just because I don't want the Day ending with multiple votes and since no one else is voting for him it's pretty much irrelevant at this point.

[gnarlycharlie]

Originally Posted by Snickers

Wow, that's a crap vote. First off, both gnarlycharlie and MentalGuy are voting me for stale reasons

does old reasoning necessarily make my vote invalid?

Originally Posted by Snickers

I'm with Enderw24 - I don't agree with the reasoning behind pardon the lynch leader, if Visor has been recharged. It lessens accountability and gives scum a place to hide, and I don't like it. "I'm voting, but I don't really mean it" isn't a place a townie should be.

Vote gnarlycharlie

He pinged me earlier, and I haven't been able to shake it. And his claim seems
In his vote for me way back in D1, he mischaracterises me as thinking that investigations are only valuable if they reveal scum. I don't think that, and I never did. Neither did I think that late investigations don't suffer from the same issues as early ones. Look at post 105, my direct response to the first time he raises these questions. Either he's not reading or he's trying to build a shoddy case just before EOD without jumping on a wagon (a case that he hasn't bothered to update since).

i don't think i'm mischaracterizing what you said. an investigation result is good whether the result is scum or town. why discourage investigation at all?

[storyteller0910]

Dammit, I really told myself I wouldn't let this happen in this game. Sorry for the delay. Dusk momentarily.

[Suburban Plankton]

Anticipation...

[storyteller0910]

...Actually, not momentarily. I must attend to an administrative matter and will hold the official Dusk until I have. Expect Night Three to begin no later than 8AM Eastern tomorrow.

Management apologizes to all for the delay. In recompense for the inconvenience, everyone will be given a duck.

[Babale]

Perfect! Then, before we lynch anyone, we can weight them against the duck. Everyone knows that Scum are lighter than a duck!

[storyteller0910]

Day Three

The Day's deliberations were long... very long... extending well into the early evening in spite of the fact that a rough consensus had developed some hours before. It was almost as if some unseen force had misplaced a critical spreadsheet, needed to ensure that all events were properly tracked and announced. But that was silly superstition, surely.

Eventually, as the sky turned to full dark, they settled on a victim and led him to the noose. He went quickly, and quietly; he had always believed in the rule of law - yea, even over the rules of heaven - and he had no intention of betraying his belief at the last. Some believed that he would be saved by some last-minute intervention. It was only when his feet finally stopped kicking that they realized they were to be disappointed.

When the dust settled and the body had been properly buried, the 16 living pilgrims retired for the night.

And the rest, except for the ethereal sound of quacking, was silence.

----------

fubbleskag, The Man of Law, has been lynched. His power had been used.

Night Three begins now and will end on the late side of the 1-5 period on Saturday (probably right around 5).

Also, RyJae has joined the game in place of Alka Seltzer. Play nice.

[Stanislaus]

FFS. Sorry fubbles.

[Snickers]

Dammit.

[Snickers]

But at least we all have ducks. And RyJae, too - welcome!

[RyJae]

Hello townies I have been paying attention since the start, I was just a day late to volunteer to play. I love this game, even when it feels like you're banging your head against a brick wall.

Now I want my duck, in orange sauce please.

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by fubbleskag

Apologies in advance, on my phone again.

I am the man of law. Last night I investigated Stanislaus and was informed that he is not a member of the brotherhood unless the cloak was used.

I wanted to avoid overlap and thought it safest to investigate someone unlikely to have garnered too much attention. I chose him specifically from that list because I feel he is a strong mafia (the game) player and knowing his alignment held more weight than the other candidates.

Originally Posted by Stanislaus

vote fubbleskag

Originally Posted by Stanislaus

FFS. Sorry fubbles.

FFS indeed.
When fubbleskag role claimed, the result it came as no shock to me. At that point, you hadn't pinged me as scum.
But now...?
Fubbleskag targetted you, Stanislaus, and said you're not scum. He was the very first person in the game to make a role claim which has to be a huge risk if he's scum. Now you know with 100% certainty whether you're town or scum.
So let's assume you're town. Fubbleskag says you're town. You know Fubbleskag is correct which lends credence to his role claim. So then you turn around and lynch him? How does that make any sense?

I mean, you can argue that he used the Momento. Or you can argue that if he was scum he'd already know with certainty that you're Town and therefore wouldn't need to guess. But you used neither of those rationalizations when you voted for him.

So tell me, there wasn't a single other person in the game pinging your scum meter harder than the guy who first stepped up and said you were Town?

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by RyJae

Hello townies I have been paying attention since the start, I was just a day late to volunteer to play. I love this game, even when it feels like you're banging your head against a brick wall.

Now I want my duck, in orange sauce please.

Welcome to the game RyJae.
Have you had the opportunity to review the other board's postings to get caught up there?

[Stanislaus]

Admitting that I clearly screwed-up by letting last-minute self doubt get the better of me...

Originally Posted by Enderw24

Fubbleskag targetted you, Stanislaus, and said you're not scum. He was the very first person in the game to make a role claim which has to be a huge risk if he's scum. Now you know with 100% certainty whether you're town or scum.
So let's assume you're town. Fubbleskag says you're town. You know Fubbleskag is correct which lends credence to his role claim.

Why is it a risk to claim? (NB you're wrong - Mosier claimed first).
Why does fubbleskag knowing I'm town lend credence to his role claim? Do you not see how he would also know this if he is scum? Did you not read my first response to his claim, which included mention of how it didn't prove his allegiance? Did you not read his acknowledgement of this point in his reply?

[Stanislaus]

RyJae,

Welcome to the game! How did you feel when you discovered you were Scum?

[Inner Stickler]

???

Are we cracking jokes or did I miss something revealing in RyJae's post?

[MHaye]

It's a shame that fubbleskag died and came up Town, but that does give us some extra information.

In this game, there are two problems with believing an investigator's claim. One is that the investigator might be a lying member of the Brotherhood. The other is that the investigated player might be wearing the Cloak of Lies.

Since fubbleskag was Town, we can believe his report that he investigated Stanislaus, and that Stanislaus came up Town.

I will now reveal without further ado that the result of fubbleskag's investigation was not corrupted by the Cloak of Lies.

I am The Clerk of Oxford.

On Night 1 I asked Storyteller whether the Cloak of Lies had been selected by the Brotherhood.

He said no.

Originally Posted by storyteller0910

The Cloak of Lies is not in the game as of Night One.

I don't believe there is a way to corrupt my investigation (beyond removing my power before I use it). The conclusion I draw from this is that Stanislaus is Town.

[RyJae]

Other board? Ha I get it. I will be upfront in my PM to storyteller I told him I would be willing to fill in or be spoiled. And I gave my suspicions on who was scum. You know as a record for if I got spoiled I could use as a aha I knew it all along.

I was wrong on Alka, now me. I was in agreement with Texcats idea on who scum was. Which included me. Also in full disclosure I did not have any limitations on who I would fill in for, I really did think I was coming in as scum. But I got the PM and did a

OK, you're on. Here's your role PM:

Welcome to the game, you are The Physician[blockquote]In all the world, there is no doctor of medicine more skilled and accomplished than you. Unfortunately, this still means a lot of leeches and astrology – the country where penicillin will be invented hasn’t even been invented yet - but when one has the plague one takes what one can get. Unfortunately, your current journey is a pilgrimage, not a business trip; you’ve left the majority of your tools at home. You have room enough in your pack for exactly one item to carry with you on the trip to Canterbury; during Night Zero, you will choose which of the following two to bring along. Thereafter, you may use the item at your discretion.

(1) Emergency Kit: If you choose to bring along this item, once per game you will have the option to provide medical attention to any TWO players of your choice, protecting them from harm. Only poison (see Scum Tools) can circumvent this protection, though you yourself can always be blocked.

(2) Antivenom: If you administer this serum to any player, (s)he will be immune to death by poison (see Scum Tools). You may dose a player with this even after (s)he has already been poisoned, and if you do, the poison will not harm him or her.

NOTE: Whether you choose to bring along the antivenom or not, as long as you are alive you will see the signs at Dawn if any player is poisoned in the Night.[/blockquote]

--

Alka Seltzer chose item 1 (the emergency kit) and protected himself and Visorslash on Night One. You therefore have no power remaining. Have fun!

So anyway, I have to rethink my entire pre-entering scum line up.

[MHaye]

RyJae, welcome back.

(I now have Led Zeppelin running through my head.)

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by Stanislaus

Admitting that I clearly screwed-up by letting last-minute self doubt get the better of me...



Why is it a risk to claim? (NB you're wrong - Mosier claimed first).
Why does fubbleskag knowing I'm town lend credence to his role claim? Do you not see how he would also know this if he is scum? Did you not read my first response to his claim, which included mention of how it didn't prove his allegiance? Did you not read his acknowledgement of this point in his reply?

You are correct on all those things. Including Mosier whose I missed on my review because I was doing a keyword search of "role claim" and it didn't pop up.
I guess I'm just saying that it seems weird that, of all the people you could have voted for, you ended up choosing the guy who said you were town! Yes, I get that it's possible for scum to just as easily "investigate" because they know who's town already, but it just seems strange that he's the one guy out of them all who pinged your radar the hardest.


As a note to everyone, we're getting to the point where if we don't find legit scum by the next Day, we're heading for some serious trouble.

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by RyJae

Hello townies I have been paying attention since the start, I was just a day late to volunteer to play. I love this game, even when it feels like you're banging your head against a brick wall.

Now I want my duck, in orange sauce please.

Well this is your lucky day then...we have Duck with Orange, Duck with Cherries, and Duck Surprise!

[Suburban Plankton]

Originally Posted by MHaye

It's a shame that fubbleskag died and came up Town, but that does give us some extra information.

In this game, there are two problems with believing an investigator's claim. One is that the investigator might be a lying member of the Brotherhood. The other is that the investigated player might be wearing the Cloak of Lies.

Since fubbleskag was Town, we can believe his report that he investigated Stanislaus, and that Stanislaus came up Town.

I will now reveal without further ado that the result of fubbleskag's investigation was not corrupted by the Cloak of Lies.

I am The Clerk of Oxford.

On Night 1 I asked Storyteller whether the Cloak of Lies had been selected by the Brotherhood.

He said no.I don't believe there is a way to corrupt my investigation (beyond removing my power before I use it). The conclusion I draw from this is that Stanislaus is Town.

So let's work this out.

If you're Town:
The Cloak was not in play on Night 1. And I believe the only was the Scum can gain access to 'new' tools is by killing the Seraph, which hasn't happened, so the Cloak is still not in play. We do still have one Investigator who has not been heard from, so this means we can trust his results...assuming he's Town.

If you're Scum:
Then the Cloak could be in play, because you know there's no way for Town to be able to discover its existence. So Stanislaus could be Scum wearing the Cloak. Or...Stanislaus could be Town and the Cloak could be on someone else...or you could be Scum but telling the truth about the Cloak.

And either way, this tells us nothing about gnarlycharlie. He could be Town reporting a true (or false) result, or he could be Scum reporting the result he knows would be 'correct' under the circumstances.

I'm making no accusations here, just trying to work out whether or not this new knowledge actually tells us anything definitive, and if my reasoning is correct, it doesn't.

[Mosier]

Visorslash, can you please confirm whether you're still playing?

[RyJae]

I guess I will lay my thinking on one person in particular out. Gnarlycharlie I believed as an outsider looking in and still do that was a mistake way back in time. During the discussion about the cloak/investigations. Not just the possible slip up but this series of events.

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

can the three investigators (pun not intended) look into the ones who voted for Visorslash? there has to be scum there.

Followed by an admission that he used his investigation on a non-voter, to throw scum off? That to me was a bad townie move, you wanted the other investigators if town to get fucked? I believe it was Mhaye in my very first game years ago who prior to it starting I used as a help board, his advise was simple, if I am town, help town find scum don't hurt town. Not so much in those simplified words, but the jist is the same.



Combined with the

Originally Posted by gnarlycharlie

we may never know a good time to use it. *shrugs*

"it" is no where close to something I would have thought about as a multiple, as the investigations. I could have seen "we may never know a good time to use them" but just the way he put it screams oops. But I could have brushed this off as referring to himself and his investigation, if it wasn't for his meddling with investigators.


He is the only person caught in at least one less than honest approach. so I have a big ol' FOS on him. In summary, we have no investigations or knowledge other than the words we read, I think it is clear going by that gnarlycharlie is the only one I can in good faith look at with strong suspicions.

[gnarlycharlie]

Originally Posted by RyJae

I guess I will lay my thinking on one person in particular out. Gnarlycharlie I believed as an outsider looking in and still do that was a mistake way back in time. During the discussion about the cloak/investigations. Not just the possible slip up but this series of events.




Followed by an admission that he used his investigation on a non-voter, to throw scum off? That to me was a bad townie move, you wanted the other investigators if town to get fucked? I believe it was Mhaye in my very first game years ago who prior to it starting I used as a help board, his advise was simple, if I am town, help town find scum don't hurt town. Not so much in those simplified words, but the jist is the same.



Combined with the



"it" is no where close to something I would have thought about as a multiple, as the investigations. I could have seen "we may never know a good time to use them" but just the way he put it screams oops. But I could have brushed this off as referring to himself and his investigation, if it wasn't for his meddling with investigators.


He is the only person caught in at least one less than honest approach. so I have a big ol' FOS on him. In summary, we have no investigations or knowledge other than the words we read, I think it is clear going by that gnarlycharlie is the only one I can in good faith look at with strong suspicions.

i guess you come from the school of town should always be honest and forthright. i obviously don't. first, i had no idea whether the other two were scum or not. i also hoped to put pressure on scum by saying that. could they risk not protecting someone there? as i had secretly hoped another investigator would do as i did which was to investigate outside that group.

as for the "them" and "it" slip, i already admitted that Mhaye was right in his assessment that i was referring to my own investigation.


despite being wrong about me, allow me to welcome you to the game.

[Inner Stickler]

Is my calendar way off or are we overdue for Day 4?

[RyJae]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Is my calendar way off or are we overdue for Day 4?

I was wondering the very same.

[storyteller0910]

You are. Y'all, this game has been interesting from an administrative standpoint. I have another sub request and would strongly prefer to try to handle it before Day Four dawns, because I don't intend to allow subs after Night Three is over. Thus I am delaying the Dawn until I can find resolution.

Apologies!

[Astral Rejection]

If you can't find anyone else, I'd be willing to sub in to keep the game moving.

[Enderw24]

Enough subs. This game needs more Doms.

[storyteller0910]

AStral - I think I'll take you up on that. Dawn to come immediately following.

[Stanislaus]

Thanks Astral. The suspense has been killing me.

Or is that the Brotherhood?

DUN DUN DUN!

[storyteller0910]

Dawn, Day Four

The Night was cold and long. They had traveled some miles toward Canterbury, but many miles still remained and the grim and growing body count did little to soothe their overworked muscles and aching backs. Only one among them felt no fatigue – a man of duty, stubborn as a tree stump, he stood watch late into the Night and unto the Dawn.

And while he stood, some slept.

And while he stood, some crept from their tents, engaged in tasks nefarious or benign.

And while he stood, unimaginable evils stood by.

And while he stood – very near where he stood, in fact – a group of four gathered under the starlight. They whispered urgently, intently. One held in his hands an object, obscured from this chronicler, which glowed with an eerie blue light. Illuminating all of their faces. What did they discuss? What black-hearted plan unfolded in that strange blue light? Most importantly of all, who were they that gathered?

All of these answers and more the man of duty might have learned, had he for a moment lifted his helmet to listen and look – for the four had gathered no more than twenty feet from his post. But instead he stood.

He was still standing in the morning, leaning on his blade, barely slumped forward against the blade in his back. White petals were gathered around his feet.

He’d be standing still, but a funeral seemed appropriate.

Snickers, THE KNIGHT, has been slain. His power has been used.

-----

Day Four begins here. Astral Rejection will be subbing in for Tengu, who is unable to continue in the game. In order to maintain the integrity of the game, this will be the last substitution permitted; in the future, players unable to participate will be mod-killed.

Because Dawn was delayed, Day Four will be extended until Friday, July 21 between 1 and 5 PM EST. Have fun!

[Snickers]

Rah rah ree, kick 'em in the knee! Rah rah rass, kick 'em in .... the other knee!

Go town!

[Astral Rejection]

Hey, fellow travelers! While I have been following along with this game, I havent been reading close enough to post anything right now. I'd like to fully read the game from the start before weighing in. This will be a job for after work, as my comprehension tends to fail when I'm on my phone.

I'm a little curious: I always make my voting history charts for myself, but does anybody else find them useful? I like 'em but I can see how they might get annoying for some. I've never really asked what others thought before.

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by Astral Rejection

Hey, fellow travelers! While I have been following along with this game, I havent been reading close enough to post anything right now. I'd like to fully read the game from the start before weighing in. This will be a job for after work, as my comprehension tends to fail when I'm on my phone.

I'm a little curious: I always make my voting history charts for myself, but does anybody else find them useful? I like 'em but I can see how they might get annoying for some. I've never really asked what others thought before.

I'm fine with it. Information is information. If it's accurate, it can be useful. If people find them annoying...well, that's on them.

[Stanislaus]

Yes, if you're making them please share them.

[RyJae]

Though he has tried to explain himself, to some satisfactorily to me it is still the only black and white method of voting right now. We only have the words wrote, and gnarlycharlie your words have been deceptive on one occasion and a slight chance of a slip on another occasion. That leaves me little choice but to vote toward you.


vote gnarlycharlie


I also got this PM this morning.

Dawn Day Four
This morning, you observe in Mosier a few unmistakable signs: he is flushed and sweating, and his eyes seem glassy and distant.

Mosier has been poisoned with Asp's Venom.

Being that, I can now read a bit more onto Mosier and his suspicions/votes for and against with the assumption* that he is town.

*not 100% reading the rules I assume scum can poison scum, but would it be worth it for any reason?. Feel free to point out why it would be if I have a flaw.

[Mosier]

Can anyone else confirm whether they received a similar PM regarding me being poisoned? I was under the impression that we would only be informed of a poisoning if the doctor was alive, which I'm pretty sure he is dead.

If RyJae is the only person who claims to have seen a PM regarding the signs of poisoning, he has a lot of explaining to do...

[Inner Stickler]

So of the Miller, Canon, Man of Law, and Knight, which do you think is the doctor, given that RyJae has already claimed Physician.

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by Mosier

Can anyone else confirm whether they received a similar PM regarding me being poisoned? I was under the impression that we would only be informed of a poisoning if the doctor was alive, which I'm pretty sure he is dead.

If RyJae is the only person who claims to have seen a PM regarding the signs of poisoning, he has a lot of explaining to do...

The Physician is not dead.

We have four dead; Texcat the Miller, Sinjin the Vicar, fubbleskag the Man of Law and Snickers the Knight.

Alka Seltzer claimed Physician, but then subbed out and RyJae replaced hum. RyJae receiving this PM is perfectly compatible with previous claims.

Can you confirm that you were poisoned?

[Inner Stickler]

There is no Vicar role.

[Mosier]

Sorry, not sure where the confusion came from. I think the substitution threw me off.

I did indeed get a PM that I have been poisoned. I'm posting from my iPhone now, so I'll have a more substantial post later. If I remember correctly, the physician claimed he didn't pick the antidote. I don't think there's any other way to stop the poison, so I guess this is my last Day with you guys.

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by RyJae

not 100% reading the rules I assume scum can poison scum, but would it be worth it for any reason?. Feel free to point out why it would be if I have a flaw.

I assume that it's possible for scum to poison scum.

3. Asp's Venom: Administer this to a victim at Night, and (s)he will die at the end of the following Night

That said, I can't think of a possible reason for scum to poison scum. OK, fine, I can think of one. It would lull us into a security of trusting the poisonee, thus helping to influence the vote of the lynchee. But that's so convoluted with such a huge downside (losing scum!) I can't see it happening.


I think I'm at a point where I can really start to winnow people down, based upon role claims and such. But not today. Hopefully I'll have more time to put something together tomorrow.

[Inner Stickler]

Unknown
1. Mahaloth
2. Inner Stickler
3. Stanislaus
4. Babale
8. Suburban Plankton
9. MentalGuy
12. Tengu Astral Rejection
16. KellyCriterion
19. Hal Briston

Claimed
5. gnarlycharly - Friar
6. Alka Seltzer RyJae - Physician
11. Enderw24 - Nun's Priest
15. Mosier - Summoner
18. MHaye - Clerk

For All Intents and Purposes, Claimed
13. Visorslash - Pardoner

Dead
7. Texcat - Miller
10. sinjin - Canon
14. fubbleskag - Man of Law
17. Snickers - Knight



I can think of a few situations where scum would choose to poison another scum. However, none of them are applicable now.

[MHaye]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

There is no Vicar role.

You're correct; sinjin was the Canon. For some reason my list of the Quick and the Dead had Vicar against her name. Apologies, and please make the necessary changes.

[Astral Rejection]

Still working on catching up. I think I'm taking too many notes about things.

I'm gonna tackle this again tomorrow, and I'll have a substantial post ready to go at that point.

[Enderw24]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

Unknown
1. Mahaloth
2. Inner Stickler
3. Stanislaus
4. Babale
8. Suburban Plankton
9. MentalGuy
12. Tengu Astral Rejection
16. KellyCriterion
19. Hal Briston

Claimed
5. gnarlycharly - Friar
6. Alka Seltzer RyJae - Physician
11. Enderw24 - Nun's Priest
15. Mosier - Summoner
18. MHaye - Clerk

For All Intents and Purposes, Claimed
13. Visorslash - Pardoner

Dead
7. Texcat - Miller
10. sinjin - Canon
14. fubbleskag - Man of Law
17. Snickers - Knight

Thanks Inner Stickler. This is effectively the post I was going to compile today. So I'll take it a step further.

We now know that fubbleskag is town and that he determined Stanislaus is town. We also have a claim by MHaye that the cloak isn't in play. Now, whether MHaye is town or not is a separate question but I'm willing to believe MHaye 's claim, plus all the other evidence and say Stanislaus is town. If I'm wrong, then a lot of pieces were put into place to fool us so well done.

The evidence is also fairly convincing for RyJae and Mosier to be town. Visorslash is absolutely town. And you guys can determine how you like but I know I'm town so I'm putting myself on this list.

gnarlycharly is interesting in that he's only confirmed that which had already been confirmed at the time of his claim and is something he'd have known anyway were he Scum.

MHaye could go either way. I believe his claim but the knowledge it's based off of could be ascertained from being either Town or Scum, so it's hard to tell. What's interesting to me is that it took at least one full Day after investigations (possibly two, I haven't checked) before MHaye revealed the results of his power. So I have to ask: why wait so long? And given that you did, what was it about the situation that made you claim when you did?

So that's a good portion of what I'm thinking, based only upon role claims.
19 total players
4 dead, 15 living
5 that *I* am willing to call Town.
That leaves 4/10 remaining who are scum.

And 9 players who at Day 4 haven't role claimed.

[gnarlycharlie]

will have to reread now that my top suspect is dead.