How to deal with this backhanded compliment?

[choie]

The title is probably not a good description of this; in truth I'm not even sure I should feel irked by the comment at all. Maybe I'm being too sensitive.

Anyway. The issue in brief: a person with whom I've been sort of becoming internet friends with for the past few months (through message board interaction and email) asked me for some more info about myself, since though we've interacted for months, I'm usually doing the question-asking in our email exchanges. (I tend to become a virtual Barbara Walters with other people, preferring to deflect focus to others rather than on me.)

The friend--whom I'll call Chris to keep the gender neutral--already did know some of my background; where I'm from, religion (I don't remember how that came up... oh, I think at one point I mentioned it was Passover so I was visiting some relatives), what I do for a living, etc. But Chris was curious about other stuff, like whether I'm married, siblings, etc.

I gave some extra info, and just for fun as a shortcut, I directed Chris to my bio on a social media site for readers/writers, where my pic is. And now we come to this thread's raison d'etre:

Chris responded with (among other perfectly fine comments): "You're very pretty! Somehow I thought you'd look more Jewish. You know, with harder facial features." This was folllowed with a joke about another female Jewish friend, this one with a large nose, who dumped her boyfriend when he said she shouldn't get a nose ring because her nose was huge enough.

Now... I swear I'm not the type to see anti-semitism everywhere. And Chris is a nice person, and I don't think there was any insult intended.

Still, when I read that 1-2 punch of "You're very pretty! I thought you'd look more Jewish..." which can certainly be taken a couple of different ways, I felt a bit sick. And definitely disappointed in Chris.

In all likelihood I'll just quote the compliment part and respond with "Thank you," not including the rest of the quote. If I thought that an insult was intended I'd be more assertive, but I really don't. But part of me is irritated by the thought of letting it go. It doesn't help that Chris is from a country that doesn't have a stellar record on race/ethnic relations (I mean, even worse than the U.S.--well, only in the sense that their Legalized Bad Behavior ended much more recently than ours did). So Chris, who's about twenty years older than I, did grow up in an evironment where not only were there fewer Jewish folks around, but the general atmosphere was not particularly enlightened toward "Others."

I guess my questions are... first, is it reasonable to be offended by this remark or am I being oversensitive?

And second, what would you do in this situation? Let it go (as I will probably do) or say something?

Would it color your relationship with this person? I mean we are just barely beginning our friendship, and it is just over email, so it's not like I have to see Chris every day (or ever, for that matter). I like Chris as a person and it'd certainly be easy to avoid this or similar topics.

Nevertheless... I don't know. It feels wrong to me. And to be honest, if Chris had said this about, I dunno, Beyonce ("She's so pretty! I thought she'd look more black!" I'd almost certainly say something, even just a snarky joke, and Chris would probably say hastily "OH I didn't mean that! That came out wrong!" and we'd be over it.

So why do I feel unable to do the same thing for myself? Sigh.

[Sparky the Wonder Spirit]

It sounds to me like Chris is a bit clueless but probably not willfully offensive. If something similar gets said at another time, I'd probably bring it up.

[Trinopus]

I agree with what Sparky the Wonder Spirit said.

(I'm mostly posting just to say, wow, what a cool login name!)

[Tastes of Chocolate]

Originally Posted by choie

Would it color your relationship with this person? I mean we are just barely beginning our friendship, and it is just over email, so it's not like I have to see Chris every day (or ever, for that matter). I like Chris as a person and it'd certainly be easy to avoid this or similar topics.

Nevertheless... I don't know. It feels wrong to me. And to be honest, if Chris had said this about, I dunno, Beyonce ("She's so pretty! I thought she'd look more black!" I'd almost certainly say something, even just a snarky joke, and Chris would probably say hastily "OH I didn't mean that! That came out wrong!" and we'd be over it.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. If what I knew of Chris didn't jive with this comment, I'd chalk it up as something that wasn't completely thought out, and came out wrong.

Heck, if it just happened, send back that snarky joke. If the answer comes back "Doh, I'm an idiot. I didn't mean that", then you have your answer.

[PrettyVacant]

He told you you were very pretty. He should have stopped there. Any man with enough experience of women would know to stop right there.

Once he went for the context thing he might have been more ... diverse ('prettier than anyone I know'/whatever), and I guess he did have a small concern right at the back of his mind. But I also think email can be rubbish - you can't make judgments without seeing the expression, hearing the tone, experiening the conversational rappour. Plus, men can be a little clumsy.

But he did tell you you were very pretty.

[TriPolar]

It's offensive. Chris might be clueless, but it sounds like an ingrained pattern in his or her life. Chris thinks Jews are a different form of human being. I'd say something about it, but I'm like that.

[astro]

Honestly the whole thing seems a bit weird to me. You have an adult man from another country cracking schoolyard Jew-nose jokes and talking about hard "Jew features" to an American Jewish woman.

You're being very coy about the context of this relationship. It sounds like you expect something might happen but months into conversing you know little about each other.

Most normal men would not spend this kind of interactional effort on a casual, non-work related female email buddy unless they had some anticipation of an outcome. Is he simply an acquaintance, a buddy, a potential love interest? What are his expectations? What are yours?

The context matters re your response.

[Rachellelogram]

It implies (s)he doesn't find classically Jewish features attractive. Other than that, it seems like a minor case of foot-in-mouth syndrome at worst. It sounds like (s)he knew early on that you were Jewish, because you mentioned Passover. If (s)he was anti-Semitic, would (s)he have even kept talking to you?

My final answer: kinda dumb, but not a dealbreaker.

[Weedy]

I don't know if that comment was 'objectively' offensive (is there even such a thing?), but if you don't like Chris making those kinds of remarks, you have a perfect right to say so.

Originally Posted by choie

So why do I feel unable to do the same thing for myself? Sigh.

This seems pretty significant to me.

[Blackberry]

Originally Posted by choie

The friend--whom I'll call Chris to keep the gender neutral--

Why would you need to keep the gender neutral?

[sandra_nz]

Personally, I'd reply with something like:

> You're very pretty! I thought you'd look more Jewish...

Wow, I really don't know how to respond to that.

[Taomist]

Originally Posted by sandra_nz

Personally, I'd reply with something like:

> You're very pretty! I thought you'd look more Jewish...

Wow, I really don't know how to respond to that.

This. Clear this up NOW while it's easy, not after you've met already.

[Roland Orzabal]

Definitely crass, but I don't know about anti-Semitic. The first question that occurs to me is: what's your name? I don't expect you to post it, but I must admit that if I corresponded online with a guy named Itzhak Bernstein and then found out he looked like this, I'd be mildly surprised. Now, I certainly wouldn't say anything about it, but I can see where someone with less tact would be inclined to comment, and I wouldn't call them bigoted for it.

That said, sandra_nz's suggestion is probably the best way to deal with it. Chris' response to that will let you know pretty quickly where you stand.

[Tabby_Cat]

Might be cultural. I can see myself making that same mistake. Hell, I've even had my on thread shut down for talking about my own slitty slant eyes in the OP (I do have slitty eyes!).

Time to get with the stamping out ignorance thing. I'd give the benefit of the doubt.

[denquixote]

So if you are aware that he is likely to be unenlightened, enlighten him. I am certain that no offense was intended but that is pretty much irrelevant. You like him and you are wondering about him. Strangers could have a much worse reaction. You'd be doing him a favor, albeit one he may not appreciate.

[Cinnamon Imp]

Originally Posted by Blackberry

Why would you need to keep the gender neutral?

OP could be gay/bi and not sure how we'd react to that, and/or doesn't want this to derail into a discussion of sexuality.

Or is wondering if the people assuming Chris is a platonic friend will give very different answers to those assuming Chris is a potential love interest.

[Marconi & Schmeese]

I'd go ahead and say something. Otherwise it may eat at you and ultimately destroy the friendship. Nip it in the bud before it becomes awkward.

[Ferret Herder]

Yeah, I think sandra_nz's response is good.

[nashiitashii]

It's mildly offensive, but acting in a hostile manner to everything you find offensive is not going to win you friends.* Do your best to gently correct the assumption by stating that Jewish folks are tied together by belief and not by physical features per se. With the wide variety of different Jewish ethnicities (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, etc.), you're going to have a wide range of "what a Jew looks like". Where he's from, he may have only ever seen Ashkenazi Jews, and ones with stronger features at that; this is a point where you can educate, and getting angry with the person for their ignorance is not going to help them get past that ignorance. Ask the person a little more about their home country in return and see if you two can get back to a friendlier understanding of each other.

*I come from a much smaller ethnic minority and folks all have their own silly questions for me that are both inaccurate ("do you live in igloos?", "you don't look Icelandic"** or Mighty Ducks-related questions) or based on the only things they know about the country ("do you know/are you related to Björk?" or "Iceland is green and Greenland is ice?"). If I got more offended than the occasional eye-roll in response to some of these questions, I wouldn't have that many friends at this point.
**This one is closest to your experience, as the folks making this assumption confuse Icelanders for the stereotype of Swedes that they see on tv. Either that, or they've expected us to look like other top-of-the-world peoples like the Inuit.

[monstro]

I would be bothered by this too. It's clear that Chris not only thought you'd look differently, but that you'd look uglier.

Anti-Semitic or not, it indicates that this person isn't very socially intelligent and will likely say other crazy stuff.

[hogarth]

If someone said, "I'm not usually into Jewish girls physically, but for you I'd make an exception", I'd file that under Too Much Information rather than antisemitism.

[don't ask]

If it was me I'd just ask him one question, "Did you mean that to be as anti-semitic as it sounds?"

[olivesmarch4th]

I would give him the benefit of the doubt and let this one go, but I'd be super alert for anything offensive he might say in the future. I think only time will reveal his true character.

[tapu]

I'd be inclined to drop away from the exchange. Not because I think he's an evil anti-semitic person, but because who wants to be with someone whose base starts there. It'd be like raising a child, and I assume you're looking for an adult. I can't even imagine how a modern, educated, intuitive adult could be at that level.

[msmith537]

I have to agree with tapu. He sounds like someone who is so socially clueless that he isn't even aware his comments are racist/anti-semetic or otherwise offensive. I've met people like this before. It's great that they don't actually "hate" blacks, gays, jews or whoever we are talking about. But their language demonstrates a profound ignorance.

Originally Posted by nashiitashii

It's mildly offensive, but acting in a hostile manner to everything you find offensive is not going to win you friends.* Do your best to gently correct the assumption by stating that Jewish folks are tied together by belief and not by physical features per se. With the wide variety of different Jewish ethnicities (Ashkenazi, Sephardic, etc.), you're going to have a wide range of "what a Jew looks like". Where he's from, he may have only ever seen Ashkenazi Jews, and ones with stronger features at that; this is a point where you can educate, and getting angry with the person for their ignorance is not going to help them get past that ignorance. Ask the person a little more about their home country in return and see if you two can get back to a friendlier understanding of each other.

Or...it's much simpler to state "all Jews don't have big noses, Jethro."

[elbows]

I'd be cooling on this relationship a tad, if it were me.

I'm a very strong believer in, 'When people show you who they really are, it's your job to SEE!'

No, I wouldn't cut things off entirely. But I'd sure as hell step back to a ,'wait and see', position.

If it was me, I'd definitely comment. More along the 'Compliment or racial insult, who can tell?', line and see what shakes out. Maybe it was just a generational miswording of the, 'foot in mouth' variety. In which case, no harm, no foul. But I wouldn't be able to move forward until I'd satisfied myself that it was only that, and nothing more.

[The Second Stone]

"Thank you." That would be what I'd use in this instance because it broke so many social conventions but didn't appear to be intended to be mean.

Some back-handed compliments I laugh at and say "thank you for the back-handed compliment".

I suppose "Wow" might be a choice too.

[Blackberry]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon Imp

OP could be gay/bi and not sure how we'd react to that, and/or doesn't want this to derail into a discussion of sexuality.

Anyone who's been here for more than like an hour knows that people here don't care if someone is gay. I really don't get why people change "identifying" characteristics to the extent that they do sometimes.

[Spud]

I can not believe the number of anti-Semites posting to this thread... even the OP apparently.

Yes it is offensive, but not for the reason the OP stated. What he was trying to say is that she is "Very Pretty" instead of the "drop dead gorgeous" she would be if she looked "more Jewish."

Anyone who reads this otherwise is clearly applying their own bias to the perception of "looking Jewish."

[you with the face]

Unless you're seriously hard up in the friend department and/or Chris is brimming over with other qualities that are positive enough to outweigh this offensive blunder, I would just walk away.

[TriPolar]

Ok, a lot of differing opinions in this thread. I think someone pointed it out before, his reaction to what you say about this will reveal a lot. (I'm just going with it being a guy to make it easier to write). He may be clueless, unexposed to diversity in people, and not realize why what he is saying is offensive. So a little enlightenment may make all the difference in the world. He may also be set into a mindset of sub-categorizing human beings and he'll never see what's wrong with that, and maybe defend it, because "it's true, you know". He may be feeling you out to see if you really are Jewish, or not too Jewish, because that's not so bad. He may just change the way he communicates with you because "Jews get all bent out of shape if you talk about it". That's why I say something when things like this happen. I want to know what kind of person I'm talking too. Maybe he could benefit from talking to you, maybe you're just wasting your time.

And now for something (not) completely different.

An Jewish man takes a trip to Japan. While there he learns that there is a synagogue in Tokyo, so he gets in a taxi and goes to the address. It doesn't look like any synagogue he's ever seen, it's indistinquishable from the other structures around it. But then he notices a mezzuza on the door. So he knocks and a little Japanese man opens the door. The Jewish man says "Excuse me, is this the synagogue?" The Japanese man responds in accented English, "Yes it is." The man asks "Are you the rabbi?" The Japanese man says "Yes, I am the rabbi. Are you Jewish?" The man says that he is, then the Japanese rabbi says "That's funny, you don't look Jewish."

[BottledBlondJeanie]

Choie, where is Chris from? A big city, small town? Also, perhaps the two sentences were more unrelated in Chris's mind i.e., you hear the comment about Jewish features juxtaposed to the pretty comment, but Chris may have meant the statement about Jewish features apart from how pretty you are. It's still a dumb thing to say, but could be innocuous/unfamiliar with actual Jewish people.

[choie]

Me again. Thanks very much for the responses so far! You've really been very helpful and given me a lot of good choices.

Just to clear up two things on my end: in the light of day, I'm actually not sure why I went the gender-neutral route. I started just calling the person "Friend," and that became annoying (and I know how annoying it can sometimes be to read things or respond without having any names to refer to), so I started to come up with a fake name and then I thought eh, might as well help conceal the person's identity a little better in the very distant possibility s/he wanders into IMHO. I don't want this to be some kind of public shaming thing.

Second, this is platonic platonic platonic. No chance of it going further nor desire of it regardless of the comment. Just a friendship.

But it is interesting that there has been an assumption that a romantic relationship is the end goal of this contact, and a few people have stated flat out that a) Chris is a guy who b) is aiming for more but stuck his foot in his mouth yet c) at least he finds me pretty so that's something good (this from the amusingly named Pretty Vacant).

I don't think I implied a romance in the offing, but I bet by making the gender neutral comment I made it seem like I was being coy for that reason. Or maybe people just assume becoming friends and then "taking it to email" is some kind of code for 'wanted: email friend; objective: sexytimes'. No biggie either way, but it's intriguing that so many took it that way. I do wonder if the answers would be different if I'd flat-out stated this was a romantic or friend-based relationship. But then we're getting into Skald "what if" territory.

(In fact, if this were a romance in the offing, I probably wouldn't have asked you guys, because for me it would be a dealbreaker. It would feel like "oh you're hot, never thought I'd be into Jewish women" which is both ignorant and crass, and I'm not entering into a romantic relationship knowing the guy has to be taught what's ignorant and what isn't. A casual email friendship feels different.)

Let's see, to answer one of the questions: Does my name sound so Jewish that it might've given Chris expectations on what I'd look like? I don't think so. My first name is Kira, not stereotypically Jewish I don't think (my father actually thought he made it up, so it doesn't strictly come from anywhere; when I was growing up it was nearly unheard of here, but now it's a more common name). My last name isn't hugely stereotypically Jewish, it's not "Cohen," doesn't start with "Gold" or "Silver" and doesn't end in "-berg" '-stein' or '-witz', but on the other hand, I don't know anyone who has it who isn't Jewish, so I dunno. I don't think someone who's in Chris's country would necessarily associate it with Jewishness.

So I think it was just the Passover remark that made Chris remember my religion. But that was a very good question because if I'd been named, say, Donna Chang (as on Seinfeld) and turned out to have blond hair and blue eyes, I can see the comment being made "I thought you'd look Chinese!"

Actually if all that had been said was "Funny, I thought you'd look more Jewish" I'd be much less taken aback. I mean, I always do get taken aback by the whole "you do/don't look Jewish" thing, because where I grew up on Long Island there were so many Jewish folks with such different appearances that until I was in my teens and more aware of how the world saw Jewish people (both historically and currently) I wasn't aware there was a standard expected "look."

It's the combo platter of the phrases

1) You're so pretty!
2) I thought you'd look more Jewish
3) ... with harder features

That set my teeth on edge. I think it's #3 that bugs me most of all. It feels more like a judgment, though again, probably not intended that way. Harder sounds so unpleasant, y'know? For some reason, perhaps without any justification, I find myself making the leap from harder to ugly, calculating, unfriendly, bitter. All of which are typical stereotypes for Jewish women.

Weedy's highlighting of my inability to speak up for myself does make me think about that issue. Part of it, I think, is that I don't make friends easily (very shy IRL) so I don't like causing waves or acknowledging hurt feelings (even mild ones like this, heck this doesn't even rise to the level of 'hurt feelings') because I'm afraid to make people mad at me.

Some of my reticence in speaking up, I just realized, is also that I don't want to feed yet another stereotype, that of the "hyper-defensive Jewish person seeing antisemitism / insult where none is intended." That's why this poll and your responses help me get some outside perspective.

But as many people here have mentioned, it probably is something that deserves at least a "huh?!" or as sandra_nz put it neatly, "Wow, I don't know how to respond to that." (Which is literally true or I wouldn't have posted this thread!)

Or... what about this, if I want to go more jokey, maybe a Heh, I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this the way it sounds...? I'm thinking there's an implied "this sounds offensive" in there but also a "get out of jail free" card that says I'm happy to assume that the juxtoposition of the phrases in an offensive manner was probably unintentional.

If this person were American I'd also be quicker to judge and go "What the FUCK?" (mentally anyway). But as I said, Chris's country is about 30 years behind our own "separate water fountain" era, so I'm making allowances for someone who grew up in that environment to be more ignorant and unaware. Especially since I think the country is far more homogeneous than the U.S. is. Not in the top ten countries with Jewish populations, I'll put it that way (but not that far from it, either).

Thanks for the responses again, guys. You've helped me decide to say something, but fairly innocuous and non-confrontational to gently nudge Chris without getting all huffy.

[astro]

Free advice is worth what it costs you. Here's mine.

Adult heterosexual men do not typically spend a lot of time chatting women up at length via email on a casual, non-professional basis with the goal of just being "buddies". Some may, but it's not the way most men are wired.

Some men will play the long game to see something pans out. Good luck with your relationship, but I think your assumptions about his intentions are somewhat naive.

[choie]

Well... thanks, astro. But I'm curious:

1) Why are you assuming Chris is a guy? Or a heterosexual guy?
2) Even assuming #1 is true, how do you know I'm a heterosexual woman?
3) How does this relationship go farther than I think it will, particularly considering Chris is in a different country?
4) Even if you were right and Chris is a straight guy with secret designs on flying past the billion time zones between us so he can seduce one of them Exotic Jewesses about whom he's heard lauded in song and story (but not one of the hard-faced ones, thank heavens) -- all this despite my beliefs that this is a platonic relationship -- how does this relate to my original question?

No, seriously. I do appreciate the advice but, dropping the gender neutrality that's caused more trouble than it was worth (I don't think Chris goes into this forum anyway), Chris is a married woman; I'm also a hetero woman. This is totally platonic, for realsies.

[Diamonds02]

That sounded like a specific type of backhanded compliment...a "neg hit". A pick up tactic to make women feel slightly insecure, causing them to seek validation. Some women are put off by that, others are not, and might even respond with a neg hit directed to the guy.

[choie]

OMG. This is actually turning into a fascinating social experiment. I'm really curious why so many people assumed Chris is a guy. Maybe people don't expect women to call other women "pretty" out of the blue like that? I dunno, it just seems like a nice thing to say. (Or it would've been without the addendum, anyway.)

[Spud]

Originally Posted by choie

OMG. This is actually turning into a fascinating social experiment. I'm really curious why so many people assumed Chris is a guy. Maybe people don't expect women to call other women "pretty" out of the blue like that? I dunno, it just seems like a nice thing to say. (Or it would've been without the addendum, anyway.)

Not sure it is that profound. You left the gender up in the air, and it is awkward to type he/she, him/her. etc. The overall default is typically male (Him, he, his), and since you identified yourself as a woman and the majority of the population will assume a hetero relationship it seems even more normal.

I find it more interesting that most identify "looking Jewish" as a bad thing.

[choie]

Originally Posted by Spud

Not sure it is that profound. You left the gender up in the air, and it is awkward to type he/she, him/her. etc. The overall default is typically male (Him, he, his), and since you identified yourself as a woman and the majority of the population will assume a hetero relationship it seems even more normal.

Yeah, but the thing is, even if they do assume a hetero male, and even if they do think this hypothetical hetero male from across the ocean is inerested in me THAT way, what does that have to do with my original question? To the point where astro is calling me naive and warning me about Chris's real intentions and Diamonds 02 is doing likewise assuming that Chris wants me to feel so insecure that I'll give it up more easily to him. ...When he apparently shleps overseas to see me in this hypothetical Macchiavellian plot based on a single "Oh you're pretty."

I find it more interesting that most identify "looking Jewish" as a bad thing.

I think the issue is that Chris seems to think it's a bad thing -- that's the seeming implication of her comments: "Oh you're pretty! I thought you'd look more Jewish. You know, harder features."

The progression of Chris's thinking comes across as:

10 Oh, you're pretty.
20 This surprises me because I thought you'd look more Jewish.
30 Because Jewish women have harder features and are less pretty.
40 GOTO 10

[Spud]

I guess I'll concede point one and admit I hadn't thoroughly read all of the most recent posts. Although, if you put any weight on a post from Diamonds02 for being "normal" you need to read more.

I still say there is another interpretation of her (better?) comment.

You are very pretty! This is a good thing.

A whole separate thought... I thought you would look more Jewish based on my previous mental image. Could have been for whatever reason taller, shorter, darker, lighter, blonder, etc. None in and of themselves are a negative. She (see, I'm learning) is just stating her previous mental image.

You know harder features... just trying to describe her vague description of "more Jewish". Maybe it is the language, but I would imagine "harder" to be "chiseled." Maybe a pointed nose, somewhat sharp facial lines, well toned. I can think of a bunch of super models that would match that description. Not necessarily what I would relate to a typical "Jewish" look (if there is such a thing).

Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and you are offended because she said you aren't Jewish looking enough... "what am I... chopped liver?"

[choie]

Ha! I won't say which comment made me snort with laughter, but--- I'll just say yeah, I do read enough. Point taken.

Yours is definitely the kinder and more generous interpretation, and I don't think it's impossible (hence the poll, and also hence why I'm not getting my undies in a bundle over it and would rather point out, lightly, the hopefully unintentional but less kind possible interpretation).

I think the "hard" sent out warning bells because, and this might just be my experience, Jewish women (and men too) do sometimes get slapped with the stereotype of being single-minded, calculating, manipulative, and so on. So having "hard" features doesn't seem like a compliment, unless you're talking about someone's entire body ("hardbodied") being toned, and this is a head shot so the "toned" thing doesn't apply.

But anyway it's not like I'm going after this chick with a sharpened dreidl or anything, I'm just going to respond in a generally friendly way, but with a touch of playful snark. Even if it doesn't hit her with a clue brick, at least I'll feel better for saying something rather than wussing out as I usually do.

[Eliahna]

I met my ex online and at the start of our very first conversation he told me "I was born in Malaysia but I look like a normal person." I was taken aback, but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he'd misspoken when trying to say "I was born in Malaysia but I'm Caucasian" or "I was born in Malaysia but I'm not of Malaysian heritage".

In that respect, I made the right call. He wasn't racist, he was just hugely inept at explaining himself, especially in a written format. There are a thousand reasons I should have run screaming from that relationship, but racism wasn't one of them. Of course, one of the reasons I should have run was to avoid spending the better part of the next decade smoothing ruffled feathers whenever he misspoke.

Despite his faults, I do believe he was honestly horrified when people would point out how his words came across. I could see him saying "you're pretty" and "you don't look as Jewish as I thought" as two separate thoughts that occurred sequentially, and then digging the hole deeper as he tried to explain what he thought he needed to explain what Jewish looks were.

[aaelghat]

Here's the thing.... "Pretty" is a value statement, and the reality is everyone has a defined a set of characteristics that they think makes someone more or less "pretty". Nobody's view of what is pretty is right or wrong.

By the same token, different Nationalities do have stereotypical physical features. Most people would probably describe the stereotypical Arab as having olive skin, a wide nose, and curly hair.

Most people would describe the stereotypical Eskimo as having straight hair, a flatter face, and a relatively flat nose

The stereotypical Jewish female might be described as having an angular nose, defined cheek bones, and narrower face - "harder" features than what you'd find on the stereotypical Eskimo.

Those are the stereotypical characteristics - there's nothing wrong with a stereotype as long as you recognize it for what it is - a rough and imperfect way of describing a large group of people.

Now let's put two and two together. If I showed you pictures and asked you which was prettier, the stereotypical Arab, or Eskimo, or Asian, etc., you would probably have an opinion of who was prettier. There's nothing wrong with having a bias towards specific physical characteristics.

In a moment of honesty I think Chris may have been saying that she doesn't find the stereotypical Jewish features of well defined cheekbones, high nose, etc. that attractive. Now the question is whether you will hold that against her.

I wouldn't call you a bigot if you told me that you found the stereotypical Norwegian more attractive than the stereotypical Pacific Islander, and I don't think Chris' comment was bigoted or offensive either. It may have shown bad judgement, but she was just sharing with you what defines "pretty" for her.

[Spud]

I'm glad I could make you chuckle (that is my intent more times than not).

Here is what I got from a Google Image search on "Hard Features Woman Face."

http://www.google.com/imgres?num=10&...9,r:7,s:0,i:95

Not too ugly in MHO.