Sign of the Times: More Pianos are Being Dumped; too costly to maintain

[BrainGlutton]

Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir

You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

Sure you can. You just need to find Middle Sea.

[Jaledin]

Horseshit gaffa. I respect your experience, but we're not talking about interconnects and AC cables -- these are musical instruments. All I'm talking about is feel, sound, and how both those elements interact.

[Jaledin]

And more importantly there's an ad one to acoustic for convenience -- if I want to just jam on the Rhodes or the Hammond, tubes have to warm up. If just my little digital 88, I still have to flick on the powered monitor. There's something good and convenient about just going when it's all ready, and it is always ready if it's an acoustic.

Please note I'm saying there's *zero* advantage to "authentic" instruments from a sonic standpoint -- it's just for the convenience and comfort of the player. It's kind of nice, and it probably teaches people how to play with limitations inherent to beat-out-to-shit pianos.

[Eonwe]

Originally Posted by gaffa

When an "A" is played on a sampled piano, it is a recording of that "A" being played on the original piano. It is a "real piano", every bit as real as any other recording of that piano. It's not like they isolated the A string from the rest of the original instrument - all the rest of the piano is adding exactly what it adds any other time that key is struck.

What Le Ministre de l'au-delà is talking about, sympathetic resonance (which occurs when you strike a key while the sustain pedal is depressed, allowing the strings to all vibrate freely), is not something that can be effectively sampled. Which is why modern sample libraries/keyboards model the sympathetic resonance. Just want to clarify.

Originally Posted by Le Ministre de l'au-delà

A digital piano is a poor substitute for a real piano, and for certain music, just isn't up to the job. First off, there's no sympathetic resonance with a digital keyboard; all the sustain pedal does is extend the length of time that a note causes the speaker to vibrate. Playing an 'A' doesn't cause all the 'A' strings, plus the 'E's, 'C#'s, 'G's etc. in the harmonic series to resonate along.

Actually, they do that now. Not to argue that there isn't an effective difference between a great piano and a sample library, but just to point out that they do get quite close. Frankly, the biggest 'problems' in getting it right are in adjusting the velocity sensitivity (which most people don't bother to do, but which can be quite effective in coming closer to a 'real' experience) and in getting the feel of the sound radiating out from a giant wooden board in front of you. That one will probably remain out of reach for the 'digital' world.


But, at any rate, in this day and age a digital keyboard is going to be a much better choice for most casual players for reasons that are stated above. I started learning on a Yamaha digital piano (my parents bought me an ancient upright later in high school; not a great piano for classical because of how the action responds, but a sweet rocker), and I am very glad I had that instead of a small spinnet or poorly-kept upright. I've played on too many that have no key depth, no dynamic range, and can't stay in tune over more than a few octaves. I probably would have given up on the instrument had I started with one of those.

[gaffa]

I'm open to being convinced. Any particular piece of music that shows sympathetic resonance particularly well?

[BrainGlutton]

If you learn to play on an electronic piano, will you be able to play a mechanical piano as well as if you had learned on that? Does anybody know?

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

If you learn to play on an electronic piano, will you be able to play a mechanical piano as well as if you had learned on that? Does anybody know?

Well, learning how to "work" a tube amp is VERY different vs a digital amp, so I assume that the answer is yes - more nuance and idiosyncrasy.

[Broomstick]

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

If you learn to play on an electronic piano, will you be able to play a mechanical piano as well as if you had learned on that? Does anybody know?

If it's an actual electric piano, meaning 88 keys, velocity, pedals, sustain/decay, and otherwise an emulation of a piano and not just a 32 key electric keyboard that may or may not have the say size keys as a piano.... up to a certain point, yes. For casual playing it probably makes no difference. For professional concert pianist not so much.

[Misnomer]

For all of the "acoustic pianos are for people with money" types: brand new pianos can often be rented for $80-100 month. A decent digital keyboard will run probably around $1200, which is equal to a year of renting the "real thing": that's enough time to tell whether your kids will keep at it, and whether you want an actual piano in your house or whether a digital keyboard will suffice. Yes, you will need to pay to have the rented piano tuned, but that should only be required twice a year -- and a standard tuning only runs ~$150.

In short, in most places money is not an excuse for not having a real piano in your house.

Originally Posted by BrainGlutton

If you learn to play on an electronic piano, will you be able to play a mechanical piano as well as if you had learned on that? Does anybody know?

To expand on what Broomstick said: I learned to play on acoustic pianos, but in the fall of 1998 I bought a Kurzweil PC88 digital keyboard: 88 full-size weighted keys, sustain pedal, really nice sampling, etc. Basically I went into the store and said, "I want the closest thing to an acoustic piano that I can afford." I think it cost around $1600 new. That's all I played between then and March of this year: I started renting a Yamaha upright, and discovered that I'd lost much of my dynamics. The feel of the acoustic piano is only a little different, but it's enough that I'm still working on getting my dynamics and expression back. And I am not a concert pianist by any means: I've been playing the piano since I was 7 years old, but am an intermediate player at best.

That kind of difference might not matter to some/most people, but IMO the simple answer to your question is "no."

[Malthus]

Originally Posted by Misnomer

For all of the "acoustic pianos are for people with money" types: brand new pianos can often be rented for $80-100 month. A decent digital keyboard will run probably around $1200, which is equal to a year of renting the "real thing": that's enough time to tell whether your kids will keep at it, and whether you want an actual piano in your house or whether a digital keyboard will suffice. Yes, you will need to pay to have the rented piano tuned, but that should only be required twice a year -- and a standard tuning only runs ~$150.

In short, in most places money is not an excuse for not having a real piano in your house.

Money isn't the main consideration; as I understand OK second-hand pianos can be had for little. Convenience is.

The difference is between an instrument that requires much effort by several adults to even move out of a room, and one that a kid could carry; between one that takes up a resonable floorspace permanently and one that can be put away; and between one that requires regular maintenace by specialists and one that doesn't.

For most families, this is a major consideration, particularly as most who are not music specialists can't really tell the difference in sound quality, and it is no wonder that acoustics are losing ground for them.

[Voyager]

Here is one way to dispose of a piano. I was there for the very first one, and it is still going on 40 years later as a tradition.

We all do our part. BTW, there is a similar problem with horses, in that people who can't afford their horses have no place to get rid of them any more. Worse, because you can't put a cover over a horse and let it stand in the corner.

[allyn]

Another use for acoustic pianos http://www.streetpianos.com/