What does it feel like after being lobotimized?

[grude]

I mean from the perspective of the patient? What would it feel like to live life after being lobotimized?

[Senegoid]

I've seen occasional news articles about lobotomized people. It just might be possible to google up some of those.

Turns out, traumatic brain injury to the frontal portion of the brain (e.g., due to a head-on car crash) can sometimes produce a similar result. You might be able to find articles like that.

[Senegoid]

Here's a start: Go google for Howard Dully, and read his life's story.

He was lobotomized at age 12 for chronic bad behavior, and spent much of his life trying to learn all about it. He wrote a memoir I think, and there are interviews with him you can read about.

[grude]

I was going to mention much of what is out there is contradictory, even on the wiki page. One physician of the time will claim it makes people less anxious and more outgoing, someone else says it turns insane people into idiots. Even blubs of survivors range from staring at blank walls and drooling to basically normal life. I was wondering what the average outcome was.

Thanks for the Howard Dully memoir tip!

[clairobscur]

Since they randomly destroyed brain tissue and since the brain has some plasticity, I don't find particularly surprising that the result was highly variable.

[Rhythmdvl]

It also depends on the care you receive afterwards. For example, if your principle caretaker is a Native American, it can be quite smothering. If, on the other hand, you've got a very good support network, even down to truck drivers and a freelance maintenance engineer, it can be (internally) extremely delightful and almost euphoric.

[Vicullum]

Probably one of the more famous persons to be lobotomized is Rosemary Kennedy. Before the operation, she was described as being "mildly retarded" and prone to outbursts, but otherwise happy and easygoing. But afterward:

“She had regressed into an infant like state,” Leamer wrote, “mumbling a few words, sitting for hours staring at the walls, only traces left of the young woman she had been, still with flashes of rage. This was a horror beyond horror, an unthinkable, unspeakable disaster."

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl

It also depends on the care you receive afterwards. For example, if your principle caretaker is a Native American, it can be quite smothering. If, on the other hand, you've got a very good support network, even down to truck drivers and a freelance maintenance engineer, it can be (internally) extremely delightful and almost euphoric.

Is this a reference to something I'm not getting? Otherwise, I don't understand this post.

[BubbaDog]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

Is this a reference to something I'm not getting? Otherwise, I don't understand this post.

Reference to the book/movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Next".

One of the principle characters, a mental patient, was a large muscular native American.

SPOILER:

He smothered the main character out of pity after the main character had a lobotomy

[TruCelt]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

Is this a reference to something I'm not getting? Otherwise, I don't understand this post.

The first is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's NEst" but I'm not catching the second reference.

[Rhythmdvl]

Also, Brazil.


Remember, we're all in this together.

[BubbaDog]

Originally Posted by TruCelt

The first is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's NEst" but I'm not catching the second reference.

Same here. I got nothing on the second part.

[TriPolar]

I didn't know Francis Farmer had truck drivers and a maintenance engineer.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

Thanks- that helps. I should have thought of Cukoo's Nest!

[Fubaya]

Originally Posted by Senegoid

Here's a start: Go google for Howard Dully, and read his life's story.

He was lobotomized at age 12 for chronic bad behavior, and spent much of his life trying to learn all about it. He wrote a memoir I think, and there are interviews with him you can read about.

There was a TV show about lobotomy that featured him too. I believe it was an hour long show on Discovery or other "science" type channel.

[Rhythmdvl]

Originally Posted by Fubaya

There was a TV show about lobotomy that featured him too. I believe it was an hour long show on Discovery or other "science" type channel.

Interesting use of scare quotes there. Almost subliminally suggesting that Discovery, TLC (The Learning Channel), A&E (Arts & Entertainment), History, History International, etc. serve as an example. At one point, they were vibrant, dynamic channels with a large range and limitless potential.

Now, they've been lobotomized.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl

Interesting use of scare quotes there. Almost subliminally suggesting that Discovery, TLC (The Learning Channel), A&E (Arts & Entertainment), History, History International, etc. serve as an example. At one point, they were vibrant, dynamic channels with a large range and limitless potential.

Now, they've been lobotomized.

Yep. And don't forget the National Geographic Channel. All they show now is crap. (With a few good documentaries now and then.)

[Fubaya]

Originally Posted by Rhythmdvl

Interesting use of scare quotes there. Almost subliminally suggesting that Discovery, TLC (The Learning Channel), A&E (Arts & Entertainment), History, History International, etc. serve as an example. At one point, they were vibrant, dynamic channels with a large range and limitless potential.

Now, they've been lobotomized.

Sorry, I didn't mean to subliminally suggest all those things, I meant to say them outright but didn't have time. I can't decide between 5 straight hours of "Say Yes To The Dress" or 5 straight hours of UFO shows tonight.

I started looking and that lobotomy program may have actually been this one on PBS, which does have science programming without the quotation marks.

[Lanzy]

/* Thread shit

Probably like most republicans

Thread Shit/*

[TruCelt]

Howard Dully reading the intro to his book. Fascinatng. Terrifying.

[skdo23]

Originally Posted by grude

I mean from the perspective of the patient? What would it feel like to live life after being lobotimized?

You will suffer from serious cognitive deficiencies and display obvious signs of paranoia but, even worse, you will lack the self awareness to even realize it and will also suffer from extreme self delusion. For example, in one study a lobotomized patient was unable to name the title of even one magazine that she reads and would ramble on incoherently about "hopey changey stuff" and use nonsensical words such as "refudiate," but would refuse to come to terms with her limitations, instead blaming the "lamestream media". Yet, despite being the laughingstock of the entire Western Hemisphere, she went on to humiliate herself even further by starring in her own reality show and, for a while, even thought she was a credible candidate for POTUS in 2012.

Sorry mods, I couldn't resist.

[Cub Mistress]

Originally Posted by TruCelt

Howard Dully reading the intro to his book. Fascinatng. Terrifying.

Wow. thanks for the link.

When I was a child, my parents knew a man who defected to the Soviet Union with his family. Once in the Soviet Union, he handed over what secrets/classified info he had managed to steal from the US military and was granted permanent resident status. At some point he was lobotomized, probably for schizophrenia, and died some time later. His family eventually was repatriated to the US and we kept touch with them off and on for a while. I've always wanted to investigate this story more fully. I remember the widow showing us a picture of her husband after the lobotomy looking very blank, and can still hear her say "He was never himself anymore after that."

[Full Tilt Boogie]

What does it feel like after being lobotimized?

I strongly suspect that no one who's undergone the operation is in a position to articulate its affect.

What a bizarre question.

[samclem]

Originally Posted by skdo23

You will suffer from serious cognitive deficiencies and display obvious signs of paranoia but, even worse, you will lack the self awareness to even realize it and will also suffer from extreme self delusion. For example, in one study a lobotomized patient was unable to name the title of even one magazine that she reads and would ramble on incoherently about "hopey changey stuff" and use nonsensical words such as "refudiate," but would refuse to come to terms with her limitations, instead blaming the "lamestream media". Yet, despite being the laughingstock of the entire Western Hemisphere, she went on to humiliate herself even further by starring in her own reality show and, for a while, even thought she was a credible candidate for POTUS in 2012.

Sorry mods, I couldn't resist.

Well, you could have but chose not to.

OFFICAL WARNING.

Political jabs aren't welcome in GQ. Don't do this again,

samclem, Moderator.

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by Full Tilt Boogie

I strongly suspect that no one who's undergone the operation is in a position to articulate its affect.

What a bizarre question.

Well, as noted already, the known results have been all over the range of possibilities, from mild cognitive impairment to total zombie. Those with some lesser degree of zombieness could tell their tale or write their memoirs, as Dully has. Others have too, I think. The more severely zomboid ones, not so much. Wonder what THAT feels like?

Same questions, of course, for stroke victims in general, or other brain injuries or degenerative diseases.

My speculation: If I'm ever in such a state that I am mentally unable to formulate a choice whether I want to be kept alive, or physically unable to communicate such a choice, with little prospect for any significant improvement, then my choice would be to Pull The Plug!

[Cub Mistress]

Originally Posted by Senegoid

Well, as noted already, the known results have been all over the range of possibilities, from mild cognitive impairment to total zombie. Those with some lesser degree of zombieness could tell their tale or write their memoirs, as Dully has. Others have too, I think. The more severely zomboid ones, not so much. Wonder what THAT feels like?

Same questions, of course, for stroke victims in general, or other brain injuries or degenerative diseases.

My speculation: If I'm ever in such a state that I am mentally unable to formulate a choice whether I want to be kept alive, or physically unable to communicate such a choice, with little prospect for any significant improvement, then my choice would be to Pull The Plug!

If this is what you want please complete some form of advance directive this link is to a State of TN sitebut has good information for all. Google your own state and advance directives for more specific information. Talk to your immediate family members and make sure everyone understands what you want, and get your PCP to sign it.

[JustinC]

If you can find it PBS did a documentary on Walter Freeman, which I believe has interviews with many of his former victims/patients.

[Colibri]

Originally Posted by Lanzy

/* Thread shit

Probably like most republicans

Thread Shit/*

[Moderator Warning]

Since you obviously know this is against the rules, this is an official warning for a political jab in GQ. Do not do this again.

Colibri
General Questions Moderator

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by Cub Mistress

If this is what you want please complete some form of advance directive this link is to a State of TN sitebut has good information for all. Google your own state and advance directives for more specific information. Talk to your immediate family members and make sure everyone understands what you want, and get your PCP to sign it.

I have an AHCD, but I'm not really satisfied with it. It's a standard-issue form with several pages of simple questions with multiple-choice checkbox answers or short fill-in-the-blank answers. I think it's too superficial and perfunctory.

I want to write an AHCD in some kind of essay form, where I could write things like I wrote above.

My speculation: If I'm ever in such a state that I am mentally unable to formulate a choice whether I want to be kept alive, or physically unable to communicate such a choice, with little prospect for any significant improvement, then my choice would be to Pull The Plug!

and maybe more, along lines like that. I think that's legal and valid in California. But I'm not so confident that anybody would actually, like, read the thing.

My bigger fear is that, without friends or family or kinfolk or money, I won't be able to afford decent treatment (palliative or otherwise) and there won't be anybody there to pull for me and keep on my case, other than some overworked and underpaid social worker who will spend 15 minutes a year on my case, and leave me on deposit at the first Medi-Medi nursing home in her Rolodex that has an available bed. Without someone pulling for me personally, I just don't have any confidence that any doctors, nurses, hospitals, insurance companies, or anybody will honor and maybe not even pay any attention to my AHCD, or that I will get any other kind of adequate care either.

ETA: Sorry, I guess this is drifting rather far afield from grude's OP.

[Rhythmdvl]

Originally Posted by Fubaya

Sorry, I didn't mean to subliminally suggest all those things, I meant to say them outright but didn't have time. I can't decide between 5 straight hours of "Say Yes To The Dress" or 5 straight hours of UFO shows tonight.

FTFY:
Sorry, I didn't mean to subliminally suggest all those things, I meant to say them outright but didn't have time. I can't decide between 5 straight hours of "Say Yes To The Dress" or 5 straight hours of UFO shows tonight.

[I Love Me, Vol. I]

What does it feel like after being lobotimized?


Dunno, but I'm pretty damn sure "I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me".

[Senegoid]

Originally Posted by I Love Me, Vol. I

Dunno, but I'm pretty damn sure "I'd rather have a bottle-in-front-of-me".

The more complete joke was:
I'd rather have a free bottle in front o' me than a pre-frontal lobotomy.

[szabrocki]

They tell me that I am feeling much better now.

[HoneyBadgerDC]

When I was a kid they were still performing this surgery. One kid I knew was deaf and had fits of rage sometimes so they performed the surgery to calm him down. He still had fits of rage but were much less frequent but many times more violent when they did occur. My general impression of him was that he was mildly retarded.
Another boy I knew had stabbed his sister, they performed the surgery on him also, we never saw him again.

[coremelt]

Is the second part of rhythm devils post referring to zen and the art of motorcycle maintainance?

[Sister Vigilante]

Originally Posted by Full Tilt Boogie

I strongly suspect that no one who's undergone the operation is in a position to articulate its affect.

What a bizarre question.

Unless you have been actually reading the thread.

[TruCelt]

Originally Posted by coremelt

Is the second part of rhythm devils post referring to zen and the art of motorcycle maintainance?

He already told us: It's Brasil.