3 D Printing - This is mind blowing technology! - Must watch video!

[astro]

I had no idea this technology was out there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aghzpO_UZE

[cmyk]

Oh yeh, this has been out there for years. Myself, as well as some friends, have used 3D printing services to have our models (designed in CG packages like Maya, Cinema4D, 3D Studio Max, etc.) printed in a resin material, which you can then sand down and paint, or assemble to create characters or prototypes or whatever.

[Revtim]

you might enjoy browsing Shapeways

[Michael63129]

Whenever this comes up, I wonder how long it will be until you can print highly complex systems, like a computer, which has hundreds of different materials, although it would have to be able to print down to individual atoms/molecules for this to work. Even better if you could just put waste into a hopper and it disassembles it to get the required elements, making it the ultimate recycling machine (the dissembling could also be used separately).

[Johnny Bravo]

Originally Posted by Michael63129

Whenever this comes up, I wonder how long it will be until you can print highly complex systems, like a computer, which has hundreds of different materials, although it would have to be able to print down to individual atoms/molecules for this to work

I recently read about a guy who has created a working automatic rifle, including printed bullets. Apparently it doesn't shoot properly all of the time, but that's probably a matter of refining the design.

[Miller]

You just heard about this? They've been using this tech for years now to do stuff as mundane as printing out a figurine of your World of Warcraft character.

Also, is it just me, or does the dude with the wrench in that video totally sound like Al Franken?

[astro]

Originally Posted by Miller

You just heard about this? They've been using this tech for years now to do stuff as mundane as printing out a figurine of your World of Warcraft character.

Also, is it just me, or does the dude with the wrench in that video totally sound like Al Franken?

I thought it was still in the make a solid plastic object stage like a doll or something.
How the hell they can scan and "print" a working wrench all in one piece with moving parts is beyond me. There are separate 4 pieces to an standard adjustable wrench like the ione they are copying..

I don't see how you can make a wrench all at once with the parts being separated from each other. I would think you'd have to scan and make the parts individually then put them together for them to work.

[Sudden Kestrel]

I swear I just read a headline that someone had created an exoskeleton for a disabled child using a 3D printer, but damned if I can remember where I read it. Ah, here we go.

I think this technology is much more important than we know ATM. My husband thinks I'm insane.

[Strainger]

My company actually sells 3D printers, including the exact brand used to print that girl's exoskeleton in fact. The 3D printers, as a relatively affordable technology, came out in 2004 or thereabouts, but we've been doing rapid prototyping/additive manufacturing since the company was founded in 1994. These include stereolithography, selective laser sintering, and fused deposition modeling, from which 3D printing is derived.

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by cmyk

Oh yeh, this has been out there for years.

It does seem to be getting more common and much more sophisticated though, instead of just being a "isn't that cool" curiosity.

[AaronX]

I think printing living hinges, springs and even clothes is also fascinating. If you follow Shapeways they'll update you on the latest technologies and materials (they had rubber for a time, I think they still do color sandstone). I'd try my hand at 3D printing, but Shapeways is too far away and the delivery costs are too high.

Also - didn't 3D printing use to use a liquid precursor and laser-curing system? I saw that on TV many many years ago. Now they seem to use powders.

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by AaronX

Also - didn't 3D printing use to use a liquid precursor and laser-curing system? I saw that on TV many many years ago. Now they seem to use powders.

They use all sorts of things. There's even fairly successful research into 3D printing of living tissue. Bone, skin, organs, etc.

[Enkel]

So, if you're interest in 3D creations, apparently here is the self-publishing / amazon.com site for creating, selling and buying 3D objects: http://www.ponoko.com/

I'd love to get a home 3D printer kit, but so far they seem to be only able to make SMALL stuff. Once they hit the ability to make something 18x18, I'd love to get one to play with.

[AndrewL]

Originally Posted by AaronX

Also - didn't 3D printing use to use a liquid precursor and laser-curing system? I saw that on TV many many years ago. Now they seem to use powders.

The photo-polymer UV-cured resin system is still used. It's fairly expensive, however, since the specialty resin isn't cheap, but gives better fine-scale resolution than other systems.

The powder-based 3D printers are cheaper and can use a wider variety of materials, since they're basically gluing together grains to make the desired shape. Usually they need an after-coat of glue to bond everything for proper strength once done. The big advantage of these is that the print head that sprays the binding agent onto the powder can also deposit ink at the same time, so you can print in any color.

The really cheap machines coming on the market now use plastic filament, with a print head that melts the plastic and deposits it in a line to make the printed part. They're really cheap to own and operate, but slow and produce parts with blobs and grainy lines all over their surface. Still, useful for many purposes. We have one here at the office that has already paid for itself in building custom jigs and fixtures, and I'm building one for home use.

[Enkel]

Here's a home printer that prints up to 8.9 x 5.7 x 5.9 inches. This is Soooo tempting, but as with all printers, it's the 'ink cartridges' that put you in the poor house.

http://store.makerbot.com/replicator-404.html

[AndrewL]

Originally Posted by Enkel

Here's a home printer that prints up to 8.9 x 5.7 x 5.9 inches. This is Soooo tempting, but as with all printers, it's the 'ink cartridges' that put you in the poor house.

The 'ink' isn't as bad as you might think for these. It's about $21 per pound for most colors, and a pound of plastic lasts a pretty long time. You can get it cheaper from Ebay or overseas sources, but the cheaper stuff isn't really recommended as it might not print as evenly, or could even damage your print head.

The printer I'm working on at home will have a print area that's approximately an 8 inch cube, which is about the largest you'll see in any hobby-grade machine. Larger than that and you start running into problems with the part warping as it cures and cools while still being printed. Avoiding that requires you to have the entire print chamber enclosed and temperature-controlled, and that gets expensive.

[AaronX]

Originally Posted by AndrewL

The photo-polymer UV-cured resin system is still used. It's fairly expensive, however, since the specialty resin isn't cheap, but gives better fine-scale resolution than other systems.

The powder-based 3D printers are cheaper and can use a wider variety of materials, since they're basically gluing together grains to make the desired shape. Usually they need an after-coat of glue to bond everything for proper strength once done. The big advantage of these is that the print head that sprays the binding agent onto the powder can also deposit ink at the same time, so you can print in any color.

The really cheap machines coming on the market now use plastic filament, with a print head that melts the plastic and deposits it in a line to make the printed part. They're really cheap to own and operate, but slow and produce parts with blobs and grainy lines all over their surface. Still, useful for many purposes. We have one here at the office that has already paid for itself in building custom jigs and fixtures, and I'm building one for home use.

Oh, fascinating! They print using glue? I thought they're Selectively Laser Sintered.

[AndrewL]

Originally Posted by AaronX

Oh, fascinating! They print using glue? I thought they're Selectively Laser Sintered.

SLS is used for printing with metal powders. It's useful for making metal parts that need to have actual strength. It's also fairly expensive.

Selective Binding uses a head that sprays glue (and optionally ink) onto a powder of plastic (or ceramic, or many other materials) to selectively bind them. That's what's used to make full-color objects, or to make things from ceramic or other non-metal powders.

[Heart of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by Enkel

So, if you're interest in 3D creations, apparently here is the self-publishing / amazon.com site for creating, selling and buying 3D objects: http://www.ponoko.com/

I'd love to get a home 3D printer kit, but so far they seem to be only able to make SMALL stuff. Once they hit the ability to make something 18x18, I'd love to get one to play with.

It looks like Ponoko has "making hubs", where they take your designs and do the fabrication for you: http://www.ponoko.com/about/the-big-idea

It looks like it could get pretty expensive pretty quickly; if I calculated correctly a solid 18x18x1 3D piece would start at just under $1700 to make. But if you really want to try out large-scale projects, it might be worth looking into.

Also, kind of a tangent, but here's another approach to 3D fabrication that could become a reality in the near future: smart sand.

This is really cool stuff!

[Enkel]

This is such a bad thread for me! I'm rarely into toys... but I've been working on casting something in concrete and have been watching the videos on that site... I'm >this< close to buying the dual head printer.... If I were rich, the thing would have been bought about an hour ago!

[wheresmymind]

I remember a few years ago Wired magazine seemed to have a hard-on for personal (sometimes homemade) 3D printers, but the technology was basically just a nozzle that squirted out melted plastic. It seemed to me that for just a few thousand dollars and many hours of my time, I could be producing plastic army men that looked *almost* as good as the plastic army men you can buy a bag of in Toys R Us for 99 cents. Amazing! Let's just say I didn't share their enthusiasm. But the technology is really advancing by leaps and bounds, and it does seem like these machines will have a groundbreaking effect in the near future.

[Enkel]

Originally Posted by wheresmymind

I remember a few years ago Wired magazine seemed to have a hard-on for personal (sometimes homemade) 3D printers, but the technology was basically just a nozzle that squirted out melted plastic. It seemed to me that for just a few thousand dollars and many hours of my time, I could be producing plastic army men that looked *almost* as good as the plastic army men you can buy a bag of in Toys R Us for 99 cents. Amazing! Let's just say I didn't share their enthusiasm. But the technology is really advancing by leaps and bounds, and it does seem like these machines will have a groundbreaking effect in the near future.

I think those who would be enthusiastic about it are the people who have specific needs. The item that I wanted to cast in concrete was because I needed more strength and design flexibility than wood and I'd looked at creating a mold to create the specific item. BUT, it would be very heavy. If I could print if from ABS plastic, it would perform the same services, but be quicker to create and much lighter. (My ideal for this would be resin, but the local shop is insanely expensive to use for short run products)

Also, I have a desire for a 'clip' to hold some wood pieces at a specific angle. I'd been looking at how to put it together out of metal (e.g. welded pieces). That is overkill for the strength, but could fill the need. Now, I could buy a welder, learn how to use it, or contract this out. The project has stalled out over the decision.

So, there are probably the geek squad types who just like the 'neat factor' of it.
Then there are going to be artists who use it as a medium.
Then there are people who see the ability to fabricate with materials that in the past were limited because you had to contract them out to specialized shops.

[Enkel]

Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness

It looks like it could get pretty expensive pretty quickly; if I calculated correctly a solid 18x18x1 3D piece would start at just under $1700 to make. But if you really want to try out large-scale projects, it might be worth looking into.

I'm going to see if I can break it into components to be assembled using OpenSCAD. If I can reach a point where I can render it on-screen and it looks the way I want, then I'll probably order the printer. If the 3D design packages are too difficult to use, then the printer would be a waste of money for me.

[madmonk28]

Stupid question: but I've always wondered why this process is called printing.

[Enkel]

Originally Posted by AndrewL

The printer I'm working on at home will have a print area that's approximately an 8 inch cube, which is about the largest you'll see in any hobby-grade machine. Larger than that and you start running into problems with the part warping as it cures and cools while still being printed. Avoiding that requires you to have the entire print chamber enclosed and temperature-controlled, and that gets expensive.

Who do you think has the best motor/print head configuration right now if I'd like quality prints but also need a reliable printer?

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

Stupid question: but I've always wondered why this process is called printing.

I don't if it is exactly this, but it works something like the process of dot matrix printing. The early development of the software for the new systems would actually print the 2D layers of a 3D model until the mechanical device was perfected. In addition, a much earlier form of this process would create multiple layers printed on plastic or paper that were laminated together.

[AndrewL]

Originally Posted by Enkel

Who do you think has the best motor/print head configuration right now if I'd like quality prints but also need a reliable printer?

Honestly, I've only had direct hands-on experience with the Makerbot MK7 print head, which works reliably enough (though it's heavy and has a cheap fan). I expect the MK8 in the Makerbot Replicator works at least as well. I don't have any personal experience with any of the other commercial printer heads yet. The printer I'm building at home is a custom Rostock-based design using a mini J-head and a direct-drive filament drive mechanism I'm designing from scratch. It does seem to me that direct drive is a better option than a geared drive head from the point of view of reliability, although you need to use 1.75mm filament and a decently powerful motor to do direct drive.

Print quality in my experience has a lot more to do with the software you use and the rigidity of your Cartesian platform - the Makerbot Thing-O-Matic as shipped had terrible rigidity and needed a lot of modification before it printed well enough for me, although it does look like the Makerbot Replicator has fixed most of those design flaws.

[Hypno-Toad]

Originally Posted by Miller

You just heard about this? They've been using this tech for years now to do stuff as mundane as printing out a figurine of your World of Warcraft character.

Also, is it just me, or does the dude with the wrench in that video totally sound like Al Franken?

I've wondered if the days of buying figurines for table top games may be numbered. Instead, you'd go online and buy a download for a 3D printer and print out figurines as needed. It may be possible to include a paint job on them in the printing process. Sort of takes the fun out of it.

[AndrewL]

Originally Posted by Hypno-Toad

I've wondered if the days of buying figurines for table top games may be numbered. Instead, you'd go online and buy a download for a 3D printer and print out figurines as needed. It may be possible to include a paint job on them in the printing process. Sort of takes the fun out of it.

Some of the manufacturers of figurines are already worried about this.

Not long ago someone designed some models for use when playing Warhammer 40K. They weren't identical to any of the figurines already in the game, but were in the same style. In addition to printing them out, he uploaded the 3D files to the Thingiverse website. The publisher of WH40K promptly filed legal action and got the Thingiverse site to remove the files. Not that will stop this kind of thing - the Pirate Bay site already has a category listing for 3D object files.

[Rachellelogram]

Does anyone else see the implications of human copying, here? I could make a copy of myself to do everything while I sit at home playing video games all day! Well, or maybe we could split duties down the middle (since a copy of myself would also be as lazy as I am). Still, it'd be awesome to work part-time for full-time wages. All I'd have to worry about is feeding my other self! Well, that and the risk she'd clock me and assume my life for her own.

Also, maybe someday we can print out and implant a good kidney for people in renal failure!

[filmore]

I don't think that linked video is accurate. They show them scanning the wrench and then printing it. I don't think it would be possible to have a functioning wrench just from scanning it. The scan wouldn't be able to tell how the sliding mechanism works. A scan-to-print process would produce a solid replica of the original item, but wouldn't be able to reproduce the moving parts.

Likely they printed a wrench from a CAD drawing they have where the components are individually modeled. Regardless, still it's pretty impressive.

[Strainger]

Originally Posted by AaronX

Also - didn't 3D printing use to use a liquid precursor and laser-curing system? I saw that on TV many many years ago. Now they seem to use powders.

Both are still frequently used. The liquid based approach is known as stereolithography (video) and is generated by curing layers of resin to form the full part. It has one of the finest resolutions (i.e. thickness of layers--affecting surface roughness) of any of the additive manufacturing technologies. The problem is it's not self supporting, because it's liquid, so you may need to include some additional structure to break out later.

The powder based, as someone else mentioned is known as selective laser sintering (SLS) (video; she's pretty easy on the eyes). This is where a laser fuses layers of powder together to form the complete part. Since it's a solid powder, it's self supporting, meaning you can generate assemblies without additional temporary support structure. Also, the material's pretty strong, so you can use it in lab tests much more easily than with weaker materials. It does have a rough, powdery texture though.

I've found that the world seems hellbent on refering to all types of additive manufacturing as "3D printing" whereas at my company we just refer to 3D printing as the cheaper spin-off of fused deposition modeling (FDM). FDM (video) works by extruding melted plastic through a nozzle to build the part layer by layer. Whereas the FDM machines are pretty expensive, the 3D printers (just cheaper versions of FDM machines, essentially) are relatively inexpensive.

All the different types of rapid prototying/additive manufacturing are used pretty regularly, depending on the customers' needs. No technology has replaced the other at this point. They all have their advantages and disadvantages.

[DocCathode]

I see a revolutionary technology, fortunes made and fortunes lost, and a chance to finally get a life size model of my skull.

[madmonk28]

What is so cool about 3D printing is that it has brought industrialization full circle. We have gone from industrialization that created a mass produced world filled with identical and disposable crap to a world in which each of us will have to power to hand craft unique individual items. I predict that as with most technological revolutions, this one will be used to produce porn.

[leahcim]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

I predict that as with most technological revolutions, this one will be used to produce porn.

I'd always thought the ideal first application of this technology was custom dildo manufacture.

[Der Trihs]

Originally Posted by Rachellelogram

Also, maybe someday we can print out and implant a good kidney for people in renal failure!

No ";" they're working on it.

[Rachellelogram]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

No ";" they're working on it.

And that doesn't make you smile!? Surely you have a heart of stone >:[

[Dr. Righteous]

Just read this today..... the latest in the series of "Technology, the Sword that Cuts Both Ways".

[RalfCoder]

Originally Posted by astro

I don't see how you can make a wrench all at once with the parts being separated from each other. I would think you'd have to scan and make the parts individually then put them together for them to work.

IANAE (I am not an engineer), but my take on this is that they lay down thin layers of the powder, and selectively add the resin to harden it. When they come to a point where the parts almost but don't quite touch, they simply add powder with no resin. So when they come to the thumb-screw used to adjust the wrench's jaws, there's a little threaded cylinder of loose powder around the bits that have resin to form the screw itself. This keeps the bits from sticking together, and when the powder was blown off after it came out of the printer, everything moves as desired.

But I suspect that they did have to disassemble the original wrench to be able to scan all the parts accurately. Otherwise, the scanning process would have had to been able to scan through the frame of the wrench to find the shape of the hidden part of the moveable jaw.

[cochrane]

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

They use all sorts of things. There's even fairly successful research into 3D printing of living tissue. Bone, skin, organs, etc.

Originally Posted by Rachellelogram

Does anyone else see the implications of human copying, here? I could make a copy of myself to do everything while I sit at home playing video games all day! Well, or maybe we could split duties down the middle (since a copy of myself would also be as lazy as I am). Still, it'd be awesome to work part-time for full-time wages. All I'd have to worry about is feeding my other self! Well, that and the risk she'd clock me and assume my life for her own.

Also, maybe someday we can print out and implant a good kidney for people in renal failure!

Originally Posted by Der Trihs

No ";" they're working on it.

Huh. I thought that was strictly in the realm of science fiction.

SPOILER:

Like in Eureka when they used a 3-D bio-printer to create a new body for Holly.

I had no idea we were already doing research into printing living tissue.

[Disheavel]

Fun fact: The guy in the blue shirt in the video is the same guy whose house was remodeled by This Old House last year (the really old 1700s house that got a marble counter top with a cut out for a compost bin!).