Fifty Shades of Grey [spoilers?]

[phungi]

I recently heard about this "novel" from a variety of sources, and gave it a read. I can't say I found the book very captivating... the "erotic" scenes were somewhat repetitive and ridiculous after a while, and I actually thought to myself "these characters seem as vapid as Edward and Bella" from Twilight.

I then saw an article in the local paper on the book, and also saw it was #1 on the NY Times bestseller list for paperbacks and also combined eBook and print. So, I did a little research, and was surprised what I found and that there was no thread on this "book".. I use quotes, as it appears to be a fan-fiction treatment of the Twilight series, which I personally found to be vapid and painful to read. The author, EL James, appears to have written a fan-fiction novel Masters of the Universe which was based on Twilight, and then adapted the novel to not resemble Twilight. There is a pretty extensive list of online discussions, but this one does a pretty good job of explaining the similarities.

I am, however, curious:
- are others reading or have read this novel or series.
- as a male, I wonder if this is as "steamy" to women as is suggested.
- is the treatment of S&M/B&D indicative of a universal female fantasy (e.g., the strong sexy domineering man with unlimited libido).
- perhaps most importantly, for married female dopers with kids, has reading this increased your interest in and frequency of having sex?

[Imago]

Originally Posted by phungi

*snip*
- is the treatment of S&M/B&D indicative of a universal female fantasy (e.g., the strong sexy domineering man with unlimited libido). *snip*

Nope.

[Evil Captor]

Ok, I'm reading it, I'm currently on about Chapter 15. I am male, I'm reading it because it's part of a genre I write in and looks to be a major mainstream breakout book, along the lines of Story of O and 9 1/2 Weeks.

It's very much a romance, I mean, the lead character is a beautiful virginal college student and a handsome, kinky young billionaire falls for her. Yah, that's realism, but I give her a pass on that, and not because it's "just erotica." I found the first eight chapters very hard slogging, as there is not so much as a kiss to be had in them, it was all character build-up and by chapter four I was ready for things to start happening, but they didn't. Moved at a snail's pace.

Fortunately once they DID start banging the story took off. The lead character enjoyed the sex a lot, that pleasure was communicated well, and things moved right along. And here's the reason I give the story a pass for it's unrealism ... it gives the author of a chance to explore the issue of how does someone who hasn't had much experience or interest in vanilla sex (her roommate jokes that she lacks the "need a man" hormone) sort out the issues involved in getting together with a way kinky billionaire (who does not at first realize that she is a virgin)? As she often points out, she has no basis for comparing what she does with Christian, the male lead, and normal sex, cause she has not had any.

The lead character also wishes poignantly for the normal aspects of a relationship, dates, etc., instead of the dom/sub relationship Christian is into. There's a contest and clash of wills there, even though the lead clearly loves the sexual activities Christian getsup to with her, but she does not know if it's because it's sex or because it's kink.

At chapter 15 the characters are still in the middle of all that sorting out and it's moving along rippingly. Not sure how far that can string out or how it might change, but I believe I got a handle on the novel's success other than the ubiquitious "mommy porn" meme.

[phungi]

Looks like this will be adapted for the screen, although I would imagine it will either get an NC17 rating, or go straight to DVD.

Surprised the SDMB readership has not chimed in on this, given it is an SMBD book...

[SpoilerVirgin]

Originally Posted by phungi

Looks like this will be adapted for the screen, although I would imagine it will either get an NC17 rating, or go straight to DVD.

I think it's far more likely that it will be tamed down to get an R rating, especially since it was purchased by Universal.

What I want to know is how do I convert the fan fiction novel I wrote back in 1998 into a New York Times #1 bestseller?

[phungi]

Originally Posted by SpoilerVirgin

I think it's far more likely that it will be tamed down to get an R rating, especially since it was purchased by Universal.

What I want to know is how do I convert the fan fiction novel I wrote back in 1998 into a New York Times #1 bestseller?

Rewrite it into a The Hunger Games sequel about an erotic SMDB triangle with Katniss as a dom?

[twickster]

It's the cover story of this week's Entertainment Weekly. (Well, the cover of the subscription version, newsstand got Hunger Games.)

I have no interest in reading it, but then I had no interest in reading Twilight, so that proves nothing.

And no, not all het women have S&M fantasies.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by phungi

Looks like this will be adapted for the screen, although I would imagine it will either get an NC17 rating, or go straight to DVD.

Surprised the SDMB readership has not chimed in on this, given it is an SMBD book...

What do you mean, it's an SDMB book?

[madmonk28]

I keep hearing how this book is more appealing to women, can someone who has read it explain why that is?

Also, I predict that the movie won't translate to the screen well and will be a flop. People are more comfortable reading a hot scene in their homes than they are going to a cineplex to watchi it with a bunch of other people.

[phungi]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

What do you mean, it's an SDMB book?

SMBD book, as in S&M, B&D...

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by madmonk28

I keep hearing how this book is more appealing to women, can someone who has read it explain why that is?

Also, I predict that the movie won't translate to the screen well and will be a flop. People are more comfortable reading a hot scene in their homes than they are going to a cineplex to watchi it with a bunch of other people.

I am not a woman, hence I can only theorize, but I have read some romance novels, and this book has many of the features of a romance novel. The heroine is a self-effacing virgin, unsure of herself but who proves irresistible to the male protagonist. Who is young, handsome, successful (a billionaire!) but had Dark Secrets that make him broody and mysterious on occasion. It's the strong BDSM scenes that make it different, than and the heroine's liking for BDSM. So I'm voting for the fact that it features many of the elements that have made romance novels appealing to women for a long time.

[tim314]

My wife, who's a big fan of (in her words) "trashy romance novels", thought it was great. Her description was basically: more kink than the typical mainstream romance novel, more plot than the typical kinky romance novel.

[CalMeacham]

I hadn't heard of this until I saw last week's Newsweek, with its cover story on "mommy porn" B&D stuff, for which this book is a prime example:


http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2012/04/...-be-dominated/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...fantasies.html

"So does this mean you want to be spanked?" I asked my wife,. Pepper Mill.

"No," was the unequivocal reply.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by CalMeacham

I hadn't heard of this until I saw last week's Newsweek, with its cover story on "mommy porn" B&D stuff, for which this book is a prime example:


http://www.bagnewsnotes.com/2012/04/...-be-dominated/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...fantasies.html

"So does this mean you want to be spanked?" I asked my wife,. Pepper Mill.

"No," was the unequivocal reply.

It's a fantasy. Liking a war novel does not mean you want to enlist in the Army. Liking a murder mystery does not mean you want to quit your job and become a private eye. A lot of things make good idle fantasies, but are not necessarily things you want to actually do.

[phall0106]

I just finished all three books and came in to take a peek at what my fellow Dopers had to say about it. I'm surprised that no more have put their two cents in the pot. Oh, well.

I read for a variety of reasons, the primary one being the development of the relationship between two characters. I loved watching them grow and change, and move past objects within their relationship. This book, I think did that well. I think both of the characters managed to do just that, although I wish writers would realize that not everyone who is quiet is overwhelmingly shy or grossly clumsy or virginally inexperienced. Some of us like to take moments to just observe the world (which often comes across as shy).

I did like how she stood up for herself, internally debated as to when to fight and when to let it go, and how there were scenes where real life (not just book life) kicked in. (The scene where he asked about her period made me squirm, but yet it was more reality than I've seen in many books. Ditto where she needed to pee, but wouldn't in front of him.)

The sex scenes were repetative after awhile, but maybe I'm a just bit jaded. Would I want to be bound, blindfolded and fucked? Probably not (I simply don't have that level of trust with anyone and can't imagine having that level of trust with someone). However, as a very strong and independent woman myself, there is something incredibly appealing about having a man who is in control (or at least appears to be that way) and knows exactly what he wants. How would that work for me IRL? I'd most likely tell him to get lost if I were faced with someone who acted like Christian and had to be in control so much of the time.

Actually, having read all three books, I thought the part that left me wanting more was at the end where the reader saw things through Christian's eyes. That was far more interesting, with more depth of character and one which I would gladly pick up and read.

[Johnny Q]

At least they have the right reader for the audiobook(NSFW)

SPOILER:

You have been warned

[Gabing Gaboing]

I just finished the series today. As I am a Mommy, the book and recommendations went around my circle pretty fast. But then again, so did Twilight.

I liken it to the Judy Blume books of middle school. We all passed them around, the libraries at school refused to carry them, so of course they were hot.

The first book felt like she just wanted to write as many sex scenes as possible to win a dare or something. They were more graphic than regular romance books but I just felt that they were written purely for the shock factor. Once the main characters' relationship started to form, I liked the books better.

What I liked was how the female changed the male, in direct opposition to Twilight. Ana tamed the monster in Christian and switched his focus from pure lust and sex to lust and love. Which is what they tell me we women are supposed to want. Then there is the whole Cinderella fantasy where the poor little college grad gets a gazillionaire to fall for her and won't entertain the idea of a prenup. I must say I was as lusty about his giving her an iPad as anything else.

What I didn't like was how a virgin twenty something tried, and liked, all sort of sexual behavior. The topic in my circle was "yeah, right...what woman in real life likes doing that...and would have at 21?"

I agree the graphic sex scenes got tedious by the third book. But the underlying story of Christian's youth and dealings with the bad guy were exciting and drew me in.

It will make a crappy movie BTW.

[phall0106]

I actually started skipping over the sex scenes mid way through the second book. I really only scanned them for dialogue that went beyond gasps.

[CalMeacham]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

It's a fantasy. Liking a war novel does not mean you want to enlist in the Army. Liking a murder mystery does not mean you want to quit your job and become a private eye. A lot of things make good idle fantasies, but are not necessarily things you want to actually do.

I'm aware the book is a fantasy, and of the difference. But Spanking is so low-level an enactment that it's a plausible reality.

[alexandra]

It was quite badly written. I gave up halfway through, reading the original fanfic online (she hasn't changed much, I believe). The extended discussions of the Pill and whatever- why?! And the deepthroating, orgasming-on-command through penetration virgin is hilariously implausible.

I did like the email exchanges, though. They were well written.

[echo7tango]

I'm a happily married guy who started reading it but gave up after the first book. Before reading it I thought it appealed to both women and men, and maybe the polls show that. But after book 1 it didn't appeal to me and I thought maybe it appeals more to women.


Maybe this is why. Maybe not.

Originally Posted by tim314

My wife, who's a big fan of (in her words) "trashy romance novels", thought it was great. Her description was basically: more kink than the typical mainstream romance novel, more plot than the typical kinky romance novel.

[AuntiePam]

A woman in my on-line book group said "It's gross and badly written and trashy but I just can't stop reading!"

I felt that way about the Black Jewels trilogy by Anne Bishop. I could recognize that there wasn't much literary value, but I felt some kind of emotional connection. It's hard to explain.

[Ura-Maru]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

It's a fantasy. Liking a war novel does not mean you want to enlist in the Army. Liking a murder mystery does not mean you want to quit your job and become a private eye. A lot of things make good idle fantasies, but are not necessarily things you want to actually do.

True, but the traditional way to introduce the possibly of a new -ah- recreational activity to a partner, while giving yourself plausible deniability, is to arrange for you and them to watch a movie containing examples of the activity of interest. Then you can casually ask about it as the credits roll. And then she can demand to know if you had her watch that whole movie just to ask that question, and you can wuss out and deny it, and she can get mad, but look very slightly disappointed, and even after your inevitable divorce you can wonder if that look was 'disappointed in you for bringing it up', or 'disappointed in you for being too spineless to actually go through with it.'

--
And unlike real life war and real life murder, spanking is actually pretty fun in real life. So are rope harnesses.

[Lochdale]

Women discover porn.

In other news, I was reading steamier stuff in Penthouse Forum when I was 14.

[Scougs]

Didn't want to start a new thread, but I just finished the third book and wanted to share an observation. There are loads of faults with the books, but I noticed something I found odd about half way through book two.

She never mentions his balls.

His "erection" gets pretty good coverage, as does his "happy trail", and she's more than keen to talk about her new found BJ skills. But the poor bloke gets zero fondling, nuzzling, tongue action or anything in the nut department. It's as if he doesn't have any.

I'm a woman who enjoys a good bit of erotica, and part of the enjoyment is the "ooh, that sounds like fun", or even getting a few tips (if you'll pardon the pun). But for an allegedly very steamy book, this falls far short by neglecting part of every man's favourite playthings.

Did anyone else notice this? Any other observations?

[singular1]

I have a Nook, and it offered a 66 page sample of this book. If the first 66 pages of dreck are any indication of the quality of the entire series, I'm noting every poster that managed to plow through this. Y'know, for "the record"...

[BlackKnight]

I heard about this book from my mother. I have no idea why she brought it up; I certainly don't discuss my porn with her.

[Savannah]

I'm just ticked off that I didn't get off my butt and finish a novel-length piece of erotica. It's a flavour I used to really enjoy writing: older man/younger woman, dominance, and lots and lots of sex. I even had steamy emails in my stuff. If I weren't so lazy, I could have been that author. Maybe.

I've read bits of it, and it didn't really grab me. Perhaps it's those sour grapes I was nibbling at the time. But I've read better erotica, and I think I've written better. But I didn't work hard enough to finish something longer and try and get it out there.

[kushiel]

Read it, went through all the books because it was like watching a train wreck. The smut is horrible and I just started skipping the sex scenes, but I was interested in christian's past.

Spoiler for all 3 books:

SPOILER:

I really wanted Elena to just be a confident domme who was just friends now with Christian, instead of a villain. Just so the heroine wasn't perfect and her total jealousy unfounded.

[Scougs]

Kushiel, I agree with you 100%. Especially the plot point you've spoilered.

[Stauderhorse]

This post contains open spoilers because I don't think these plot points are important enough to spoiler box, but just in case, here's a warning.




I read the first book and kind of enjoyed it, despite it having bad grammar/punctuation and being an obvious, thinly veiled Twilight knock-off.

I read the second book but skipped large chunks of it, as there were a lot of things that pissed me off. Ana's baseless jealousy of Leila and Elena (always calling her a pedophile, while she was technically an ephebophile (and while under the law, it's still statutory rape, I have a feeling Christian was more than capable of telling her off if he so chose)). Christian's ridiculous possessiveness and controlling nature were huge red flags. He bought the company she works for, and changed policy just so she can't go on a business trip with her sleazy boss. And, of course, Christian was right about the boss pretty much being a rapist. Another issue I have is this: why is a billionaire instantly obsessed/in love with this plain, ordinary girl? What makes her so special that she "cures" his various issues within about a month? Ana is a massive mary sue, and it shows.

The third book I skimmed very quickly, and from what I could see, it was more of the same. Sex in elevators, being pissed at each other, make-up sex, imminent danger just to pad out the plot, yadda yadda blah. And if I have to read about her inner goddess or her subconscious glaring at her disapprovingly or dancing the macarena or some other stupid shit one more time, I will...do something violent.

I guess I get the appeal of the first book, sort of. I did start to like the characters, or at least Christian, as time went on. There's no need to read the last two in the series, though, as it only gets worse. Here's a very funny dramatic reading of one of the sex scenes from the first book.

[Malleus, Incus, Stapes!]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

A woman in my on-line book group said "It's gross and badly written and trashy but I just can't stop reading!"

I felt that way about the Black Jewels trilogy by Anne Bishop. I could recognize that there wasn't much literary value, but I felt some kind of emotional connection. It's hard to explain.

I've heard much the same about Twilight.

[wonderlust]

Originally Posted by Stauderhorse

[b] Here's a very funny dramatic reading of one of the sex scenes from the first book.

Thank you for the link! I regret never knowing this was a thing we could do, back when I was drinking. The world is probably a better place because I never thought of it, though.

I came across another fun one too.

My 60-year-old hairdresser literally became a reader and bought a Kindle because of this series! Once I learned it was Twilight fanfic I never bothered to check it out, but with Evil Captor's endorsement, I may just have to download a sample.

[InternetLegend]

This, from the Daily Beast article linked above:

In fact, if I were a member of the Christian right, sitting on my front porch decrying the decadent morals of working American women, what would be most alarming about the Fifty Shades of Grey phenomena, what gives it its true edge of desperation, and end-of-the-world ambience, is that millions of otherwise intelligent women are willing to tolerate prose on this level. If you are willing to slog through sentences like “In spite of my poignant sadness, I laugh,” or “My world is crumbling around me into a sterile pile of ashes, all my hopes and dreams cruelly dashed,” you must really, really, want to get to the submissive sex scene.

Do people not know that there is better erotica/porn out there? When your prose is more painful than your S&M, I'm just not going to bother.

(My daughter says, "This just shows that Twilight fans are now old enough to read porn!")

[kushiel]

Originally Posted by AuntiePam

A woman in my on-line book group said "It's gross and badly written and trashy but I just can't stop reading!"

I felt that way about the Black Jewels trilogy by Anne Bishop. I could recognize that there wasn't much literary value, but I felt some kind of emotional connection. It's hard to explain.

I know it lacks literary value, but goddamn, does Anne Bishop know how to manipulate readers into caring about the characters. For 50 Shades, I kept reading to find out Christian's big trauma. But for the BJT I kept on reading because I genuinely cared. I dunno, I feel like comparing the two does a disservice to Bishop. She understands certain points of writing the 50 Shades author doesn't.

[wonderlust]

Originally Posted by kushiel

I know it lacks literary value, but goddamn, does Anne Bishop know how to manipulate readers into caring about the characters. For 50 Shades, I kept reading to find out Christian's big trauma. But for the BJT I kept on reading because I genuinely cared. I dunno, I feel like comparing the two does a disservice to Bishop. She understands certain points of writing the 50 Shades author doesn't.

I remember after finishing the second book of the BJT, being destroyed by how it ended, and absolutely dying to know how it turned out. I have to say I've never been so strongly affected by a cliffhanger since. But for some reason I never read the third book. It's been a few years, but I may need to start from the first book again to get up the necessary anguish to enjoy the finale and the subsequent books. Thanks for reminding me.

[Stauderhorse]

So Bret Easton Ellis, who wants to write the screenplay for 50 Shades but hasn't actually landed the gig yet, has tweeted that Matt Bomer is all wrong for Christian. Why? He's openly gay, of course. Ellis claims not to be homophobic, he just believes the actor who plays Christian should be "an intensely straight actor" who is "genuinely into women". Because, obviously, gay people can't play straight.

I find his claims of not being homophobic a little dubious, since I doubt he would say the same about a straight actor playing a gay person.

[Snarky_Kong]

My inner goddess laughed at the horrible writing.

It did lead to that Gilbert Gottfried reading, which makes it all worthwhile though.

[Evil Captor]

I've been following the general weirdness inspired by 50 Shades of Gray on my blog. It's been FASCINATING. It's been claimed that the novel has sparked a baby boom. It's been claimed that the novel's sales, and the sales of sex toys inspired it, will save the economy. A British power company has launched an energy conservation campaign called 50 Shades of Green. Penguin books, whose profits are down by 50 percent this year, claims that 50 Shades of Grays' sales has distorted the adult book market. A TV station in Ohio promoted a communal book burning ceremony for 50 Shades of Gray by husbands, in what can only be called a communal celebration of dicklessness.

It's a weird world out there, and 50 Shades of Gray is making it weirder every day.

[DoperChic]

For all of you who say that there is so much better erotica out there, mind sharing? I have found one other similar series but it's so much worse it makes 50 shades look like classic literature.

[vivalostwages]

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

My inner goddess laughed at the horrible writing.

It did lead to that Gilbert Gottfried reading, which makes it all worthwhile though.

I'm reading it now, and my freaking gorsh, does this woman ever overwrite! She reports every thought, every moment, every gesture, every tone, and uses the words "Crap" and "holy crap" on pretty much every other page.

[wonderlust]

Originally Posted by wonderlust

My 60-year-old hairdresser literally became a reader and bought a Kindle because of this series!

I'll never be able to look her in the eye again.

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by DoperChic

For all of you who say that there is so much better erotica out there, mind sharing? I have found one other similar series but it's so much worse it makes 50 shades look like classic literature.

There are plenty of romance novels with extremely explicit, sometimes kinky sex, that are also well written. For example, Susan Johnson is a pretty well known name in erotic romance. Find some here:
http://www.likesbooks.com/cgi-bin/searchReviews.pl
(search by selecting "burning" under the category "sensuality" and "A" under Grade)

In short stories, any "Best American Erotica" anthology edited By Susie Bright is a safe bet. Mitzi Szereto is another fairly reliable anthology editor.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by DoperChic

For all of you who say that there is so much better erotica out there, mind sharing? I have found one other similar series but it's so much worse it makes 50 shades look like classic literature.

I'm enjoying the webcomic Sunstone (shiniez.deviantart.com/gallery/), which is where I heard about this novel. It's about a lesbian couple that partakes in BDSM, and unlike Fifty Shades of Grey doesn't make the dom sound like a serial killer.

Originally Posted by Hello Again

There are plenty of romance novels with extremely explicit, sometimes kinky sex, that are also well written. For example, Susan Johnson is a pretty well known name in erotic romance. Find some here:
http://www.likesbooks.com/cgi-bin/searchReviews.pl
(search by selecting "burning" under the category "sensuality" and "A" under Grade)

Aww, you can search for male/male romance, but not female/female romance.

[Mr Shine]

http://redlemonade.blogspot.ie/2012/...ry-vol-12.html

A blog that tells you all you need to about "50 Shades of Grey".

[Grumman]

There's one thing I do like about this series, apart from the recaps and parodies: it's given me something to write for NaNoWriMo. An anti-Fifty Shades of Grey, about an ex-Seabee who dates a man who isn't an abusive stalker, has kinky sex because she enjoys it and whose short involvement with a less admirable lover (who may or may not be named Chris) ends with a headbutt.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by Grumman

I'm enjoying the webcomic Sunstone (shiniez.deviantart.com/gallery/), which is where I heard about this novel. It's about a lesbian couple that partakes in BDSM, and unlike Fifty Shades of Grey doesn't make the dom sound like a serial killer.

I'll add a big recommendation for Sunstone as a quality story as well. It does a great job of capturing the characters as people, with their hesitations, their eagerness, their joy, their loneliness, their moments of doubt, etc. They are not just cardboard cutouts doing the sexy fantasy deeds. (For the record, this is where Fifty Shades shines as well.) However, not everyone may find the lesbianism all that attractive, even though the artwork is not explicit (while making very clear what's going on sexually at the same time. And the quality of the art is also topnotch.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by Mr Shine

http://redlemonade.blogspot.ie/2012/...ry-vol-12.html

A blog that tells you all you need to about "50 Shades of Grey".

Why yes, in the same sense that the works of George Bernard Shaw will tell you all you need to know about human beings, except of course that they come in two sexes, and have sex.