New book by two Dopers - the truth about vaccines

[Kolga]

We do not (unless LavenderBlue has a relationship with him that I don't know about, in which case we shall Have Words ). However, his investigation into the Wakefield issue was an inspiration to us.

[j666]

Well, if you ever meet him, tell him you know someone on a message board that just gushes about what a hero he is.

In the meantime, you will be my heroes, and I will brag to everyone how well I know you.

[Khadaji]

Congratulations and good luck!

[Rachellelogram]

Oh yay! I'm so happy you found a publisher.

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by j666

Well, if you ever meet him, tell him you know someone on a message board that just gushes about what a hero he is.

I'll do that, right after I finish gushing to him about how *I* think he's a hero

[LavenderBlue]

I talked to Dr. Offit over the phone like a teenager within ten feet of Justin Bieber. Does that count?

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

I talked to Dr. Offit over the phone like a teenager within ten feet of Justin Bieber. Does that count?

What LavenderBlue is kindly not sharing is that while she was the point contact person for Paul Offit, I was too star-struck to even talk to him on the phone

[StusBlues]

Originally Posted by Wheelz

I plan to order a copy and have it sent to the following address:

Jenny McCarthy
Jenny Mccarthy Productions
Bloom, Hergott and Diemer, Llp
150 S Rodeo Drive
3rd Floor
Beverly Hills, CA 90212

I plan to take a monster-class poop and have it sent to the same address.

[LavenderBlue]

Nice review of the book on the Parents Magazine website:

http://www.parents.com/blogs/mom-mus...pes-and-shots/

Written for parents who are pro-vaccine or who just want information about what’s in all of those kids’ shots, this book is a great resource.

Yeah!

[Jackmannii]

Congratulations to both of you.

I was going to mention the book in an Amazon health forum discussion on vaccines, but the end result would probably be a pack of antivaxers posting negative reviews of the book without ever having read it.

So, how much did Big Pharma pay you to write it?

[Heart of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Nice review of the book on the Parents Magazine website

Awesome. What bugs me about that review, though, is that she then says:

Originally Posted by Kristen Kemp, Parents

This book is not for parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy.

I think that's exactly who this book is for, along with people who are uninformed or on the fence. People like me who are already pro-vaccine might well enjoy the book, but it's kind of preaching to the choir. I wish she would have said something like, "Parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy (that there is a link between vaccines and autism) will find a wealth of information in this book that challenges those ideas."

[Inner Stickler]

The problem is that, in my experience, people do not come to the conclusion that vaccines cause autism through logic and reason and therefore, logic and reason have little to no effect on their opinions. Do you know what Wakefield's study was about? He hypothesized that the MMR vaccine was causing gastrointestinal problems in children and that was what was causing the autism symptoms. Now, there's nothing to support this view in his study and later studies found a similar lack of evidence. So what happened? The anti-vaxxers transferred their fear to thimerosal and since vaccines have been thimerosal-free for many years, they find other chemicals to fear or simply state that there's not enough info to come to an informed decision, despite the wealth of evidence on the CDC's side.

[Mama Zappa]

Originally Posted by Terr

My kid is autistic. Diagnosed etc. Unmistakably. Yet if you see him on playground, you will see him interacting (somewhat) with other kids, running over to me and talking with me (you'd have to stand close to hear the speech problems such as mixing pronouns and formulaic speech).

Ditto - it's definitely a broad spectrum of symptoms, and RyJae's daughter is more severely impaired than my son (or yours).

Whether it's truly growing, or better / more accurate diagnosis, or whatever, is hard to say; I haven't done the research. I do know that my own family is pretty hard hit (4 out of 6 biological cousins have significant issues, 2 of them autism).

For Kolga and LavenderBlue: In your research, have you stumbled across *any* health issues that seem to be tied to vaccination? By that I mean things that appear to have an autoimmune tie (e.g. the increase in allergies, any other disorders).

We never subscribed to the whole Wakefield thing, but kept an open mind about a possible autoimmune component, mainly because my nephew's symptoms *seemed* to improve somewhat when he was on high-dose steroids for a while. So, my kids have been fully vaccinated, but we *did* take a slower approach than the official plan (e.g. never more than 2 at a time, waited longer than average between 'em, never got a new vaccine within a year or two of its being introduced etc.). In our judgment, this posed minimal additional risk while ultimately offering acceptable protection.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Heart of Dorkness

Awesome. What bugs me about that review, though, is that she then says:
I think that's exactly who this book is for, along with people who are uninformed or on the fence. People like me who are already pro-vaccine might well enjoy the book, but it's kind of preaching to the choir. I wish she would have said something like, "Parents who agree with Jenny McCarthy (that there is a link between vaccines and autism) will find a wealth of information in this book that challenges those ideas."

I agree.

We were aiming for two kinds of parents: those who don't know much about this subject and those who do. We wanted to provide the latter with the means to help combat the nutters. Both of us have spent hours and hours and hours arguing about this issue on various message boards. We approached the book from the POV of what the hell are the anti-vaccine arguments and how can we show they're wrong.

Many people who are pro-vaccine can find themselves confronted by anti-vaxxers and find themselves unsure about how to respond to their arguments. We wanted to help provide people with the tools to confront them effectively.

Inner Stickler,

We're not aiming for the true believers. I have and so has Allison. At one point I spent three days of my time at the anti-vax forum over at the now defunct Mothering Magazine boards. The boards still exist unforunately but the magazine has stop publication. I got one thank you note from an on the fencer and approximately fifty allegations of pHARMAshill, baby killing, crazy liar.

I try not to poke my toes in the crazy unless I have absolutely have to.

Mama Zappa,

We did not see any autoimmune links from vaccines. We found no evidence of a decrease in side effects from spacing out or delaying vaccines.

[Mama Zappa]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

....
I try not to poke my toes in the crazy unless I have absolutely have to.

Heh - yeah, that can NOT have been pleasant.

Mama Zappa,

We did not see any autoimmune links from vaccines. We found no evidence of a decrease in side effects from spacing out or delaying vaccines.

Thanks - I'll read up on that later. In our situation (this was mostly 10-15 years ago), we had to try to juggle the whole disease-prevention thing and the family concerns, and come up with a compromise. Plus I just thought it was *mean* when they tried to jab my kid 3 times in a single visit (I brought her back for the 3rd one a month or so later).

[LavenderBlue]

Mama Zappa,

I understand. I hate needles myself. The only thing that got us through the shots was nursing. My girls love to nurse so I let them when being jabbed.

Scientists are working on needless shots right now:

http://voices.yahoo.com/flu-vaccine-...26.html?cat=70

Maybe one day our grandkids will be able to get shots without needles.

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Scientists are working on needless shots right now:

Arrgh! Needleless!

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Jackmannii

Arrgh! Needleless!

You don't want to know how I spelled Hippocrates in the rough draft.

[Mr. Miskatonic]

I just read this since I almost never go into this section. Awesome work guys!

You should be interviewed on Skeptic's Guide to the Universe podcast or something.

[Maeglin]

Marvelous. Add me to the list of parents with autistic children who will be eagerly digesting this book.

[fumster]

Originally Posted by Inner Stickler

The problem is that, in my experience, people do not come to the conclusion that vaccines cause autism through logic and reason and therefore, logic and reason have little to no effect on their opinions. Do you know what Wakefield's study was about? He hypothesized that the MMR vaccine was causing gastrointestinal problems in children and that was what was causing the autism symptoms. Now, there's nothing to support this view in his study and later studies found a similar lack of evidence. So what happened? The anti-vaxxers transferred their fear to thimerosal and since vaccines have been thimerosal-free for many years, they find other chemicals to fear or simply state that there's not enough info to come to an informed decision, despite the wealth of evidence on the CDC's side.

Had a discussion with my anti-vax sister the other day. Pointed out that vaccinations have helped reduce diseases once common, she replies "Polio was already on its way out when the vaccine was developed" I walked out and slammed the door.

Later on when I cooled down we talked more. She tries and makes peace by saying "we'll never really know" which made me even madder as I tried to explain that yes, we will know, because we can look at statistics of people who did and did not get vaccines of various types. The concept seemed to escape her: her thought was that if a kid develops autism after a vaccination it may have been caused by that, even if the statistics over a large population do not support it. Absolutely pointless to argue, she can go to dozens of web sites supporting her view and any that disagree with her are just part of the pharma conspiracy. The only thing that gave her slight pause was when I pointed out that Wakefield was working for a pharma company himself trying to push an alternate vaccine.

[Yeticus Rex]

I just found this thread and even though you are preaching to the choir here, I too will purchase the book.

Congratualtions.

[Kolga]

Thanks again for all the support and all of the kind words, guys!

Originally Posted by Mr. Miskatonic

You should be interviewed on Skeptic's Guide to the Universe podcast or something.

We have a Skype interview set up for the "Skeptically Speaking" podcast on September 23. I don't know what the air date is, but we'll keep you posted

[LavenderBlue]

I'll be at the Words Bookstore in Maplewood, NJ for a book signing and q and a session on October 21st at 2 p.m. The independent book store aims to help employees and patrons with autism. I'm both excited and a little scared.

[Northern Piper]

Thanks so much for writing this book! Mrs Piper has already posted a link to her Facebook page for her mommy friends to see.

[LavenderBlue]

Lovely review of the book from a blogger who writes about her son's autism. I think one of the very worst things the anti-vax nuts do is try and make parents who vax feel guilty if their child winds up autistic. I have seen quite a bit of cruelty directed towards mothers of children with autism who don't tow the vacccines equal autism line.

[Andy L]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Lovely review of the book from a blogger who writes about her son's autism. I think one of the very worst things the anti-vax nuts do is try and make parents who vax feel guilty if their child winds up autistic. I have seen quite a bit of cruelty directed towards mothers of children with autism who don't tow the vacccines equal autism line.

Autismum is a great blogger - congrats on getting a review from her

(P.S. "toe the line")

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Andy L

Autismum is a great blogger - congrats on getting a review from her

(P.S. "toe the line")

Thank you.

I need to stop posting on the days when Youngest is getting up three times a night.

[lorene]

Posted to my Facebook page as well.
Most of my friends have kids who are older, but there are friends of friends and all that.

[lorene]

Originally Posted by lorene

Posted to my Facebook page as well.
Most of my friends have kids who are older, but there are friends of friends and all that.

Within 20 minutes a friend of mine posted that she is buying herself a copy and one to lend! Yay!

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by lorene

Within 20 minutes a friend of mine posted that she is buying herself a copy and one to lend! Yay!

Yeah!

Meanwhile I just got essentially censored by the West Caldwell NJ library today. I walked in past a sign lauding the appearance of an author about a silly book about the paleo diet at the library next week. I showed a copy of the book to the librarian. The creep dismissed me with a few muttered cursory comments about how they really don't do want to do personal author appearances at the library anymore as they only attract a few people. He said "We're not interested" a few times and waved me away.



I swear that probably explains why the stupid branch has copies of nearly every horrible anti-vax book ever written. I am half tempted to contact the mayor and ask why their local librarian refused to let a pro-vaccine advocate and published author speak to the community about a vitally important health issue.

[Antigen]

Originally Posted by lorene

Posted to my Facebook page as well.

Count me in. Trying to spread the word against misinformation and vaccine hysteria.

[kayT]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Yeah!

Meanwhile I just got essentially censored by the West Caldwell NJ library today. I walked in past a sign lauding the appearance of an author about a silly book about the paleo diet at the library next week. I showed a copy of the book to the librarian. The creep dismissed me with a few muttered cursory comments about how they really don't do want to do personal author appearances at the library anymore as they only attract a few people. He said "We're not interested" a few times and waved me away.



I swear that probably explains why the stupid branch has copies of nearly every horrible anti-vax book ever written. I am half tempted to contact the mayor and ask why their local librarian refused to let a pro-vaccine advocate and published author speak to the community about a vitally important health issue.

Do you have a local paper?

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by kayT

Do you have a local paper?

Yes we do. I may see about contacting them to write for them. I will be speaking at the West Orange NJ library in November at a date as yet undetermined.

[Jackmannii]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Meanwhile I just got essentially censored by the West Caldwell NJ library today. I walked in past a sign lauding the appearance of an author about a silly book about the paleo diet at the library next week. I showed a copy of the book to the librarian. The creep dismissed me with a few muttered cursory comments about how they really don't do want to do personal author appearances at the library anymore as they only attract a few people. He said "We're not interested" a few times and waved me away.

Are you sure it was an actual librarian, and not a clerk or other individual with no actual power to make such a decision?

I'd think most libraries would be pleased to attract readers through a freebie author appearance. If this one is run by someone who only wants to promote woo, then alerting his/her boss(es) is appropriate.

I don't recall ever seeing an author talk at our local library branch; we get some signings at the B&N (typically fiction authors, thankfully no health loons or similar wooists).

If you're traveling through central Ohio, let me know, as it would be a pleasure to take a couple of distinguished authors out for good barbecue.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Jackmannii

Are you sure it was an actual librarian, and not a clerk or other individual with no actual power to make such a decision?

I'd think most libraries would be pleased to attract readers through a freebie author appearance. If this one is run by someone who only wants to promote woo, then alerting his/her boss(es) is appropriate.

I don't recall ever seeing an author talk at our local library branch; we get some signings at the B&N (typically fiction authors, thankfully no health loons or similar wooists).

If you're traveling through central Ohio, let me know, as it would be a pleasure to take a couple of distinguished authors out for good barbecue.

Oh I know exactly who I spoke to today. It was Ethan Galvin. His official title is Coordinator - Adult Programming, Public Relations & Community Outreach.

I would also think that most libraries would be happy to see a local author in person. But judging by the number of anti-vax books I routinely see at that branch and that branch only, I think someone there is definitely on the nut bandwagon over there. I have no proof. Going by today's conversation I strongly think it's him. My husband dubbed the guy the head of the Librarians Against Facts local chapter.

I get emails all the time about local author appearances and routinely go them when I have a chance. This library is sponsoring an appearance by a fellow local author promoting a fad diet that is presently announced the minute you walk through the library doors.

If Diane Sanfilippo can babble about the "whole foods lifestyle" there's no reason I shouldn't be able to talk about what we can do help protect our babies from this state's pertussis outbreak.

If you're ever in NJ, let me know as would be happy to take a fellow doper out for truly great pizza.

[lorene]

Coincidentally enough, the FB friend who is buying 2 copies lives in New Jersey (and is a scientist. HA!).

[Exapno Mapcase]

I clicked on Marketplace by sheer accident so I've seeing this for the first time.

I want to add my congratulations. I've written several popular medical books and I know both how incredibly difficult they are and how rewarding they can be. A simple thank you from a stranger means more than a thousand knocks from the crazies and loons. You done good.

I have a few suggestions for going forward built on my experiences. I don't know what your plans are so these all may be obvious to you or totally irrelevant. If anything's helpful, though, feel free to use it.

Checking in on Amazon I found that your books comes up #32 when searching on vaccines and at #7 when searching for anti-vaccine. That's pretty good but probably a reflection of Amazon building publishing date into its algorithm. (I heard a pundit during the convention call it an a-logarithm and I wanted to throw a chair.) Amazon also uses customer reviews to decide relevance. If you look at the top 30 books almost all the ones without customer reviews are new, while much older - and probably outdated - books with high review counts outrank them. I'd encourage people here who want to support the book to add a review. And I'd encourage you to tell all buyers to post a review.

You don't seem to have a web page for the book. That could help a lot. People can link to web pages and that drives you up the Google listings. And they provide a place to post appearances and comments, answer questions, and get feedback from readers. A blog can do most of this but a site with fixed information that doesn't scroll has advantages. I had a pro put up a site using Wordpress for a nominal amount of money but I do my blog myself. Your book is already appearing on related websites and that's good. Try to make as many contacts through them as possible and keep your names active.

Remember that the crazies are organized. I once many years ago put up a blog post about a truly crazy alternative allergy treatment that's on the far periphery of what I normally write about. Yet I've gotten more comments on that post than any other. And virtually 100% praise the wonderfulness of the treatment and call me names. It's a fringe treatment that you would never have heard of and there are days when I believe that more people have written me about it than have ever actually tried it. They're not your audience. The louder they are the more they lessen themselves in the eyes of people who want real, hard information and facts. Or so I tell myself.

With 250,000 books being published every year, breaking through the clutter takes as much work as writing the book in the first place. Just when you thought you were out...

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase

I clicked on Marketplace by sheer accident so I've seeing this for the first time.

I want to add my congratulations. I've written several popular medical books and I know both how incredibly difficult they are and how rewarding they can be. A simple thank you from a stranger means more than a thousand knocks from the crazies and loons. You done good.

I have a few suggestions for going forward built on my experiences. I don't know what your plans are so these all may be obvious to you or totally irrelevant. If anything's helpful, though, feel free to use it.

Checking in on Amazon I found that your books comes up #32 when searching on vaccines and at #7 when searching for anti-vaccine. That's pretty good but probably a reflection of Amazon building publishing date into its algorithm. (I heard a pundit during the convention call it an a-logarithm and I wanted to throw a chair.) Amazon also uses customer reviews to decide relevance. If you look at the top 30 books almost all the ones without customer reviews are new, while much older - and probably outdated - books with high review counts outrank them. I'd encourage people here who want to support the book to add a review. And I'd encourage you to tell all buyers to post a review.

You don't seem to have a web page for the book. That could help a lot. People can link to web pages and that drives you up the Google listings. And they provide a place to post appearances and comments, answer questions, and get feedback from readers. A blog can do most of this but a site with fixed information that doesn't scroll has advantages. I had a pro put up a site using Wordpress for a nominal amount of money but I do my blog myself. Your book is already appearing on related websites and that's good. Try to make as many contacts through them as possible and keep your names active.

Remember that the crazies are organized. I once many years ago put up a blog post about a truly crazy alternative allergy treatment that's on the far periphery of what I normally write about. Yet I've gotten more comments on that post than any other. And virtually 100% praise the wonderfulness of the treatment and call me names. It's a fringe treatment that you would never have heard of and there are days when I believe that more people have written me about it than have ever actually tried it. They're not your audience. The louder they are the more they lessen themselves in the eyes of people who want real, hard information and facts. Or so I tell myself.

With 250,000 books being published every year, breaking through the clutter takes as much work as writing the book in the first place. Just when you thought you were out...

Thank you so much for this wonderful post. Allison and I will carefully consider your suggestions. We're trying to do what we can in between our full time jobs and family committments.

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

Lovely review of the book from a blogger who writes about her son's autism. I think one of the very worst things the anti-vax nuts do is try and make parents who vax feel guilty if their child winds up autistic. I have seen quite a bit of cruelty directed towards mothers of children with autism who don't tow the vacccines equal autism line.

I have talked to the parents of our son's class (when we celebrate one of their birthdays), and every single one of us are ardent defenders of busting the vaccination-autism connection; each one of us has had the opportunity of setting an anti-vaxxer straight to a point where they don't even get a chance to be cruel.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by Yeticus Rex

I have talked to the parents of our son's class (when we celebrate one of their birthdays), and every single one of us are ardent defenders of busting the vaccination-autism connection; each one of us has had the opportunity of setting an anti-vaxxer straight to a point where they don't even get a chance to be cruel.

That's fantastic.

Booklist gave the book a very nice review.

http://www.booklistonline.com/Your-B...hy/pid=5613134

This thoroughly researched book should convince even ardent vaccine skeptics that the benefits of giving kids shots to prevent illnesses far outweigh any negatives.

The only odd thing about the review is she asserts we didn't provide an index. I assure anyone who wants to read it, the book does indeed have an index!

[Yeticus Rex]

Originally Posted by LavenderBlue

That's fantastic.

Booklist gave the book a very nice review.

Damn, that is one of the best summations from a reviewer I've ever seen:

It is a book written not to persuade but to demonstrate that vaccinating a child who can be vaccinated is a loving act of a responsible parent.

[Kolga]

Again, thank you all for your support! And Exapno Mapcase, your suggestions are very very helpful. We do have a Facebook page (under "Your Baby's Best Shot") and a Twitter account for the book (@BabysBestShot), but building a webpage is something neither of us have had time for yet.

Since the Booklist magazine is often used by librarians to determine what books to buy for public and school libraries, it would be a helpful thing for Dopers to mention if you want to encourage your local libraries to buy copies

[gardentraveler]

Ooooooh, I was going to say that I only know of Booklist because of my friends who are librarians. Glad that they gave it such a good review. I wonder if you can contact them about the index. Maybe the advance copy didn't have one for some reason.

The sentence Yeticus Rex quoted is a marvelous summary.

Gotta go follow you on Twitter.

[Docta G]

Originally Posted by Kolga

Two fed-up dopers share with you all we've learned about vaccines. We have no ties to the pharmaceutical companies. We're simply two ordinary people sick and tired of arguing with the wrong people about this subject over and over again.

We'll show you: Why Andrew Wakefield was in the wrong from the very start -- What life was like before vaccines -- What's in a vaccine (and what isn't) -- What's behind the so-called epidemic of autism -- Exactly what's wrong with the really bad anti-vax websites -- Where to find the good sources to use in an argument -- How they test vaccines for safety -- What you can do to help reduce true vaccine reactions.

Two hundred and twenty pages of footnoted, double-checked, multi-sourced, Paul Offit/Respectful Insolence-endorsed honest and accurate information about one of the vitally important subjects of our time. A must for any parent and anyone else interested in vaccines.

Available on Kindle starting tomorrow, and available for pre-order in hardcover:

http://www.amazon.com/Your-Babys-Bes.../dp/144221578X

My son is autistic, and I am well familiar with autism-spectrum disorders and ABA therapy, etc.

I won't be buying your hack book.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

In response to that, I just did. Wakefield was a immoral criminal and your book is scientifically accurate and a true public service.

[DrDeth]

Originally Posted by Docta G

My son is autistic, and I am well familiar with autism-spectrum disorders and ABA therapy, etc.

.

I am deeply sorry for your sons condition.

[Inner Stickler]

Originally Posted by Docta G

My son is autistic, and I am well familiar with autism-spectrum disorders and ABA therapy, etc.

I won't be buying your hack book.

This really isn't the appropriate venue for arguments but if you would like to start a thread in IMHO or GD about what you think is the cause of autism, I'd be more than happy to participate.

[LavenderBlue]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

In response to that, I just did. Wakefield was a immoral criminal and your book is scientifically accurate and a true public service.

Thank you. I just want to remind anyone reading this that my share of any profits will go towards a campaign to help provide measles vaccines for all the world's poor children. If you like it or hell even if you didn't could you please provide a brief review of the book on Amazon?

We would like to get it ranked in the Amazon search listings. As Exapno Mapcase points out, part of the ranking process is based on reviews. Right now when you search under books for vaccines the first twelve books that show up are nearly all bad. You'll see books like the Dr. Sears book complete with stupid alternative delayed vaccine schedule, Louise Kuo Habakus's collection of stupid anti-vax screeds and Neil "I Speak With Space Aliens" Z. Miller's false info. Only a single of one of Dr. Offit's books shows up.

We'd like to help change that.

[Kolga]

Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen

In response to that, I just did. Wakefield was a immoral criminal and your book is scientifically accurate and a true public service.

That you for your support!

Originally Posted by Docta G

My son is autistic, and I am well familiar with autism-spectrum disorders and ABA therapy, etc.

I won't be buying your hack book.

I am sorry you feel that way. As Inner Stickler pointed out, I'm not sure this is the appropriate forum for debate, but if you'd like to start a thread in an appropriate forum, we can discuss the scientific evidence that vaccines are not linked to autism.