50 Shades of Grey

[ladyfoxfyre]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

When I read the synopsis, I was more creeped out by the idea that he wanted her to sign a contract detailing exactly what he was going to do, than all the bondage stuff. Am I the only one?


(Tampon sex? WTF???)

It was a contract of agreed upon activities, set boundaries of what is and is not acceptable during a session. That's not really as creepy as you're trying to make it sound, as far as that community is concerned. It's actually a pretty responsible way of doing things.

[kath94]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

MOTU?

Yes, please explain. Google isn't helping.

[Southpaw]

MOTU = Master of the Universe; the title of the fan fiction that, with minimal changes became 50 Shades.

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I'm sure it plays heavily into the book's success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian's relationship started out with.

I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded!

Did we read the same book? Because the books I read were about a control-freak stalker and an overly naive doormat. I also found nothing powerful or sexy about the sex. In fact, by the end of the first book (despite hating them, I did read all three. Yes I'm a masochist) I was skimming the sex scenes due to the boredom.

[CrazyCatLady]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I'm sure it plays heavily into the book's success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian's relationship started out with.

I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded!

You've not ever read any decent erotica, have you? Also, most of us are not masochists, so we shall decline your invitation to reread that dreck.

[LVBoPeep]

I liked it...probably not for any intended reasons. It was funny, I laughed and I couldn't put it down. Bad writing or not, I was entertained. Edited to add: My enjoyment may be directly related to the fact I got it for free through my local library and didn't pay a dime for it. I did, however, purchase a copy for my friend.

[Andiethewestie]

I read it, and I liked the story. I was originally creeped out by the bondage, but that made the young protagonist relatable, she was creeped out too.

Well written or not, and it did have its problems, I doubt EL James is bothered.

[Zeriel]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded!

Don't confuse "scratches your particular itch" with "good", my man.

[An Gadaí]

Sold a rake of copies of it, so I'm delighted. I don't think we sold a copy to anyone under 40, nor any men.

[kath94]

For those who have complained here that 50 shades is "bad erotica," can you suggest something better? Not being snarky, just curious, really.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

MOTU?

Master of the Universe. There are plenty of PDF's floating around out there, although it's long been removed from fanfiction.net It's the bad, bad, bad Twilight fanfic that was the original 50 Shades before names and a few identifying details were changed... AND THAT'S IT. I'll say it again; I do not have a problem at all with a published book being based on fanfics. But it really is tacky to not change a single thing.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by kath94

For those who have complained here that 50 shades is "bad erotica," can you suggest something better? Not being snarky, just curious, really.

I though you'd never ask!!

Here's something short:

A Random D/G Smut Biscuit

Here's something long:

Millions of Malfoys (and One Very Sleep-Deprived Ginny)

Here's a press release!

Death Train: It's Fifty Shades of Grey for Grownups

E.L. James based the Fifty Shades series on her well-known Twilight fanfiction. Now, popular Harry Potter fanfiction writer Anise has upped the ante with Death Train: A Novel of Obsession. Over half a million online readers have enjoyed her fanfictions, which inspired this dark, erotic love story.

Watch for it on Amazon in December 2012! A perfect gift for Grandma.

(Okay, that last sentence wouldn't actually be included. )

And just to prove that I don't only pimp my own porn (although it is hard out there for a pimp):

Use Me: By Recension

Now there's some BDSM fanfic porn.

[kath94]

Anise, all of your links go to the same forum that requires registration.

Can anyone recommend some good erotica books? You know, for scientific comparison?

[Anise]

Ugh! I forgot about that-- you do have to register to see them. Well, if nobody else comes up with a list of books, I do have one.

[smokey78]

after seeing Julie Powell, the blogger of Julie and Julia (played by Amy Adams in the film) as a judge for a cooking gameshow on GSN, I was wondering what she had done since the film was released, and I had no idea she wrote an unpopular sequel called Cleaving in 2009. Why did I put it in this thread? Folks complained the book was full of S&M, smut-filled travails of a glorious affair (and a doormat husband) and nothing endearing as her cooking blog.

I read interview of where her next plan was to write a novel, and then this Fifty Shades author beat her to it. Too bad Julie used her own life and not a fictionalized creation.

[Evil Captor]

I've written a blog post that seems very germane to this thread, I've cleaned it up a bit and posted it here, FYI.

I've found a really interesting analysis of 50 Shades of Gray on the Feministing Community site, entitled "Unconventional Sex Ed Lessons from 50 Shades of Gray". It's written by Mimi Arbeit, a feminist educator who teaches sex education to teens. She says she expected to find the book a huge disappointment because of all that she'd heard about it, but was pleasantly surprised by it, finding it a welcome change from the dominant themes about sex and romance in the media.

By that she means the book covers a lot of things that other books do not. Most importantly, Ana and Christian communicate clearly and honestly with one another about sex throughout their relationship. Christian is always careful to get Ana's informed consent before he has any kind of sex with her. They discuss and plan for contraception before they have sex. And the book directly and powerfully portrays Ana's experiences of sexual pleasure and desire. As I've noted repeatedly, James does a REALLY good job of conveying how much Ana and Christian enjoy their sex play.

Wildly popular books about sex read by teens NEVER have any of this stuff, says Arbeit, so she is enormously grateful to see an erotic romance that mentions all of the lessons she is trying to instill in her teen students, whose media experience does not include ANY of it.

Arbeit's opinion of the book is not wholly positive -- she says she could just as easily write a list of ten things she finds problematical about the book, and I believe her. But she is glad of the book as a chance to open up a dialog which allows her to convey the importance of some of these themes to her teen students. And I think that's what opens her up to the positive aspects of the books that other readers (looks significantly at some of the other posters in this thread) missed. She saw what was there because her experience teaching teens had sharpened her eye to it.

Other readers have so many prejudices about the book (and I suspect the kinky sex that it contains) that they will do any horrible stupid thing they can think of to make it look bad.

Here's a great example of what I'm talking about, a post to a fantasy message board called "The Black Gate” by someone named "Theo." A choice quote:

So does 50 Shades of Grey go too far? Not on the surface, as according to its description it is little more than John Norman’s Gor brought back to Earth, minus the sword battles and the awesome tarn birds. And it’s not a question I can legitimately even try to answer, since I haven’t read 50 Shades of Grey, nor do I have any intention of doing so.

Theo didn't read it, so of course he makes a completely wrong comparison of 50 Shades with the Gor novels, which as a guy who read 20 or so of the Gor novels, the kink was of the distinctly nonconsensual kind (the Gorean slaves just loved it because they were natural born slavegirls) which makes it WAAAAAY different than 50 Shades, which is all about the consensual and had nothing to do with sex slavery.

But then Theo goes and accuses 50 Shades of being stealth pedophilia, based on the accusations of an anonymous poster on another message board who relates the story of an unnamed purported child psychologist who read the book and decided that Ana is written as a 12-year-old for some reason, possibly the "oh my!"s "Inner goddesses" and suchlike.

It smells like one of those classic put-up jobs with a made-up friend who is an authority (child psychologist) is used to attack something to make it seem awful (pedophile porn) with vague evidence (even though Ana is identified as a twenty-one year old college grad, she's "written as a child") hoping it will stick.

Fortunately, a couple of posters on the Black Gate board who responded to Theo's post saw it for the piece of shit it was and gave it a thorough going-over, a very Doper-like drubbing that was well deserved. It's always kind of heartening to see some good, hard Doper-like analysis occurring elsewhere on the Web, wish it happened a lot more often.

To be honest, the Black Gate post is about an order of magnitude worse than any of the other posts which have dissed the book. But I've been following 50 Shades of Gray in the media, and I've found plenty of others who have dissed 50 Shades based on nothing but a verbal description of it and a lot of social prejudice.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by smokey78

after seeing Julie Powell, the blogger of Julie and Julia (played by Amy Adams in the film) as a judge for a cooking gameshow on GSN, I was wondering what she had done since the film was released, and I had no idea she wrote an unpopular sequel called Cleaving in 2009. Why did I put it in this thread? Folks complained the book was full of S&M, smut-filled travails of a glorious affair (and a doormat husband) and nothing endearing as her cooking blog.

I read interview of where her next plan was to write a novel, and then this Fifty Shades author beat her to it. Too bad Julie used her own life and not a fictionalized creation.

Well, there really is no "beating her to it." Several zillion similar books have been published before, and several zillion more will be published afterwards. It depends on whether or not Powell can actually write that novel, but the idea of being "beaten to" writing a smut-filled book really isn't relevant one way or another. Now, it's true that she would not have the additional hook of being a very well-known fanfic author. But there aren't too many of us out there!
(waves the ten years of work fanfic flag!)

[DMark]

Slightly off topic, but on a recent Bill Maher show, he showed a photo of Mitt Romney reading the book, "50 Shades Of White."
Stupid visual, but it made me laugh.

[Anise]

Snerk!

Seriously,though, I was thinking about this issue some more while lying in bed with a fever and flu. (Yes, that might have affected things... why do you ask?

I don't think anyone knows exactly how many books have ever been written, but the Library of Congress has a total of 134,517,714 items in the collections. That obviously doesn't count articles, essays, short fics, internet fics, etc etc etc... So we KNOW that there have been literally tens of millions of smutty published works in the history of the world, and that may even be an underestimation. (If anyone really wants to read unbelievable BDSM porn, nothing can ever beat the Victorian journal The Pearl.) There has been women's erotica for a long time. Bertrice Small, Robin Schone, and Thea Devine are the ones that immediately leap to my mind when thinking of historicals, but even that market probably constitutes around a million works of some kind. For that matter, there is lots and lots and LOTS of NC-17 fanfic porn out there written by women for women, and a tremendous amount of it is so much better than 50 Shades in just about every way possible.

So here's why 50 Shades succeeded as it did, and it's the only reason why: It's a Twilight fanfic which fills the needs of people who read the original series and were furious with all the teasing. They wanted the explicit BDSM sex that is constantly hinted at and never really followed through on. And they definitely got it. Clearly, this audience is not limited to people who actually know anything about the fact that it originally was MoTU. Another thing is that MoTU was not a very canon-compliant fic at all, to say the least. It was firmly AU from the very beginning. The point is that the power dynamic and relationships in FS are so very similar to what we saw between Bella and Edward in the Twilight series; it's just a *slightly* different version of both characters, in both MoTU and FS.

A lot of women seem to want to explore that dynamic in fantasy and imagination. It's a very specific *version* of that dynamic which was already set up in an insanely popular published series. We can all think whatever we want about that relationship dynamic, whether our opinions are positive or negative, but still, it's what some people want in the context of fiction. And I just don't think there's any doubt about the book being fair use (although some do not agree.)

Still, it all kind of reminds me of that old Dennis Miller sketch on SNL about 2LiveCrew: "But the song's so BAD!! Couldn't we have gone to the wall for Layla?"

[Johnny Q]

A work of this stunning caliber deserves a narration to match. Lucky for us, Morgan Freeman(Geoff Petersen, actually) is here to oblige us.

SPOILER:

You weren't really thinking of playing this at work, were you?

[Andiethewestie]

Originally Posted by DMark

Slightly off topic, but on a recent Bill Maher show, he showed a photo of Mitt Romney reading the book, "50 Shades Of White."
Stupid visual, but it made me laugh.

That made me laugh my ass off .. Thanks!

[Anise]

Originally Posted by Johnny Q

A work of this stunning caliber deserves a narration to match. Lucky for us, Morgan Freeman(Geoff Petersen, actually) is here to oblige us.

SPOILER:

You weren't really thinking of playing this at work, were you?

AHAHAHA!!
It's 2:17. Y'all have time to listen to it. And watch for the ham sandwich.

Okay, HERE'S a non-password-protected link to the short smutty selection from a longer work:

Just follow this link and click on "A Random D/G Smutbiscuit.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Anise

So here's why 50 Shades succeeded as it did, and it's the only reason why: It's a Twilight fanfic which fills the needs of people who read the original series and were furious with all the teasing.

You think 50 Shades succeeded because it was a Twilight fanfic? Honestly?

I'd bet my house that less than 1 in 100 who've read it know of its fanfic origins.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey

You think 50 Shades succeeded because it was a Twilight fanfic? Honestly?

I'd bet my house that less than 1 in 100 who've read it know of its fanfic origins.

Please go back and re-read:

Clearly, this audience is not limited to people who actually know anything about the fact that it originally was MoTU. Another thing is that MoTU was not a very canon-compliant fic at all, to say the least. It was firmly AU from the very beginning. The point is that the power dynamic and relationships in FS are so very similar to what we saw between Bella and Edward in the Twilight series; it's just a *slightly* different version of both characters, in both MoTU and FS.

I know that it's hard to catch everything in an original post-- trust me, I've done that too (reacted to a post based on something that I misread.) So I'm not criticizing you... but that point was in my original post.

[Johnny Q]

With a name like Master of the Universe, you'd expect it to be He-Man fanfic.

What was he doing to Cringer again?

[Anise]

I know! That's the first thing I thought of, too.
You'd think that after 10 years here I'd know how to post images, but I don't think I post often enough... anyway...
He-Man and Cringer.

And here's something else to think about. The entire reason why FS was ever picked up by a publisher in the first place was precisely because it had been MoTU. The fanbase was huge; it had 40,000 reviews on ff.net. (And as much as I loathe the sheer dreckitude of it, I do think that it was perfectly written in order to fit into the Twilight-related zeitgeist. Perfect place, perfect time, perfect hook into the current collective fantasy life of the public.) The squeeing and free promotion from fans was not to be believed. It would have been a stupid decision on the part of any major publisher to not decide to take MoTU and put a considerable publicity machine behind it. But if it had not been a fanfic, that would never, ever, ever, ever have happened.

(I'll include cites to everything if people really want to see them. But I 'm ALREADY nauseous from the flu. )

[BigT]

For those who are tired of discussing erotica, here's a much better "Shades of Grey" book.

I brought it up because I seriously checked to make sure I wasn't going to wind up reading the subject of this thread. Yeah, I forgot about the 50 in front of the title.

I had no idea it was originally a Twilight fanfic. I'd only heard about it from that SNL mother's day skit.

[Anise]

I checked it out on Amazon. It does look interesting! Only available from 3rd party sellers, though.

The thing about FS isn't that a lot of people who bought it knew it was a fanfic. It never would have gotten published in the first place if it wasn't a fanfic. Then, it got all the advantages of major marketing and distribution available only in that way. I wonder if (in a weird way) people actually trust the quality of books put out by large publishers more than ever before. Anyone can publish on Kindle et al, and it's even easy to make covers look good (although a lot of them are still hellishly bad.) How does the public know that they'll be getting their money's worth? Traditional publishing does act as a gatekeeper, and while it can fail spectacularly at that job, at least the most amateur efforts are almost always weeded out (unless the publishing house has a pretty good idea that other factors will lead to large sales.) I'd love to know what others think about this.

[Count Blucher]

Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland

Because nothing says romance like a fist up the ass.

But in the end does she get a ring ...?

Oh wait... that was Caligula. Never mind.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by Justin_Bailey

You think 50 Shades succeeded because it was a Twilight fanfic? Honestly?

I'd bet my house that less than 1 in 100 who've read it know of its fanfic origins.

Yes, it did succeed EXPRESSLY because it started out as Twilight fanfic. The thing that got the big publishers all hot and bothered about 50 Shades is that it was selling HUGE numbers as an ebook, long before they found it. And that was because the Twilight fans who had followed Master of the Universe were buying it in droves. It was a bestseller BEFORE Viking go their grubby little paws on it, because of the Twilight fans.
This quote should make things very clear:

By March 2010[2], "Master of the Universe" was up to about 75 chapters and had perhaps 30,000 reviews and comments on fanfiction.net. A lot of these would certainly have been duplicates, as readers left comments on more than one chapter -- but for each reader who left a comment, you can assume that there were between 10 and 100 "lurkers" who left no trace at all. Basically, SQID already had tens of thousands of readers, maybe even 100,000 or more. If "marketing" means "making potential readers aware of your writing", fandom had already done more marketing than a publisher would do.

Source (an excellent read, BTW, on the way the Twilight fan community nursed MOTU, and by extension, 50 Shades, into being.

On edit, I see I got one of those cites Anise mentioned.

[Anise]

Thanks for posting that! I really, REALLY did not want to find those sources again (brain hurts just thinking about it.)

You know, here's what makes me angry. (And I won't pretend not to be angry. And I won't apologize for it, either! Well, I don't think that anybody here would care.) When Cassie Claire got published based on her HP fandom, I was happy for her. I've spoken at more than one HP conference with her. She's a good writer, and she deserved it. But FS is such utter garbage. (Yes, I know; I need to learn how to speak my mind.)

There is infinitely more NC-17 fanfic out there that is infinitely better. Recension's Use Me, Sugarbear's Smoking in the Head Boy's room, Madeline's Winning the Cup Series, Sarea and Jade Okelani's Portkey Party, La Rubinata's greatly superior BDSM series... and these are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head, and just in the D/G fandom. (And I'm not EVEN pimping my own fics here! Every one of them blows FS away in terms of smut, characterization, theme, plot, and everything else, really. People do not realize how substandard FS really is, and it's because they have not read what else is out there. It's sad.

[Justin_Bailey]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

Yes, it did succeed EXPRESSLY because it started out as Twilight fanfic. The thing that got the big publishers all hot and bothered about 50 Shades is that it was selling HUGE numbers as an ebook, long before they found it. And that was because the Twilight fans who had followed Master of the Universe were buying it in droves. It was a bestseller BEFORE Viking go their grubby little paws on it, because of the Twilight fans.

It was a bestseller as 50 Shades of Grey for over a year before a US publisher picked it up. By the time it made its way to paperback in the US, the only people that knew of its origins as Twilight fanfiction were those who sought that knowledge out.

It became a big hit because it's the latest "phenomenon book." The Harry Potter series, Twilight, The Da Vinci Code, The Hunger Games, The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo, a new phenomenon book crops up every year and people rush out to read them with no regard to the author's backstory, of often, even what the book is about. They just want to know what the hoopla is all about.

More on the publishing history and "phenomenon book" aspect: http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/n...ook/56119174/1

[An Gadaí]

Originally Posted by Anise

There is infinitely more NC-17 fanfic out there that is infinitely better. Recension's Use Me, Sugarbear's Smoking in the Head Boy's room, Madeline's Winning the Cup Series, Sarea and Jade Okelani's Portkey Party, La Rubinata's greatly superior BDSM series... and these are just the ones I thought of off the top of my head, and just in the D/G fandom. (And I'm not EVEN pimping my own fics here! Every one of them blows FS away in terms of smut, characterization, theme, plot, and everything else, really. People do not realize how substandard FS really is, and it's because they have not read what else is out there. It's sad.

Yeah but the 50 Shades hullaballoo probably draws attention to those other writers you deem more worthy of it.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by An Gadaí

Yeah but the 50 Shades hullaballoo probably draws attention to those other writers you deem more worthy of it.

I hope so. And actually, it might. I do think that the door has been opened, and that the opportunity is there. I don't know if others will capitalize on it; I know that some have already left the fandom... but OH, I do plan to seize that opportunity and not let go. (Death Train: The Novel blog coming soon to a Wordpress site near you!)

And Justin_Bailey... something tells me that we all may have to agree to disagree here. The point is HOW it got published in the first place as anything but an ebook and how it was massively helped by the big publicity machine of that major publisher. There's a reason why E.L. James took the offer and did not simply keep FS as an ebook. Otherwise, there would have been no point in giving up the huge difference in royalties.

[nashiitashii]

Originally Posted by Anise

Ahem. "50 Shades of Grey"= "Let's Test the Absolute Limits of U.S. Copyright Law."

Even within the limits of fair use, the biggest part that's going to work in James' favor is similarity of content. Though a lot of it was originally based on Twilight, she changed enough of the details of the characters that it's not a direct reproduction of Meyer's characters in a new form. Additionally, had this been more humorous and aimed as a form of satire, she'd have more protection from lawsuits in that form as well.

However, prosecution for copyright violation is up to the individual or company holding the copyright. Meyer and Little, Brown don't appear to be interested in suing James for infringement.

Originally Posted by Lamia

Wait, so the title is a pun referring to a main character's name? My opinion of this work (which I have admittedly never read) has dropped even farther, something I didn't think was possible.

I haven't read 50 Shades of Grey and probably never will, but I did read as much of the first Twilight book as I could take and from what I hear 50 Shades has changed the names and ages of the main characters, changed the setting from a small town in WA to Seattle, changed the male lead from a vampire to not a vampire, eliminated all other supernatural elements, and added a lot of explicit BDSM sex scenes while Twilight has nothing racier than kissing.

I assume the original fanfic version of 50 Shades was closer to the source material, but it sounds like the author changed enough that she wouldn't even need a fair use defense. Unless I've been greatly misled about the content of 50 Shades, it doesn't even sound like any of the ideas of Twilight were "stolen" (and as you say, ideas aren't protected by copyright anyway) beyond the very broad one of it being a heterosexual romance set in Washington.

The relationship dynamic is the biggest thing that got cherry picked. Edward/Christian is older, more experienced* and overly interested in protecting/controlling the young Bella/Ana. As others have said, there's a lot of unhealthy relationship dynamics going on and some tropes that are common enough in romance novels that don't make for good "real" relationships: a young lady who doesn't really eat much and is reluctant to eat when her male companion asks/tells her to, an older guy who's overly concerned with how much or little his ingenue eats in his presence (but with good reason in this case), the guy wants to be able to keep tabs on her at any time of day, a 22 year old who is more or less a complete luddite**, jealousy of any man other than her father... I'm sure there's more, but this is what I remember from skimming it about six months ago.

*In Christian's case, unrealistically so. As a 29-year-old, there's no way I could've done 1/5 of the things that Christian Grey supposedly has not only done, but become really good at doing in such a short time, even with unlimited amounts of money and free time.
**Look at the average 24 year old that you know (book was set in 2010/2011). How many do you know that have graduated college and don't own a cell phone or computer and have limited knowledge of how said things work? In my experience working with college students of widely varying income levels, almost all of them have either a computer or a cell phone, if not both. A large portion of them have smartphones or at least texting-oriented feature phones.

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

I read the first book, Fifty Shades of Gray, and liked it. The thing I found surprising about the book was the powerful way it communicated the pleasure that Ana and Christian took in their kinky sex play. There was such a sense of pleasure and passion in the sex scenes. You all seem to have missed that. Also, the focus of the book was clearly on the relationship between Ana and Christian. It did not start out a healthy relationship, and Ana started out with a very weak position in comparison with Christian, but over time it evolved into something more balanced and, for want of a better word, normal. You all seem to have missed that part, too, though I'm sure it plays heavily into the book's success, as the woman whose love helps heal a vital but wounded man is a pretty common theme in romance novels. All you seem to have caught was the unbalanced conditions that Ana and Christian's relationship started out with.

I want you all to reread the book, and this time, pay attention. You will be graded!

I just couldn't get past all the unrealistic inconsistencies throughout the book, and the sex scenes bored me, to be frank. Ana is still in a weird position that's not uncommon in real life (via the "trophy wife" scenario), but just because it's common doesn't mean it's a great position to be in. Plus, why are we promoting the "I can change him" trope in literature? It doesn't work and it's unhealthy to go into a relationship expecting to mold someone into your own "perfect match". Find someone who will work well for you as is or learn to look past the things you see as faults.

I haven't read the other two because the first one was a chore to read. Poor writing, ridiculous overuse of phrases and words, a character who's immature enough to not be able to reference her own genitals as anything but "down there" but who's precocious enough that she wants to try all the kinky stuff that her lover requests (with a few caveats), unrealistic experience for a 27-year-old character all built up to make it very difficult to actually finish.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Anise

I checked it out on Amazon. It does look interesting! Only available from 3rd party sellers, though.

A sequel is coming out next year, so it might be easier to find then. (And, yes, when you get to the end, you'll want a sequel, assuming you like it.)

And I think both Justin and you are correct. FS succeeded first because it was a Twilight fanfic, which got it picked up as a legitimate book, and had an initial audience because of that, but then rocketed to success on its own merits as well.

I also find it hopeful that maybe other really good fanfics can just do a basic scrubbing of character details and be published, so that more people can actually see their work. It seems more hopeful than copyright laws being modified to allow it if sufficient creativity is shown.

[Anise]

I also find it hopeful that maybe other really good fanfics can just do a basic scrubbing of character details and be published, so that more people can actually see their work. It seems more hopeful than copyright laws being modified to allow it if sufficient creativity is shown.

YAY!!! Well, anyway, that's what I did with two Harry Potter characters. They're so different from who they are in canon... I can guarantee that nobody would ever recognize them (well, except for those in the Draco/Ginny fandom who have read my work.

I totally agree with Nash about the character dynamics. That is, IMHO, the #1 reason why the book became a bestseller on its own merits after being picked up by a major publisher. FS is perfectly written in order to continue the Bella/Edward relationship and to take it in the direction of very explicit (and yes, rather boring) sex. For that specific purpose, the writing could not be better. For any other... well, I've read the entire Twilight series (hides in the Guilty Pleasure box), and Meyer's writing was Pulitzer material compared to FS.

There really is so much underlying BDSM content in Twilight. The scene in the meadow when Edward tells Bella about all the creative ways he wanted to lure her out of the school in order to drink her blood. The constant emphasis on how "breakable" she is and how he could so easily kill her without even trying. The morning after the big implied-but-not-spell-out sex scene in the fourth book! Oh, that was the most obvious... she's covered in bruises from head to toe and raves about how much she loved it while he "feels bad." Not bad enough to keep from continuing Teh Sex, however. At least until Bella is knocked up with the vampire spawn. And so on, and on...

[BigT]

That last Twilight book was pretty compelling once they got to the action. I read it when my sister left the room, just to see what was up, and she had to tell me to give it back to her so she could finish reading.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by BigT

That last Twilight book was pretty compelling once they got to the action. I read it when my sister left the room, just to see what was up, and she had to tell me to give it back to her so she could finish reading.

Oh, the whole Twilight series was a TOTAL guilty pleasure. "This is terrible!" I'd keep screeching at the page while re-reading the book for the Nth time.

I just finished a page on Fun Facts About Copyright Law for Fanfic Authors! I think it's very, very interesting. Many of the precedents in copyright law are not what you'd think. And who would have that 2LiveCrew would end up at the center of more than one landmark copyright case...

(runs from copyright lawyers. No! I'm NOT one, nor do I play one on TV.)

And btw... I just keep updating that NC-17 fanfic page.

[wyckedwahine]

Originally Posted by lorene

My mom is reading it too. She's 76.

"I wanted to see what all the fuss was about."

I actually started reading the first book for that same reason... to "see what all the fuss was about." Before that I also thought that it would be a little too much and maybe not something that I'm into reading...

I'm glad I read the books. I am on the third book of the trilogy.... only 20 pages away from the end...
I definitely recommend the book. It's not just Porn...and "fists up the a$$" as someone has mentioned. It is a love story and it is quite good how the author describes the memories of a young Christian Grey...

As the story develops you grow anxious with Anastasia as she begins to develop feelings for this "weird" guy... very good story.

[Guinastasia]

Entertaining review of FS.

And her reviews of:

Fifty Shades Darker

And
Fifty Shades Freed

(Duh, spoilers.)

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Entertaining review of FS.

And her reviews of:

Fifty Shades Darker

And
Fifty Shades Freed

(Duh, spoilers.)

If by "entertaining" you mean "a series of visual cheap shots designed to reinforce confirmation bias in those who didn't like the books" then yes, I guess they are "entertaining."

[Zeriel]

Having read the first one (I will read literally anything someone hands me, more's the pity. I also have endured Twilight and the Da Vinci Code) that review seems pretty darn spot-on to me.

As I said upthread to you,

Originally Posted by Zeriel

Don't confuse "scratches your particular itch" with "good", my man.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

If by "entertaining" you mean "a series of visual cheap shots designed to reinforce confirmation bias in those who didn't like the books" then yes, I guess they are "entertaining."

I think someone is taking this a little toooo seriously. Jesus, lighten up, would you?

[AK84]

I must confess that I read 50 Shades of Grey. I want my time and money back. It has NO redeeming value whatsoever. It is badly written fan fiction of a series which reads like badly written fanfiction anyway.

[Anise]

Originally Posted by AK84

I must confess that I read 50 Shades of Grey. I want my time and money back. It has NO redeeming value whatsoever. It is badly written fan fiction of a series which reads like badly written fanfiction anyway.

No kidding. As for people who like it-- great. Some people liked Land of Painted Caves, too (the absolutely horrendous last book in the Jean Auel Earth's Children series.) But what makes this sad is that I know EXACTLY how much NC-17 fanfic out there is infinitely better-- titles, authors, links, everything. And I really think that if these people read what is better, they would change their minds or at least be able to see it in context.

Understand, FS is perfectly written in order to take advantage of a lot of forces working in the cultural zeitgeist right now. But I know exactly, EXACTLY how and why it came to be what it is. When you do know these things, it's just about impossible to think many good things about it.

Well, except that it's paved the way for other NC-17 fanfic writers. Okay. That IS one good thing.

[AK84]

Originally Posted by Anise

Well, except that it's paved the way for other NC-17 fanfic writers. Okay. That IS one good thing.

Well, there is fanfiction of Lance Bass and the Weasley Twins (I have not read it, but cracked provides detail) and if that and other slash fictions start getting printed than NO its not a good thing.

PS what kind of fanfiction do you write anyway. The only recent NC17 I read was Star Wars; Anakin and Padme and that was rather meh especially since Padme was suspiciously lilke Evey from V for Vendetta.

[Jragon]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Entertaining review of FS.

And her reviews of:

Fifty Shades Darker

And
Fifty Shades Freed

(Duh, spoilers.)

Reminds me of the hilarious analysis of the Twilight series in relation to Mormon theology.

http://stoney321.livejournal.com/317176.html

In fact, they're so close I almost wonder if they're by the same person.

[Grumman]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

Other readers have so many prejudices about the book (and I suspect the kinky sex that it contains) that they will do any horrible stupid thing they can think of to make it look bad.

I've got nothing against kinky sex. As long as everyone involved is a relatively sane adult and wholeheartedly supports the nature of the relationship, I don't care if it's polyamoury, sadomasochism, homosexuality or anything else, knock yourself out.

But that's where Fifty Shades of Grey falls down.

BDSM should be just as much about what the submissive partner wants as what the dominant partner wants. Fifty Shades is not. Christian is constantly overstepping this boundary, using every tool at his disposal to manipulate Ana into doing things she doesn't want to do, from making her sign an NDA to isolate her from her friends to using his fortune to remove all potential witnesses before threatening to rape her in public.

If Fifty Shades of Grey was a healthy BDSM relationship, Ana would never have reason to fear that Christian would hit her out of anger. And she would not be constantly crying, alone, about how isolated the relationship made her feel. That's not BDSM, that's abuse.

[Evil Captor]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

I think someone is taking this a little toooo seriously. Jesus, lighten up, would you?

I wasn't aware that I was being heavy. However, it's possible my response was informed by all the articles I've read about Fifty Shades that were nothing more than cheap shots at it, often by people who have admittedly never read it. (Been tracking news about Fifty Shades on the Web for my blog.) I still think my description of the reviews is accurate, however. YMMV!

[Nava]

Originally Posted by Count Blucher

But in the end does she get a ring ...?

Oh wait... that was Caligula. Never mind.

No, the one with the ring was just a finger, and anyway it's a movie.

SPOILER:

Airbag. It's an example of Spanish absurdism on a par with Oscar-winner Belle Époque.

In one of the initial scenes, virgin groom-to-be Juantxo is taken by his pals to a brothel during his stag night, losing his engagement ring - inside the ass of one of the whores. The rest of the movie is about the troubles he and his friends go to in order to retrieve the ring in time for the wedding. And yes, in Spain it is common for men to have engagement rings, usually ungemmed bands identical to those of their fiancé(e)s.

I haven't read "50 shades", but one of my coworkers started skimming a copy while at the airport and started ranting against the translator. He looked ready to faint when I told him it wasn't the translator's fault, it really is that bad.