Why did Howard Stern ever want to be a shock jock?

[DKW]

I'm going to add something to the America's Got Talent thread as soon as I see tonight's results show. I'm amazed by how much I like this one now. There's some incredibly good stuff, and the crowd is one of the best behaved I've ever seen.

But by far the biggest revelation has been Howard Stern. I'll admit, when he first hit the scene, I found him seriously unlikable. He sounded exactly like the moronic, no-talent, gutter trash clowns I knew from high school with absolutely no skills other than stirring crap up. The fact that of all the gutter trash imbeciles that ever existed, he was able to make an amazingly lucrative living at this, really upset me. I don't remember any Hawaii radio stations carrying his show, but I did hear snippets here and there, mostly from news specials, and I was far from inspired.

I can barely remember reading anything at all positive about him. There was this article on ESPN way back, someone comparing him to Charles Barkley, something like he can say what he wants because deep down he's a nice guy and knows his stuff, but that's it.

And then he repliced Nigel Whasisface on AGT. By then I'd pretty much forgotten about him and didn't have much interest in reality TV anyway, but I still caught some episodes over dinner.

Holy cow. A complete 180 from the shock jock I've read about so much...hell, a complete 180 from most reality TV judges. Just completely intelligent and even-handed, like he knows the entertainment industry inside and out. I find myself agreeing with about 98% of what he says. Most judges rate about 40% on a good day. Best of all, he never forgets what the show is about; he realizes that an act can be great but wrong for Vegas.

So my question is, was shock value and grossness something he just really wanted to do for some reason? Was this just a Madonna thing, breaking new ground and getting his foot in the door? I mean, I can accept that Weird Al Yankovich is a talented singer who just happens to really like making people laugh, but Stern...I have a hard time getting it.

Disclaimers: I haven't seen Private Parts, and the only news article I could find was about the slam he made against Jay Leno. (I think he came across badly in that, but I don't know enough about the situation to judge.)

[Hail Ants]

Well, you've poisoned the well a bit with your early opinion of him. All I can say is you prejudged him incorrectly. I first listened to him on WNBC and I immediately recognized that he was no flash in the pan shock jock. He was intelligent, witty, totally un-politically correct (before that term even existed), but he treated all subjects this way. Including taboo ones like sex, race, the hypocrisy of showbiz etc. Because of this he got lumped in with others with the label 'shock jock'.

As he became more & more famous he always absolutely loathed and rejected the term 'shock jock' because he saw that for what it was: Being pseudo-obscene and obnoxious in lieu of having any true talent. He would also make the (very correct) point that because radio is the lowest rung of show business this is why it's populated with so many talentless goofball 'shock jocks'.

There's a reason he's literally the only person in radio to become mega-successful, he's always been a very smart, intelligent, talented entertainer. Just sometimes he's not afraid to showcase this by having a competition where porn stars fish hotdogs out of a toilet with just their mouths (hey, it was a brand new, unused commode sitting in the studio...)

[grude]

For some reason he reminds me of Penn&Teller on their show Bullshit, there is a lot of cursing and topless women but that is just to keep things entertaining. I guess I could see someone deciding the show was lowbrow nudity and language and writing off the rest which is very thought provoking.

He is also totally politically incorrect, to the point it would be easy to label him racist/sexist/etc. just going by what he says and not really noticing the sentiment behind it.

[cmkeller]

Hail Ants:

There's a reason he's literally the only person in radio to become mega-successful

Only? Hardly. Rush Limbaugh and Laura Schlessinger, for example. You might not care for their political/social views, but you can hardly dispute that they're mega-successful, and their primary medium is radio.

[Dorjän]

Originally Posted by DKW

Disclaimers: I haven't seen Private Parts, and the only news article I could find was about the slam he made against Jay Leno. (I think he came across badly in that, but I don't know enough about the situation to judge.)

How about you watch Private Parts? it would answer a lot of your questions.

[TriPolar]

He wanted to be a shock jock because he recognized that radio talk was stupid and vaccuous, and he understood correctly that people wanted more entertainment. This was over 30 years ago, and the world has changed a lot since. People have a lot more choices on radio and television now, and shock jocking is just one of many facets.

[Jophiel]

Originally Posted by DKW

Holy cow. A complete 180 from the shock jock I've read about so much...hell, a complete 180 from most reality TV judges. Just completely intelligent and even-handed, like he knows the entertainment industry inside and out. I find myself agreeing with about 98% of what he says. Most judges rate about 40% on a good day. Best of all, he never forgets what the show is about; he realizes that an act can be great but wrong for Vegas.

I have the exact same impression of him and, like you, never bothered to listen to his show and had only a middling impression of him.

It's funny because my wife listens to his show in the mornings and apparently Stern says that he wants his judging comments to be the same thing people on their living room couches are saying. Sure enough, there's been multiple occasions where an act ends, I say some remarks about it, and Stern repeats them almost verbatim a few moments later.

[control-z]

I used to listen to him on the radio years ago, his radio show is love it or hate it. He is capable of extremely crude thoughts which he is happy to share with the teeming masses and he has been very successful while doing so. He's a smart guy.

[gaffa]

Janis Ian wrote a spirited defense of Howard for The Advocate.

[WordMan]

There's a difference between craft and shtick.

- Craft - What people are saying they respect about Stern is his craft - he's invested years and knows how to entertain people, and what is entertaining in others. When to be provocative to stir conversation; when to put a guest under a spotlight vs. offering full support - whatever engages an audience. He is a very thoughtful craftsman - his riffing on air is totally thought-through, based on craft. This is what is shown - based on what I have see in clips - on AGT: Howard commenting on the craft of entertaining.

- Shtick - that's his persona that he uses when he applies his craft. His rude persona works given what he is trying to achieve for his craft. Shock jocks that try to follow Stern but aren't nearly as good are all shtick and no craft. They get lucky every now and then, but don't know how to dance on the line without crossing it - or when to cross it boldly in a way that gets people engaged, not just disgusted - the way Stern does...

Definitely see Private Parts - really quite good and insightful...

[Sitnam]

Originally Posted by DKW

Disclaimers: I haven't seen Private Parts

If the movie is to be believed then he went shock jock because at one time he was a shy man with no niche, popularity ensued and he then had an audience to satisfy.

[Sitnam]

I know it's an autobiographical, but he really came across as a genuinely sensitive introspective guy, you should see it.

[msmith537]

Originally Posted by WordMan

Shtick - that's his persona that he uses when he applies his craft. His rude persona works given what he is trying to achieve for his craft. Shock jocks that try to follow Stern but aren't nearly as good are all shtick and no craft. They get lucky every now and then, but don't know how to dance on the line without crossing it - or when to cross it boldly in a way that gets people engaged, not just disgusted - the way Stern does...

Definitely see Private Parts - really quite good and insightful...

Stern positions himself (and his longtime friends) as just a bunch of guys (albiet imature ones) just trying to have some good natured gross fun while the stuffy conservative "establishment" (which is typically the butt of their jokes) tries to keep them down.

In contrast, when Don Imus called the Rutgers women's basketball team a bunch of "nappy haired hoes". He just came across as a bully and a jerk.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Sitnam

I know it's an autobiographical, but he really came across as a genuinely sensitive introspective guy, you should see it.

He also came across as a great husband who would never do anything to hurt his marriage. The separation was about two years later. It makes the movie hard to watch now. I thought the book was better. They fictionalized some of the real life events in the movie but left it factual in the book. Some of those events I heard live on the air so seeing them fake seemed weird.

He pushed the envelope in order to break out of the pack. He did not invent that style of radio contrary to what he says but he did perfect it and pushed to the front. He is a smart and talented guy. I always found the most enjoyable parts of his show were when he wasn't trying to be shocking.

Having said that I have to say I can no longer watch or listen to him. I was a big fan from back in the WNBC days. I still have my Crucified By the FCC CD. But he just bores me to death now. He is stale and boring. I have Sirius and I try to listen but I never last long. And his exposed hypocrisy sickens me.

[Clawdio]

I haven't listened to Stern since he went to Sirius. But fefore that I listed to his show every day for a few years. I was pretty young & immature then so I liked the raunchy parts... but i also always thought he was a fantastic and entertaining interviewer.

[Hail Ants]

Originally Posted by cmkeller

Only? Hardly. Rush Limbaugh and Laura Schlessinger, for example. You might not care for their political/social views, but you can hardly dispute that they're mega-successful, and their primary medium is radio.

True, though I doubt Dr Laura is in his level of success (as in Stern is nine-figures rich and counting). Rush might be. But Stern is primarily in the entertainment biz, his self-declared title 'King of All Media' is somewhat accurate (though mostly boastful joking). Rush is the king of talk radio and has written a few best-sellers (I read a couple of them) but he's viewed primarily as a politico. And it doesn't help that, although Stern has his detractors, Rush is just dismissed & utterly despised by everyone in the entertainment business.

[BigT]

No, Stern was not judged incorrectly. He deliberately chose an adversarial persona for his show, even though he's really not like that. The point was likely to capture the people who really felt that way as an audience, a group of people who didn't have anyone at the time. Over the years, more of his real personality leaked in, to the point that he's generally okay.


Plus, he's being heavily censored on TV. And he was heavily depressed when he first started, and depressed people like to lash out.

[DKW]

Some great responses here. I guess, then, that the comparison to Weird Al Yankovic is actually sound, a man with genuine talent who for some reason felt compelled to do something weird with it. I think that part of it was that he came along at the right time, when political correctness really was getting out of hand, and someone willing to push back, but with humor, could build a loyal following.

I should add that talk radio isn't something that I spend a lot of time listening to (and I'm not aware that any station in Hawaii carries his show), so while I can definitely see the appeal of someone like Madonna, or Charles Barkley, or even Rush Limbaugh, Stern's overwhelming success has always been a mystery to me.

Thanks a lot. Nice to know I can count on this board being informative and even-handed most of the time.

Will definitely look for the book on Amazon this weekend. The problem with the movie is that Blockbuster Video is all but a relic now (one location I know of still standing, in a part of the island I rarely go to), Netflix seems like more trouble than it's worth, and Sony/Microsoft's selections are still limited. (I hate that BV is toast; I've always been of the opinion that online movies should be an additional option to video rentals, not replace them entirely, but that's another thread.)

[gaffa]

Originally Posted by DKW

Some great responses here. I guess, then, that the comparison to Weird Al Yankovic is actually sound, a man with genuine talent who for some reason felt compelled to do something weird with it.

It's a tangent, but I feel that, in general, Weird Al is more talented than the people he is parodying. His parody of Lada Gaga's "Born This Way" - "Perform This Way" - features lyrics that are much better from a technical perspective; better rhymes, scans perfectly, and has a refrain that actually has lyrics rather than just repeating the same phrase over and over.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Loach

He also came across as a great husband who would never do anything to hurt his marriage. The separation was about two years later. It makes the movie hard to watch now. I thought the book was better. They fictionalized some of the real life events in the movie but left it factual in the book. Some of those events I heard live on the air so seeing them fake seemed weird.

Well, Stern playing a fictionalized version of himself still comes off better then Eric Bogosian playing a fictionalized version of Alan Berg (in Talk Radio). Bogosian's character was an insufferable jerk to everyone, including his wife.

[Sage Rat]

Originally Posted by Loach

He also came across as a great husband who would never do anything to hurt his marriage. The separation was about two years later. It makes the movie hard to watch now. [...]

Having said that I have to say I can no longer watch or listen to him. I was a big fan from back in the WNBC days. I still have my Crucified By the FCC CD. But he just bores me to death now. He is stale and boring. I have Sirius and I try to listen but I never last long. And his exposed hypocrisy sickens me.

I've only ever heard Howard Stern a few times while visiting my brother, so I'm not a fan or anything. You seem to be saying that he's a hypocrite because he claimed to have a strong marriage when really he didn't. But you also say that this is something he wrote two years before his marriage ended - and since most books take a year to publish, he probably wrote it three years before. Three years seems pretty sufficient for a relationship to change and I just googled and there doesn't seem to be any particular indication that he cheated on her.

I think you might be overthinking this.

[DKW]

Oh, one more thing...what the heck was that flap with Jay Leno about? Something like, yes, Leno took a pay cut, but he wasn't really trying to be generous or whatever? Don't see any reason why he'd want to stir things up on that front, even if he doesn't need the money from AGT. It's just baffling to me.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Sage Rat

I've only ever heard Howard Stern a few times while visiting my brother, so I'm not a fan or anything. You seem to be saying that he's a hypocrite because he claimed to have a strong marriage when really he didn't. But you also say that this is something he wrote two years before his marriage ended - and since most books take a year to publish, he probably wrote it three years before. Three years seems pretty sufficient for a relationship to change and I just googled and there doesn't seem to be any particular indication that he cheated on her.

I think you might be overthinking this.

No he is a hypocrite much more often than that. He railed constantly about people trying to silence and censor him. He fought against the FCC. He fought against other jocks. He fought against his own company. He paints himself as a champion of free speech. But behind the scenes anytime he felt threatened by any on air talent in the company he would run to Mel Karmazan behind the scenes and have a gag order put in place. He admitted to his hypocrisy on the Sean Hannity show when he was promoting his Sirius gig. I lost all respect for him then.

[Mangosteen]

Originally Posted by DKW

Oh, one more thing...what the heck was that flap with Jay Leno about? Something like, yes, Leno took a pay cut, but he wasn't really trying to be generous or whatever? Don't see any reason why he'd want to stir things up on that front, even if he doesn't need the money from AGT. It's just baffling to me.

Jay Leno has stolen ideas from Howard's show. Jay did this bit called "Jaywalking" where he'd have a guy on the street's of NYC ask people basic questions to see how dumb the people are. Howard did the same thing years before and Jay refuses to admit it wasn't his idea. Jay also "forces" some of his guests to do stunts before he will let them plug their latest projects. Another thing Howard has been doing for years. Still another rip off is Jay's bit of using a chicken to pick the winner of football games. Again, Howard did this years before.

Jay hired Studdering John right off of Howard's show. He never mentioned anything to Howard about wanting John to come work for him. Howard, being the nice boss that he is, told John he could go, but never will forgive Jay. And what did Jay first ask John to do for his show? Go down to the Red Carpet and ask celebrities goofy questions. Exactly what John did for the Howard Stern Show

Another thing. ANYONE that has not listened to Howard's show on a regular basis for a long period of time, (At the very least several months of listening to most of the show- 2 or 3 hours daily) has no idea what the show is really like. I so often hear people say that they hate Howard or that the show is sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. only to admit they have NEVER listened to the show. They say they heard about it or read about from other people who also probably aren't regular listeners. If you don't want to listen to the show, that's fine with Howard. He often tells people that they are forbidden to listen anymore when they call and complain about something that happened on the show.

Almost from his beginning on radio, Howard has had a huge audience. People today actually pay to hear him on Sirius. What other radio personality could bring millions of listeners to Sirius and virtually destroy XM? Siruis gave him a 500 million Dollar contract and they thought so highly of him and thought it was such a good deal for them that they renewed his contract at the end of the 5 year agreement.

I'm not saying everything that Howard does is funny or entertaining. I thought the Miss Butterface Contest was over the line, but for the most part I think he's head and shoulders over anyone other entertainer in radio and make my work day go faster.

[Mangosteen]

Originally Posted by Loach

No he is a hypocrite much more often than that. He railed constantly about people trying to silence and censor him. He fought against the FCC. He fought against other jocks. He fought against his own company. He paints himself as a champion of free speech. But behind the scenes anytime he felt threatened by any on air talent in the company he would run to Mel Karmazan behind the scenes and have a gag order put in place. He admitted to his hypocrisy on the Sean Hannity show when he was promoting his Sirius gig. I lost all respect for him then.

What "air talent" could ever threaten Stern? Bubba the Love Sponge, Don Imus, Murray the K? What exactly did he say to Sean?

[Mangosteen]

Originally Posted by BigT

No, Stern was not judged incorrectly. He deliberately chose an adversarial persona for his show, even though he's really not like that. The point was likely to capture the people who really felt that way as an audience, a group of people who didn't have anyone at the time. Over the years, more of his real personality leaked in, to the point that he's generally okay.


Plus, he's being heavily censored on TV. And he was heavily depressed when he first started, and depressed people like to lash out.

Stern is not being censored on TV. He's been on TV before and knows not to curse or talk about a female's contestant's boobs. He is censoring himself, he's not stupid.

NBC tried to get Howard to stop bad mouthing Jay Leno on his radio show, and Howard's response was to tell NBC to back off and then he ripped into Jay more. NBC, (or anyone else) is not going censor Howard.

Why do you think he was depressed when he first started at AGT? I heard his radio show at the time and he was clearly happy and up beat about the whole AGT experience. He's "lashing out" ??? When, where?

[Lazlo Hapsburg]

Mangosteen,

Excellent posts. I enjoyed them very much.

My only comment is this:

Perhaps the reason Howard hates the term "shock jock" is because when people here him called that name, they decide he is sexist and racist and they hate him - all without ever listening to his show.

No wonder he hates that name.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Mangosteen

Jay Leno has stolen ideas from Howard's show. Jay did this bit called "Jaywalking" where he'd have a guy on the street's of NYC ask people basic questions to see how dumb the people are. Howard did the same thing years before and Jay refuses to admit it wasn't his idea. Jay also "forces" some of his guests to do stunts before he will let them plug their latest projects. Another thing Howard has been doing for years. Still another rip off is Jay's bit of using a chicken to pick the winner of football games. Again, Howard did this years before.

Jay hired Studdering John right off of Howard's show. He never mentioned anything to Howard about wanting John to come work for him. Howard, being the nice boss that he is, told John he could go, but never will forgive Jay. And what did Jay first ask John to do for his show? Go down to the Red Carpet and ask celebrities goofy questions. Exactly what John did for the Howard Stern Show

Another thing. ANYONE that has not listened to Howard's show on a regular basis for a long period of time, (At the very least several months of listening to most of the show- 2 or 3 hours daily) has no idea what the show is really like. I so often hear people say that they hate Howard or that the show is sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. only to admit they have NEVER listened to the show. They say they heard about it or read about from other people who also probably aren't regular listeners. If you don't want to listen to the show, that's fine with Howard. He often tells people that they are forbidden to listen anymore when they call and complain about something that happened on the show.

Almost from his beginning on radio, Howard has had a huge audience. People today actually pay to hear him on Sirius. What other radio personality could bring millions of listeners to Sirius and virtually destroy XM? Siruis gave him a 500 million Dollar contract and they thought so highly of him and thought it was such a good deal for them that they renewed his contract at the end of the 5 year agreement.

I'm not saying everything that Howard does is funny or entertaining. I thought the Miss Butterface Contest was over the line, but for the most part I think he's head and shoulders over anyone other entertainer in radio and make my work day go faster.

Well that's just more Stern hyperbole. He in no way invented any of that. Most of that stuff was done by Steve Allen. Stern does what he does very well. He pushed the envelope on content. But pretty much everything he did has it's roots or was taken directly from someone else. Stern's biggest talent is self promotion. Don't believe the hype. And the Leno thing has more to do with the fact that Leno refused to have Stern back on. Stern pulled a stunt with having a couple of girls making out when he was on with Leno. Leno won't have him on again. Stern got pissy. Simple as that.

[Loach]

Originally Posted by Mangosteen

What "air talent" could ever threaten Stern? Bubba the Love Sponge, Don Imus, Murray the K? What exactly did he say to Sean?

It doesn't matter if they are in direct competition or not. The interview was a few years ago so I don't remember it all. But hannity asked him if he went to Mel Karmazin and bitched about Opie and Anthony and had Mel put a gag order on them. Stern admitted that he did. Hannity asked him if he was a hypocrite since he pretends to be an advocate of anything should go free speech. Stern admitted that he was a hypocrite. This was a show working for the same company and not competing for the same time slot. He is an advocate for free speech when it's him talking but when it's someone else he's not. His personal life is off limits except in the most superficial way but he rips apart others personal lives on the air without a problem.

I went from being a huge can't miss a show fan for decades to not being able to stand him. It helps that he is only phoning in the shows a couple times a week. As for AGT I wouldn't be watching anyway. I don't like those sorts of shows.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by Loach

It doesn't matter if they are in direct competition or not. The interview was a few years ago so I don't remember it all. But hannity asked him if he went to Mel Karmazin and bitched about Opie and Anthony and had Mel put a gag order on them. Stern admitted that he did. Hannity asked him if he was a hypocrite since he pretends to be an advocate of anything should go free speech. Stern admitted that he was a hypocrite.

I just watched the interview on Youtube and I didn't catch any of that. To be fair, I wasn't listening intently the entire time, so maybe I missed something, but I didn't catch a hint of any of that.

[Mangosteen]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

I just watched the interview on Youtube and I didn't catch any of that. To be fair, I wasn't listening intently the entire time, so maybe I missed something, but I didn't catch a hint of any of that.

Same here. Listened to all 3 parts. Nuthin' about Opey and Anthony or Howard admitting to be a hypocrite.

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by Mangosteen

Same here. Listened to all 3 parts. Nuthin' about Opey and Anthony or Howard admitting to be a hypocrite.

Glad it wasn't just me. Was there another interview it was in perhaps, Loach?

[edwards_beard]

Originally Posted by Red Barchetta

I just watched the interview on Youtube and I didn't catch any of that. To be fair, I wasn't listening intently the entire time, so maybe I missed something, but I didn't catch a hint of any of that.

Here you go

[Red Barchetta]

Originally Posted by edwards_beard

Here you go

Ahh, in was in his radio show. Thanks.