Elementary: New CBS Sherlock Series [Season 1 thread]

[Infovore]

Did anybody else find the very blatant Microsoft Surface product placement to be really annoying? Especially given that Holmes up until now has been using iPhones and Macs (not sure whether he had an iPad before or not). I looked for, and found, the big "sponsored by Microsoft" notice in the credits.

It wouldn't have been quite so annoying if they hadn't focused lovingly on him clicking out the "kickstand" or attaching the keyboard like they do in the commercials.

[well he's back]

Yes, I found that bit with the "Surface" tablet so annoying I started a thread about product placements on TV about it. And I may start watching Scandal instead (which my daughter keeps insisting is very compelling).

[Irishman]

I spotted it. Didn't think it was horrendous, but was a tad obvious.

I liked this episode for getting Sherlock and Watson to bring down the walls a bit and start connecting more.

[Misnomer]

I think the product placement bothered me more than it might have otherwise because I'd just seen an extended Surface commercial in the form of last week's episode of Suburgatory. That one was way more blatant/annoying, but I was surprised and disappointed to see it happen again during Elementary.

[SenorBeef]

I was only half paying attention when I watched this, so maybe I missed something, but didn't early on in this episode, after they catch the guy who actually does the killing, he starts saying "if I give up who paid me, I can get a deal, right?" and he starts talking and they cut away. The guy was going to reveal the whole mystery right there, and it's never addressed. Did theyj ust drop it completely?

[simster]

Originally Posted by SenorBeef

I was only half paying attention when I watched this, so maybe I missed something, but didn't early on in this episode, after they catch the guy who actually does the killing, he starts saying "if I give up who paid me, I can get a deal, right?" and he starts talking and they cut away. The guy was going to reveal the whole mystery right there, and it's never addressed. Did theyj ust drop it completely?

He didn't have a name - but he had teh contacts from his cell phone - which led to the burner phone in the boyfriends apartment.

He really didn't have any identifying information other than to say he didn't do it of his own volition.

[Irishman]

He had a contact cell phone number, that they traced to a phone they found at the assistant's house, and the assistant confessed because he thought the wife did it....

Basically, the point of that scene was to tell us that he pulled the trigger, but it was a contract hit.

[ftg]

Finally a significant change in form. About time.

Horrible product placement. Holmes is a guy who picks locks and plays a violin. He's going to be a Surface (with keyboard!) user?

I wonder what's going on with Aidan Quinn's character. Hardly used at all in the last few episodes and nothing regarding his old relationship with Holmes. Isn't he supposed to be one of the 3 main characters?

The "relationship" between Holmes and Watson is still struggling. (Don't want a "will they or won't they" thing to happen, of course.) But they aren't giving Liu a real Watson-like character development. Dr. Watson worked by being the person Holmes bounced ideas off of. Even if Watson didn't directly help, thinking out loud to another person is a great way to solve problems. I've been hoping that the adversarial aspect would eventually go away.

[JSexton]

And this week, no mention of her theoretically leaving soon and him needing to find a sponsor. Maybe these are being broadcast slightly out of order?

[deltasigma]

Hmmm. I think did a pretty thorough google search and this is the only thread for this show. I was surprised to see that the last entry was from December as there were 2 episodes in January including one where Moriarty was introduced, at least indirectly. That episode, "M.", was really impressive I thought and cleaned up a loose end that might have been bothering some fans.

So far I more or less like the way the characters are being developed. I think they've gone a little overboard on Sherlock's flaws but when he finally ascents to some of Watson's prodding, it comes across as genuine.

[ftg]

Originally Posted by JSexton

And this week, no mention of her theoretically leaving soon and him needing to find a sponsor. Maybe these are being broadcast slightly out of order?

Watson discussed with her therapist how she was now working "off the clock" as Sherlock's sobriety watcher. So officially over but she is continuing to work for free. Why Sherlock wouldn't know this and call her out on it is unexplained.

The promo for the Superb**l episode suggests she is going to be more directly involved as his junior crime fighter. Overdue.

Reminder for DVR users: Set a wide window for recording it. Who knows when it will actually start/end. (I hate when they do this.)

Pretty poor episode. The "You don't work for the NYPD so go away." part didn't work. The police don't really tolerate interference at this level. And the idea that a guy smart enough to be on a war games panel but dumb enough to think that only a small number of people would see its mega-scary report was too much.

At least Aidan Quinn was sort of a character again. Still needs to be better integrated into the show. E.g., he needs a fuller backstory.

[Tangent]

Originally Posted by ftg

The promo for the Superb**l episode

Why the censored spelling of Superbowl?

[ftg]

Originally Posted by Tangent

Why the censored spelling of Superbowl?

Making fun of the NFL's over-exuberance in forbidding people from using the name of the Big Game. It's like among computer geeks who used to use "U**x" due to AT&T sending out cease and desist letters to anyone that used "Unix" regardless of context.

[The Controvert]

Originally Posted by ftg

At least Aidan Quinn was sort of a character again. Still needs to be better integrated into the show. E.g., he needs a fuller backstory.

I don't know if "guy who sucker punches people in the gut to prove a point" is the sort of backstory I like.

[Tangent]

Originally Posted by ftg

Making fun of the NFL's over-exuberance in forbidding people from using the name of the Big Game.

Ah, I wasn't aware.

[Irishman]

Originally Posted by ftg

Watson discussed with her therapist how she was now working "off the clock" as Sherlock's sobriety watcher. So officially over but she is continuing to work for free. Why Sherlock wouldn't know this and call her out on it is unexplained.

At the end of last episode, she asked Holmes's dad if she could continue, and he said he wasn't going to pay her any more. She then told Holmes that her father agreed to pay her. So either he didn't catch her lie, or else he's waiting to pounce at some inopportune moment.

Pretty poor episode. The "You don't work for the NYPD so go away." part didn't work. The police don't really tolerate interference at this level. And the idea that a guy smart enough to be on a war games panel but dumb enough to think that only a small number of people would see its mega-scary report was too much.

It was a bit much. Yeah, the only people who will ever see that result are the 5 people that thought it up and the one liaison who reviewed their work.

Originally Posted by The Controvert

I don't know if "guy who sucker punches people in the gut to prove a point" is the sort of backstory I like.

What if the point is that the person needs a punch in the gut?

[deltasigma]

Originally Posted by Irishman

What if the point is that the person needs a punch in the gut?

Maybe I'm the only one, but I completely agree with Holmes and were I in the same situation and had the same abilities, I think I might very well favor a similar approach. If I didn't though, it wouldn't be because of antiquated notion of honor or morality which seems to be the animus behind Gregson's suspension of Holmes.

Similarly, I would be loathe to offer an ersatz apology which I knew the person to whom I was giving it would be insulted by rather than assuaged.

Certainly Holmes takes douchery to whole other level, but unlike most DB's, he has quite a bit to back it up. And while that may not justify his patronizing, condescending and often infuriating attitude, it has to be considered when deciding, as in this episode, if he's worth tolerating.

[GuanoLad]

I have grown to like this show, but apart from a loose and sparse sprinkling of character names it really has nothing at all to do with Sherlock Holmes. They really shouldn't have bothered with the association.

[well he's back]

I'm so disappointed that they didn't keep that lock-picker/car stealer guy from the AA meeting in an earlier episode. I think having him as a recurring character would really have added to the show.

[ftg]

Just watched the post-S***r Bowl episode, The Deductionist. Some change of pace. The Big Bad was known from the start, the object was to find him, which of course entailed figuring out his motivation, etc. Nice variation. The show has really needed it.

A bit predictable about the surgery and the sister's role.

Hated the profiler. And not just because she was Holmes' rival, etc. But terrible actor, terrible character, very shallowly written. I was rooting for her to die.

Nice to see some development of Watson's investigative skills. Looking forward to more of that.

The Holmes backstory filler was crap. A lot of backstory to the backstory is needed to really explain anything.

The sister looked familiar. Checking IMDb: Jessica Hecht was Gretchen on Breaking Bad and Ross' ex-wife's partner on Friends.

[well he's back]

I didn't see the post Super bowl episode, but last night's (Feb 7) was probably the best episode, or one of the best, so far.

[Infovore]

Originally Posted by well he's back

I didn't see the post Super bowl episode, but last night's (Feb 7) was probably the best episode, or one of the best, so far.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty good too. I notice the Surface made another appearance, but at least he didn't fondle it this time, and called it "my tablet" instead of "my Surface" or "My Microsoft(tm) Surface(tm) Tablet." :P (yeah, okay, facetious, but still...)

[deltasigma]

Originally Posted by Infovore

Yeah, I thought it was pretty good too. I notice the Surface made another appearance, but at least he didn't fondle it this time, and called it "my tablet" instead of "my Surface" or "My Microsoft(tm) Surface(tm) Tablet." :P (yeah, okay, facetious, but still...)

Damn, product placement has become so universal now that I don't even notice. As oxymoronic as it sounds, it's become a sort of 'in your face' form of subliminal advertising.

I was wondering what possessed me to buy that 6 pack of Dr. Pepper the last time I was shopping.

[astorian]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

I have grown to like this show, but apart from a loose and sparse sprinkling of character names it really has nothing at all to do with Sherlock Holmes. They really shouldn't have bothered with the association.

I'm with you- the few times I've watched the show, I've liked it, but I DON'T think the leads bear any real resemblance to anyone I read about in Arthur Conan Doyle's stories.

I enjoy the show more when I just pretend they're entirely new characters.

[Seanette]

Originally Posted by astorian

I'm with you- the few times I've watched the show, I've liked it, but I DON'T think the leads bear any real resemblance to anyone I read about in Arthur Conan Doyle's stories.

I enjoy the show more when I just pretend they're entirely new characters.

Makes sense that they would be different people, most of them being American and all raised in a different time and culture from what Doyle wrote about.

[DMark]

Still waiting for the all-clever Sherlock to figure out that Watson is no longer on daddy's payroll and working off the books. I would have assumed his recent phone call to dear old dad would have confirmed this, but apparently this little nugget of info is either not yet known or Sherlock is waiting for the right moment to bring it up?

[Infovore]

Originally Posted by DMark

Still waiting for the all-clever Sherlock to figure out that Watson is no longer on daddy's payroll and working off the books. I would have assumed his recent phone call to dear old dad would have confirmed this, but apparently this little nugget of info is either not yet known or Sherlock is waiting for the right moment to bring it up?

I'm guessing he's already figured out but for whatever reasons of his own just hasn't said anything about it yet. Maybe because he obviously likes Watson and considers her a valuable ally in his work, so he's afraid if he lets on he knows, he'll lose her. Dunno. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

[Seanette]

Originally Posted by Infovore

I'm guessing he's already figured out but for whatever reasons of his own just hasn't said anything about it yet. Maybe because he obviously likes Watson and considers her a valuable ally in his work, so he's afraid if he lets on he knows, he'll lose her. Dunno. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I wonder how long she's going to be able to cover her lack of income.

[StarvingButStrong]

Well, she'll no longer be paying rent on an apartment.

[deltasigma]

I think the fact that Watson let the super off so easily - by just demanding he pay for moving her stuff into storage - indicates that this was a convenient excuse for doing what she wanted to do anyway. And I think on some level she realizes that even if she may not be prepared to consciously admit it. If that's what's going on, that's the sort of complexity that I don't think you see that often in characters on tv serials.

As for Holmes, I think he knows his father well enough that he suspected Watson was full of shit as soon as she told him that his father agreed to extend her contract just based her "concerns." I have no idea what would have possessed the father to hire her in the first place but the impression I get is that his motivations aren't really tied to Holmes' well-being.

[Seanette]

Keep in mind, about all we know about the father comes from his son, who is obviously not an entirely reliable narrator, given his obvious emotional issues about that relationship.

[Irishman]

I agree Holmes's issues with his father color his perceptions, but I also think that from Holmes's tone he was fairly certain that Watson was lying when she said his father was paying her to remain. I think he figured she needed the cover so he let her get away with it. Don't know why he hasn't busted her on it yet, just waiting for the right time?

Also wonder on Holmes's father's motivations for hiring Watson in the first place. "It's the way things are done"? He's satisfied the form so now doesn't need to continue paying for it?

[deltasigma]

Irishman: Something I realized in reading your post; it's probably more than a coincidence that Holmes was shipped off to the US to do his rehab, especially if preserving appearances was the primary motivation of his father. Either that, or he was exiled to the US first and then forced to go into rehab; I'm still a little unclear on that point.

[astorian]

Originally Posted by Seanette

Makes sense that they would be different people, most of them being American and all raised in a different time and culture from what Doyle wrote about.

Right- so different that the writers might just as well have started from scratch, and not bothered pretending their characters were Holmes and Watson.

I remember that, years ago, Robert B. Parker said Spenser for Hire wasn't a bad show (he liked Avery Brooks as Hawk a lot), but that he didn't think it had anything to do with the characters who appeared in his books. He said it was easier for him to enjoy if he just pretended Robert Urich was playing a wholly different detective, like Rockford or Magnum.

Same principle applies- I like the show on its own, but it's easier to enjoy if I pretend these are entirely new characters with no connection to Doyle.

[SenorBeef]

Oh god the gun talk on this episode was unbearably stupid. First off, they identify the shooter as having a "semiautomatic mp5", and it makes me wonder when the media fucks this one up - deliberately or accidentally - what the fuck they think "semi" means. Do they think it means super duper automatic?

But he goes further. "I can tell from the pattern of the holes that the bullets were fired in three round bursts" (semi-automatic 3 round bursts I'm sure) "from a rifled barrel, as opposed to a smooth bore, which suggests that whoever is behind the attack has access to high level firearm augmentation"

.......... Really? You've already identified the weapon as a "semi-automatic mp5", but you think the default state of such a thing is to be smooth bored and requires high level gunsmithing skills to install a rifled barrel?

To those of you who don't know, pretty much all guns made since the mid 1860s had rifled barrels. So this is sort of like saying "I can tell from the tire treads that this car used gasoline, and doesn't run on steam power, so our suspect must be an expert mechanic to have modified his car in this way" - actually, it's worse than that, since they specifically identified the weapon and mislabelled it as semi-automatic. So it's more like "I can tell from the tire tracks that this came from a 600 horsepower Ford Fiesta. But these tracks clearly came from a gasoline powered vehicle, not a steam powered one like you'd expect a Ford Fiesta to be, so our suspect must be an expert mechanic with access to car modifying facilities"

I'm only 5 minutes into it. I wonder if it gets worse from here.

[GuanoLad]

Originally Posted by Irishman

I agree Holmes's issues with his father color his perceptions, but I also think that from Holmes's tone he was fairly certain that Watson was lying when she said his father was paying her to remain.

Originally Posted by DMark

I would have assumed his recent phone call to dear old dad would have confirmed this, but apparently this little nugget of info is either not yet known or Sherlock is waiting for the right moment to bring it up?

Bam. You two are regular Sherlocks yourselves.

Sometimes Jonny Lee Miller's tics and expressions remind me of another actor. It's tickling the back of my mind, but I haven't figured it out yet, though I suspect he's also British and it's a deliberate emulation. I'll leap off my couch one day when I finally get it, I'm sure.

[well he's back]

totally ridiculous observation - this role is the first time I could imagine Jonny Lee Miller and Angelina Jolie being a couple (they were married at one time). In his previous roles I would think "That has to be a mistake; can't imagine those two together." Well now I can.
end totally ridiculous observation

[Infovore]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

Sometimes Jonny Lee Miller's tics and expressions remind me of another actor.

He frowns so much, he's starting to remind me of Grumpy Cat. I'm not kidding.

I love the show, but he's getting almost as bad, tic-wise, as Tim Roth on "Lie To Me" (another show I liked a lot, but those tics sure were distracting!)

[simster]

Originally Posted by Infovore

He frowns so much, he's starting to remind me of Grumpy Cat. I'm not kidding.

I love the show, but he's getting almost as bad, tic-wise, as Tim Roth on "Lie To Me" (another show I liked a lot, but those tics sure were distracting!)

I was thinking he was taking cues from the Monk....

[The Other Waldo Pepper]

Originally Posted by GuanoLad

Sometimes Jonny Lee Miller's tics and expressions remind me of another actor.

Michael Keaton.

[deltasigma]

Well, the other shoe was finally dropped regarding Watson's status which I think went really well.

SPOILER:

Holmes handled it with uncharacteristic sensitivity and insight I thought and wasn't at all shy about revealing his own feelings. I was a little surprised at how uneventful the reveal went but I have to say I'm really pleased at how the relationship is developing.

[wonderlust]

I just love this series, the lead characters, and the chemistry between them. I really hope it gets picked up for another season.

[twickster]

I missed a few weeks -- what's the deal now? Officially roommates, apparently -- what's Joan's employment status?

[Death of Rats]

Joan is going to be a paid apprentice/assistant with room and board and a stipend as compensation.

[twickster]

Ah, makes sense -- thanks.

[DMark]

Originally Posted by wonderlust

I just love this series, the lead characters, and the chemistry between them. I really hope it gets picked up for another season.

Yep - it has been renewed for another season.

[wonderlust]

Good news! I hope Pam becomes a regular too.

[Tess]

Originally Posted by deltasigma

Irishman: Something I realized in reading your post; it's probably more than a coincidence that Holmes was shipped off to the US to do his rehab, especially if preserving appearances was the primary motivation of his father. Either that, or he was exiled to the US first and then forced to go into rehab; I'm still a little unclear on that point.

Alistair mentioned a pre-rehab* Holmes showing up at his door in bad shape and I got the impression Alistair's been living in the US for at least a few years.



*I can't find the line but remember him saying it happened "months ago."

[Tangent]

Really enjoying this show.

It was nice to see Jill Flint playing the robber who was arrested at the hospital. She played Jill Casey on Royal Pains.

[Locrian]

I work on this show in post, and it's one of my favorites. "Snow Angels" was a fun episode, I liked Pam too.

I was pissed that Sherlock didn't tell us where "stakeout" came from, even though Watson says, "No, but I bet Im gonna find out right now..." (It's when landscapers measured out an area to build on using stakes.)

SPOILER:

And I liked the cops pretending about the stabbing in the cells in order to catch Denise, the FEMA agent, as the accomplice.

Also when Sherlock said he admired the robbery plan and if there wasn't a murder involved with it, he'd have half a mind to let them go. Heh heh.