Is a Wheelchair a Turn-off?

[AClockworkMelon]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Actually, no, that's not quite it. Let me put it this way: let's say objectively (for the sake of this. Discussion) that without seeing the chair, most woman would rate me as an 8 or even 9. Now put the chair back into the picture, how likely is it that I could attract the eye of someone "in my league", based on that superficial numerical ranking alone (I'm thinking dating sites here)?

You're like a disabled Tucker Max.

[Helena330]

Originally Posted by elbows

a wheelchair wouldn't matter for me.

But a guy only interested in the opinions of, "a 9 or a 10"?

So you don't want to be callously eliminated from the dating pool by something such as a chair, which isn't who you are, or all you are. Yet you eliminate anyone not a 9/10 without recognizing it's not who they are, or all they are?

It's not the wheelchair that's doing the offputting, in my humble opinion.

bingo.

[DigitalC]

The wheelchair or the handicap in itself wouldn't be the issue really, the extremely skinny legs would be a turn off.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Helena330

bingo.

Can people please stop responding to this post (not Helena's but the one to which she is responding)? It is completely off base and a misreading of the OP and subsequent posts of mine.

[MeanOldLady]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Actually, no, that's not quite it. Let me put it this way: let's say objectively (for the sake of this. Discussion) that without seeing the chair, most woman would rate me as an 8 or even 9. Now put the chair back into the picture, how likely is it that I could attract the eye of someone "in my league", based on that superficial numerical ranking alone (I'm thinking dating sites here)?

So why didn't you say so? While that still sounds a lot like "Can I expect to get hot chicks?" that is a different question than what you asked, which is "Hot ladies, how do you feel about dudes in wheelchairs?"Actually, no, it's the same thing.

Originally Posted by AClockworkMelon

You're like a disabled Tucker Max.

^Now that right there is some funny shit, yo.

[Ambivalid]

R

Originally Posted by DigitalC

The wheelchair or the handicap in itself wouldn't be the issue really, the extremely skinny legs would be a turn off.

Ok, I'm glad you said this. While I have extreme atrophy that has resulted in extremely skinny legs, many spinal cord injuries do not result in such atrophy. Spacticity, which is involuntary muscle spasms below the injury level, is a very common side effect to most SCIs that results in the preservation of muscle mass to the lower body. I don't suffer from spacticity, therefore I don't get the "silver lining" of the problematic issue, either. Many people who have SCI and use chairs have legs that look pretty much just like that of an able-bodied person (albeit not an athlete).

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by MeanOldLady

So why didn't you say so? While that still sounds a lot like "Can I expect to get hot chicks?" that is a different question than what you asked, which is "Hot ladies, how do you feel about dudes in wheelchairs?"Actually, no, it's the same thing.

Well, not quite the same thing, hence my wording. And I often times make the mistake of not fully articulating myself at the outset, making it necessary to backtrack and clarify. This has netted me accusations of dishonesty and after-the-fact story changing, when all I've ever been guilty of is lazy and poorly-composed writing. I feel that I've made improvements over my time here, though.

[Siam Sam]

I can honestly say I would never date a man in a wheelchair. Or who has a pronounced limp.

However, if a billionaire started giving me the eye, I might rethink my sexuality.

[Stendhal Syndrome]

The disabled Tucker Max comment cracked me up! Hahahaha.

I rate myself a 11.
So, Jaime, to answer your question, I wouldn't consider dating a guy in a wheelchair.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Stendhal Syndrome

The disabled Tucker Max comment cracked me up! Hahahaha.

I rate myself a 11.
So, Jaime, to answer your question, I wouldn't consider dating a guy in a wheelchair.

Look, in all seriousness, just so there are no misconceptions, if I had to rate myself in attraactiveness, IRL, i'd give myself a high 7. Everything else being discussed here is purely hypothetical and the higher-ends of the attractiveness scale are used because they are most illustrative of the issues.

[fisha]

I don't get all the Jamie hate.. He had a rough start here, but I think he's turned into a good member. Still has a bit of a chip on his shoulder, but I don't blame him. He's a good shit.

One of my competitors was in a car accident a couple years back, ended up in a wheelchair for at least a couple of years, but is now out of it. Very good looking guy, type A salesman. Even when he was in the chair, I'd flirt with him, talk to him like I would any other guy that was my competition. Just like I would want to be treated.

But I wouldn't look at him for a long term partner, or father of my children. It'd take a long time for me to forget that you had limitations, to not see them.

It must be terribly frustrating.

[Atakapa]

If it was the result of accident or injury, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. Same with missing hands, fingers, legs, etc. If it was genetic or otherwise capable of being passed on to offspring; instant dealbreaker.

[Ellen Cherry]

Originally Posted by colander

For realz. Whines about how you can't snag Jessica Alba are pretty gauche even when they're not coming from someone who craps their drawers on the weekly.

Don't be a jerk.

[elbows]

Ugh, I get so sick of your combative attitude.

I was not, in anyway whatsoever trying to be combative. I was simply offering my honest view of your inquiry and following your instructions;

And please, don't let the idea of "being a shallow or bad person" stop you from being honest.

If you don't really want honesty, don't ask for it, in future. It will save your tender ego from injury.

[delphica]

I don't know, it would depend on a lot.

A while back, I had one of those friendly work crushes on a guy who used a wheelchair. Neither one of us was on the market at the time, so I don't know how the wheelchair would have factored into it if it had actually been a situation where I had to think about a potential relationship. But the wheelchair wasn't a problem when it came to thinking things like "hey, that dude is pretty attractive" and "omg, if I had known that guy was going to be in this meeting, I wouldn't have worn this sweater that makes me look like a hobbit!"

It might be a factor that I have an uncle who was in a serious accident, and when I was a little kid, he used braces/crutches about 90% of the time, and a chair for things like an all-day trip to an amusement park. As he got older, and chronic problems related to his injuries continued to become more severe, that gradually flipped to about 90% use of a wheelchair, so I think I'm used to things like walking around town with someone in a wheelchair, or going to places like sporting events or restaurants and navigating what's going on there. I get that hanging out with your uncle is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than dating someone, but it's a start, at least.

Based on that, my advice is to hang around other guys who use wheelchairs, and then see if they have sisters who are a 9 or a 10.

[StuffLikeThatThere]

Po

[StuffLikeThatThere]

Ignore me. Stupid phone. Sorry.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by elbows

I was not, in anyway whatsoever trying to be combative. I was simply offering my honest view of your inquiry and following your instructions;



If you don't really want honesty, don't ask for it, in future. It will save your tender ego from injury.

Look lady, you misread my OP, so what you posted wasn't even relevant. I tried explaining this in multiple follow-up posts, but apparently you have chosen to ignore them (conveniently).

And I've noticed you, not just in relation to me and my posts, but in relation to everybody and their posts; you just HAVE to find fault and be judgmental in some way. It gets tiring just to read.

[Broomstick]

Getting away from the specific guy in a wheelchair (Jaimie) to what is, I think, the true essence of his OP which is about guys in wheelchairs in general....

For me the chair would be a con but not a dealbreaker. I wouldn't be terribly worried about it being a "big deal" or a lot of effort on my part as presumably said gentleman would either be able to care for himself or already have appropriate assistance. He would have to be able to tolerate me doing things for which a wheelchair may be an inconvenience or a major obstacle because I don't see where his limitations would need to be my limitations (or vice versa, as I'm not physically perfect, either).

He would, of course, have to meet my other criteria - bodily hygiene, general attractiveness, personality, etc.

Actually, there are times I wish my current SO would use a chair - while he can ambulate unassisted he's quite slow and tires much quicker than the norm. Crowds can be hair-raising, as his balance isn't great due to SCI issues and I do worry about him tripping/falling and getting trampled. Anything involving a lot of walking would be a heck of a lot easier if he'd use a scooter but... well... man doesn't want to and I won't force him unless truly necessary.

So I'd say in some cases failure to use a wheelchair might be more of a dealbreaker because while I'm willing to work around a disability I wouldn't tolerate someone who'd refuse tech that would make them more mobile. There's a point at which you should just admit you need at least that level of help.

[Brynda]

Look, we all have a certain "value" as partners. What is of-putting to me about Ambivalid's position in this thread is that he seems to think only physical attractiveness matters in terms of value. furthermore, he seems pissed that he is "undervalued" because he uses a wheelchair. For most adults, other factors such as personality, values, etc. all matter in determining someone's value as a partner, along with children, age, income or wealth, and health. In other words, yor dating league isn't just physical attractiveness.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Brynda

Look, we all have a certain "value" as partners. What is of-putting to me about Ambivalid's position in this thread is that he seems to think only physical attractiveness matters in terms of value. furthermore, he seems pissed that he is "undervalued" because he uses a wheelchair. For most adults, other factors such as personality, values, etc. all matter in determining someone's value as a partner, along with children, age, income or wealth, and health. In other words, yor dating league isn't just physical attractiveness.

OF COURSE I don't think physical attractiveness is the only (or even the most) important aspect of a relationship. If that is how you are reading it, I don't know what to say.

[AClockworkMelon]

What he's saying is, if he had to pick between a 10 and a 9 with a great personality it'd be a really hard choice for him, OK?

[Brynda]

But what if it turned out the 10 had fake boobs? Would the 9 win?

hey, dude, I am reading it that way cause that's how it is written! Only 9 s and 10s need apply!

[DataX]

I'm not sure what all the hate is about either. I will say that this quote:

I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with saying people in wheelchairs just aren't attractive and you could not see yourself in a relationship with that person

seems odd to me.

I am not interested in dating a woman in a wheelchair. And it has nothing to do with it making her less attractive. To me - I am pretty sure when I saw her - I would see her just as attractive as any other woman sitting down. I also would have no desire to leave a girlfriend if she became disabled after we started going out (ok I am talking about still appears able bodied except for the chair). Does that make 100% sense, perhaps not - but it's how I feel.

I just don't get why you phrased it like that. Do you find women in wheel chairs less attractive?

As someone else mentioned - most women I have seen ARE less attractive, but that may be because they aren't able to exercise/do their makeup, but I am 99% sure that if you have photos of just their face - others would think the same thing. I have seen perfectly good looking women in wheelchairs as well. Usually they are younger. Yes I know that kind of makes me sound like a pig

Maybe it is different for women - and hell for all I know other guys feel differently, but I in no way shape or form find the wheelchair to make a woman less attractive (as in trick me by putting a normal attractive woman in a wheelchair and tell me she is disabled.

[faithfool]

Let's get all the pertinent details out of the way...... a bazillion years ago, I might've cleaned up to a solid 6. These days, after many kinds of illnesses that I've dealt with, I'd be happy to get on the rankings board. That said, I used to be incredibly naive about dating and thought that love conquers all, so almost no one that caught my fancy was off the table. Broke, shorter than me, not so attractive, you name it, I was game if I liked them well enough. And I think if I were still on the market now, I'd feel much the same way, especially if we were friends first.

But I've learned a few things over the years. Having been the only caretaker during my husband's medical issues for going on over two years, that sort of thing is a huge commitment to make. Plus, I can be a huge horndog, so I believe going *into* a relationship that would be important. However, I could see me giving it the old college try anyway and attempting to not let a lack of sex complicate things or scare me away. But ideally, it would give me pause just from the sheer magnitude of what all would be involved.

Overall and to answer more specifically, I think your handsome, passionate and have proven yourself as capable of growing. That would be enough for me to at least sidle up to you at some place we frequent together and try to feel you out to see if you'd be interested. What happened after that would mainly be up to both our constitutions and desire.

[elbows]

Look lady, you misread my OP, so what you posted wasn't even relevant. I tried explaining this in multiple follow-up posts, but apparently you have chosen to ignore them (conveniently).

And I've noticed you, not just in relation to me and my posts, but in relation to everybody and their posts; you just HAVE to find fault and be judgmental in some way. It gets tiring just to read.

Please tell me what I misread, I'm not seeing it.
Or how what I posted wasn't relevant, it seems like I'm not alone in thinking it was spot on. I read every word of your explanations/rationalizations but they don't change that you're basically asking if 7+ hotness old you, is invisible to 9/10 hotness women, because of your chair.

It's a little rich for you to call anyone else combative, since you have proudly self identified yourself as an 'aggressive asshole' on this very board several times. Or to accuse another of being judgmental, when your OP is all about the pain of no longer being attractive to 'really hot' chicks, since you're in a chair. (And if you always find my every post 'so tiring to read' I suggest you skip them in future!)

I'm very sorry that I clearly hit a nerve, I was answering your OP, offering my opinion only. There was nothing, in the slightest combative in what I said, I'm sorry you feel the need to see it that way, simply because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Did you really imagine you could post a topic that heavily involved you rating yourself and potential dates for hotness, and not think someone would come by and mention that as long as you're stuck in being so judgmental of others appearances you're likely to feel like you are constantly being judged, entirely on appearance, as well?

No one was being at all combative, and I'm pretty sure you don't get to direct what posts people choose to respond to. I'm sorry I expressed an opinion that hit all your buttons and set you off. But I wasn't trying to, I was simply being honest, which you implored us to be.

My opinion was only that, there was no combative subtext, or judgment passing.

I once bartended with a guy who coached the city wheelchair basketball team, he'd come in and round us up to go to the games and cheer the guys on. They were a awesome bunch of guys and really appreciated the support. Of the entire team, probably only 2 or 3 did not have partners. A couple were married, one had a smoking hot girlfriend and one was a complete romeo. He was so charming and warm, we all loved him. And he got more action than the rest of the team combined, even the married guys. Because he was a real sweetheart inside, his girls always wanted to settle down with him but he was having too much fun playing the field!

And that romeo fellow was not nearly as handsome as you are, while athletic not nearly as buff/cut as you. On the other hand he also didn't proudly self identify as an 'aggressive asshole', or judge others/women entirely on appearance, so there's that.

The only people who care about whether an 9 is dating a 5 are thirteen year old girls, who can be overly judgmental when it comes to appearances. You want to judge others entirely on physical appearance/hotness but you don't want to be judged by that, because you're more than that.

Just not seeing how that idea is a misreading of your op, or not relevant, or combative. It's just a different view than the one you want to see reflected back at you.

[Brynda]

The only people who care about whether an 9 is dating a 5 are thirteen year old girls, who can be overly judgmental when it comes to appearances. You want to judge others entirely on physical appearance/hotness but you don't want to be judged by that, because you're more than that.

Exactly, exactly, exactly.

[Muffin]

Jamie is a 13 year old girl? Jamie is holding out for a 13 year old girl?

The mind boggles.

[Lightlystarched]

This is a very interesting question. My original thought was no - I'd not really be interested in a man in a wheelchair for a long-term relationship. But, honestly, if an interesting man with acceptable looks who happened to be in a wheelchair hit on me, I might just consider it for a short term flirtation or even a one-night thing. In fact, there might even be some perverse interest in seeing exactly how the evening might play out. That is totally shallow, right? That I'd want to "hit that" just for the experience? But there you go. And if the conversation were good, and the sex good, well, I'd probably be up for investing a little more time and maybe making it a real relationship.

So, I guess you have to advertise the chair as an adventure, not a drawback.

[Lightlystarched]

I don't really know your story, like how long you've had a chair or what got you there. But I think you need to be realistic that the chair will pull your sex rank down a good 1 to 2 points. Which is not that awful for a man, because there are things you can do to bring it back up - being physically fit is one way. Another is to be wealthy. The 9s and 10s will be interested no matter what if you have the cash.

Anyway, if you are used to pulling the attention of 8s and 9s, realistically the chair means you need to set your sights just a little bit lower. And that cute 7, who maybe you wouldn't have given a second glance to, might be a really interesting person who will rock your world.

[Rushgeekgirl]

No, a wheelchair is not a turn-off, but I doubt I'd be anything more than a 3. I'm not desperate tough, to be clear. My last SO of ten years was at least an 8.
It would be a bonus if they were unable or uninterested in sex.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Rushgeekgirl

It would be a bonus if they were unable or uninterested in sex.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by elbows

Please tell me what I misread, I'm not seeing it.
Or how what I posted wasn't relevant, it seems like I'm not alone in thinking it was spot on. I read every word of your explanations/rationalizations but they don't change that you're basically asking if 7+ hotness old you, is invisible to 9/10 hotness women, because of your chair.

It's a little rich for you to call anyone else combative, since you have proudly self identified yourself as an 'aggressive asshole' on this very board several times. Or to accuse another of being judgmental, when your OP is all about the pain of no longer being attractive to 'really hot' chicks, since you're in a chair. (And if you always find my every post 'so tiring to read' I suggest you skip them in future!)

I'm very sorry that I clearly hit a nerve, I was answering your OP, offering my opinion only. There was nothing, in the slightest combative in what I said, I'm sorry you feel the need to see it that way, simply because it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Did you really imagine you could post a topic that heavily involved you rating yourself and potential dates for hotness, and not think someone would come by and mention that as long as you're stuck in being so judgmental of others appearances you're likely to feel like you are constantly being judged, entirely on appearance, as well?

No one was being at all combative, and I'm pretty sure you don't get to direct what posts people choose to respond to. I'm sorry I expressed an opinion that hit all your buttons and set you off. But I wasn't trying to, I was simply being honest, which you implored us to be.

My opinion was only that, there was no combative subtext, or judgment passing.

I once bartended with a guy who coached the city wheelchair basketball team, he'd come in and round us up to go to the games and cheer the guys on. They were a awesome bunch of guys and really appreciated the support. Of the entire team, probably only 2 or 3 did not have partners. A couple were married, one had a smoking hot girlfriend and one was a complete romeo. He was so charming and warm, we all loved him. And he got more action than the rest of the team combined, even the married guys. Because he was a real sweetheart inside, his girls always wanted to settle down with him but he was having too much fun playing the field!

And that romeo fellow was not nearly as handsome as you are, while athletic not nearly as buff/cut as you. On the other hand he also didn't proudly self identify as an 'aggressive asshole', or judge others/women entirely on appearance, so there's that.

The only people who care about whether an 9 is dating a 5 are thirteen year old girls, who can be overly judgmental when it comes to appearances. You want to judge others entirely on physical appearance/hotness but you don't want to be judged by that, because you're more than that.

Just not seeing how that idea is a misreading of your op, or not relevant, or combative. It's just a different view than the one you want to see reflected back at you.

Mmkay thanks.

[Ambivalid]

Look I'm posting from my phone and I may not have always posted in the most clarifying light. THE ONLY POINT to my "9s and 10s" comment was to put the difficult dating experiences of those in wheelchairs in clear focus. To that section of the dating world, we are by and large invisible and not even on the radar-regardless of how "good looking" we are or any other characteristic (physical or otherwise, like personality). Now that's not to say that other, non "9-10" women don't behave the same way in relation to men in wheelchairs; its just not as "across the board". I will date anyone I am attracted to, I have no pre-conceived notions of what I "ought" to have.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Brynda

But what if it turned out the 10 had fake boobs? Would the 9 win?

hey, dude, I am reading it that way cause that's how it is written! Only 9 s and 10s need apply!

Keep reading then.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Mmkay thanks.

Ah, more timeless, classic Ambivalid.

When you don't get the answers you are hoping for, (in any thread you have ever participated in, be it your Parking-Lot Paladin routine or back when you were trying to hit on the late, great umkay) this has been your default attitude, every bit as predictable as the rooster at dawn.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know."

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

Ah, more timeless, classic Ambivalid.

When you don't get the answers you are hoping for, (in any thread you have ever participated in, be it your Parking-Lot Paladin routine or back when you were trying to hit on the late, great umkay) this has been your default attitude, every bit as predictable as the rooster at dawn.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know."

Did you happen to read what I was responding to? She is not simply giving an "opinion that I'm not hoping for" (whatever that means), she is having a discussion that I am NOT having.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

She is not simply giving an "opinion that I'm not hoping for" (whatever that means), she is having a discussion that I am NOT having.

It means that since you joined the SDMB, you have steadfastly refused to even consider the possibility that you and your combative, judgmental attitude are at the root of 95% of the "problems" (relationship and otherwise) that you constantly regale the Dopers with, in a transparent attempt to garner sympathy and/or to reassure yourself that you are right and everyone else in this wicked ol' world is wrong and probably out to get you to boot.

[colander]

Originally Posted by Ambivalid

Look I'm posting from my phone and I may not have always posted in the most clarifying light. THE ONLY POINT to my "9s and 10s" comment was to put the difficult dating experiences of those in wheelchairs in clear focus. To that section of the dating world, we are by and large invisible and not even on the radar-regardless of how "good looking" we are or any other characteristic (physical or otherwise, like personality). Now that's not to say that other, non "9-10" women don't behave the same way in relation to men in wheelchairs; its just not as "across the board". I will date anyone I am attracted to, I have no pre-conceived notions of what I "ought" to have.

Broheim. Fully 80% of the world's population is gonna have to settle for something less than a 9 or 10. Why do you think your situation is particularly deserving of sympathy?

[olivesmarch4th]

I'm like a 6 or 7 - like Rushgeekgirl, not desperate. Objectively my husband is maybe an 8 or 9 and comes from a long line of beautiful olive-skinned Italian people. I still don't know how the hell that happened.

I really could give a shit less if a guy is in a wheelchair. Really, I don't care. A hot dude is a hot dude. My definition of ''hot'' varies wildly based on the personality of the guy I'm into. I'm probably not the kind of girl whose opinion is going to be helpful, though, because I give even less of a shit about a man's ''objective'' attractiveness than I do about whether or not he's in a wheelchair. I've been with the same man since I was 19, though, so take it with a grain of salt.

I am also curious why, if you consider yourself a 7, you think your invisibility to 9s and 10s is due to your disability and not your appearance.

[MPB in Salt Lake]

Finally, I guess I should add that I don't think you are a terrible person or that the things that you want for yourself are forever out of your reach, it's just that you don't seem to be willing to take ANY advise, counsel or criticism (constructive or otherwise) that is offered your way with even the slightest amount of acceptance or possible introspection, instead treating both the message and messenger as mortal enemies.

In this thread, you clearly established parameters that made you sound shallow, judgmental and juvenile, and when this was pointed out to you, you again simply shut down and refused to even consider that you were the one off-base.

[elbows]

She is not simply giving an "opinion that I'm not hoping for" she is having a discussion that I am NOT having."

(Fingers in ears, La la la la la, la la la la!)

"You ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know."

Extremely well said! Truer words never spoken.

[Beastly Rotter]

Not until you do something about those dreadful tyres; cross-plys went out with the Ark, darling.

[Brynda]

Ok, you are theorizing that really hawt women ignore you because of your wheelchair, no matter what you do. Welcome to the big ole world, homey. Lots of people don't get the hottest wimmens, and they survive. A wheelchair, and the disability that landed you in one, hurts your chances in the marriage market, just like being poor, or a minority, or a million other things.

[Troppus]

There are hot but insecure women in the world who might appreciate the attention they'd receive because they are strolling alongside Murderball. So if you don't mind The Crazy, Jaimes... they're out there just waiting for the drama to roll upon them. Chat 'em up.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by MPB in Salt Lake

Finally, I guess I should add that I don't think you are a terrible person or that the things that you want for yourself are forever out of your reach, it's just that you don't seem to be willing to take ANY advise, counsel or criticism (constructive or otherwise) that is offered your way with even the slightest amount of acceptance or possible introspection, instead treating both the message and messenger as mortal enemies.

In this thread, you clearly established parameters that made you sound shallow, judgmental and juvenile, and when this was pointed out to you, you again simply shut down and refused to even consider that you were the one off-base.

Well if I made it seem like I was "setting out parameters" for myself in my OP, I was doing a bad job of trying to say what i was intenting to say. I have no superficial, set in stone parameters when it comes to dating, trust me. If I could go back and take out the "9s and 10s" part of my OP in exchange for a more well-thought out bit, I'd do it.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Brynda

Ok, you are theorizing that really hawt women ignore you because of your wheelchair, no matter what you do. Welcome to the big ole world, homey. Lots of people don't get the hottest wimmens, and they survive. A wheelchair, and the disability that landed you in one, hurts your chances in the marriage market, just like being poor, or a minority, or a million other things.

No, this is not what I'm saying. But I appreciate your empathy. what I am saying is that my wheelchair makes it difficult to be visible to women that I am attracted to. And its not me that this is exclusive to, its pretty much any single person in a wheelchair period (I know many). I don't let this stop me from getting out there and trying, though; it just makes my rejection-to-success/ratio that much higher.

[Ambivalid]

And let me clarify, before people jump all over me; when I say that I tend to be invisible to the women that I am attracted to, that is not to say that I am only attracted to "9s and 10s". Again, those are the ones, categorically speaking, that will ALWAYS ignore me. But many other women to whom I am attracted won't even give me a second look (or that first chance) simply because of thechair.

[Blackberry]

Where are you meeting these women, Jamie? Obviously I don't really know, but it seems like there would be a fair number that would still be interested.

[Ambivalid]

Originally Posted by Blackberry

Where are you meeting these women, Jamie? Obviously I don't really know, but it seems like there would be a fair number that would still be interested.

Well I don't know about "fair number", but its certainly not zero.