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  #151  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:06 PM
Passion of the Shrubber Passion of the Shrubber is offline
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Originally Posted by astro View Post
Again, here we have the lazy conflation of common sense warning = victim blaming. The "core" of this thread is very much about the risks involved in distributing easily disseminated digital data. Doing a lot of arm waving about gross violations of trust without also focusing on the precautions you can undertake to keep from being placed at risk is kind of pointless as the media is already disseminated at that point.
Just wondering, astro, where the <strike>blame</strike> common sense warning is for those men who share nude photos with their SOs? Or where is the advice to the people who would share such photos in a fit of vengeance along with personal contact info for their ex on some shady site? Have you no misplaced concern for their well-being?

I've read through this thread and have seen many posters asking you some relevant and thoughtful questions, pretty much all of which you have neglected to answer. Why is that?
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  #152  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:09 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Troppus View Post
Seems like someone here was very angry, indignant, and vociferously offended when women take precautions to protect their safety. I wonder if anyone can remember who that was?
I was rather annoyed when you suggested you had the right to threaten any passing man on the grounds he might be dangerous. I'm all for people, regardless of genital configuration, taking responsibility for their own safety as much as possible, as the only person's actions you can control are your own.

To take an analogy from the thread to which you refer, refusing to be photographed by someone is fine. Pepper spraying them on the grounds that they are carrying a camera and might potentially photograph you is not.

I doubt you'll get the distinction though, you failed to in the other thread.
  #153  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:12 PM
Carmady Carmady is offline
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Originally Posted by Passion of the Shrubber View Post
I've read through this thread and have seen many posters asking you some relevant and thoughtful questions, pretty much all of which you have neglected to answer. Why is that?

Indeed. Two questions in particular stick in my mind.

One was about the statistical likelihood for a picture to be posted without consent. Surely that would be a major factor in estimating the danger level and appropriate level of precaution.

The other was about the difference between this situation and allowing a boyfriend access to your purse (and I would add another example, taking a job that requires you to walk through a parking lot at night). In the purse example, we don't see people blamed for being robbed. In the job example, we don't see women being told they are stupid to take a job. So is the difference just that this involves sex, and women don't have the same right to be sexual that they do to work or possess money?

Last edited by Carmady; 05-04-2013 at 10:13 PM..
  #154  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:16 PM
Troppus Troppus is offline
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Yeah Steophan, you think that merely possessing pepper spray is "threatening" and assumed that men who post intimate photos to revenge porn sites do so because their slutty SOs cheated on them so... not really confident in your ability to pass accurate or fair judgement in situations involving human interaction.

Last edited by Troppus; 05-04-2013 at 10:17 PM..
  #155  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:33 PM
Left Hand of Dorkness Left Hand of Dorkness is online now
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Chitwood View Post
If a friend shows me a sext he got from some girl he met last weekend (which don't tell me that's never happened to you, because certainly it has happened to most of us)
Wait, what? I've not only not had this happen to me, I haven't had anything remotely similar happen to me. Is this actually common?
  #156  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:34 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness View Post
Wait, what? I've not only not had this happen to me, I haven't had anything remotely similar happen to me. Is this actually common?
Same here. It's never happened.

Everybody assumes their experience is normal...
  #157  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:46 PM
April R April R is offline
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Originally Posted by colander View Post


What percentage of modern relationships do you think have at some point involved the sharing or exchange of digitally-encoded prurient pictures? Here's a hint: probably around 50%. Sorry to break it to you, but this is a pretty normal thing for people in relationships to do with each other, and the vast, vast majority of material generated in these activities does not, in fact, ever end up being uploaded to mysluttywhoreex.com. No matter how much you prod and chastise, it's not going away.

And why in the world should it have to, anyway, for Christ's sake? Because some people can't be trusted not to commit malicious acts? How about we focus on taking down the people who commit these acts instead of declaring that it's the victim's own stupid fault for having the temerity to think that their relationship partner might not be a horrible person?
I hope to Og you are right because I have one video I sent to a college bf that I would be embarrassed if it got on the internet. Eek
  #158  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:53 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Troppus View Post
Yeah Steophan, you think that merely possessing pepper spray is "threatening"
Stop posting lies about me. I specifically said in that thread that keeping a weapon on your person for self defence is fine, and in some cases the best option. I also said that it's both wrong and illegal to preemptively threaten people, no matter what you threaten them with, nor the genitals possessed by you and them.

Quote:
and assumed that men who post intimate photos to revenge porn sites do so because their slutty SOs cheated on them so... not really confident in your ability to pass accurate or fair judgement in situations involving human interaction.
Again, stop posting lies about me, and learn to read.

I stated (correctly) that men only care about who a woman is sleeping with if it's their partner, and that it's women who do most slut-shaming. Because that's what I see in real life, and indeed it's what I see in this thread.

I've made no comments about the motivations of the person posting the photos, as it's not relevant. It's wrong, it's illegal, he'll be punished, and that will in no way help the victim.

Once again, saying someone was stupid to put themselves in a position where they could become a victim isn't blaming them. It's calling them stupid. They'd be stupid even if they didn't become a victim, and their victimhood doesn't change the stupidity. If I leave my door open and my computer is stolen, I'm stupid. If you let me store naked photos of you on it that you don't want made public, you're stupid. Get it yet?
  #159  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:54 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Not everyone is a decent person, and when deciding what to do in life, one should take that into account.
Do you have a list? I mean, I trusted the waitress at the restaurant this evening with my credit card. If she stole the number and is racking up a huge bill, do I deserve to be blamed? If I go outside tomorrow to my apartment's parking lot and find my car window smashed in and the stereo missing, is it in some way my fault for trusting that people would leave my car alone?
  #160  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:56 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
If you let me store naked photos of you on it that you don't want made public, you're stupid. Get it yet?
Telling remark.
  #161  
Old 05-04-2013, 10:58 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
Telling remark.
Yep, it tells you that you don't know that my computer won't be stolen... Congratulations on reading for comprehension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
Do you have a list? I mean, I trusted the waitress at the restaurant this evening with my credit card. If she stole the number and is racking up a huge bill, do I deserve to be blamed? If I go outside tomorrow to my apartment's parking lot and find my car window smashed in and the stereo missing, is it in some way my fault for trusting that people would leave my car alone?
No. If you give your credit card or car to an acquaintance who you can't be sure you trust, and they steal it, then you're a moron. That's the parallel to this thread.
.

Last edited by Steophan; 05-04-2013 at 11:01 PM..
  #162  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:02 PM
Inner Stickler Inner Stickler is offline
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I would say telling remark again but, let's be honest, who didn't already know?
  #163  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:02 PM
Passion of the Shrubber Passion of the Shrubber is offline
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Originally Posted by Carmady View Post
Indeed. Two questions in particular stick in my mind.

One was about the statistical likelihood for a picture to be posted without consent. Surely that would be a major factor in estimating the danger level and appropriate level of precaution.
Yes! And, considering that "boudoir photography" has been taking place since the the beginning of photography, you'd think if this were commonplace, the risk levels in sharing nude photos would be very apparent.


Quote:
The other was about the difference between this situation and allowing a boyfriend access to your purse (and I would add another example, taking a job that requires you to walk through a parking lot at night). In the purse example, we don't see people blamed for being robbed. In the job example, we don't see women being told they are stupid to take a job. So is the difference just that this involves sex, and women don't have the same right to be sexual that they do to work or possess money?
Nice example! Yes, this is one of the other issues I'd like to see astro address since he is the OP. I guess, magically, women are supposed to know which men are trustworthy and which are not. How does astro feel women should best judge this for themselves? Should a woman be with a man for 3 months? 10 years? 20 years? Before she can fully trust someone with her inner self?

I'd also like to know if astro feels he could be trusted with such photos? And if so, why? And which signs does he think women should look for before she can fully trust her partner?
  #164  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:14 PM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is online now
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Only an idiot woman would fail to wear a burqa at all times, otherwise she might tempt some perv into perving her! This is EXACTLY what the OP is saying, in essence, just applied to real life instead of the Internet. I'm surprised so many Dopers failed to see through it. I guess a little moral superiority over "those idiots" is a tempting thing indeed.
  #165  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:16 PM
Passion of the Shrubber Passion of the Shrubber is offline
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[QUOTE=Steophan;16259718]I stated (correctly) that men only care about who a woman is sleeping with if it's their partner, and that it's women who do most slut-shaming.[QUOTE]

Do you have a cite for that because, from what I understand of these slutshaming sites, it's mostly men who are providing the photos.



Quote:
Because that's what I see in real life, and indeed it's what I see in this thread.
Where are you seeing an instance of this in this thread? Please show me because I must've read past it somehow.
  #166  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:18 PM
Passion of the Shrubber Passion of the Shrubber is offline
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
I would say telling remark again but, let's be honest, who didn't already know?
Yes it is, indeed, and it's a shame he either can't see it or is ignoring it. I can't tell which.
  #167  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:19 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Inner Stickler View Post
I would say telling remark again but, let's be honest, who didn't already know?
Please, say what you mean, if you want to accuse me of something.

What I'm saying is that many people are not perfectly trustworthy, and the best way to ensure they don't harm you is not to give them the opportunity. This is, of course, a balancing act, but from the evidence - the sheer amount of this stuff that gets posted on the internet - I don't think I'd be inclined to say that many people would be trustworthy with it after a relationship ends. Irrationality causes people to make terrible decisions, and the ease of doing it coupled with the perceived lack of punishment means there is little to stop someone doing it, apart from not being a cunt.

If you want to take that to mean that I've done it myself, you'd be wrong, but I've no way of proving that. If it pleases you to think I'm an evil pervert of some sort, knock yourself out.
  #168  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:20 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
I was rather annoyed when you suggested you had the right to threaten any passing man on the grounds he might be dangerous. I'm all for people, regardless of genital configuration, taking responsibility for their own safety as much as possible, as the only person's actions you can control are your own.
And this is where you're just being silly. She was talking about jogging with her pepper spray and you're saying that by having it out on her person (not waving it at every man she passed, just having it visible) she is threatening any passing man. That is ridiculous and I picture you clutching your pearls "Well I never! That woman ran by me with pepper spray. That pepper spray passed right by my person!"

Perhaps where you live it's illegal to carry it where people can see it. That's not true everywhere. I have participated in police lead self defense/self awareness programs where the police officers specifically tell you that you should have it in your hand when walking to your car, jogging, etc. They specifically tell you (in printed literature and verbally in the class) that when you need it you need it immediately and you don't want to rummage for it in your purse so carry it where it can be seen so the potential predator sees that you aren't the easiest mark.

The literature we used in these programs were ordered from one place and it was the same no matter what state in the US it was being sent to. I'm 100% sure that if she contacted her police department where she lives here in the USA and asked if she could run with her pepper spray on her person (strapped to her arm, dangling from her wrist) she would be told y-e-s.
  #169  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:22 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
I've lost three different phones, all three of them contained pictures of naked girls.
You should stop leaving your phones places where you won't remember where they are.
  #170  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:30 PM
even sven even sven is offline
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By this logic, I think it's smarter to share dirty photos with a one night stand than your husband. A one night stand may not know your personal info, and will have little motivation to launch a coherent harassment campaign. But a husband could, if the marriage broke up, do a lot of damage.

Ladies, beware.
  #171  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:33 PM
rhubarbarin rhubarbarin is offline
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Even if, like me, you don't care if people see you naked, and get paid by artists to sketch you naked (and there are plenty of existing photos taken of you while posing) - it would still be deeply wrong for someone to post those pics with identifying info on the internet in an attempt at defamation and/or harassment. I'd pursue legal action as well.
  #172  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:35 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies View Post
I'm 100% sure that if she contacted her police department where she lives here in the USA and asked if she could run with her pepper spray on her person (strapped to her arm, dangling from her wrist) she would be told y-e-s.
And despite me saying repeatedly that that has nothing to do with what I was saying, you keep repeating it. Troppus and others said in that thread that they had the right to threaten a man with pepper spray if they thought he might become a threat. They don't, anywhere.
  #173  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:38 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by Troppus View Post
Yah, we got it, we can't trust men.

Except when MRAs tell us we are scum for assuming all men are out to hurt us. Then, we should trust men. Except we can't tell which ones we can trust, which ones want us to relax and enjoy sex, and which ones will have sex with us then project their shame onto us and punish us or worse: ruin our professional and private lives and set us up to be raped by strangers. Wait... which is it again? Women should trust men and enjoy sex with them, or women should regard all men as potential villians, criminals, and rapists? So hard to keep up.
What's especially fun is that if you look at past threads here about dating and that old "3 date rule" about having sex you'll see how many people are shocked that people aren't ready to bone after just a few dates.

If a date lasts 2 hours and you've had three that means that in 6 hours time you should know if the person you're about to bang is a trustworthy individual who will not harm you physically now or screw you over in the future when things have gone south. Please be sure to be open to all of those people too and only assume they are bad when they've given you reason to think badly of them. Looking at anyone as a potential ANYTHING that's bad will hurt their feelings and that's more important than protecting yourself from anything.
  #174  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:40 PM
dnooman dnooman is offline
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
You seriously believe that every single vanity celebrity sex-tape somehow makes it into the public eye? There is literally no reason why you should think this is the case.
Absolutely not, where are you getting this from?
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Originally Posted by Red Barchetta View Post
It's not even a matter of assigning fault; it's called taking preventive measures. Which in this case, is a very liberal use of the term seeing as not sending nudies of yourself is the default action.

Had she not sent naked pictures of herself, like a non-idiot might consider, this wouldn't have happened, by virtue of the fact it couldn't have happened. That's not to say her idiot ex wouldn't have found another way to harass her, but that wouldn't have been it, and it's unlikely to have been anywhere near as damaging.
Allowing nude pics to be taken incurs risk, this is factual.

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Originally Posted by DigitalC View Post
The relevance is to the "taking naked pictures of yourself is stupid if you don't want them to end up on the internet" discussion. And losing your phone happens to anyone, not just me. Laptops get stolen, computers break down and need repairing, cameras get lost. It is just a stupid thing to do, trust doesn't even need to go into it.
Allowing nude pics to be taken incurs risk, this is factual.

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Originally Posted by astro View Post
The furious pushback here over what would seem to be fairly simple, common sense advice is interesting. The notion that telling people not to post or send naked pics of themselves as it may involve a very real risk of eventual exposure is tantamount to some sort of predicate slut shaming is ... I don't know... it's just bizarre.

The people that would do this to other people re posting private pics are human scum, but to pretend the risk does not exist if you are emailing or sending your pics to others does not exist is foolish. The notion that there is some magical halo of privacy and decency that should protect you from this happening is charming, but not realistic. You can go after people legally for doing this if you can ID them and convince the law that they are the ones that posted the pics (good luck with that) but the pics are already out there at that point.

For those who have their backs way up at this advice because they feel that they are full grown adults and entitled to share their erotica as they see fit, and that anyone telling them otherwise can go pound sand, go for it. Good luck chasing the perpetrators. Good luck shutting down the revenge-sites and boards that can pop up overnight like mushrooms and disappear just as quickly. Good luck when a buddy sends you an urgent email telling you that your erotic pics are floating around.
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Originally Posted by not what you'd expect View Post
I had a fella once who begged me to allow him to take a sexy photo of me. I said no. Then I became a "cold fish and a prude who didn't know how to have fun."

Can't win for losing.
You dodged a bullet.

The people that are offended by finding leaked pics/video online all (criminal events aside) have one thing in common, they allowed the pic/video to be taken. Surprisingly, the people that refused pics and vids, found no instances of graphic images of them online.

There may be some rights to privacy afforded in certain circumstances, but if you knew the pic was taken, and it ended up online, that's on you. Someone else posted it? You knew it was out there.

Responsibility. It includes being aware of what one should and shouldn't take pictures of with no possible chance of negative repercussions.
  #175  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:40 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
And despite me saying repeatedly that that has nothing to do with what I was saying, you keep repeating it. Troppus and others said in that thread that they had the right to threaten a man with pepper spray if they thought he might become a threat. They don't, anywhere.
Except that you said that there is no reason to have it in your hand at all unless you intend to use it and that anyone who simply sees it can assume it's a threat. Keep clutching those pearls and telling us that we're wrong about the words you use. Bonus points for you telling us how the "law works" as if the law is the same in every single place in the world.

Last edited by Sleeps With Butterflies; 05-04-2013 at 11:42 PM..
  #176  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:44 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies View Post
Except that you said that there is no reason to have it in your hand at all unless you intend to use it and that anyone who simply sees it can assume it's a threat. Keep clutching those pearls and telling us that we're wrong about the words you use. Bonus points for you telling us how the "law works" as if the law is the same in every single place in the world.
Yes, exactly. Don't have a weapon in your hand unless you intend to use it.
  #177  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:48 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Yes, exactly. Don't have a weapon in your hand unless you intend to use it.
Between police officers instructions and Steophan of the internet I think I'll go with the advice of the police officers despite your super cool knowledge of how the "law works" every single place in the world. Still, you be careful out there as those women run by with the scary, scary pepper spray hanging from their wrist. The world's a dangerous place for you with those threats whizzing by.
  #178  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:50 PM
astro astro is offline
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Originally Posted by Carmady View Post
Indeed. Two questions in particular stick in my mind.

One was about the statistical likelihood for a picture to be posted without consent. Surely that would be a major factor in estimating the danger level and appropriate level of precaution.

The other was about the difference between this situation and allowing a boyfriend access to your purse (and I would add another example, taking a job that requires you to walk through a parking lot at night). In the purse example, we don't see people blamed for being robbed. In the job example, we don't see women being told they are stupid to take a job. So is the difference just that this involves sex, and women don't have the same right to be sexual that they do to work or possess money?
The actual percentage of private pics made fully public is obviously very low relative to the number of digital erotic pics in circulation on computers, and cell phones and camera chips. However, the reality is that lot of those pics are more widely distributed than many people may think as digital data is easily copied and sometimes overlooked. I occasionally buy older, inexpensive digital cameras from thrifts for taking ebay pics, and the more than once people (women in each case) have left their erotic pics on the memory chips. I delete these pics, but another person might not. At least 2 times a year or more I pick up and turn in cellphones that people have left on counter tops and shelves in retail stores or restaurants.

Several years ago I was asked by a friend if there was a way to retrieve some pics of a HS football game her daughter had deleted. I did some googling and downloaded the recommended retrieval software and it undeleted over a hundred shots which included much more than just the daughters football pics.

The point is the terminal risk that your shots will be on a porn site are very low assuming everyone is acting decently, but they are not infinitesimal, and everyone doesn't act decently, and there's more of your private porn running around than you might think. So take precautions. If you don't you may get stung.

Is the fact that you are not morally or ethically culpable in any way going to make it all better when a bunch of revenge board trolls are contacting your Facebook friends with shots of you in private action? Sure, it's terrible, it's wrong and they are a pack of shits, but is that going to make it any less embarrassing when you lose that job opportunity or become the talk of the lunchroom?

If you really think the risks involved with briefly trusting someone with your purse contents vs giving them full access and effective permanent control of your erotic pics even (potentially) after they have broken up with you is somehow the same risk-wise ... I don't know what to tell you. I think you are miscalculating the nature of the risks. Ethically and morally both are gross breaches or trust, but one is likely to have a lot higher impact than the other if the thief uses the pictures.

There seems this to be this huge push to focus on how wrong and immoral it is if this violation of trust happens. All that is granted. There's no argument there, but the second part of this where there is this insistence that there must not be any suggestion or intimation that the person posting their erotic pics in happy innocence should or could have done anything differently to prevent this from occurring is baffling bordering on asinine.

Apparently the advice - "Hey don't post naked pics of yourself as there is a risk they could be misused, and that could be bad for you" - is

1: slut shaming
2: victim blaming
3: condescending
4: lame
5: not statistically all that high risk, and thus not something women really need to concern themselves with
6: assumes all men are sociopathic predators
7: does not acknowledge the extent to which erotic picture sharing is a vital and necessary part of modern relationships

OK fine... share away. But not a peep out of you if they pop up in undesired places.

Last edited by astro; 05-04-2013 at 11:51 PM..
  #179  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:55 PM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by astro View Post
Apparently the advice - "Hey don't post naked pics of yourself as there is a risk they could be misused, and that could be bad for you" - is

1: slut shaming
2: victim blaming
3: condescending
4: lame
5: not statistically all that high risk, and thus not something women really need to concern themselves with
6: assumes all men are sociopathic predators
7: does not acknowledge the extent to which erotic picture sharing is a vital and necessary part of modern relationships

OK fine... share away. But not a peep out of you if they pop up in undesired places.
But here's the thing, you specifically made a point to address your advice to women. Not everyone, just women. Women only despite the fact that there have been many famous men this has happened to as well. Can you at all see how your choice to do this smacks as a bit jerkish and possibly a bit of slut shaming?

I'm not asking for your head on a platter, but can you see how it's a little strange that you choose to only lay down this advice to women?
  #180  
Old 05-04-2013, 11:56 PM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies View Post
Between police officers instructions and Steophan of the internet I think I'll go with the advice of the police officers despite your super cool knowledge of how the "law works" every single place in the world. Still, you be careful out there as those women run by with the scary, scary pepper spray hanging from their wrist. The world's a dangerous place for you with those threats whizzing by.
You seem to have confused "hanging from the wrist" with "in your hand" again. Perhaps the nice police officer can explain the difference to you next time you call him to settle your internet arguments.
  #181  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:02 AM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
You seem to have confused "hanging from the wrist" with "in your hand" again. Perhaps the nice police officer can explain the difference to you next time you call him to settle your internet arguments.
OK since it seems that you are a big fan of nitpicking every.single.word. in an effort to make what you say make sense you'll note that in post #168 I actually said "in your hand" and not hanging from the wrist. I figured you didn't need me to repeat that for you once again since you were the person I was addressing in that post.

And extra bonus points for your condescending "nice police officer can explain the difference to you" horseshit. I was using the police as an example of how women are TOLD to carry pepper spray by actual law enforcement officers in direct opposition to what anonymous internet people who think they know how the "law works" say online. If you really don't understand that and you think I'm using him to settle arguments then you're worse off than I imagined and that's pretty bad.
  #182  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:22 AM
colander colander is offline
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Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
And despite me saying repeatedly that that has nothing to do with what I was saying, you keep repeating it. Troppus and others said in that thread that they had the right to threaten a man with pepper spray if they thought he might become a threat. They don't, anywhere.
Steophan, I remember that thread. That was the one where you revealed to us that you are unable to distinguish between a weapon display and a weapon brandishment. I suspect it started out as an honest mistake on your part because you thought that brandishing and drawing a weapon are the same thing, but then you just dug your heels in further, and then, well... this. Oh, this.
  #183  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:24 AM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Please cite where the police tell women to preemptively threaten people with pepper spray, as that is what people where claiming the right to do in that thread, and what I still maintain is unacceptable.

Oh, and I will continue to be condescending towards anyone who can neither keep their arguments straight nor read for comprehension.
  #184  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:32 AM
Steophan Steophan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Steophan, I remember that thread. That was the one where you revealed to us that you are unable to distinguish between a weapon display and a weapon brandishment. I suspect it started out as an honest mistake on your part because you thought that brandishing and drawing a weapon are the same thing, but then you just dug your heels in further, and then, well... this. Oh, this.
Brandishing (or menacing, as it's more often called) is displaying a weapon in such a way as to make a person feel threatened by it. In the case of a non-lethal weapon, it's a misdemeanour. Cite.

If I'm doing nothing to you, and you have a weapon in your hand, damn right I have reason to feel threatened.
  #185  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:33 AM
astro astro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeps With Butterflies View Post
But here's the thing, you specifically made a point to address your advice to women. Not everyone, just women. Women only despite the fact that there have been many famous men this has happened to as well. Can you at all see how your choice to do this smacks as a bit jerkish and possibly a bit of slut shaming?

I'm not asking for your head on a platter, but can you see how it's a little strange that you choose to only lay down this advice to women?
There are men, especially notable men, who have come to grief by posting erotic pics of themselves, but compared to the numbers of women who have had their private pics exposed and privacy violated the number is minute. Plus, for whatever reason, women seem to have a greater tendency to assemble and transmit erotic galleries of themselves in a variety of poses which offers even more opportunities to trolls.

The advice was offered to women as they are (in almost all cases) what the revenge porn sites are centered around, and what the shaming trolls flock to, eager to contact the associates of the women or to mock them publically as they roll the pics and videos around the net. The advice is equally relevant for men, but in most cases there is little if any appetite for consuming these pics by net trolls. The risk of exposure considering the driving forces behind these sites is much higher for women than for men.

But OK your point is granted. l should have said "people" not women in the OP and related advice warnings.
  #186  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:34 AM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steophan View Post
Please cite where the police tell women to preemptively threaten people with pepper spray, as that is what people where claiming the right to do in that thread, and what I still maintain is unacceptable.

Oh, and I will continue to be condescending towards anyone who can neither keep their arguments straight nor read for comprehension.
Earlier in this thread you used "the world around me" as y0ur cite but I can't cite a police led program I participated in as a cite? Are you serious? Do you always use different rules for yourself than you do for others or is it just these crazy arguments about men and women that make you dig in your heels and behave this way?

Either way I'm done trying to have an actual conversation with you. You seem hellbent on "winning" over actual understanding so feel free to write "I won another internet argument today" in your little book of accomplishments or go crow about it on the GB or whatever you do to celebrate these things because I'm sure you'll take my desire to not engage you anymore as you winning. Fine. You won. A brick wall would be easier to discuss things with since it only sits there unmoving instead of being unmoving and playing silly semantics/nitpicking games.

You feel that a woman carrying pepper spray in her hand on her way to the car is brandishing a weapon, good for you. Your right to not feel threatened by the pepper spray passing by you is more important than her feeling safer for having done what she's been told to do to try to be a tiny bit safer. Go you, you scored one for men everywhere. Have fun!

Woohoo you used "reading for comprehension" now you just need either "perfect master" or "fighting ignorance" because with your previous commitment to pure nitpickery and the free space you'll have yourself a Straight Dope bingo! Congrats, you've become what you make fun of over at the GB.
  #187  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:39 AM
Sleeps With Butterflies Sleeps With Butterflies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
But OK your point is granted. l should have said "people" not women in the OP and related advice warnings.
Thanks for that. I do appreciate it.
  #188  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:41 AM
stui magpie stui magpie is offline
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Yay, another M vs F argy bargy thread.

Oh well, having skimmed through the pages I might as well ad my 2 cents.

The opening premise is factually correct, but is also overly simplistic and puts unwarranted blame on the victim. You might as well say to someone "If you don't want to be in a car accident don't go out in a car".

People in a relationship are usually not thinking about what might happen if this all ends badly, they're in the moment. So some people take photos of themselves or their partner that they wouldn't show the kids. Both parties get a kick out of it, no harm no foul.

After a break up, to then put those photos up on a public board is a very low act, adding contact details for the person is even lower. Maybe they were badly hurt, wanted revenge, wanted the other party to feel as upset and embarrased as they did, but those are reasons not justification. Maybe the person who put them up thought the other person deserved it, but the argument "If she didn't want me to post naked photos of her on the web she shouldn't have let me take them" is ridiculous.

Part of being in a relationship is trust. Sharing bank accounts, sharing a living space, secrets etc etc. A relationship break up usually (not always) ends up with that trust being broken, often very badly, by at least one of the parties.

If it gets really nasty, that's what laws are for.
  #189  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:44 AM
Passion of the Shrubber Passion of the Shrubber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astro View Post
The actual percentage of private pics made fully public is obviously very low relative to the number of digital erotic pics in circulation on computers, and cell phones and camera chips. However, the reality is that lot of those pics are more widely distributed than many people may think as digital data is easily copied and sometimes overlooked.
Cite?


Quote:
The point is the terminal risk that your shots will be on a porn site are very low assuming everyone is acting decently, but they are not infinitesimal, and everyone doesn't act decently, and there's more of your private porn running around than you might think. So take precautions. If you don't you may get stung.

Let's get down to the meat of this then. Why do you feel only women need to take precautions? And you still haven't stated how women can know, beyond the shadow of all doubt, whether or not they can trust their partner. How much time in a relationship do you think a woman should spend in a relationship before she decides to become intimate with someone? And, if she decides to become intimate with her partner, doesn't it stand to reason that she should then be able to trust her partner enough to indulge in boudoir photography with him?


Quote:
Is the fact that you are not morally or ethically culpable in any way going to make it all better when a bunch of revenge board trolls are contacting your Facebook friends with shots of you in private action? Sure, it's terrible, it's wrong and they are a pack of shits, but is that going to make it any less embarrassing when you lose that job opportunity or become the talk of the lunchroom?

Again, is this something only women should take precautions with? And, if not, why did you only address women in your OP?


Quote:
If you really think the risks involved with briefly trusting someone with your purse contents vs giving them full access and effective permanent control of your erotic pics even (potentially) after they have broken up with you is somehow the same risk-wise ... I don't know what to tell you. I think you are miscalculating the nature of the risks. Ethically and morally both are gross breaches or trust, but one is likely to have a lot higher impact than the other if the thief uses the pictures.

In a way, it is a similar risk because you are leaving your entire identity open when you leave your purse in someone's care. Heck, you may even have some compromising photos in your wallet. So, please tell us how well a woman should know a man before she leaves her purse in the same room with him alone? Or should women not trust men with this at all?


Quote:
There seems this to be this huge push to focus on how wrong and immoral it is if this violation of trust happens. All that is granted. There's no argument there, but the second part of this where there is this insistence that there must not be any suggestion or intimation that the person posting their erotic pics in happy innocence should or could have done anything differently to prevent this from occurring is baffling bordering on asinine.

But, in your OP, you chose to name women as the sole agents committing this particular faux pas, even though men are also passing on similar photos. So, you are basically telling all women that they are not to trust men in any situation, no matter how long you have known them, is this correct? If not, please outline your guidelines in regards to trustworthiness in relationships. Or should we just get a f'ing crystal ball?


Quote:
Apparently the advice - "Hey don't post naked pics of yourself as there is a risk they could be misused, and that could be bad for you" - is

1: slut shaming
2: victim blaming
3: condescending
4: lame
5: not statistically all that high risk, and thus not something women really need to concern themselves with
6: assumes all men are sociopathic predators
7: does not acknowledge the extent to which erotic picture sharing is a vital and necessary part of modern relationships

OK fine... share away. But not a peep out of you if they pop up in undesired places.
[/QUOTE]


And not a peep out of you if your ex of many years puts those pix up on a disreputable website with all of your personal info in tow. And not a peep out of you if some ass ogling the pix on the website shows up at your address and decides to assault you. Because, it's all your fault. You shouldn't have trusted the man you loved.
  #190  
Old 05-05-2013, 12:48 AM
Idle Thoughts Idle Thoughts is offline
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Posts: 9,452
Moderator Note

Rather than try to get this thread back on topic--something I'm not even sure is remotely close to being possible--I'm closing it. All it is by now is a good combination of heated bickering, sniping comments, and potshots at other posters.

If anyone has any problems with anyone else here, take it to the Pit. If you want to continue this discussion, take it to the Pit.
Closed Thread



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