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  #1  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:30 AM
BrokenBriton BrokenBriton is offline
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Dr Who / Sherlock crossover discussion

It's kind of started in the two separate threads anyway, but now The Guardian has created a much larger discussion around this article:

Quote:
Sherlock and Doctor Who: beware of fans influencing the TV they love
http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...mment-30405391

Of course it's not just the two shows, it's the two lead writers - where they are going with the new Who and the still deveoping Sherlock.This passage is interesting:

Quote:
And, for the first time, I worried that the franchises are inadvertently merging. Although there has always been an overlap between the main players both the Doctor and Sherlock are hyperlogical eccentrics who either literally or metaphorically come from a different planet from their awestruck assistants The Empty Hearse felt oddly Whovian for a Sherlock.

This was partly because the plot tended to the apocalyptic an attempt to blow up London, rather than a left-handed man found dead in a locked room but also because there seemed to have been an attempt to make Holmes more whimsical and romantic, in the line of recent Time Lords. Although Cumberbatch played beautifully a scene in which the supposedly dead sleuth surprises Watson as a French waiter in a restaurant, the conceit felt closer to the natural acting register of David Tennant or Matt Smith than to Cumberbatch's drier, darker style.

There is already a much-watched YouTube mash-up of the Doctor meeting Sherlock, and a meeting between these main men sometimes seems an almost inevitable future episode of Doctor Who. Or, perhaps, when Cumberbatch's flourishing movie career makes him unavailable to Sherlock, the character will simply fall to the floor and morph into Tennant, Smith or someone else. The fan sites would love it, but, as recent episodes warn, a hit show needs to bear in mind the broadest audience.



And some of the comments below are are also interesting, for example this on the fourth wall and Sherlock (though Dr Who is no stranger to the fourth wall either):

Quote:
Sherlock has always broken the fourth wall, from its very first broadcast - John's blog & Sherlock's website were promoted as tie-ins along with the first episode. Moffat & Gatiss have always stated that Sherlock was influenced by not only by the original canon but also other adaptions and the associated fanlore.
Fans of Sherlock Holmes have a long tradition of in jokes, theories & yes, fanfiction since it was first published & much of that has been acknowledged in the show. And yes, The Empty Hearse acknowledged many of the more modern fandom jokes. But that didn't take away from it.
Anyway, I thought I put this up as an opportunity for a discussion in one thread about the "merging"/crossover issue, as well for as any Gatiss / Moffat stuff.
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:42 AM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Sherlock investigating "The Doctor" only to have Mycroft dismissively tell him that he's already well acquainted with the fellow?

Obviously NOT the same universe, as all of the shit that has happened to London in NuWho attests. But it could be made to work.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:48 AM
LawMonkey LawMonkey is online now
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Lalalalalala *puts fingers in ears and skips the OP*.

Anyway, there's a fan-made crossover video that's quite good.
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2014, 10:49 AM
BrokenBriton BrokenBriton is offline
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LOL. I can't get past who would write it ....
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2014, 02:53 PM
FeAudrey FeAudrey is offline
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There have been plenty of (original recipe) Sherlock references in "Doctor Who" ("The Talons of Weng-Chiang", for example, a Tom Baker/Leela episode).

And we see a Doctor Who shout-out now and then in the contemporary "Sherlock" (such as in the ending sequence of "A Scandal in Belgravia", when Sherlock instructs Irene Adler, 'When I say "Run!' -- RUN!!!!").

Last edited by FeAudrey; 01-03-2014 at 02:54 PM..
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2014, 03:05 PM
Bridget Burke Bridget Burke is offline
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The critic is nostalgic for the good old days, when the family would watch telly & wait for the newspaper critic to explain it all. Now a million folks watch & a thousand post their opinions immediately. Wise, funny opinions. Or very silly ones. Then they begin arguing!

He's offended by fans who are "obsessed." He gets paid for having superior knowledge--how dare mere peasants study up & express their opinions where others can read them?

Haven't seen the latest Sherlock but have gleefully spoiled myself. Yes, Gatiss was having fun with the fans--the folks who have made the show a giant hit. Some of them are upset--and others think the episode was great fun. The critic seems to think there are common folk who couldn't "get" it. Where are they?

Basically, he gets paid to submit articles. That's all he could come up with.....

Last edited by Bridget Burke; 01-03-2014 at 03:06 PM..
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2014, 04:54 PM
glee glee is offline
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Derren Browne has appeared on both series.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2014, 05:06 PM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawMonkey View Post
Lalalalalala *puts fingers in ears and skips the OP*.

Anyway, there's a fan-made crossover video that's quite good.
Seriously, folks, check that video out. I came in here to post it. It's quite well done.
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2014, 08:37 PM
phall0106 phall0106 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LawMonkey View Post
Lalalalalala *puts fingers in ears and skips the OP*.

Anyway, there's a fan-made crossover video that's quite good.
That was awesome. Just freaking awesome.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:28 PM
Lasciel Lasciel is offline
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Some of the face-morphs to match the mouth movements on the Doctor are solidly into creepy "uncanny valley" territory for me, and Sherlock isn't ever quite looking in the right direction.

Not saying it isn't amazing, and really talented work, but the little niggly oddities kept making the hairs on my arms stand up.

*shudder* Super-creepy. Awesome concept, and really cool work, but yeesh - weird!
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2014, 12:13 AM
furryman furryman is offline
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I had this weird idea a long time ago. I can't remember if I made it up or I read a fanfiction somewhere. Anyway the idea was that Sherlock was actually the Doctor which had gotten trapped in the late 1800's and forgotten who he was.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2014, 01:53 AM
Miller Miller is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasciel View Post
Some of the face-morphs to match the mouth movements on the Doctor are solidly into creepy "uncanny valley" territory for me, and Sherlock isn't ever quite looking in the right direction.
Also, there's a bit where the Doctor suddenly leans forward and speaks directly to Sherlock's belt buckle.

Still, very clever none the less.
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2014, 06:38 AM
Half Man Half Wit Half Man Half Wit is offline
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I don't think that one show/universe could really carry both characters. They work at least in part due to their uniqueness, and having another character from the same mold (more or less) would significantly weaken that. Plus, there's the danger that it would just deteriorate into an intellectual pissing contest---both characters love to be in the position of being the only one around with a clue what's going on, of outclassing everybody around, and moreover, both series' writers love to show that off (while I liked the first episode of the new season of Sherlock, sometimes it seemed like half of it was spent in 'Sherlock scan'-mode). Playing that against one another would get tiresome quickly.
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2014, 06:46 AM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is offline
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I don't see the problem. The Doctor has visited many historical figures several Queens, Shakespeare, Van Gogh.

Why would a visit to Sherlock Holmes be any different? The Doctor would offer some help on a case and leave.

The Doctor and Amy didn't change Van Gogh's fate.

Last edited by aceplace57; 01-05-2014 at 06:47 AM..
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2014, 07:43 AM
vontsira vontsira is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bridget Burke View Post
The critic is nostalgic for the good old days, when the family would watch telly & wait for the newspaper critic to explain it all. Now a million folks watch & a thousand post their opinions immediately. Wise, funny opinions. Or very silly ones. Then they begin arguing!

He's offended by fans who are "obsessed." He gets paid for having superior knowledge--how dare mere peasants study up & express their opinions where others can read them?

Haven't seen the latest Sherlock but have gleefully spoiled myself. Yes, Gatiss was having fun with the fans--the folks who have made the show a giant hit. Some of them are upset--and others think the episode was great fun. The critic seems to think there are common folk who couldn't "get" it. Where are they?

Basically, he gets paid to submit articles. That's all he could come up with.....
The link in the OP doesn't seem to work for me: I can't get the actual article -- after a few seconds, it jumps to the "readers' comments" section. However, the bit of the article quoted in the OP does give me the feeling that the critic is indeed an up-himself, supercilious, aesthetic-snobbish, conceited twat (rather a lot of such types seem to show up in the "Guardian").

My unfavourable reaction is intensified by the guy's using the word "Whovian". Influenced perhaps by my not being a Dr. Who fan anyway; but I loathe that word, as used by some over-the-top Dr. W. devotees. It just strikes me as so fucking precious. As bad, for me, as a kindred pet hate of mine: those fanatical enthusiasts for the works of Terry Pratchett (which I also dislike), who refer to their adored author as "Pterry". Both words make me see red, and want to go out and KILL.

Sorry to be a miserable, negative sod, disproportionately upset by terms which are, objectively, harmless...
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  #16  
Old 01-05-2014, 07:45 AM
BrokenBriton BrokenBriton is offline
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Fwiw, this takes you to the top of the article:

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-ra...influencing-tv
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  #17  
Old 01-05-2014, 07:56 AM
vontsira vontsira is offline
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BrokenBriton -- thanks. Having read the full article, my opinion stands: that its author is the king of pretentious twats.
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  #18  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:09 AM
Miller Miller is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I don't see the problem. The Doctor has visited many historical figures several Queens, Shakespeare, Van Gogh.
Sherlock Holmes isn't a historical figure, though. He's fictional. Might as well have the Doctor meet up with Harry Potter, or Luke Skywalker.
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  #19  
Old 01-05-2014, 10:29 AM
Chimera Chimera is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
Sherlock Holmes isn't a historical figure, though. He's fictional. Might as well have the Doctor meet up with Harry Potter, or Luke Skywalker.
There we go.

Daleks vs. The Empire.

Darth Vader force squeezing a Dalek commander.
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