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  #1  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:00 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Jewish Dopers: How do you view Jesus?

On one hand, he was "responsible" for a lot of hate and abuse that Jews had to go through over the centuries.

On the other hand, he is a Jew that managed to start a religion that attracts 2.1 billion followers (almost a third of the Earth's population). That's quite an accomplishment. Also, he wasn't directly/personally responsible for the hate against Jews, it was just some idiots who wanted to blame the Jews for his crucifixion.

Overall, if there was such an Italian or Greek guy (i.e. who started a religion followed by 1/3 of the Earth, but who indirectly led to hate and persecution of his compatriots), maybe the Italians or Greeks would begrudgingly admire him in a way. Not sure.

So, Jewish Dopers, how do you feel about or view Jesus?
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  #2  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:04 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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I don't think we think about him that much. I don't know anyone who blames the historical Jesus for anti-antisemitism. Since we (I use the term loosely as an atheist Jew) don't consider him divine, we don't hold him responsible for what his followers have done.
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  #3  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:33 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
I don't think we think about him that much. I don't know anyone who blames the historical Jesus for anti-antisemitism. Since we (I use the term loosely as an atheist Jew) don't consider him divine, we don't hold him responsible for what his followers have done.
That sums it up. I really give Jesus very little thought, one way or another, and certainly don't blame him for things done in his name.

Last edited by IvoryTowerDenizen; 02-11-2014 at 05:33 PM..
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:43 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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That sums it up. I really give Jesus very little thought, one way or another, and certainly don't blame him for things done in his name.
Jesus' just zis guy, you know?

IMO it could have been anyone or no one back then that spawned the religion. Many others could have took hold, his followers managed to make it happen.
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  #5  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:08 PM
Malthus Malthus is offline
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Pretty well what the others have said. No Jew I know of blames Jesus for what his followers did centuries after he was dead.

I view him as one of many religious enthusiasts and reformers who existed in his time and place. His message happened to attract a dedicated set of followers, who eventually crafted a new religion.

If anything, if I believed in a religion in which there was an afterlife and that guys like Jesus was aware of stuff on Earth from beyond the grave, I'd be sorry for him. Imagine his plight, watching from beyond, as people twist his message so profoundly over the centuries and use it for hateful ends. That would truly suck.
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:13 PM
LavenderBlue LavenderBlue is offline
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I think he was probably a nice guy but a significant number of his followers are literalist lunatics. Then again one can say the same thing about pretty much any religious figure. Mostly I don't think about him at all.
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  #7  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:16 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
I don't think we think about him that much.
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Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen View Post
I really give Jesus very little thought
Interesting. How do the above responses jibe with what I read over the holidays (I believe on the SDMB and on other places like Slate) where Jews said there was a "No Jesus rule" in what movies they allowed their kids to watch during the holidays?
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:18 PM
RickG RickG is offline
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Like others, I don't consider Jesus all that much, except insofar as I live in the Modern West, and so the ambient culture is fairly well steeped in Christian references.

What I know of Jesus' teachings strike me as not all that different from Jewish teachings of his time and place. From a theological viewpoint, having God take on a human shape to stand as a sacrificial sin offering is...heretical, at best. The only sane homiletical lesson I can personally take from the story of the binding of Isaac in the Torah is that we are finished with human sacrifice as a way of propitiating God (or gods), and that's one of the breaks of the early Hebrews from the older cults of the region. I've never been clear whether Jesus himself would have approved of that view of his life and death.

But, you know, whatever works for Christians, as long as we don't get the pogroms and expulsions again.
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:21 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Polerius View Post
Interesting. How do the above responses jibe with what I read over the holidays (I believe on the SDMB and on other places like Slate) where Jews said there was a "No Jesus rule" in what movies they allowed their kids to watch during the holidays?
I assume that's shorthand for "no Christmas b.s." It's not specifically about Jesus, but around the holiday Christmas and Jesus get lumped together. You don't have to give Jesus a lot of thought to tell your kids, "turn that crap off."
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Old 02-11-2014, 06:22 PM
Malthus Malthus is offline
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Originally Posted by Polerius View Post
Interesting. How do the above responses jibe with what I read over the holidays (I believe on the SDMB and on other places like Slate) where Jews said there was a "No Jesus rule" in what movies they allowed their kids to watch during the holidays?
Huh? Why should it jibe? Jews are as various in their opinions as other folks - maybe moreso.
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  #11  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:29 PM
beowulff beowulff is offline
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Such a nice Jewish boy.

Why couldn't he have been a doctor or a lawyer?

Oy!
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  #12  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:29 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Originally Posted by Polerius View Post
Interesting. How do the above responses jibe with what I read over the holidays (I believe on the SDMB and on other places like Slate) where Jews said there was a "No Jesus rule" in what movies they allowed their kids to watch during the holidays?
Sorry, no clue. How many "Jesus movies" are there?
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  #13  
Old 02-11-2014, 06:29 PM
Southern Yankee Southern Yankee is offline
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I view him as a 2000-year-old L. Ron Hubbard.
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2014, 07:06 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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Originally Posted by IvoryTowerDenizen View Post
Sorry, no clue. How many "Jesus movies" are there?
Here's an example of an article addressing this issue. An excerpt:
Quote:
Jewish kids of my generation were permitted to watch one or all of: How the Grinch Stole Christmas, A Charlie Brown Christmas, and The Year Without a Santa Claus. ...

I learned this week that there exists an unspoken "no Jesus" rule, a "no Santa" rule (thus no Rudolph), a "no saints" rule (thus no Night Before Christmas),a "no resurrections" rule (even if it's resurrection by proxy; thus no Frosty)

Last edited by Polerius; 02-11-2014 at 07:07 PM..
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  #15  
Old 02-11-2014, 07:10 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Originally Posted by Polerius View Post
Here's an example of an article addressing this issue. An excerpt:
Well, news to me.

We never watched anything really religious, because why would we, but my kids (and me, when I was a kid) grew up on a diet of all those movies.

Last edited by IvoryTowerDenizen; 02-11-2014 at 07:10 PM..
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2014, 07:16 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Polerius View Post
Here's an example of an article addressing this issue. An excerpt:
Wow, that's some crazy stuff there. Maybe some Jews care about that kind of thing, the "challenge" of raising Jewish kids in a Christian world,etc. As a secular Jew, I'm probably not qualified to disagree. But, I am glad me and my kids don't have to worry about it.
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:18 PM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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We never talked about Jesus; he was not a religious figure and was never mentioned in services.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:38 PM
DSeid DSeid is offline
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Don't know much about any No Jesus rule but sure I didn't particularly want my kids when little to watch what would essentially be propaganda for another faith's beliefs. Why would I? No Frosty though? Never heard anyone doing anything like that.

You are really though conflating two questions. What I think about the historical figure of Jesus Christ and how I react to the imposition of the (to my belief) mythologic character of Jesus Christ into my (and kids when little) secular existance are very different things.

As to the first, I find the historical figure to be of some interest. I also find Mohammed and the Buddha to be interesting.

In a related fashion I find how that historic figure became the (again to my way of thinking) myth and how that myth was used by various peoples and cultures over history for good bad and none of the above to be of significant interest as well. It is hard to deal with history and not consider it along the way. The historic figure bears no responsibility for what his myth became and how it was used.

Not something that is a big deal to me though. Intellectually interesting.

The manner that the myth is used in current culture and the way the myth is imposed upon my children in the public sphere is a different matter. To the degree that the myth is part of parcel of being of the culture it sets me and mine as outsider, an insecure place to be. Now a little insecurity is not a bad thing; it drives you. But you don't like your kids feeling like they are outsiders in their own country.

Again, no offense meant in referring to Jesus the myth. I respect the belief. This is discussing from a different perpsective is all.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:49 PM
Flywheel Flywheel is online now
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Such a nice Jewish boy.

Why couldn't he have been a doctor or a lawyer?
What are you kvetching about? He went into his father's business!
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:05 PM
susan susan is offline
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If only he'd married and given me grandchildren.... Such nachas!
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Old 02-11-2014, 10:19 PM
seal_cleaner seal_cleaner is offline
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Years ago a minister at my (Episcopalian) church told me that Jew regarded Jesus as a great prophet, but not divine. I was suspicious, now confirmed.
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  #22  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:23 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Years ago a minister at my (Episcopalian) church told me that Jew regarded Jesus as a great prophet, but not divine. I was suspicious, now confirmed.
Yeah, I was told as kid that he had some good ideas as a teacher (rabbi), but not the messiah (mashiach, who wouldn't be divine anyway) and not someone to be followed.

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  #23  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:27 PM
susan susan is offline
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As a Jew, I find the historical Jesus (as best we know him) much more compelling than the Pauline Christ.
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  #24  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:34 PM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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As a Jew, I find the historical Jesus (as best we know him) much more compelling than the Pauline Christ.
Care to expand on this?
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Old 02-11-2014, 11:24 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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I'm going to chime in and agree that we don't think about him much at all. He has nothing to do with our culture or day to day existence.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:08 AM
Polerius Polerius is offline
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I'm going to chime in and agree that we don't think about him much at all. He has nothing to do with our culture or day to day existence.
I think maybe I didn't phrase my question well, since several people seem to be bringing this up quite a bit.

I didn't mean to ask if you think about him in your day-to-day dealings. I meant, whenever the subject comes up, e.g. during debates on the SDMB or during the holidays when a movie mentions him, etc, what thoughts pop into your head?

As an example, take L. Ron Hubbard (that someone mentioned above). I don't expect Americans to think about him every day, but when the subject of L. Ron Hubbard comes up, I'm sure people have a predetermined/personal response to the mention of his name, which reflects what they think of the man.

Similarly, I don't expect Jews to think about Jesus every day, but when the subject of Jesus comes up, however rarely, I assume people have a predetermined/personal response to the mention of his name, which reflects what they think of the man.

As an aside, if Scientology takes over 1/3 of the Earth's population in 2,000 years, but spreads mostly to countries other than the US, I wonder what Americans will think of him (assuming of course Americans will exist in 2,000 years)
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:39 AM
hajario hajario is offline
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Most Americans don't have an opinion one way or the other about Hubbard either.

As for Jesus, if I were pressed, I'd say that he was a historical figure who spawned a major religion. Historically we know very little about the real man though.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2014, 01:13 AM
ekedolphin ekedolphin is offline
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As a Christian, I found myself nodding in agreement with the last paragraph of post 5, and all of post 6, about how Jesus (if there really is an afterlife) must really be upset by all the things done in His name, and how a significant number of His followers are lunatics. (Only difference from those posts being, obviously, that I do believe in Him).

Every new and then (used to happen with coworkers) I would get asked, "You're a Christian. What's your opinion on [controversial topic]?". I was quick to add, usually, that "I'm a Christian but not THAT type of Christian," (which is a little sad, really), and I sometimes added a further caveat at the end that, "I doubt that's what a lot of churches will tell you, but that's what I believe."

(Apologies if this is a minor hijack.)

Last edited by ekedolphin; 02-12-2014 at 01:14 AM..
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  #29  
Old 02-12-2014, 01:31 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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Jewish kids of my generation were permitted to watch one or all of: How the Grinch Stole Christmas, A Charlie Brown Christmas, and The Year Without a Santa Claus. ...

I learned this week that there exists an unspoken "no Jesus" rule, a "no Santa" rule (thus no Rudolph), a "no saints" rule (thus no Night Before Christmas),a "no resurrections" rule (even if it's resurrection by proxy; thus no Frosty)
This list makes no sense. A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of the most explicitly Christian Christmas shows. And if you have a "no Santa" rule, how do you watch The Year Without a Santa Claus? Santa Claus not only appears in that show but the whole point is how terrible the absence of Santa can be - hardly a message to be showing the kids if you're planning on otherwise denying them any Christmas iconography. And the message of How the Grinch Stole Christmas is about how only bad people hate Christmas iconography - another dubious message if you plan on forbidding the same.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:34 AM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
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If anything, if I believed in a religion in which there was an afterlife and that guys like Jesus was aware of stuff on Earth from beyond the grave, I'd be sorry for him. Imagine his plight, watching from beyond, as people twist his message so profoundly over the centuries and use it for hateful ends. That would truly suck.
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I think he was probably a nice guy but a significant number of his followers are literalist lunatics. Then again one can say the same thing about pretty much any religious figure. Mostly I don't think about him at all.
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As a Christian, I found myself nodding in agreement with the last paragraph of post 5, and all of post 6, about how Jesus (if there really is an afterlife) must really be upset by all the things done in His name, and how a significant number of His followers are lunatics. (Only difference from those posts being, obviously, that I do believe in Him).
Like the joke goes, I'm fine with Jesus himself. It's his fan club that I don't like.
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  #31  
Old 02-12-2014, 02:20 AM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Years ago a minister at my (Episcopalian) church told me that Jew regarded Jesus as a great prophet, but not divine. I was suspicious, now confirmed.
I never got the great prophet idea. Just another of many fake Messiahs with a swelled head.
The good stuff a lot of other people said also.
Basically I thought of Jesus the same way as I think of God today - a folk figure with supposed special powers but without a lot of evidence - something other people believe in, like ghosts and yetis.l
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2014, 02:32 AM
Ranger Jeff Ranger Jeff is offline
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Meh. When I think of Yeshua Ben Yoseph, I think was a self taught Rabbi who went around talking about a form of Reformed Judaism. And he had bad timing*.

I don't blame Jesus for centuries of anti-semitism. He didn't do that. It was his followers. And I'm not offended by the existence of Christianity or Christian holidays. Heck, the best Christmas songs were written by Jews. I'm not thrilled if my tax dollars are spent on Christmas decorations and I wince when public prayers I'm subjected to include phrases like "In Jesus' name" but American Jews learn to accept that. I didn't much like it when I was 7 years old and got beaten up by a bunch of 10 year olds who were on their way home from Easter services featuring a pastor who gave a real stemwinder of a sermon about how the Jews killed Jesus. And I'm against pogroms, deportations, Einsatzgruppen, and death camps.

* That part leads to a huge digression. I'll spoiler it here so you don't have to read through it if you don't want to.

SPOILER:
Oh yeah, this belongs in Great Debates.

In Yeshua's time, Judea was under Roman occupation. And the Romans had this thing called Pax Romana. Which meant, in practical terms, if you do anything that the Romans consider to threaten Roman rule, they'll flog you, nail you to a cross, and leave you hanging there to die. Jerusalem was the religious and political capitol. Except for the Roman's administrative center of government in Caesarea.

So there's a Roman garrison in Jerusalem for police and general security stuff. Maybe think of a couple of companies of troops commanded by a Major. He and the local powers that be (the priests, Herod's troops) have come to an accommodation that generally works. Now, then, here comes Passover. It's a religious festival celebrating the Hebrews escape from slavery. And traditionally, Jews from all over Judea would go to Jerusalem to celebrate the week long festival. It's a joyous time. BUT, there are some people who aren't all that happy about being under Roman occupation. And it's not much of a stretch for them note that Passover is a celebration of freedom yet they're not free, they're occupied.

Okay, think of Ft Lauderdale. It's a fairly quiet beach town most of the time. Then, for a couple of weeks every year, it's inundated with college students who come to town to party and party HARD. And that's more than the local police can handle. So they call in reserve police, the sheriff's department, maybe even the state troopers to help handle stuff.

Well, back in Judea, neither the Roman Governor or the Jerusalem garrison commander are idiots. They know there's going to be a flood of tourists come to town to celebrate. So they beef up the local garrison with a couple more companies of troops. And maybe a Colonel to command the whole thing. A Colonel who really doesn't care about any pre-existing accommodations. He just wants things quiet.

So, in addition to all the tourists there for the festival and going agog at the big city (imagine someone from a small midwestern town visiting New York City for the first time), there's one of a seemingly endless series of itinerant Galilean rabbis coming to town. And this one seems to have a multitude of followers. And some of them are calling him their King, which is a big no-no during a Pax Romana. And if that doesn't draw enough attention to him, one of the first things he does is trash the money changers at the Temple.

Now, the money changers had a legitimate purpose there. Look, one of the reasons you'd want to make a pilgrimage to Jerusalem is to go to the temple and ask a priest for a blessing. Maybe you have a new child you want God to look fondly on, maybe you want to get married, maybe you want to ask God for a favor. Something like that. Well, sure, priests help with that, but they expect a donation and you'd be glad to make one. There wasn't paper money then; there were coins made of precious metals. Issued by different mints, countries, honoring different events and rulers. Generally, it didn't matter what a coin looked like as an ounce of silver is an ounce of silver and an ounce of gold is an ounce of gold. But there's that pesky 2nd commandment: No graven images. And the priests can be sort of hard headed about obeying commandments. So no one is going to offer a priest a coin with Caesar's image on it. Or any person or animal. So they're going to have to go to a money changer to buy "Temple Shekels", coinage with an appropriate image stamped on it (a menorah, a star of David, the 2 tablets of the 10 commandments, maybe the ark of the covenant). So this guy who's been lauded as being the King just committed a major act of mayhem. And that earned him a death sentence from the Romans. The Pharisees weren't consulted. And I don't see why Pilate or Herod would be consulted either, I'm sure the garrison commander had the authority. It was Pax Romana in Occupied Jerusalem and it wasn't not like this Yeshua guy was a Roman Citizen or anyone important or connected.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:58 AM
chappachula chappachula is offline
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"As a Jew, I find the historical Jesus (as best we know him) much more compelling than the Pauline Christ."

Care to expand on this?
For me, it's pretty simple, actually:
Jesus was a social activist.
Paul was a messianic fanatic.

Jesus was a young rabbi , and an outsider who had no access to the halls of power among the elite. He was idealistic enough to think that religion is about morals, not about supporting the clerical bureaucracy. And he said so, and he lived his life that way. Then the crowds got bigger than he expected, he lost control, and let himself be led by events. So he started to think, "hey, maybe I'm more important than I thought"--- But he never intended to start a new religion. His focus was on the local community in Palestine.He would have been happy to change the society he lived in --but he didn't try to change the world.

Paul took things to a much bigger scale.
And he succeeded-- for better and worse.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-2014, 09:04 AM
FriarTed FriarTed is offline
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This list makes no sense. A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of the most explicitly Christian Christmas shows. And if you have a "no Santa" rule, how do you watch The Year Without a Santa Claus? Santa Claus not only appears in that show but the whole point is how terrible the absence of Santa can be - hardly a message to be showing the kids if you're planning on otherwise denying them any Christmas iconography. And the message of How the Grinch Stole Christmas is about how only bad people hate Christmas iconography - another dubious message if you plan on forbidding the same.
What got me was the "no resurrections" rule. Steven Spielberg must have forgotten that when he made E.T.
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  #35  
Old 02-12-2014, 09:07 AM
Malthus Malthus is offline
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Here's an example of an article addressing this issue. An excerpt:
The article was an attempt at humour. Jews like the Grinch, because he's like a grumpy old miserly Jew? That is not intended seriously.

No Jews I personally know of actually had a "no Christmas entertainment" rule of any sort.
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  #36  
Old 02-12-2014, 10:22 AM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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The article was an attempt at humour. Jews like the Grinch, because he's like a grumpy old miserly Jew? That is not intended seriously.

No Jews I personally know of actually had a "no Christmas entertainment" rule of any sort.
I agree, although the article's attempt at humor is pretty scattered. I think the author is trying to make some semi-serious points but it seems mostly tongue-in-cheek to me.

The only thing we weren't permitted to watch growing up was Hogan's Heroes of all things. My dad was adamant about that, about how he didn't like how the Germans were portrayed and how it never referenced the realities of Jews in the camps. He admitted it wasn't a completely logical argument but we went along with it. The Christmas specials were never an issue. But we did go to movies and eat Chinese food for dinner - that was required.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:20 AM
Malthus Malthus is offline
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I agree, although the article's attempt at humor is pretty scattered. I think the author is trying to make some semi-serious points but it seems mostly tongue-in-cheek to me.

The only thing we weren't permitted to watch growing up was Hogan's Heroes of all things. My dad was adamant about that, about how he didn't like how the Germans were portrayed and how it never referenced the realities of Jews in the camps. He admitted it wasn't a completely logical argument but we went along with it. The Christmas specials were never an issue. But we did go to movies and eat Chinese food for dinner - that was required.
The main semi-serious point is that it is sometimes tough being a religious minority immersed in a sea of stuff aimed squarely at the majority, particularly in the context of a much-loved children's holiday that has become mostly secular (but still retains religious overtones).

In our household, growing up, this wasn't a problem, as we quite unashamedly had Christmas complete with tree, stockings, feasting and presents - but minus religion. We knew of course there was a religious background and that Christians viewed the holiday as celebrating the birth of Jesus, but as it turns out, most of the Christmas iconography really has nothing to do with that - trees, decorations, Santa Claus, etc. It is pretty easy to ignore the connection to Jesus, as practically everyone else does, anyway.

Initially, Hannukah made much less impression on me - only when I grew up did I start thinking it was kinda cool, a holiday basically celebrating the overthrow of an insane tyrant. "The Hammer" crushing Antiochus "the god made manifest" is not exactly as heartwarming as Santa Claus, though.
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  #38  
Old 02-12-2014, 11:28 AM
RickG RickG is offline
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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
The only thing we weren't permitted to watch growing up was Hogan's Heroes of all things. My dad was adamant about that, about how he didn't like how the Germans were portrayed and how it never referenced the realities of Jews in the camps. He admitted it wasn't a completely logical argument but we went along with it.
The irony of this is that all of the major German characters in Hogan's Heroes were--I suspect deliberately on the part of the shows creators--played by Jewish actors, and Werner Klemperer only agreed to do the show if Klink's plans were always foiled. Also, Robert Clary, who played LeBeau, was a French Jew liberated from Buchenwald at the end of the war.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:09 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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Originally Posted by RickG View Post
The irony of this is that all of the major German characters in Hogan's Heroes were--I suspect deliberately on the part of the shows creators--played by Jewish actors, and Werner Klemperer only agreed to do the show if Klink's plans were always foiled. Also, Robert Clary, who played LeBeau, was a French Jew liberated from Buchenwald at the end of the war.
I don't know if my dad knew that at the time, but I don't think it was as common knowledge as it is now. Maybe I'll ask him when we next talk.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:10 PM
Miller Miller is online now
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Originally Posted by seal_cleaner View Post
Years ago a minister at my (Episcopalian) church told me that Jew regarded Jesus as a great prophet, but not divine. I was suspicious, now confirmed.
That's Muslims, not Jews, who view Jesus as a prophet.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:24 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
That's Muslims, not Jews, who view Jesus as a prophet.
Jews view him as a very naughty boy.

Or was that Brian?
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:38 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
That's Muslims, not Jews, who view Jesus as a prophet.
Jews don't think much of Mohammed either, for that matter.

The standards for "the real messiah" are so high that I don't think god himself would be able to pass the test. Which gives rise to the question, "Could god create a people so skeptical that they wouldn't even believe in him?" The answer seems to be, YES. Something I imagine vexes god greatly.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:48 PM
RitterSport RitterSport is offline
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
I never got the great prophet idea. Just another of many fake Messiahs with a swelled head.
The good stuff a lot of other people said also.
Basically I thought of Jesus the same way as I think of God today - a folk figure with supposed special powers but without a lot of evidence - something other people believe in, like ghosts and yetis.l
Holy crap, the yeti got Voyager! I, for one, welcome our new yeti overlords.
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  #44  
Old 02-12-2014, 01:15 PM
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
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Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
Jews don't think much of Mohammed either, for that matter.

The standards for "the real messiah" are so high that I don't think god himself would be able to pass the test. Which gives rise to the question, "Could god create a people so skeptical that they wouldn't even believe in him?" The answer seems to be, YES. Something I imagine vexes god greatly.
It's not THAT bad-take a look.
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:53 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
It's not THAT bad-take a look.
Messiah-Shmessiah. A real jew would demand to speak to the supervisor.
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  #46  
Old 02-12-2014, 03:23 PM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is online now
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Whatever else Christianity may have done, it spread aspects of Judaism--notably monotheism and the Old Testament--far wider than they likely would have spread otherwise. The Ten Commandments, the story of the Exodus, the names and tales of the Old Testament prophets, are known to every literate person in the Western world. Do Jews have much of a feeling about this, whether good bad or indifferent?
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:28 PM
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
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Originally Posted by Freddy the Pig View Post
Whatever else Christianity may have done, it spread aspects of Judaism--notably monotheism and the Old Testament--far wider than they likely would have spread otherwise. The Ten Commandments, the story of the Exodus, the names and tales of the Old Testament prophets, are known to every literate person in the Western world. Do Jews have much of a feeling about this, whether good bad or indifferent?
Again, indifferent. We're not an Evangelical religion, so its spread is not important to me. Many of those ideas had been altered or misunderstood, or used against us, so it's hard to feel great about Christianity being our spokesperson.

Even using the term "Old Testament" is problematic. It's not old to us.
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  #48  
Old 02-12-2014, 10:54 PM
the_diego the_diego is offline
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"Not thinking about him" too much if at all explains a lot of things, like Christmas.
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  #49  
Old 02-13-2014, 12:19 AM
Stringbean Stringbean is offline
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Do Jews consider Jesus a Jew?

I mean, he was a Jew...
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:02 AM
Voyager Voyager is offline
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Originally Posted by RitterSport View Post
Holy crap, the yeti got Voyager! I, for one, welcome our new yeti overlords.
Oddly I just finished a skeptical book on cryptozoology, with a chapter on yeti and another on the Loch Ness Mons
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