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Old 06-24-2016, 04:13 PM
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Women - do you think about boffing random strangers?


OK, sorry about the crude title.

Based on this thread, it seems that a large number of women think that men are constantly thinking about having sex with them.

OK, we probably are.

I guess it's true that when I see an attractive woman, some part of me wonders what it would be like to have sex with her. But, that's all it is - just a passing curiosity.

So, my question is - do women ever think the same thing? If they see an attractive guy, do they wonder what it would be like to sleep with them, or is this purely a guy thing?
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:41 PM
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I don't think about sleeping with them, no. My reaction is mostly "look at that ... " followed by looking at it as long as I can without being rude.
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Old 06-24-2016, 04:58 PM
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I tend to imagine killing strangers, the annoying ones at least, more often than anything else and I am probably going to get flamed for this. Women are no less sexual than men, so yes on a level of pure fantasy, never to be indulged in because I am in a committed relationship and my husband trusts me, yes, women, or at least me, do sometimes imagine hooking up with guys they know nothing more about than that they look really sexy. We (all humans of either gender) are probably all wired that way by nature, but as Katherine Hepburn once said, "Nature is what we were put here to rise above."
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Old 06-24-2016, 05:21 PM
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No. I might think "nice eyes" or "what a great smile", but that's about it. I am much more likely to feel a flash of attraction to a man who has impressed me in some way, by seeming smart/funny/confident. Then, I might notice something about his physicality and think "you know, this guy is pretty attractive". Doesn't really work the other way around, as I think it does more so for men (I know everyone is different and there must be many exceptions for both sexes).
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Old 06-24-2016, 06:45 PM
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No way, never have. I don't even think about people sexually at all; it's more of a romance thing with the sex as part of the affection and closeness. I have looked at strangers and thought they were attractive but it's more like looking at a nice statue. I can appreciate it without wanting to hump it.
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Old 06-24-2016, 06:53 PM
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I may think about it, but that is all I do.
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rushgeekgirl View Post
No way, never have. I don't even think about people sexually at all; it's more of a romance thing with the sex as part of the affection and closeness. I have looked at strangers and thought they were attractive but it's more like looking at a nice statue. I can appreciate it without wanting to hump it.
As a male respondent, this is pretty close to what I think. If I see some woman who catches my eye, my thoughts are about what it would be like to be in an intimate relationship with her, doing all the things that such a relationship would encompass.

For this reason, I was pretty much left adrift by the OP's question, and I'm glad you elucidated it this way.

Last edited by jtur88; 06-24-2016 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:09 PM
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Nope. Not that I don't enjoy seeing a sexy or cute guy. I just don't think about doing it with him.
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:33 PM
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Depends on my mood


Firstly, love that term! OK, if I see a guy I find attractive, do I fantasize about having sex with him. Hmmm...Well, I would have to say it depends. Mostly on my mood at that particular moment because that can influence me tremendously. I think more than anything I tend to look at a man's hands & forearms for some crazy reason! If the guy has fairly muscular forearms, they don't have to be weightlifter kind of muscular but just have that look of strength, then I admit I then may think about his hands on my body, etc., & probably will then look at his face & lips & eyes & if all of that is check-check-check I might fantasize about him kissing me or kissing me & touching me - The list goes on & on!
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:33 PM
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I gotta admit, I'm a bit disappointed with these answers.
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Old 06-24-2016, 07:34 PM
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Well, I guess I'll be the first "yes." I'm surprised.
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Old 06-24-2016, 08:08 PM
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At the time I see the sexy guy? Rarely. Later? Yes.

My spank bank is quite nice
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Old 06-24-2016, 08:14 PM
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Yes. I'm surprised there are only three yes responses(so far).

Last edited by Poysyn; 06-24-2016 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 06-24-2016, 08:56 PM
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Yes here, too. I wasn't a stranger to occasional one night stands when I was between boyfriends, back in the 90's. Once the 00's hit, I became more sensible, but the thoughts are still there.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:14 PM
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Yes. I don't have one-night stands as it takes more than physical attraction to get me into bed, but if there's an attractive man I'll most likely wonder about having sex with him.

I do have an SO of 12 years so that puts a damper on one-night stands as well.
  #16  
Old 06-24-2016, 09:41 PM
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No way, never have. I don't even think about people sexually at all; it's more of a romance thing with the sex as part of the affection and closeness. I have looked at strangers and thought they were attractive but it's more like looking at a nice statue. I can appreciate it without wanting to hump it.
ditto. I admire a good-looking person (regardless of apparent sex) but it's kind of the same way I admire a handsome horse or a nice piece of art.
Sexual attraction only gets going once you know someone.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:42 PM
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I don't usually answer threads addressed to "women" because I'm male-bodied, but I do identify as a woman genderwise... I tend to think the people asking these questions aren't likely to be interested in what's going on with me or people like me... but what the hell....

My attraction is such that to find someone visually attractive isn't unusual, to the point that it's sort of background noise almost. Yeah lots of deliciously cute specimens out there. Conscious thought is mostly limited to "Mmm, yummy nice!". I don't conjure up images of us going at it. I don't need to conjure up images, I have a visual already available to me, ya know? I appreciate what I see when I see it.

wipetheclock refers to the spank bank. It's sort of like that but more generic. I think it all gets filed away as additional evidence that those folks are way yummy and I want a chance to play with. Like bank deposits, it builds interest.
  #18  
Old 06-24-2016, 09:49 PM
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"Did you say 'boffing'?"-Steven Franklin
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:53 PM
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I tend to imagine killing strangers, the annoying ones at least, more often than anything else and I am probably going to get flamed for this.
Well, yes. Yes, you probably are going to get flamed for this. You've got a much more deeply entrenched reputation on the board than I had even imagined, for your attitude that the act of any male offering to shake your hand is sexual assault -- at least as far back as 2010 and as recently as just yesterday (June 23, 2016).

A quick Google search immediately turned up at least 10 threads in which you wrote to that effect, and/or it was mentioned by others.

Indeed, you have been flamed already, repeatedly. The top two Google hits were Pit threads: This one (see the third quote in the OP), and this one; both mention your aversion the the poisonous male handshake, among many other choice tidbits.

Even Jimmy Chitwood, famed feminist apologist on this board, has acknowledged that, even in the very act of flaming me for remarking on it myself.
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Old 06-24-2016, 09:53 PM
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I just had the most horrible thought about boffking.
  #21  
Old 06-24-2016, 10:17 PM
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Yes, yes indeed. I don't necessarily want to act on those thoughts, but sometimes I do look at an attractive man and wonder what he's like in bed.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:17 PM
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I notice he's attractive, but I don't think, "I wonder what it would be like to boff him?"

More likely I think, "I wonder what HE'S like?" As in, is he kind, is he sweet, is he funny? Because I can already see he's sexy and attractive!

Quickly moving on to, "Y'know, if I wasn't with...I believe I'd be checking that out!"
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:31 PM
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Almost never - as in twice in my entire life.
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:37 PM
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What Rushgeedgirl (Post #5) and jtur88 (Post #7) said.

Seriously, there's way too much hostility from many of you females because so many of you seem to think that the only thing males want with you is a hot roll in the hay.

There's a whole lot more than that, less male-hostile and less sex-hostile, even mentioned by many female respondents in this very thread, that you don't seem to imagine that males would like also.

A female friend with whom to engage in:
  • Congenial dates, consisting of social or recreational activities together: Day trips at the beach, hike in the redwoods, visit museums -- all the stuff you see ad infinitum in all those on-line personals ads.
  • Companionship
  • Affection, both emotional and physical. Holding hands (e.g., while engaging in the first bullet above), hugging, cuddling, massage, "making out". Clothes on or clothes off. You get the picture. This is all apart from actual sex.
All those "nice guys" and "Nice Guys(tm)" who aren't getting laid, also aren't getting any of the above. The whole concept of "gettingt laid" has become a proxy for all that -- males who complain of not having any "success" with females are actually complaining about not getting any of the above -- yet they are invariably flamed to hell (and not back) for complaining about "not getting laid" -- when, in fact, when you read their complaints, that's not actually what they usually said.

Challenge: Find threads or blogs or whatever on the topic, on this board or elsewhere (other than outright MRA sites), and see how many of actually specifically mention "not getting laid" as their complaint. Mostly, not. Find threads or blogs or whatever where such relationship-challenged males explicitly claim "entitlement" -- you won't find that. (The only case I know of, who explicitly claimed "entitlement", was that guy who shot up the sorority in Santa Barbara a while back, in the manifesto he left.) Yet, in response, such males are invariably thoroughly flamed, reviled, demonized, and vilified because they are accused of just wanting to "get laid" and, falsely, they are accused of feeling "entitled".

What jtur88 said. Just like what Rushgeekgirl said. Males, just as much as females, want the kinds of things that I listed above. And, yes,
SPOILER:
Yes, sex is important too. Males want that as well.
Nobody's flaming any females (well, other than ZPG Zealot) for the rare male-positive things they are writing in this thread. (And thanks to beowulff for raising this topic!) Now, when was the last time any males didn't get flamed for writing/saying/thinking the same things about females?
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Old 06-24-2016, 10:55 PM
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@Rushgeekgirl: Oops, sorry I misspelled your name above.
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Old 06-25-2016, 12:51 AM
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I'd be lying if I didn't say that yeah, I often think about boffing some random hot (to me) dude. Good grief, something got to make me sleepy from time to time.
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Old 06-25-2016, 01:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
What Rushgeedgirl (Post #5) and jtur88 (Post #7) said.

Seriously, there's way too much hostility from many of you females because so many of you seem to think that the only thing males want with you is a hot roll in the hay.

There's a whole lot more than that, less male-hostile and less sex-hostile, even mentioned by many female respondents in this very thread, that you don't seem to imagine that males would like also.

A female friend with whom to engage in:
  • Congenial dates, consisting of social or recreational activities together: Day trips at the beach, hike in the redwoods, visit museums -- all the stuff you see ad infinitum in all those on-line personals ads.
  • Companionship
  • Affection, both emotional and physical. Holding hands (e.g., while engaging in the first bullet above), hugging, cuddling, massage, "making out". Clothes on or clothes off. You get the picture. This is all apart from actual sex.
All those "nice guys" and "Nice Guys(tm)" who aren't getting laid, also aren't getting any of the above. The whole concept of "gettingt laid" has become a proxy for all that -- males who complain of not having any "success" with females are actually complaining about not getting any of the above -- yet they are invariably flamed to hell (and not back) for complaining about "not getting laid" -- when, in fact, when you read their complaints, that's not actually what they usually said.

Challenge: Find threads or blogs or whatever on the topic, on this board or elsewhere (other than outright MRA sites), and see how many of actually specifically mention "not getting laid" as their complaint. Mostly, not. Find threads or blogs or whatever where such relationship-challenged males explicitly claim "entitlement" -- you won't find that. (The only case I know of, who explicitly claimed "entitlement", was that guy who shot up the sorority in Santa Barbara a while back, in the manifesto he left.) Yet, in response, such males are invariably thoroughly flamed, reviled, demonized, and vilified because they are accused of just wanting to "get laid" and, falsely, they are accused of feeling "entitled".

What jtur88 said. Just like what Rushgeekgirl said. Males, just as much as females, want the kinds of things that I listed above. And, yes,
SPOILER:
Yes, sex is important too. Males want that as well.
Nobody's flaming any females (well, other than ZPG Zealot) for the rare male-positive things they are writing in this thread. (And thanks to beowulff for raising this topic!) Now, when was the last time any males didn't get flamed for writing/saying/thinking the same things about females?
This. Said it better than I ever could.
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Old 06-25-2016, 03:02 AM
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Occasionally, yes; how often is a function of how attractive the guys I see are and of the time of the month. One of the signs that I'm about to have my period is that I'll find myself considering guys who would normally not get half a look, much less a second one.




On another note: that whole "a man and a woman can't be friends without sex getting in the way" PoV contains enough manure to fertilize Sahara.
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:50 AM
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Yes, but I don't experience it so much as "wonder what it would be like to have sex with him" as just suddenly feeling all sexual. There's never a feeling of "let's you and me go somewhere now!" just more like "look what lovely lovely sexy men there are in the world, sex is nice!"

The frequency of this response goes up about 1000% when I am ovulating. In fact it is the number one sign that I am ovulating. When I start turning my head in traffic to look at men and going around with a goofy smile all the time I note the symptom and record it along with all my other cyclical events. Also at ovulation the attractiveness threshold needed to provoke this response goes way down.
  #30  
Old 06-25-2016, 06:03 AM
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Sometimes yes, especially later as mentioned by wipetheclock.
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Old 06-25-2016, 09:13 AM
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Thanks for the responses, folks.

Sometimes, these Male vs Female threads make me feel that men are the only ones who have a sex drive. It's nice to know that regardless of what some people think, both men and women are sexual creatures.
  #32  
Old 06-25-2016, 09:29 AM
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I'm going to vote yes.
  #33  
Old 06-25-2016, 09:56 AM
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Thanks for the responses, folks.

Sometimes, these Male vs Female threads make me feel that men are the only ones who have a sex drive. It's nice to know that regardless of what some people think, both men and women are sexual creatures.
I don't know anyone who thinks that women aren't sexual creatures. Just - as a generalization and remember that people are individuals - women tend to be pickier and need more mental engagement than "I'd hit that" - most of the time.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:01 AM
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No. I want to know a person before I boff them.

Yeah, it's a perversion, I guess.
  #35  
Old 06-25-2016, 11:03 AM
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If I see a really hot guy I might think "damn, dude is hot!!" and talking to him I might blush and get a little flustered but I don't think I've ever thought I'd like to have sex with him. Penises are funny little guys and the attraction is to the person it's attached to, not to it.
  #36  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:52 PM
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Sometimes, these Male vs Female threads make me feel that men are the only ones who have a sex drive. It's nice to know that regardless of what some people think, both men and women are sexual creatures.
What comes out in all these male-hostile threads about what pigs all males are -- and even in not-so-male-hostile threads like this one -- is that the females would like to have real relationships with males -- maybe even including sex -- with males and that males (hang onto your seats for this) even feel likewise -- BUT...

That male-hostile females have utterly obstructed and forbidden any mechanism by which such relationships can be initiated. Even simple "flirting" is rape now (on college campuses anyway). Males don't dare say a kind word or give an "approving" glance toward a female without being vilified. Even if there are some not-so-male-hostile females around (as this thread, astonishingly, seems to imply), how do you imagine you can get acquainted with any males when all males have to walk on such precarious eggshells every waking moment -- a phenomenon I just recently dubbed "EWM" (Existing While Male). ?

Last edited by Senegoid; 06-25-2016 at 12:54 PM.
  #37  
Old 06-25-2016, 02:22 PM
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I just looked up "spank bank" at onelook.com which searches over 1000 dictionaries. Not one of them recognized the phrase. Even the wildly open-minded UrbanDictionary.com has never seen it.

I now feel a little less unhip about not knowing "spank bank." By the way, urbandictionary.com accepts new entries, so wipetheclock might want to add to their data bank. I have a few words in there myself, including "twitterary".
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  #38  
Old 06-25-2016, 02:39 PM
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Even if there are some not-so-male-hostile females around (as this thread, astonishingly, seems to imply)
I know you have "issues" but do you really believe that virtually all women on earth are "male-hostile"? Are you routinely attacked (physically and/or verbally) on a regular basis by these swarms of "male-hostile females"? If the world is full of "male-hostile females" why is the world ruled by men? Wouldn't these millions of "male-hostile females" just take over?

Or do you just have mental health issues and an attitude that turns women off?
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Old 06-25-2016, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloatyGimpy View Post
I know you have "issues" but do you really believe that virtually all women on earth are "male-hostile"? Are you routinely attacked (physically and/or verbally) on a regular basis by these swarms of "male-hostile females"? If the world is full of "male-hostile females" why is the world ruled by men? Wouldn't these millions of "male-hostile females" just take over?

Or do you just have mental health issues and an attitude that turns women off?
Take any personal attacks to the Pit, but leave them out of this thread.
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Old 06-25-2016, 06:38 PM
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Take any personal attacks to the Pit, but leave them out of this thread.
Give her a pass, Asimovian. If we can't have this discussion, even including responses like that, then we can't have this thread here. Move this whole thread to the Pit if you think that's needed.
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Old 06-25-2016, 06:41 PM
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Or do you just have mental health issues and an attitude that turns women off?
I just posted a really long post over in the "Fat Chicks" ( <old rolleyes> ) thread, pretty much addressing this.

TL;DR: Actual "nice guys" (not "Nice Guys(tm)") go for years and years -- possibly even their whole lives -- without ever having a "relationship" (which doesn't just mean "sex"), until they eventually evolve into angry, resentful, embittered "Nice Guys(tm)" who just pretend to be nice -- and then even beyond to the point of not even trying to be nice. Can you blame such guys?
  #42  
Old 06-25-2016, 06:48 PM
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Taking another look at FloatingGimpy's quote of my earlier post, ISTM that was actually a seriously sour-cherry-picked excerpt from the whole post that I wrote. Way to make a really baddddd guy (I really wish we still had that old roll-eyes un-smilie) look even baddder.
  #43  
Old 06-25-2016, 08:37 PM
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Strangers (or dudes I'm meeting for the first time), no. I might think he's so incredibly handsome it's like looking at the sun, or dear GOD, his voice is making me weak in the knees, or whatever, but I don't visualize having sex with him. It's like it just doesn't occur to me.

Men I know? Sometimes, but not often. (It depends on his voice. ) Seriously, though, when I find someone so attractive that it leads to Thoughts About Him, I'm usually thinking about kissing him or running my hands through his hair....something more romantic/erotic than outright sexual. The sexual thoughts don't come until we're in a relationship or a relationship between us is imminent, because for me sex is a direct expression of the affection I feel for him. Some random man could be my physical ideal, but if I don't know the guy, I don't have any affection for him to express, so....it just doesn't occur to me to think about us getting it on.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:58 PM
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I just posted a really long post over in the "Fat Chicks" ( <old rolleyes> ) thread, pretty much addressing this.

TL;DR: Actual "nice guys" (not "Nice Guys(tm)") go for years and years -- possibly even their whole lives -- without ever having a "relationship" (which doesn't just mean "sex"), until they eventually evolve into angry, resentful, embittered "Nice Guys(tm)" who just pretend to be nice -- and then even beyond to the point of not even trying to be nice. Can you blame such guys?
I have to wonder about them. Are their standards too high? Do they have unspeakable body odor? Because THE MOST ANNOYING MAN I KNOW married not one, but two women (the first one died - they were very happy together, she passed away very young of cancer). Now, this is a truly nice guy. It isn't his fault that most people can barely stand to be in a room with him for more than half an hour - well it is - the incessant Star Trek puns, the very loud voice. However, not one, but two, women found the overpowering voice and need to make a pun out of everything (plus the completely average job, his dedication to geek fandom, his "teddy bear" physique) to be attractive enough to marry him. Though, honestly, I suspect it was that he is really a nice person.

Now, neither woman would stop traffic with her looks, but I knew his first wife pretty well - and she was a wonderful woman who was perfectly average looking. And I've met his second wife on a few occasions, and she seemed fairly normal, and kinda cute, in the short and curvy way.

This is not a man more than average in the looks department - he looks like a guy deeply invested in fandom should look. This is not a man with a ton of money. I suspect this is a guy who understood how to talk to the woman no one talks to. A guy who, at some level, despite what I would consider an OVERWHELMING personality, picks up signals. I've know him 30 years (God, maybe going on 35 - I'm getting old), and he has never invaded my boundaries in a creepy way. Not when I was cute and 17, not now that I'm 50.
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Old 06-26-2016, 02:50 AM
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@Dangerosa, thank you for a response that is at least civil -- although to be sure, I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to parse just what point(s) you're trying to make -- hey, it's late here. I'm still thinking about it.

It looks like you're citing evidence that even a fairly obnoxious male can get, not one, but two wives, leading to the conclusion that all those angry bitter males who can never get so much as a coffee date must have something mighty mighty wrong with them after all, even before they became angry and bitter, QED. Am I on the right track here, as far as I've figured it out it so far? Is that the point(s) you're trying to make?

(ETA: Among the several current related threads that I am allegedly "all over", I'm not entirely sure which one this little side-conversation best belongs in.)

Last edited by Senegoid; 06-26-2016 at 02:54 AM.
  #46  
Old 06-26-2016, 06:50 AM
KarlGrenze is offline
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I don't get Senegoid's response in this thread. The OP was started by a man seeking primarily women's opinions and thoughts about challenging a set of stereotypes. And none of the responses are male-hostile. The post looks more like thread-shitting. Is that allowed?
  #47  
Old 06-26-2016, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
@Dangerosa, thank you for a response that is at least civil -- although to be sure, I'm having a bit of a hard time trying to parse just what point(s) you're trying to make -- hey, it's late here. I'm still thinking about it.

It looks like you're citing evidence that even a fairly obnoxious male can get, not one, but two wives, leading to the conclusion that all those angry bitter males who can never get so much as a coffee date must have something mighty mighty wrong with them after all, even before they became angry and bitter, QED. Am I on the right track here, as far as I've figured it out it so far? Is that the point(s) you're trying to make?

(ETA: Among the several current related threads that I am allegedly "all over", I'm not entirely sure which one this little side-conversation best belongs in.)
Yes. Although this guy is not fairly obnoxious. This is the guy who gets invited places because of the Geek Social Fallacies. And because he volunteers and joins in the groups in which those fallacies operate. But he is kind. And he does seek people out to talk to. And I suspect he handles rejection really well - but he also gets signaling enough that he isn't just taking stabs in the dark to get shot down - I was friends with his first wife during their courtship and it was more of the month long elaborate circling courtship dance of a bird, than the jump and hump of a dog. And unlike men who get bitter, I think if she would have rejected him at the end of the dance, he would have been friends with her - the dance was equal parts courtship and an offer of friendship.

I don't know that they guys who don't succeed have something mighty wrong with THEM. But there is something wrong. Who they approach. How they approach. Or maybe they need to stop letting the cat pee on the laundry.

And I suspect internet dating has made it worse. As I said, I've known this guy for a long time - well before internet dating was a thing. He met both his wives at clubs. Places where strangers meet, talk, see each other the next week at the next event/meeting, talk more, start hanging out. Where you start with something in common - a shared love of rolling dice and a hatred of orcs, the ice breaker of "who is your favorite Doctor or Star Trek captain?" And where you have to keep seeing someone if you reject them - or are rejected - unless you are going to leave the club. Not the find a profile, email a few times, meet for coffee, and then - most of the time - get rejected. That old fashioned sort of courtship - its both higher and lower risk.

Last edited by Dangerosa; 06-26-2016 at 08:09 AM.
  #48  
Old 06-26-2016, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Senegoid View Post
I just posted a really long post over in the "Fat Chicks" ( <old rolleyes> ) thread, pretty much addressing this.

TL;DR: Actual "nice guys" (not "Nice Guys(tm)") go for years and years -- possibly even their whole lives -- without ever having a "relationship" (which doesn't just mean "sex"), until they eventually evolve into angry, resentful, embittered "Nice Guys(tm)" who just pretend to be nice -- and then even beyond to the point of not even trying to be nice. Can you blame such guys?
Not to perpetuate a theme on this thread, but... you said that better than I did. ( = on the Nice Guys thread of a month or so ago)
  #49  
Old 06-26-2016, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by KarlGrenze View Post
I don't get Senegoid's response in this thread. The OP was started by a man seeking primarily women's opinions and thoughts about challenging a set of stereotypes. And none of the responses are male-hostile. The post looks more like thread-shitting. Is that allowed?

Me neither. But I tried reporting it as such and I can't get that function to work on my cell since Tapatalk upgraded again. So, I suppose the question is whether enough (any?) people have reported him.
  #50  
Old 06-26-2016, 10:21 AM
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Give her a pass, Asimovian. If we can't have this discussion, even including responses like that, then we can't have this thread here. Move this whole thread to the Pit if you think that's needed.
Actually, I think the entire discussion about whether male-vs-female behavior threads are "male-hostile," as you put it, belongs elsewhere. Whether or not that is in the Pit is not really at issue here—I don't believe there's any justification for this thread going into the Pit.

Senegoid, while I realize you were initially responding to beowulff's comment, this has become a hijack at this point. So to you and to anyone else who wants to continue that particular discussion, please take it elsewhere.

Also, KarlGrenze, if you think someone is violating the rules, please report the post. I did not initially view this as threadshitting because I did believe Senegoid was responding to a post from the OP. But as I just noted, it has definitely taken the discussion off-track now.

So again, to everyone, let's please refocus on the question asked in the OP. Thanks.
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