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  #1  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:52 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Could a shark live on pastrami only?

See query.

For once I'm not going to give the back story on an OP. But there is one.
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2016, 06:55 PM
running coach running coach is online now
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Why not? It's meat.
  #3  
Old 07-24-2016, 08:32 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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First, the respect for GQ rules is exemplary (i.e., even _my_ fingers were itching to note that they must have CelRay as well.

A friend and I were in the dog park talking about shark defense with magnetic fields, which led to general shark physiology mixed with the perennial dog physiology question (on GQ and elsewhere) "what about vegetables?" ("You could dress like a carrot...")

So that's 1).

And then I wondered about spices and irritants, and the idea of plant and animals toxins to some predators, and then...pepper, salt, and (I got interested here, from my rough knowledge of salting, the salt processing of aquatic animals--and the particular ammonia business of the shark--and sodium nitrate, in massive doses, and the 50% lethal dosage for sharks.

That's 2).

Each--although wise men may differ--a not-insanely stupid question about sharks.

And, for shorthand, pastrami.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 07-24-2016 at 08:36 PM.
  #4  
Old 07-24-2016, 09:23 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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No rye? No brown mustard? That's just cruel.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:08 PM
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He can, but he gets this urge to stop eating on Yom Kippur.
(Sorry, as we've seen, the jokes just write themselves.)
I wonder what fat does to a shark, to be serious.
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:22 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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To the best of my knowledge, the LD50 of pastrami for sharks has yet to be determined.

Perhaps the OP should apply for a grant.
  #7  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:45 AM
gkster gkster is offline
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About Voyager's concern with what fat does to a shark: they like fat. Seals, which can be 50% fat, form a major part of the shark's diet
http://animals.howstuffworks.com/fis...eat-white2.htm
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:38 AM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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The only significant way that pastrami differs from fresh meat is in the salt content, but sharks, being ocean creatures, are used to high concentrations of salt.
  #9  
Old 07-25-2016, 06:07 AM
jz78817 jz78817 is online now
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Why not? It's meat.
because carnivorous animals need more than just "meat." you're forgetting that many/most of them consume their entire prey, including the internal organs (which concentrate a lot of vitamins/micronutrients) and the contents of their prey's digestive system.

it's like cats, people hear they're obligate carnivores and think that means they can "only eat meat." which is wrong, they do consume plant matter. they just let their prey partially digest it for them.
  #10  
Old 07-25-2016, 11:49 AM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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Right. Pastrami will be edible for sharks, but it probably won't provide the complete suite of nutrients that whole prey would. I don't know what if any vitamin requirements sharks have, but some components of meat are going to be degraded by the process of brining.
  #11  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:00 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Ok, now this might lead to a huge drift-->hijack (I don't want to abandon my sharks), but sharks are fish; I've heard about piranhas, I guess, but for the mild-mannered innumerable inoffensive guppies and their cousins, they need protein, no? Are those fish "herbivores" or what?

Also, as cx to OP: pastrami as served fresh can/will be cured with sodium nitrite, not sodium nitrate, as the curing times are quite short.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 07-25-2016 at 12:02 PM.
  #12  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:10 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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This is full text available on feeding ecology of the lemon shark, with suggestions for other types (species?) of shark.

Research on specifics on their nutrient requirements is cited, but I haven't the time to chase them down, or their online follow ups. Gotta get that grant.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...9f5a1ddd9d.pdf
  #13  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:21 PM
dracoi dracoi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
Ok, now this might lead to a huge drift-->hijack (I don't want to abandon my sharks), but sharks are fish; I've heard about piranhas, I guess, but for the mild-mannered innumerable inoffensive guppies and their cousins, they need protein, no? Are those fish "herbivores" or what?

Also, as cx to OP: pastrami as served fresh can/will be cured with sodium nitrite, not sodium nitrate, as the curing times are quite short.
There are plenty of fish that eat algae or other plant material. Heck, there's even a close relative of the piranha (the pacu) that likes to eat fruit and nuts dropped by trees, though they are not strictly herbivores.
  #14  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:32 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
Ok, now this might lead to a huge drift-->hijack (I don't want to abandon my sharks), but sharks are fish; I've heard about piranhas, I guess, but for the mild-mannered innumerable inoffensive guppies and their cousins, they need protein, no? Are those fish "herbivores" or what?
Most fish feed at least partly on animal matter (insects, small crustaceans, etc.). However, there are plenty of herbivorous fish, but of course plants contain protein and minerals as well, just in lower concentrations than in animals.
  #15  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:40 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
...Most fish feed at least partly on animal matter (insects, small crustaceans, etc.). However, there are plenty of herbivorous fish, but of course plants contain protein and minerals as well, just in lower concentrations than in animals. [Ital added]
1) But some fish, like shark, the protein requirement shifts way the other way? -- Like for us, the (unnatural-evolutionary-speaking) vegetarians among us, who have to eat extra-protein-rich vegetable matter like pulses, etc.?

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 07-25-2016 at 12:43 PM.
  #16  
Old 07-25-2016, 12:44 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Yes, Leo. Fish are animals. And they're made of protein. I'm not sure what you're asking.

And now that you've edited your post to exclude point 2), I'm really lost.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 07-25-2016 at 12:45 PM.
  #17  
Old 07-25-2016, 01:18 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
1) But some fish, like shark, the protein requirement shifts way the other way? -- Like for us, the (unnatural-evolutionary-speaking) vegetarians among us, who have to eat extra-protein-rich vegetable matter like pulses, etc.?
Herbivores and carnivores have similar requirements for protein. Herbivores just have to eat more (or especially protein-rich) plant material to get it (or else they have to grow slower).
  #18  
Old 07-25-2016, 01:26 PM
Bill Door Bill Door is online now
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Sharks eat fish whole and get minerals from their skeletons. Sharks are cartilaginous, not boney, but I have to assume they require at least some calcium and magnesium. Probably long term it would be bad for the shark's skeleton and nervous system.
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Old 07-25-2016, 01:34 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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Sharks eat fish whole and get minerals from their skeletons. Sharks are cartilaginous, not boney, but I have to assume they require at least some calcium and magnesium. Probably long term it would be bad for the shark's skeleton and nervous system.
Although a shark's skeleton is mostly cartilaginous, it is often partly calcified. They may need less mineral content in their diets than bony fish, but they do need some.
  #20  
Old 07-25-2016, 01:42 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
Yes, Leo...

And now that you've edited your post to exclude point 2), I'm really lost.
or or or

Either way, no fair!
  #21  
Old 07-25-2016, 01:44 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
Herbivores and carnivores have similar requirements for protein. Herbivores just have to eat more (or especially protein-rich) plant material to get it (or else they have to grow slower).
Huh. Never seen that so concisely and clearly put.
  #22  
Old 07-25-2016, 01:55 PM
panache45 panache45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jz78817 View Post
because carnivorous animals need more than just "meat." you're forgetting that many/most of them consume their entire prey, including the internal organs (which concentrate a lot of vitamins/micronutrients) and the contents of their prey's digestive system.

it's like cats, people hear they're obligate carnivores and think that means they can "only eat meat." which is wrong, they do consume plant matter. they just let their prey partially digest it for them.
Of course a shark needs more than just meat. That's where the seeded rye and mustard come in. And a dill pickle. Gotta have a pickle. And don't forget some cole slaw and a Cel-Ray. Or perhaps and egg cream. The sharks will be begging for more.
  #23  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:25 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
or or or

Either way, no fair!
If that's how you feel about honest attempts to answer your questions, I'll remember that before answering your questions in the future.
  #24  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:26 PM
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Of course not; they'd suffocate waiting in line for their sandwich. Even so, would they eat the pickle, too?
  #25  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:30 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Wait, it was friendly!!!!

I posted it that way because God knows my posts/mind/questions are confused to begin with, and by editing my rough draft within the time window, I tried to clear away another part of intellect-query backstory, which even I thought was either too stupid in context of more important question, or side-tracking, or just simply wrong-- all of which I decided was in my (now)-infamous and unrecorded Point 2).

That's all...

I wouldn't have posted snark in response to you.


ETA: to Qadgop #23 above.

Last edited by Leo Bloom; 07-25-2016 at 02:32 PM.
  #26  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:37 PM
Channing Idaho Banks Channing Idaho Banks is offline
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A planet made entirely of pastrami?
  #27  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:40 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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in my (now)-infamous and unrecorded Point 2).
But deep beneath the sea of the Planet of the Zwilniks, Qadgop the Mercotan records and remembers . . .

Very well. I will perchance ponder your future queries. IF it so amuses me.
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  #28  
Old 07-25-2016, 03:49 PM
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KNOCK KNOCK!
"Who's there?"
"Salami Shark!"
"Oh, thank goodness, I only have pastrami. One moment ..."

Duh Dum Duh Dum Duh Dum ...
  #29  
Old 07-26-2016, 01:58 AM
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Seems to me the question is a matter of calculating the nutrients available in pastrami, and comparing them with the nutrients required for sharks. The former is easy to find, so we need someone to post about the latter.

To get that started, I will posit that a shark probably has the same nutritional requirements that we do except that they may make things within themselves that we don't make, or not make things we do make. So perhaps looking at that would be useful.

For example, do they make Vitamin C? not a lot of that in Pastrami. But a lot of animals do, even though we don't. If they don't, either, then pastrami would not work.
  #30  
Old 07-26-2016, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
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Seems to me the question is a matter of calculating the nutrients available in pastrami, and comparing them with the nutrients required for sharks. The former is easy to find, so we need someone to post about the latter.

To get that started, I will posit that a shark probably has the same nutritional requirements that we do except that they may make things within themselves that we don't make, or not make things we do make. So perhaps looking at that would be useful.

For example, do they make Vitamin C? not a lot of that in Pastrami. But a lot of animals do, even though we don't. If they don't, either, then pastrami would not work.
That's what the banana peppers are for.
  #31  
Old 07-26-2016, 08:30 AM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Seems to me the question is a matter of calculating the nutrients available in pastrami, and comparing them with the nutrients required for sharks. The former is easy to find, so we need someone to post about the latter.

To get that started, I will posit that a shark probably has the same nutritional requirements that we do except that they may make things within themselves that we don't make, or not make things we do make. So perhaps looking at that would be useful.

For example, do they make Vitamin C? not a lot of that in Pastrami. But a lot of animals do, even though we don't. If they don't, either, then pastrami would not work.
See post #12. Have at it...
  #32  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:04 AM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Whole thread has turned into a shark sandwich . . .

  #33  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:16 AM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Openfaced Mako, when quoted uncited.
  #34  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:36 AM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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I was thinking of the album by Spinal Tap . . .
  #35  
Old 07-26-2016, 10:42 AM
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I was thinking of the album by Spinal Tap . . .
Silent But Deadly would also fit...
  #36  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:43 AM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
Whole thread has turned into a shark sandwich . . .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo Bloom View Post
Openfaced Mako, when quoted uncited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qadgop the Mercotan View Post
I was thinking of the album by Spinal Tap . . .
Openfaced Mako (Hammerhead, 1980): Bootleg album. Outtakes from Shark Sandwich sessions, including studio banter. Includes never-released XXX version of "Sex Farm."
cite: http://www.spinaltapfan.com/atozed/TAP00381.HTM
  #37  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:45 AM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Also standard offering on Trinidad. Article and sample recipe: http://www.caribjournal.com/2013/08/...h-in-trinidad/
  #38  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:51 AM
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For my grad school work, I studied salmon food chains in the open ocean. There's a species of shark called - the Salmon Shark - whose diet for large amounts of time is, you guessed it, salmon. These salmon (large adult salmon - the sharks follow the returning runs) feed mainly on squid, and the squid feed mainly on crustaceans - krill and copepods - and finally those crustaceans feed on phytoplankton.

So the Salmon Sharks are 3 jumps from plants, so not a lot of direct "pre-digested" plant consumption going on. They eat the whole salmon of course. While I don't know their nutrient requirements, if nothing else, they get a good dose of carotenoids that way.

Last edited by squidfood; 07-26-2016 at 11:52 AM.
  #39  
Old 07-26-2016, 12:18 PM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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Username--grad school suggests this topic is your bread and butter.
  #40  
Old 07-26-2016, 03:10 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Quote:
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Openfaced Mako (Hammerhead, 1980): Bootleg album. Outtakes from Shark Sandwich sessions, including studio banter. Includes never-released XXX version of "Sex Farm."
cite: http://www.spinaltapfan.com/atozed/TAP00381.HTM
Gotta get me that version of "Sex Farm"!!

Locate a copy for me and I'll even think of you in terms of Leopold instead of Leo.
  #41  
Old 07-26-2016, 03:19 PM
misling misling is offline
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This phrase farther up the thread caught my eye:
"mild-mannered innumerable inoffensive guppies "
I distinctly remember that my guppies, while they lived on fish food, would eat smaller fishes (such as baby guppies) whenever opportunity offered.
  #42  
Old 07-26-2016, 05:11 PM
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Dietary metal and macro-nutrient intakes of juvenile lemon sharks determined from the nutritional composition of prey items

Last edited by astro; 07-26-2016 at 05:12 PM.
  #43  
Old 07-26-2016, 09:03 PM
squidfood squidfood is offline
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"Macro" nutrients means the big bulk categories - protein, fats, & carbs. The vitamin question isn't addressed in there though. Overall, they need more or less the same complement of vitamins that we do.

Bony (non-shark) fish mostly don't synthesize vitamin C, and I thought the same true of sharks; however the below article tells us that "primitive" fishes including sharks and lampreys DO synthesize vitamin C: Ascorbate synthesis in fishes: A review. I didn't know that!

Beyond that, I'm finding many references that fish (in aquaculture) are best grown with fish meal and fish oil, as this is the "right blend of nutrients", but not any hard quantification for sharks - pastrami is likely missing a few that they get through diets... I also learned that bottled phytoplankton is a woo health supplement at $30/1oz bottle... forget the pastrami, the sharks are getting the expensive stuff already.

Last edited by squidfood; 07-26-2016 at 09:04 PM.
  #44  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:04 PM
Princhester Princhester is offline
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Originally Posted by panache45 View Post
Of course a shark needs more than just meat. That's where the seeded rye and mustard come in. And a dill pickle. Gotta have a pickle. And don't forget some cole slaw and a Cel-Ray. Or perhaps and egg cream. The sharks will be begging for more.
And the person who made them the sammich.
  #45  
Old 07-26-2016, 11:59 PM
AnalogSignal AnalogSignal is offline
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What a bizarre question. Sharks love corned beef and knishes but never eat pastrami.
  #46  
Old 07-27-2016, 08:41 AM
MacLir MacLir is offline
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Originally Posted by dracoi View Post
There are plenty of fish that eat algae or other plant material. Heck, there's even a close relative of the piranha (the pacu) that likes to eat fruit and nuts dropped by trees, though they are not strictly herbivores.
Is that the one that at least in jungle legend bites "nuts"?
  #47  
Old 07-27-2016, 11:13 AM
dracoi dracoi is offline
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Is that the one that at least in jungle legend bites "nuts"?
I hadn't heard of that, but Wikipedia does have section claiming that it's a false rumor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacu#I...esticle-biting

They do eat tree nuts, though.
  #48  
Old 07-27-2016, 11:18 AM
Leo Bloom Leo Bloom is online now
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And the person who made them the sammich.
Apparently not:
DO SHARKS REALLY NOT LIKE HOW HUMANS TASTE?
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....ly-like-taste/

Man the Serens keep a'Dipping on this topic. Uncanny. (Tuna joke not intended.)
  #49  
Old 07-27-2016, 12:35 PM
Thuringwethil Thuringwethil is offline
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I believe this thread has jumped the shark!
  #50  
Old 07-27-2016, 12:42 PM
Bill Door Bill Door is online now
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Apparently not:
DO SHARKS REALLY NOT LIKE HOW HUMANS TASTE?
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index....ly-like-taste/

Man the Serens keep a'Dipping on this topic. Uncanny. (Tuna joke not intended.)
That's true according to the local chamber of commerce. Every time somebody gets bitten by a shark they come out with a press release about "investigatory bites". You see, the poor sharks have limited tools to explore their environments with, and most of those tools turn out to be teeth.
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