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Old 07-03-2017, 07:21 AM
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How the Left Lost Its Mind

Last month, Democratic Senator Ed Markey delivered what seemed like an explosive bit of news during an interview with CNN: A grand jury had been impaneled in New York, he said, to investigate the Trump campaign’s alleged collusion with Russia.

The only problem: It wasn’t true.

The precise origins of the rumor are difficult to pin down, but it had been ricocheting around social media for days before Markey’s interview. The story had no reliable sourcing, and not a single credible news outlet touched it—but it had been fervently championed by The Palmer Report, a liberal blog known for peddling conspiracy theories, and by anti-Trump Twitter crusaders like Louise Mensch. Soon enough, prominent people with blue checkmarks by their names were amplifying it with “Big if true”-type Tweets. And by May 11, the story had migrated from the bowels of the internet to the mouth of a United States senator.
...
In recent months, some of the most irresponsible actors in this world have proven alarmingly adept at influencing venerated figures of the left—from public intellectuals, to world-famous celebrities, to elected officials.
Ok, you lost me. How does any of that refute that the tweet - which is the topic of this thread - is childish, irresponsible and bullying?
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:10 AM
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Thank you, Okrahoma. It is a troubling trend, and I've personally been very alarmed by the skyrocketing popularity and widespread influence of the Palmer Report and Louise Mensch on the Left ever since I first heard about them a few seconds ago when I read your post.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:30 AM
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Well, that was like shitting your pants to avoid answering a hard question.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:41 AM
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There is a video of the President of the United States, beating up the husband of one of his Cabinet members.

Words I did not think I would ever write before 2016. The Trump administration is awesome dude.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:55 AM
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Well, that was like shitting your pants to avoid answering a hard question.
As a bonus, it'll keep him from being drafted.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:59 AM
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BTW, all those people who think Trump's tweet was "inciting violence", did you also think that that New York play that showed someone assassinating a Trump figure was "inciting murder" as well? How about Kathy Griffin - was that a "joke" or "inciting murder"?

And try to answer the question asked and not deflect to who was doing it.
If you had ever seen the play, or knew how often popular figures are portrayed in that role, you would realize how stupid a question that is.
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:49 AM
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BTW, all those people who think Trump's tweet was "inciting violence", did you also think that that New York play that showed someone assassinating a Trump figure was "inciting murder" as well? How about Kathy Griffin - was that a "joke" or "inciting murder"?

And try to answer the question asked and not deflect to who was doing it.
Were you aware that at least the last 5 presidents have also been cast as the Caesar character in productions of Julius Caesar over the last couple decades? Do you know what the play actually means?
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:05 PM
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Were you aware that at least the last 5 presidents have also been cast as the Caesar character in productions of Julius Caesar over the last couple decades? Do you know what the play actually means?
Yes. You're mistaking me for someone who thinks that the play incited murder. I don't think it did. And I don't think Trump's joke was inciting violence. But if someone thinks that Trump's tweet "incited violence" then logically they have to admit that the play incited murder.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:14 PM
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Yes. You're mistaking me for someone who thinks that the play incited murder. I don't think it did. And I don't think Trump's joke was inciting violence. But if someone thinks that Trump's tweet "incited violence" then logically they have to admit that the play incited murder.
That's not how logic works.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:15 PM
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If you had ever seen the play, or knew how often popular figures are portrayed in that role, you would realize how stupid a question that is.

I think he probably believes Shakespeare is a left wing pundit on cnn.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:17 PM
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Yes. You're mistaking me for someone who thinks that the play incited murder. I don't think it did. And I don't think Trump's joke was inciting violence. But if someone thinks that Trump's tweet "incited violence" then logically they have to admit that the play incited murder.
:shrug: Incite violence against MSM? Maybe, donno.

I do know that it was a moronic and childish thing to tweet. Just like our President.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:21 PM
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If it was the only outlandish thing done by Trump, and say done on April 1st, it would actually be pretty funny in my view. It was like Justin Trudeau challenging Matthew Perry to a fight this passed April Fool's Day. But with Trump it is just another in a long line of tweets, speeches, actions that speak to his lack of character.
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:22 PM
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And it turns out the person who originally made the video in question is an antisemite. I'm shocked! SHOCKED! I tell you.

(he also posted on reddit a graphic of every Jewish person who works for CNN marked with a blue Jewish star).
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Old 07-03-2017, 12:33 PM
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To be honest, I wish CNN hadn't taken the victim role in this. They could have risen above Trump's display of immaturity with some dignified humor, but they chose to make it look like their lives are in danger. That just feeds into Trump's ego and makes them look like bitches.

Besides, if Trump does somehow arrange for CNN to be physically attacked, that would be the greatest thing to ever happen to them. How many other news organizations actually provoked a president into a scuffle, and how bad would that ruin his career and get the 25th Amendment forces stoked to remove his orange ass?
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:28 PM
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We like this country as much as the republicans do and we are trying to do what's best for it.
Except come out and vote.
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Old 07-03-2017, 06:35 PM
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Except come out and vote.
And how's that working out for you? You're liking the way Trump is handling things?

See, for the people who still support Trump, this sort of thing IS what they like. It doesn't matter what Trump does or doesn't do, what matters is that he insults people they don't like and that's enough for them.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:03 PM
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Yes. You're mistaking me for someone who thinks that the play incited murder. I don't think it did. And I don't think Trump's joke was inciting violence. But if someone thinks that Trump's tweet "incited violence" then logically they have to admit that the play incited murder.
If see you came back but didn't answer my question. You probably just missed it, it's post 51.
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Old 07-03-2017, 09:52 PM
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If see you came back but didn't answer my question. You probably just missed it, it's post 51.
You think you have some "gotcha" question? Yes, it is childish (as a lot of jokes are). I don't find it irresponsible or, especially, "bullying". Now you - do you think it was "incitement to violence" and if so, do you find things like pretend-assassinating Trump in a play or pretend-beheading him "incitement to murder"?
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:50 PM
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You are still having trouble with the difference between the commander in chief and a has been comedian. It's all about context. Plus, Kathy doesn't have legions of lunatic followers.

My concern wasn't that he was inciting to violence (that was your attempt to derail the thread), my concern is that it is coo coo behavior for our president.

But in as much it might be construed as a call to violence, I still don't think the play was a call to murder.

But why must you search for equilibrium? Can't your side sometimes just be wrong?
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Old 07-03-2017, 11:19 PM
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My concern wasn't that he was inciting to violence (that was your attempt to derail the thread), my concern is that it is coo coo behavior for our president.
I don't think it is. It is a breath of fresh air to have someone at the top who is not a rigid poseur with a stick up his butt like Hillary or Obama, with every word scripted and focus-group tested.

I am so sorry if that offends you. Better luck next election.
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Old 07-04-2017, 02:49 AM
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I don't think it is. It is a breath of fresh air to have someone at the top who is not a rigid poseur with a stick up his butt like Hillary or Obama, with every word scripted and focus-group tested.

I am so sorry if that offends you. Better luck next election.
Absolutely nothing you say offends me. Though I can understand why it makes you feel better to think so.
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Old 07-04-2017, 06:35 AM
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I don't think it is. It is a breath of fresh air to have someone at the top who is not a rigid poseur with a stick up his butt like Hillary or Obama, with every word scripted and focus-group tested.
Yes, it is much better to have a petulant narcissist who says the first thing that comes into his head at all times, no matter how incoherent. How fresh that air is.

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I am so sorry if that offends you. Better luck next election.
I'm sorry it doesn't offend you. Perhaps one day you'll realize that you lost the last election too.
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The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum.

The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
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Old 07-04-2017, 08:36 AM
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Just ftr, no, Trump can't make a GIF, and none of his staffers did it either. He plagiarized it from a bigot on Reddit.
  #74  
Old 07-04-2017, 10:41 AM
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Yeah, I know but he did tweet it.
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Old 07-04-2017, 10:50 AM
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I don't think it is. It is a breath of fresh air to have someone at the top who is not a rigid poseur with a stick up his butt like Hillary or Obama, with every word scripted and focus-group tested.
Yeah, competence is a real snoozer. Nothing livens up a boring cross-country bus ride like a stuck accelerator, failed brakes and an engine fire.
  #76  
Old 07-04-2017, 11:23 AM
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Yeah, competence is a real snoozer. Nothing livens up a boring cross-country bus ride like a stuck accelerator, failed brakes and an engine fire.
ah, nice burn
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:58 PM
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And how's that working out for you? You're liking the way Trump is handling things?
I'm not sure what my opinion of Trump has to do with the anemic voting behavior of the American left.
  #78  
Old 07-04-2017, 11:31 PM
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

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When asked specifically about his other posts that consisted of racist, Islamophobic, and anti-Semitic language and imagery, he answered, "I love people of all races, creeds and origins. One of my best friends is a homosexual and one of my best friends is Jewish and one of my best friends is Muslim."
Kind of amusing and I can imagine the many hurt feelings on the_Donald subreddit that this user issued a lengthy apology.

But this is ridiculous overkill on CNN's part. Why not instead do this investigative reporting on the staffer who put the tweet together instead of squishing a single gnat, which makes you again look as pettily vindictive as the president.
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Old 07-05-2017, 06:15 AM
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But this is ridiculous overkill on CNN's part. Why not instead do this investigative reporting on the staffer who put the tweet together instead of squishing a single gnat, which makes you again look as pettily vindictive as the president.
A billion dollar company threatening to release some asshole's private information, if his posting from now on isn't up to their standards, is insane and evil. WTF CNN?!
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:56 AM
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Except come out and vote.
Pretty extreme liberal here, and I echo this sentiment. Eager to see how the dems come out in 18 and 20. Eager to see how - and how strongly - the young and women vote. Eager to see whether the dems will win any of these special elections?

If liberals are complacent and apathetic, they deserve what they get.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:57 AM
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A billion dollar company threatening to release some asshole's private information, if his posting from now on isn't up to their standards, is insane and evil. WTF CNN?!
That apology couldn't sound more coerced if he gave it on grainy videotape while kneeling in front of a row of guys wearing black hoods and CNN armbands.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:01 AM
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He is mentally ill. He is the President of the United States of America for God's sake.

This is middle school level childish behavior. I am embarrassed for all of us.
  #83  
Old 07-05-2017, 10:44 AM
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Doxxing can ruin lives, but when people spread calls for violence and hatred (as the redditor who made the wrestling/CNN gif had done, over and over again) from the cover of anonymity, what's the proper response? I think people should be afraid that there could be serious reprecussions to spreading calls for violence and hatred from the cover of anonymity.
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:51 AM
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On the one hand, the redditor is a jerk and Trump is a bigger jerk for behaving like a redditor himself instead of like the goddamn President of the United States. On the other, CNN is straying into some seriously creepy territory there.
  #85  
Old 07-05-2017, 12:00 PM
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Doxxing can ruin lives, but when people spread calls for violence and hatred (as the redditor who made the wrestling/CNN gif had done, over and over again) from the cover of anonymity, what's the proper response? I think people should be afraid that there could be serious reprecussions to spreading calls for violence and hatred from the cover of anonymity.
If you surveyed folks at the_Donald if they agree with the defense that his speech was all satirical, I have little doubt the vast maority of them would.

Because of all the shitposting there's a different threshhold within that context or the context of the chan's of what might be seen as crossing the line compared to a more general social media setting.

If CNN cares about investigating that type of speech, they should thoughtfully work on an expose that would take longer than 48 hours to create and consult with scholars on if it would be wise to dox anyone. If they want to embolden shitposters and open themselves to added scrutiny they can track them down individually as soon as they catch them in their crosshairs no matter how tangentially related to journalism that would serve a meaningful good.
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Old 07-05-2017, 12:17 PM
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If you surveyed folks at the_Donald if they agree with the defense that his speech was all satirical, I have little doubt the vast maority of them would.

Because of all the shitposting there's a different threshhold within that context or the context of the chan's of what might be seen as crossing the line compared to a more general social media setting.
I don't buy this at all as a defense/explanation/rationalization.

Quote:
If CNN cares about investigating that type of speech, they should thoughtfully work on an expose that would take longer than 48 hours to create and consult with scholars on if it would be wise to dox anyone. If they want to embolden shitposters and open themselves to added scrutiny they can track them down individually as soon as they catch them in their crosshairs no matter how tangentially related to journalism that would serve a meaningful good.
They can do two things. I'm not advocating doxxing, necessarily, but I think it's reasonable to investigate the phenomenon of people using the anonymity of the internet to spread advocacy for violence and hatred.

And I'll note that they didn't doxx this guy or even threaten to doxx him (at least according to the would-be doxxee -- he apologized before CNN contacted him).
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Old 07-05-2017, 12:46 PM
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And I'll note that they didn't doxx this guy or even threaten to doxx him (at least according to the would-be doxxee -- he apologized before CNN contacted him).
Well...
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CNN is not publishing "HanA**holeSolo's" name because he is a private citizen who has issued an extensive statement of apology, showed his remorse by saying he has taken down all his offending posts, and because he said he is not going to repeat this ugly behavior on social media again. In addition, he said his statement could serve as an example to others not to do the same.

CNN reserves the right to publish his identity should any of that change.
(bolding mine)

Whether that constitutes a "threat" is left as an exercise for the reader.
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Old 07-05-2017, 12:51 PM
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Well...(bolding mine)

Whether that constitutes a "threat" is left as an exercise for the reader.
Okay, that can reasonably be characterized as a threat, I think. I still lean towards this being an appropriate response to the level of vitriolic hatred and calls for violence (including advocacy for mass murder) that came from the redditor, but I'll acknowledge that this is a pretty new sort of phenomenon, and might warrant new thinking about journalistic ethics and the like.

It makes me think of Dan Savage's rule for outing closeted gay politicians -- outing is brutal, and should be reserved only for brutes (i.e. those politicians who use their position to advocate for anti-LGBT bigotry and/or discriminatory policies). Doxxing is similarly brutal, and perhaps it should also be reserved only for brutes.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:43 PM
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Doxxing can ruin lives, but when people spread calls for violence and hatred (as the redditor who made the wrestling/CNN gif had done, over and over again) from the cover of anonymity, what's the proper response? I think people should be afraid that there could be serious reprecussions to spreading calls for violence and hatred from the cover of anonymity.
Then CNN should have released his name.

Either the man's name is a matter of public interest or it isn't. If it is, release it. If not, don't. Forcing him to apologize "or else" is blackmail, pure and simple.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:56 PM
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Then CNN should have released his name.

Either the man's name is a matter of public interest or it isn't. If it is, release it. If not, don't. Forcing him to apologize "or else" is blackmail, pure and simple.
He already apologized and removed the material before they made a statement about it.

It is if he rescinds the apology and starts doing what he was doing again that they would release his info.
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:03 PM
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He already apologized and removed the material before they made a statement about it.

It is if he rescinds the apology and starts doing what he was doing again that they would release his info.
But not before CNN were in email contact with him though. I can imagine a few careers are on the line depending what are in those email communications. Release the emails!
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Old 07-05-2017, 02:03 PM
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Then CNN should have released his name.

Either the man's name is a matter of public interest or it isn't. If it is, release it. If not, don't. Forcing him to apologize "or else" is blackmail, pure and simple.
According to everything I've read, he apologized before CNN published anything or talked to him. I would agree with you if they threatened doxxing in exchange for an apology -- but they didn't do that, unless many reporting on this are lying.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:06 PM
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So the guy apologized for making the GIF, or for racist postings, or both, or what? Not sure I understand why an apology was necessary unless he was forced to.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:12 PM
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So the guy apologized for making the GIF, or for racist postings, or both, or what? Not sure I understand why an apology was necessary unless he was forced to.
For posting many, many racist/bigoted and violence-advocating things, if I understand things correctly.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:19 PM
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On one hand, I don't care if you call it blackmailing or not. It is the natural social consequences for these actions--consequences that are often missing in the online world and lead to everyone being absolutely horrible. I think that, if you say or do certain things online, you should be afraid of being doxxed. We'd shut up nearly all the trolls that way.

However, in this particular circumstance, it plays right into the conspiracies the alt-right has about the news. This guy is being forced to change his mind by the evil news organization. Over a stupid video that the President tweeted--one which meant basically nothing. Sure, the guy has said other things that are horrible, but it's the video that got CNN working on him.

They're sending the message that they are some sort of mafia outfit that will get you if you disparage them. That's not good for combating the message that they are fake news, or that the mainstream media is trying to control the populace.

If it were something more important that started this, I might feel otherwise. But this was just a stupid thing that happens all the fucking time. Someone doesn't like something, so they Photoshop them into some image or GIF for fun. Sure, the President should not have tweeted it, but, from some guy, it's basically nothing.

I guarantee you that it's now going to be much, much harder to tell people that CNN is legit, and much harder to fight the whole MSM stuff. The only way I could see otherwise is if they really are so motivated by fear that they'll change their minds. But, chances are, most of them know how to use Tor and won't be afraid in the slightest. Just angry at an extreme overreaction.

Last edited by BigT; 07-05-2017 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:23 PM
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I don't understand why there aren't 1000s of GIFs now of everyone in any movie clip, or wrestling clip, or whatever, taking down a guy with a CNN logo face. Hackivists are slacking I guess.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:30 PM
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So the guy apologized for making the GIF, or for racist postings, or both, or what? Not sure I understand why an apology was necessary unless he was forced to.
He was either forced to apologize, or decided to apologize in the midst of some "media outreach". I cant imagine he suddenly had a dose of remorse hit him out of nowhere.
  #98  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by TriPolar View Post
At the top of the page is the original Wrestlemania footage. Further down on the page there's the one with the CNN logo.

It's actually funny. If he wants to use Twitter to attack the media with a wrestling clip it's a far better approach than the crude personal attacks on newsertainment personalities. Hitting back at a major news organization like CNN is within the realm of the political arena for a president. Hitting the pawns as he typically does is cowardly for the POTUS to do. It's now surprise though, he's never been known for picking a fight unless he has an unfair advantage going in. Let's see if he ever stands up to Putin or anyone else that counts.
I can't wait to see when trump and Putin meet and shake hands . trump love to crush the other person hand , I wonder how Putin is going to response when trump try this shit on him.
  #99  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Fuzzy_wuzzy View Post
He was either forced to apologize, or decided to apologize in the midst of some "media outreach". I cant imagine he suddenly had a dose of remorse hit him out of nowhere.
Is it not possible that others doxxed him prior to CNN and the apology was in response to those other people?
  #100  
Old 07-05-2017, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy_wuzzy View Post
He was either forced to apologize, or decided to apologize in the midst of some "media outreach". I cant imagine he suddenly had a dose of remorse hit him out of nowhere.
If this story is correct:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politi...eet/index.html

...then CNN found out who it was and attempted to contact him but he didn't respond. But then, apparently knowing that the jig was up, the redditor made his apology and deleted all his old (racist and violence-advocating) posts. And afterwards, CNN posted that in light of his apology, they didn't plan to release his name, at least as long as he didn't get back into the abominable posting business.
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