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  #2151  
Old 11-18-2017, 05:20 PM
Jake Bullet - Traffic Control! Jake Bullet - Traffic Control! is online now
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No-one gives a good fuck about his 'hopes and desires'. He explicitly says "I will teach them to be cautious, I will teach them suspicion, and I WILL TEACH THEM DISTRUST"

Your hand waving bullshit aside, it's perfectly fair to summarise his racist "advice" the way I did.

Last edited by Jake Bullet - Traffic Control!; 11-18-2017 at 05:22 PM.
  #2152  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:08 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is offline
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Ooh, this might qualify:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e690b0d608f4

Quote:
Running a small business is challenging — but even more so for merchants who open up shop in neighborhoods where there is a higher incidence of crime. For years, one way these shopkeepers try protect themselves and their employees against theft or harm is to install thick plexiglass at the counter between the cashier and the customer. But is this a good thing?

Some people in Philadelphia don’t think so and now one local councilwoman is introducing legislation to force the city’s shopkeepers to take the glass down.

“It’s an indignity” to make purchases through such a window, said City Councilwoman Cindy Bass in this Philadelphia Inquirer article. Bass and others believe the windows represent race and class differences and a “symbol of distrust.” She, along with five co-sponsors, has proposed a bill requiring shopkeepers to remove their windows and if the bill receives a majority support in a scheduled committee meeting today it will head for a full vote on Dec. 14.
On one hand, yes, I suppose it is an indignity to be faced with a shopkeeper so distrustful of the average customer that they would want to put up a plexiglass window between them and you to prevent armed robbery. On the other hand, we're talking about crime prevention in what are often very high-crime areas, in shops that are good targets for armed robbery. Honestly, this seems like the kind of thing the free market could easily sort out. If it truly is such an indignity to customers, shops that don't do it should do better. Unless there's some really important reason why they don't. Like they're worried about being robbed.

Also, by this logic, shouldn't we also ban security cameras and armed guards, the proposed (and expensive) replacement solutions? Isn't it an indignity to be constantly watched due to fear of being a criminal?
  #2153  
Old 12-06-2017, 10:50 AM
Mr. Miskatonic Mr. Miskatonic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Ooh, this might qualify:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e690b0d608f4



On one hand, yes, I suppose it is an indignity to be faced with a shopkeeper so distrustful of the average customer that they would want to put up a plexiglass window between them and you to prevent armed robbery. On the other hand, we're talking about crime prevention in what are often very high-crime areas, in shops that are good targets for armed robbery. Honestly, this seems like the kind of thing the free market could easily sort out. If it truly is such an indignity to customers, shops that don't do it should do better. Unless there's some really important reason why they don't. Like they're worried about being robbed.

Also, by this logic, shouldn't we also ban security cameras and armed guards, the proposed (and expensive) replacement solutions? Isn't it an indignity to be constantly watched due to fear of being a criminal?
The logic does not extend per se since the plexiglass is much, much, much more intrusive since cameras & guards tend to not be between the customer and the shopowner.

I get where this is coming from. Plexiglass barriers in stores & take out places just scream "Bad neighborhood". So much so that about 20 years ago many banks, even ones on the edge of bad neighborhoods, removed their plexiglass barriers to not give the wrong impression. But small stores and such don't have FDIC backing and such.

This is contraversial in Philly right now, and my own opinion is that it really isn't the call of the city council.
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  #2154  
Old 12-06-2017, 11:04 AM
running coach running coach is online now
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If someone has the balls to open a store in a high crime area, they should be allowed any legal form of protection they want.
  #2155  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:04 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
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I'm concerned that they are more worried about the existence of the plexiglass than the reason it exists in the first place. It's a symptom of a broader problem - namely that some neighborhoods are so scarred by violence that this is a standard practice in some areas. That is terrible. It is not merely an indignity to the shopkeeper but to the people who live there, that they have to live in such a violent culture and nobody actually seems to give a shit beyond removing the plexiglass.

I used to work in a very rough area of Philadelphia (Kensington) and it blew my mind what people were expected to accept as normal. One study at Penn estimated the rate of PTSD among people in that neighborhood to be upwards of 60%.

Last edited by Spice Weasel; 12-07-2017 at 08:05 PM.
  #2156  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:31 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
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Originally Posted by WilyQuixote View Post
I'd like to hear your reasoning for why you think trivial statements by college nobodies is worthy of posting on this message board.
Entertainment.

That's my motive, anyway.

Every so often someone wanders in here to say 'What's the big deal?' and really, there is no big deal in a vast majority of cases. I like these mundane examples because they serve as a useful, low-stakes thought experiment for me. As a leftist, every case usually has some kernel of ideology that I can identify and usually agree with, but the approach may be wrong. And there are some cases that are clearly misrepresented or misunderstood and it's interesting to talk about that, too.

Some of the shit hits close to home. The YA Twitter thing is a good example. The idea that someone can launch a social campaign to impugn your values as an author based on a complete misunderstanding of how social change works is pretty frightening. (The gist is: someone wrote a fantasy YA series featuring a racist protagonist who gradually became enlightened and created an anti-racist movement. The book series was excoriated as being racist because it made some readers feel uncomfortable.) This is really upsetting to me. I write a lot about sexual assault in my novel, and the idea that someone could use instances of misogyny that are purposely there to draw attention to the issue of sexual assault to publicly smear me as a misogynist rape-apologist is mind-bogglingly awful. Consider how close to the author's heart that racism must be in order for her to write three fucking books about it. I have nothing but empathy for that person whether the controversy ''helped'' her career or not.

However pure their motives, some people, even young people, do fucking terrible, thoughtless things, and deserve to be called out.
  #2157  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:40 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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About the plexiglass, I remember gas stations (back when there were stations that sold only gas) where the attendant's booth was surrounded by plexiglass and you passed cash to them through a "scooped out" area of the counter. And there was nothing particularly bad about the neighborhood.
  #2158  
Old 12-07-2017, 09:29 PM
Spice Weasel Spice Weasel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
About the plexiglass, I remember gas stations (back when there were stations that sold only gas) where the attendant's booth was surrounded by plexiglass and you passed cash to them through a "scooped out" area of the counter. And there was nothing particularly bad about the neighborhood.
I once lived in an old industrial city which is best described as an unremarkable, racist shithole. The only place we had plexiglass was in the black neighborhood. I had never seen it before until I dated a guy who lived in that neighborhood. The idea that this represented an actual crime risk rather than a perceived crime risk is a bit hard for me to swallow. My impression was always that racism, rather than reality, shaped perception of that area. But the guy I dated, who was black, also perceived the area as crime-ridden, as did his friends and family. Like I never went anywhere on my own without receiving a list of safety instructions. So, I dunno what to think about every instance of plexiglass everywhere.

But if we're talking Philadelphia? There are some genuinely scary places in Philadelphia. All the random shootings aside, one of our youth leaders was murdered and left in the dumpster behind the building where I worked. I don't doubt the plexiglass is there for a reason. What gets me is why the city council is talking about fucking plexiglass instead of, I dunno, economic equality and other drivers of violent culture. And what about the patrons of the store, on the other side of the glass, who don't have any protection? I had a professor who described to me how he had to teach every single one of his kids the best way to take a bullet, and how the instruction saved his son's life. I miss Philly a lot sometimes but there are some deep issues there.

This shit really gets to me. Like it's such stark obvious horrible inequality and the general national response is a tepid, disinterested, yawn. These aren't unsolvable problems. They require time, effort, money and other resources, but they aren't unsolveable. It's emergency-level bad and nobody cares. Nobody would tolerate it in their own community but as long as it's happening somewhere else we can ignore it. It's something I never thought about until I experienced it directly, and I quickly learned just how much I took for granted about my own shitty upbringing. I no longer live in that area, but it's the kind of experience that stays with you always.
  #2159  
Old 12-08-2017, 12:21 AM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
About the plexiglass, I remember gas stations (back when there were stations that sold only gas) where the attendant's booth was surrounded by plexiglass and you passed cash to them through a "scooped out" area of the counter. And there was nothing particularly bad about the neighborhood.
In my neighborhood the suburbs, 20~30 miles from the two big cities, we have a gas station at Fred's (a major grocery+stuff retailer) that has a doghouse where the cashier handles money. You put your cash in a drawer, rather like a bank or pharmacy drive-thru set-up, and get your change back through it. In a very non-minority area, this. But I suspect that these days most customers swipe at the pump and never even really notice the doghouse.
  #2160  
Old 12-08-2017, 04:36 PM
adaher adaher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Budget Player Cadet View Post
Ooh, this might qualify:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e690b0d608f4



On one hand, yes, I suppose it is an indignity to be faced with a shopkeeper so distrustful of the average customer that they would want to put up a plexiglass window between them and you to prevent armed robbery. On the other hand, we're talking about crime prevention in what are often very high-crime areas, in shops that are good targets for armed robbery. Honestly, this seems like the kind of thing the free market could easily sort out. If it truly is such an indignity to customers, shops that don't do it should do better. Unless there's some really important reason why they don't. Like they're worried about being robbed.

Also, by this logic, shouldn't we also ban security cameras and armed guards, the proposed (and expensive) replacement solutions? Isn't it an indignity to be constantly watched due to fear of being a criminal?
When I first read this story a week ago, it was SO dumb that I had to look deeper. Turns out that it is actually that dumb, but not because the SJWs in question actually believe in this reasoning, but because they are actively out to end a certain type of business run mostly by Asian-Americans. This is good old fashioned Asian vs. African-American big city racial tension.

The issue at hand is that these businesses encourage people to just buy alcohol and get drunk and loiter. According to the commission, local regulations require such businesses to serve food and have seating for a certain number of people. The city doesn't want these types of businesses there, and having failed to drive them out through enfocement of current regulations, is making new ones that endanger the Asian-American owners, thus driving them out a different way.

I'd note that this is a city that has a history of using regulation to penalize businesses they don't like and to facilitate businesses they do. Kermit Gosnell's abortion clinic went uninspected for decades, while city commissioners are doing stings on liquor convenience stores and basically threatening the owners with death.
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