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  #1  
Old 05-10-2002, 04:54 PM
Sauron Sauron is offline
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Question about opening credits of "Cheers"

We've got a six-week-old baby at our house, so Mrs. Sauron and I have been up a lot at night. I've gotten to see a lot of Cheers reruns on Nick at Night.

I've noticed something odd, though, about the opening credits. If you'll remember, the Cheers credits were set against a backdrop of a photo montage from the early 1900s (I'm guessing at the time period). As the names of the cast were displayed, an obvious effort was made to link the photo with the character played by that person. For example, when the name "Ted Danson" was displayed, the photo would be that of a dark-haired bartender. When the name "Woody Haralson" was displayed, the photo was of a younger man behind a bar with a somewhat winsome expression on his face. And so on. Each photo is displayed for about three seconds, the same length of time the actor's name is displayed.

This trend was broken in two instances, though. For Rhea Perlman (who played Carla), the photo showed a woman's legs. No face shot whatsoever. For George Wendt (Norm), a large man was shown very briefly (less than a second), and then the next photo flashed up -- that of an older man holding up a newspaper with "WE WIN" as the banner headline. Wendt's name was still on the screen, but obviously this wasn't supposed to be his character.

Why were Perlman and Wendt slighted (if indeed it is a slight) in this way?

Note: I've noticed this on the most recent versions of Cheers (those with "Rebecca Howe" as opposed to "Diane Chambers"); I don't know if the earlier versions of the show had this same trait. I believe Perlman's name was always linked to those legs, rather than a face, in the credits, but I think Wendt at one time had "his" photo displayed longer.
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2002, 05:46 PM
Threadkiller Threadkiller is offline
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Sauron I can relate, our kid is two weeks old.

I read in some Entertainment News type bit that the creators didn't know who was in the photographs--they got them from some historical archive or similar place. They are (or were this was some time ago) interested if anyone could identify the people.

I am not able to answer your question but you could try:
Cheers Message Board
or
rec.arts.tv
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The opinions expressed in the above post are strictly the author's and do not necessarily reflect those of the New Zealand Dairy Board, The Symbionese Liberation Army, or the Ministry of Silly Walks.
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Old 05-10-2002, 09:42 PM
Sauron Sauron is offline
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Thanks, Threadkiller. Hope you're getting some sleep.

I've checked various Cheers sites on the Web, with no luck so far. I don't really care who the folks are in the photos; I just wanna know why Perlman and Wendt didn't get the same "face time" as the other characters in the opening credits.
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2002, 12:34 AM
riserius1 riserius1 is offline
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"Face Time" was actually very important in the early days of the series. The story goes that Ted Danson and Shelley Long both considered themselves the star of the series and neither wanted to receive second billing. That is why, if you will look closely you will notice the unique placement of their names(SL, lower right corner, TD upper left corner) allows both to be considered "Top billing". In other words, if you read from left to right, Shelley Long is the star. However, if you read from top to bottom, Ted Danson is the star.

Chris W.

"This has been another...useless fact !"
--Y. Warner
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2002, 12:58 AM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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The same credit arrangement was used for Paul Newman and Steve McQueen in The Towering Inferno. Just thought I'd point that out.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2002, 01:03 AM
Michael Ellis Michael Ellis is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bryan Ekers
The same credit arrangement was used for Paul Newman and Steve McQueen in The Towering Inferno. Just thought I'd point that out.
Dammit, I was going to point that out!

I'm the one who makes gratuious Towering Inferno references around here! ME! ME! ME!

Remember to breathe...just remember to breathe...
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  #7  
Old 05-11-2002, 01:33 AM
Kamino Neko Kamino Neko is offline
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IIRC, the guy with the paper was originally shown behind the credit for the fellow who played the Coach, which might have something to do with it.
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  #8  
Old 05-11-2002, 04:03 AM
GIGObuster GIGObuster is online now
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A set of photos of the credits can be found here:
http://tomsquotes.amhosting.net/photo/cheers/cheers.htm
http://tomsquotes.amhosting.net/phot...rs/cheers2.htm

Although not needed by the OP the photos of the bar people came from “Our Town on the Plains” J. J. Pennell's Photographs of Junction City, Kansas, 1893-1922

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/shoour.html
Quote:
Our Town on the Plains reproduces more than one hundred of Pennell's best photographs. Taken from 1893 to 1922, these wonderfully crisp images depict life in Junction City and nearby Fort Riley: people posing with studio props or in front of their homes, group shots of schools and clubs, commissioned photographs of buildings and businesses, public events like parades and unveilings, and ordinary people at work on their farms and in their shops.

These photographs suggest a world of solid civic and personal values, with Pennell's wide-angle lens lending a sense of spaciousness to everyday life. We see a baseball diamond from the late 1800s and a bar so typical of its day it was used in the opening credits of Cheers.
And Sauron, I think that maybe the reason why photos for the secondary characters were not as consistent as the main ones could be due to the mundane reason that they were indeed secondary. Of course, as the seasons progressed, it became obvious that the whole cast was important. Lets not forget that the show was almost cancelled after the first season and IMO, changing the credits was the least of the worries.
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  #9  
Old 05-11-2002, 06:18 AM
Antonius Block Antonius Block is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by riserius1
"Face Time" was actually very important in the early days of the series. The story goes that Ted Danson and Shelley Long both considered themselves the star of the series and neither wanted to receive second billing. That is why, if you will look closely you will notice the unique placement of their names(SL, lower right corner, TD upper left corner) allows both to be considered "Top billing". In other words, if you read from left to right, Shelley Long is the star. However, if you read from top to bottom, Ted Danson is the star.

Chris W.

"This has been another...useless fact !"
--Y. Warner
Not wishing to be too nitpicky:

I think you mean SL in upper right corner, TD in lower left corner. The way that you describe it (UL, LR) gives a clear billing order.

Antonius Block
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  #10  
Old 05-12-2002, 10:19 PM
Sauron Sauron is offline
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Thanks, guys.

Actually, the credits I'm talking about come from the last couple of seasons of the show (although I think Perlman's name was always superimposed over those legs). Why do Perlman and Wendt not get the same consideration as the other members of the cast in the credits?

I could possibly see Wendt giving up some "face time" in the credits to allow a tribute to the character of Coach (represented by the guy with the "We Win" newspaper). But why does Perlman's character never get a "face" in the credits?
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  #11  
Old 05-14-2002, 08:50 AM
Guy Propski Guy Propski is offline
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I think you're missing the obvious visual pun. Since Rhea Perlman is very short, they only showed the lower legs of a woman (cos she's short, get it?).

Can't explain the Norm bizness, tho.
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  #12  
Old 05-14-2002, 09:23 AM
Sauron Sauron is offline
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If they're making a pun on Perlman's stature, wouldn't it make more sense to show only the top of a lady's head?
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  #13  
Old 05-14-2002, 09:44 AM
Arken Arken is offline
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For you Cheers fans:

The original bar (not the establishment, the wooden bar itself) shown in the opening credits of Cheers can be found in the Irish Lion in Bloomington, IN where I live. Almost no one here knows it and there is only a tiny sign in the bar talking about it. The only way I found out is that a member of the family who owns the bar told me at the local business expo.

Still, it sounds to me like a must-visit for any Cheers fan. Go there and order the Celtic Stew. It's delicious.
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  #14  
Old 05-14-2002, 01:11 PM
monster monster is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Antonius Block


Not wishing to be too nitpicky:

I think you mean SL in upper right corner, TD in lower left corner. The way that you describe it (UL, LR) gives a clear billing order.

Antonius Block
To further nitpick,

<pushed over>Ted Danson

Shelley Long



SL in lower left and TD in upper right. That way, left to right, SL is billed first and top to bottom, TD is billed first. Or did I just goof it up?
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2002, 03:03 PM
Tamex Tamex is offline
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I thought that showing legs near Rhea Perlman's name indicated that the character was sexy and perhaps a bit mysterious (or, at least, she thought of herself that way!) It doesn't seem that insulting at all. Perhaps the photo archive did not have a suitable picture of a diminuitive Italian barmaid.

As for Wendt--I don't know. I seem to recall that in the early episodes, though, Cliff was not credited in the opening montage--John Ratzenberger's name appeared at the end of the show. I think their parts were just intended to be more minor in the beginning.
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  #16  
Old 05-14-2002, 06:01 PM
sqweels sqweels is offline
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Showing a woman with her foot mannishly propped on the bar rail is a way of conveying Carla's character that would have been less effective if they had shown the face.

I suspect that they cut away from the fat guy to the "we win" shot in order to pay homage to the dearly departed "Coach".
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2002, 06:13 PM
Tim R. Mortiss Tim R. Mortiss is offline
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Not sure if this will help, but the Nick at Night opening credits are MUCH shorter than the original ones. Most of the lyrics are gone ("makin' your way in the world today takes everything you've got.... taking a break from all your worries," etc. etc.). So in the trimming for the late-night-cable-world, they probably left much of the original "face-time" on the cutting room floor. As to why Wendt's time got cut more than the others, I dunno.

I have to agree with the no-suitable-picture-for-Carla theory, by the way.....TRM
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Old 05-14-2002, 06:17 PM
mobo85 mobo85 is offline
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Originally posted by Tim R. Mortiss
Not sure if this will help, but the Nick at Night opening credits are MUCH shorter than the original ones. Most of the lyrics are gone ("makin' your way in the world today takes everything you've got.... taking a break from all your worries," etc. etc.). So in the trimming for the late-night-cable-world, they probably left much of the original "face-time" on the cutting room floor.
Why, it's all the magic of syndication, my friend! Cut and compress! Cut and compress! Who cares if purists hate it? We get more money that way!
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2002, 09:48 PM
Sauron Sauron is offline
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Actually, I think the opening credits were compressed while Cheers was still in its original broadcast run. By the time Kirstie Alley joined the cast, the show was a huge hit. I bet they cut the opening credits to squeeze in another commercial or two.

I got no problem with altering the "face time" in the credits to pay homage to Coach. But why should Wendt be the only one so affected? Why not shave half-a-second off everybody's "face time" and give Coach's "image" the same amount of time as everyone else? As it is now, Wendt gets shafted. I'm sure he agreed to it (my understanding is that credits are a huge part of contract negotiations), but it still seems strange.

Maybe Perlman never saw an image she liked, and so refused to have a "face" with her credit?
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2002, 12:05 AM
Tamex Tamex is offline
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After looking at GIGObuster's links, I can tell you that the "We Win" guy is not Coach. There is a different picture (in the top link) that has Nicholas Consanto's name on it. The "We Win" Guy (second link) comes at the very end of the credits and is not attributed to any member of the cast.

They did compress the opening theme in syndication, but I thought that they played the originals on Nick at Nite. I could be wrong, though, and I don't have cable anymore to check.
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  #21  
Old 05-15-2002, 12:19 AM
Alan Smithee Alan Smithee is offline
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Nick at Nite used to be the last bastion of full length, uncut reruns on tv. Alas, tis no more. They cut and compress like the rest of 'em. At least so I've read. I haven't had a tv at home in years. (When I did, I mostly watched Nick at Night, though.)
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  #22  
Old 05-15-2002, 01:35 AM
Philosophocles Philosophocles is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tamex
I thought that showing legs near Rhea Perlman's name indicated that the character was sexy and perhaps a bit mysterious (or, at least, she thought of herself that way!) It doesn't seem that insulting at all. Perhaps the photo archive did not have a suitable picture of a diminuitive Italian barmaid.

As for Wendt--I don't know. I seem to recall that in the early episodes, though, Cliff was not credited in the opening montage--John Ratzenberger's name appeared at the end of the show. I think their parts were just intended to be more minor in the beginning.
Ratzenberger originally tried out for the role of Norm. When he didn't get the role, he pitched the idea of the Cliff Clavin character to the show's producers. They agreed to include him as a minor character to start.
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Old 05-15-2002, 09:20 AM
Sauron Sauron is offline
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Originally posted by Tamex
After looking at GIGObuster's links, I can tell you that the "We Win" guy is not Coach. There is a different picture (in the top link) that has Nicholas Consanto's name on it. The "We Win" Guy (second link) comes at the very end of the credits and is not attributed to any member of the cast.

They did compress the opening theme in syndication, but I thought that they played the originals on Nick at Nite. I could be wrong, though, and I don't have cable anymore to check.
This makes even less sense, then. Why should Wendt get hosed this way? I think he was a fan favorite.

I'm almost positive the theme was compressed during the show's initial broadcast run, around the same time Lilith became a regular cast member.
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  #24  
Old 08-26-2011, 02:20 AM
Goose68 Goose68 is offline
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We win

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauron View Post
We've got a six-week-old baby at our house, so Mrs. Sauron and I have been up a lot at night. I've gotten to see a lot of Cheers reruns on Nick at Night.

I've noticed something odd, though, about the opening credits. If you'll remember, the Cheers credits were set against a backdrop of a photo montage from the early 1900s (I'm guessing at the time period). As the names of the cast were displayed, an obvious effort was made to link the photo with the character played by that person. For example, when the name "Ted Danson" was displayed, the photo would be that of a dark-haired bartender. When the name "Woody Haralson" was displayed, the photo was of a younger man behind a bar with a somewhat winsome expression on his face. And so on. Each photo is displayed for about three seconds, the same length of time the actor's name is displayed.

This trend was broken in two instances, though. For Rhea Perlman (who played Carla), the photo showed a woman's legs. No face shot whatsoever. For George Wendt (Norm), a large man was shown very briefly (less than a second), and then the next photo flashed up -- that of an older man holding up a newspaper with "WE WIN" as the banner headline. Wendt's name was still on the screen, but obviously this wasn't supposed to be his character.

Why were Perlman and Wendt slighted (if indeed it is a slight) in this way?

Note: I've noticed this on the most recent versions of Cheers (those with "Rebecca Howe" as opposed to "Diane Chambers"); I don't know if the earlier versions of the show had this same trait. I believe Perlman's name was always linked to those legs, rather than a face, in the credits, but I think Wendt at one time had "his" photo displayed longer.
hi all I know this is a shocker of a necro, post. i remember a while back an interview featuring Ted Danson the guy holding up the "We win" newspaper was one of the original cast or production crew who died and it was i believe done as a tribute to him, however i cant remember the details. It was in looking for clarification of the matter, that i stumbled across this post if anyone out there knows the story. I would sure appreaciate it if you could educate me as to the facts thanks.
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  #25  
Old 08-26-2011, 04:36 AM
Biffer_Spice Biffer_Spice is offline
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OP - are you George Wendt?
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  #26  
Old 08-26-2011, 06:04 AM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Originally Posted by Tamex View Post
I thought that showing legs near Rhea Perlman's name indicated that the character was sexy and perhaps a bit mysterious (or, at least, she thought of herself that way!) It doesn't seem that insulting at all.
This is what I've always assumed. Carla didn't get a face because she got a sexy pair of legs instead. Makes perfect sense actually.

One thing I have always noticed though is that the final guy (the think man holding up the class) looks a lot like Niles from "Frasier."
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  #27  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:42 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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The question is based upon the assumption that the credits were designed to appear over pictures of people who represented the actors being credited. Occam's Razor says it simply may be that no connection between the names and the pictures was intended; they just picked photos they liked and put them into the montage, then added the names later.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:02 AM
Scarlett67 Scarlett67 is offline
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I've always thought that the green dress on Sexy-Legs Woman was similar to some of the dresses that Carla wore for special occasions: short, tight, a little wacky.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:25 AM
Justin_Bailey Justin_Bailey is offline
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
The question is based upon the assumption that the credits were designed to appear over pictures of people who represented the actors being credited. Occam's Razor says it simply may be that no connection between the names and the pictures was intended; they just picked photos they liked and put them into the montage, then added the names later.
What does Occam's Razor say about the fact that Woody's picture is an almost perfect likeness of the real Woody Harrelson?

No, it's quite clear the images are meant to evoke the actors they're paired with.
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  #30  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:35 AM
njtt njtt is offline
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I am pretty sure that, background pictures notwithstanding, George Wendt was getting excellent billing, almost as good as Danson and Long, by being placed last, after the "and". That is the name that you remember as the credits end, and I am pretty sure it is a billing slot that actors fight to get. It seems as though, originally, Danson, Long and Wendt were considered the stars and the other characters were expected to be relatively minor. As the show developed, however, it became more of an ensemble, with Karla, Cliff and Coach (and later additions, like Frasier and Woody) becoming much more prominent. Other significant early characters, like Sumner Sloan, faded out quickly. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the original plan was that Cliff would only appear in a couple of early episodes, and was not planned as a continuing character at all.

Another point about George Wendt's billing: I always notice that just as the song ends with the line "You want to go where everybody knows your name," the words "and George Wendt" appear on the screen. I do not know whether this was intentional, but it always struck me as rather a neat pun, and it makes the George Wendt name even more noticeable than it is simply in virtue of being last, after the "and".

In sum, no way is Wendt being slighted in the billing. If anything the rest of the cast is being slighted relative to him. He gets better billing than is warranted by his character's importance to the ensemble.
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  #31  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:36 AM
Baal Houtham Baal Houtham is offline
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Old thread, but what the hell. Here's another vote for "it's what they had." A lot of decisions in creative fields are based on getting things done within deadline and budget. My guess is that someone got an idea of using old-timey images for the opening and they saw a few photos that were analogous to some of the characters. They used those ones and then rather than send out for additional libraries of vintage photos, they moved on to the next job. So Rhea P is a pair of legs, rather than a short, older, working class, barmaid. It's easier to find an old-timey picture of a pair of legs.

Time and money.
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  #32  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:41 AM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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Originally Posted by Goose68 View Post
hi all I know this is a shocker of a necro, post. i remember a while back an interview featuring Ted Danson the guy holding up the "We win" newspaper was one of the original cast or production crew who died and it was i believe done as a tribute to him, however i cant remember the details.
Most likely the reference here is to the character "Coach" Ernie Pantuso, played by Nicholas Colasanto, who died in 1985 after the third season of Cheers. There is a photograph of Geronimo on the set that can be often seen in shots that represents both the character and the actor. In the very last scene of the final episode, as Ted Danson walks to the back of the bar he straightens the photo.

It's possible that the "We win" guy is somehow tied into that but I don't think so. That was there before he died.

Last edited by Telemark; 08-26-2011 at 09:42 AM..
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  #33  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:46 AM
LaurenIpsum LaurenIpsum is offline
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I believe George Wendt's "picture" was given at least a few seconds more time in the first couple of seasons. At that point, John Ratzenberger, Kelsey Grammer and Bebe Neuwirth were not in the opening credits, so they had more time for each person. Plus, when Kirstie Alley joined, she had a separate credit screen (as opposed to the shared screen that Ted Danson & Shelley long got) so now they had to squeeze in a lot more in the same amount of time. As for why only Wendt's part got trimmed, I'm not really sure, but I do know that he had more in the early seasons.

BTW, I have a set of books I got at a library used-book sale many years ago called "This Fabulous Century." It was from 1970 and the idea was to have a separate book for each decade, although 1870-1900 got lumped together. In one of those books, I believe the 1870-1900 one, I saw several of the images from the Cheers credits, including the Kirstie Alley and Woody Harrelson ones.
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  #34  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:55 AM
njtt njtt is offline
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Originally Posted by Biffer_Spice View Post
OP - are you George Wendt?
No wonder we never got to see inside Barad-Dur. The Dark Lord was Norm!
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  #35  
Old 08-26-2011, 10:15 AM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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Keep in mind this thread is nearly a decade old. It was bumped to ask about the "Coach" question.
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  #36  
Old 08-26-2011, 04:44 PM
WOOKINPANUB WOOKINPANUB is offline
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I knew exactly what the OP was going to be about the second I saw the thread title (and no, I did not see this thread when it was first started). I used to wonder the same thing every time I watched Cheers and I could swear I read that the placement of the photos was completely unintentional. I know that's not very helpful without a cite, but just my .02 to go along with Reality Chuck's theory.
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  #37  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:19 PM
Morbo Morbo is offline
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Keep in mind this thread is nearly a decade old. It was bumped to ask about the "Coach" question.
Sauron's kid is nine now!
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  #38  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:26 PM
fumster fumster is offline
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Is it my imagination, or did the first appearance of Cliff portray him as an annoying know it all who actually did know some obscure facts as opposed to him later being just full of BS?
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  #39  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:54 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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YouTube to the rescue!

Here's the original opening for Cheers. It's 63 seconds long, with the credits starting 30 seconds in.

Danson/Long comes first -- on-screen 4 seconds
Nicolas Colasanto, Rhea Perlman and George Wendt each get three seconds.

Note that there's absolutely no relationship between the Danson/Long and Colosanto credits and the images behind the names. Rhea Perlman is backed by the green dress and legs, and the image behind George Wendt's name shifts from the portly man to the "We Win" bartender midway through.

Now here's the opening from the final episode. It's a tad shorter (about 61 seconds), and of course, there are more names -- each is featured for 2 seconds instead of the original 3.

Notice, however, that while Danson, Kirstie Alley, Woody Harrelson, John Ratzenberger and Kelsey Grammer (also Bebe Neuwerth when she was in the opening credits) now are backed by images that look like their characters, the backgrounds for Rhea Perlman and George Wendt are still the same.

It looks as if originally there wasn't any relationship intended between the stars' names and the images behind them, and that the portly man behind George Wendt was coincidence. As the series continued, I guess someone got the idea of making the images match the characters, but never got around to re-editing for Perlman and Wendt.

sh1bu1 Yes, Cliff was originally written as a guy who knew weird stuff, but as his character was expanded, so were the BS and weirdness factors.

Last edited by kunilou; 08-26-2011 at 08:56 PM..
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  #40  
Old 08-26-2011, 09:27 PM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is offline
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It looks as if originally there wasn't any relationship intended between the stars' names and the images behind them, and that the portly man behind George Wendt was coincidence.
Not sure I agree. The Danson/Long image, after all, is a young man and a young woman, and the George Wendt image I believe looks too much like Wendt to be a coincidence.

The Colasanto image is the worst match. Curiously enough, the second Wendt image--the "WE WIN" guy they cut to, while Wendt's name is still on the screen--would have been a much better Colasanto match. He's even wearing a white shirt and tie, and the "WE WIN" headline evokes sports.

In fact, until I saw the video, I was sure that "WE WIN" originally had been the Colasanto match. But no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kunilou
As the series continued, I guess someone got the idea of making the images match the characters, but never got around to re-editing for Perlman and Wendt.
I would say, as the series went on, they got better about matching the images and characters. But I believe the idea was there from the beginning.

I have one more question--who were "WE", and what did we "WIN"?
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:27 PM
Frylock Frylock is offline
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Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
It looks as if originally there wasn't any relationship intended between the stars' names and the images behind them, and that the portly man behind George Wendt was coincidence. As the series continued, I guess someone got the idea of making the images match the characters, but never got around to re-editing for Perlman and Wendt.
I agree there's no clear intention of a matchup in the season one credits, while there's an obvious intended matchup in the last season's credits.

But I don't think they failed to re-edit Perlman and Wendt. I think they decided Perlman's picture was the right one to use, and they were loathe to get rid of the "we win" picture because they felt it was somehow an iconic part of the credits. So they kept the Wendt/large character, but went ahead and cut away to get the "we win" guy in as well.

Perhaps they told themselves both pictures represent aspects of Norm in some way.

Last edited by Frylock; 08-26-2011 at 09:27 PM..
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:38 PM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy the Pig View Post
Not sure I agree. The Danson/Long image, after all, is a young man and a young woman, and the George Wendt image I believe looks too much like Wendt to be a coincidence.
I think you're reading too much into it. For one thing, the scene behind the original Danson/Long shared billing was two young men and a young woman. Colasanto's credit comes on after the background changes from a shot of a single bartender to a wider shot of the customers and a bartender. There was really no connection (at least not originally) between Perlman's waitress and the woman customer's legs, and the very final credit ("Created by") settles on a single man instead of a trio, which would have fit Charles/Charles/Burrows better.

I honestly believe the creative process was a) put a bunch of old photos together b) realize there's a resemblence in the Wendt photo and c) decide to work from there as new people were added to the credits.

Wow. I've spent way too much time on this!
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Old 08-26-2011, 10:49 PM
Happy Lendervedder Happy Lendervedder is offline
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I think the Rhea Perlman legs are appropriate as the woman in the picture is flanked by men, wearing a "short" dress. It offers the suggestion that this could be a woman of questionable repute.

And I'm actually ashamed to admit that I never noticed that these images all came from different pictures and different eras. Apparently I just never paid attention to the fact that some of the images are photos while others are paintings. I assumed it was just the camera panning over an old-time image of a bar.
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:04 PM
Quimby Quimby is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Lendervedder View Post
I think the Rhea Perlman legs are appropriate as the woman in the picture is flanked by men, wearing a "short" dress. It offers the suggestion that this could be a woman of questionable repute.
Exactly. While it was down played later, the earlier episodes made Carla seem more trampy. Not Mona from Who's the Boss trampy but enough that I think the legs fit. Later they played up her toughness instead.
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:35 AM
Tamex Tamex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose68 View Post
hi all I know this is a shocker of a necro, post. i remember a while back an interview featuring Ted Danson the guy holding up the "We win" newspaper was one of the original cast or production crew who died and it was i believe done as a tribute to him, however i cant remember the details. It was in looking for clarification of the matter, that i stumbled across this post if anyone out there knows the story. I would sure appreaciate it if you could educate me as to the facts thanks.
According to the FAQ for Cheers on IMDB, "WE WIN" refers to the end of Prohibition. Is Ted Danson claiming this is an actual photograph of a person who worked on the show?
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:19 AM
Snake Plissken Snake Plissken is offline
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I remember seeing this pic on Shorpy. Great site.


http://www.shorpy.com/node/7798
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:47 AM
Freddy the Pig Freddy the Pig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamex View Post
According to the FAQ for Cheers on IMDB, "WE WIN" refers to the end of Prohibition.
I don't think so. On this blow-up of the image, the second line in the headline on the lower right says, "As Cards Lose to B . . ." (either Bucs or Braves?)

I think it's a baseball headline. Somebody clinched the National League pennant when their team won while St. Louis was losing. From a quick search of Retrosheet I haven't been able to track down the NL pennant race that would fit the scenario.
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:44 PM
norvalnormal norvalnormal is offline
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In his 1983 autobiographical _Where Have I Been?_ Sid Caesar took the obligatory swipe at "television these days" and mentioned that he was highly insulted, as a former titan of the medium, to be offered a recurring role as a barfly in the new sitcom _Cheers_ (which he mentioned by name, I am pretty sure).
Dunno whether this was proto-Norm or a Cliff-like character but if he'd gone for it, in all likelihood, nowadays he'd be better remembered for this series run than for the landmark _Your Show of Shows_??
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:52 AM
williamweigand williamweigand is offline
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I thought the thread was going to be about the coincidence of the singer singing "you wanna go" followed by "George Wendt" - George went - get it?
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:44 AM
Fiddle Peghead Fiddle Peghead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
I think you're reading too much into it. For one thing, the scene behind the original Danson/Long shared billing was two young men and a young woman. Colasanto's credit comes on after the background changes from a shot of a single bartender to a wider shot of the customers and a bartender. There was really no connection (at least not originally) between Perlman's waitress and the woman customer's legs, and the very final credit ("Created by") settles on a single man instead of a trio, which would have fit Charles/Charles/Burrows better.

I honestly believe the creative process was a) put a bunch of old photos together b) realize there's a resemblence in the Wendt photo and c) decide to work from there as new people were added to the credits.

Wow. I've spent way too much time on this!
And I for one thank you, because this means I didn't have to do it. Aw, who am I kidding? I wouldn't have done it anyway.

I think you have pretty much nailed it. Might I add that in the original credits, the Ted Danson, Shelley Long photo clearly shows customers, thus it cannot refer to Sam and Diane.
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