Feeling a bit derranged me am.

[Lobsang]

It's 5:55am and I haven't been to sleep. Going to go out early and do my christmas shopping. That is assuming the town is open.

I'm considering taking up the habit of cycling after work rather than before it. Just as something to do with myself other than feel sorry for it.

I've decided to see if typing this up and posting it will help. If it will not help then at least it's something to do while I wait for the mundane parts of everyday living to take priority.

Recently I found out some things about a girl who I am in Love with and who I care about anyway. These things (one in particular) shocked me, and as I sat in a friends car (the friend had let it slip... asuming I already knew) processing the information I felt something very powerful and very odd in my stomach/heart/whatever that I've felt very rarely, possibly never before.

She cares about me too (or she apparently does) but doesn't have any feelings for me, why should she? anyway I don't hold that against her. The point is she cares, and so when she sees that I have something on my mind and that I look down it gets her down. Not wanting to bring everyone's spirits down (and especially not wanting to get hers down) I cannot stop myself from telling her what's going through my mind... so I do.

These things probably should stay in my mind and I should put on a happy face and deal with the thoughts in private.. but as I say I cannot do it. I may have already blurted out too much about my inner hell. So far none of it has adversely affected the friendship or the comfort between us.

I am an incredibly withdrawn and shy person. I have had a sheltered life and I have never had a relationship. I've never had sex. I have serious personal space issues.

I am finding out very quickly and very horribly that I am the jealous type. One of her group of friends is a detestable letcherous asshole. Everyone despises him.. and I the impossible-not-to-like idiot have befriended him. He's done me some favours yet I hate his guts. Being the letch that he is he has no problem getting close to her and making sexual inuendo constantly. Yet she allows it... and even seems to enjoy it!

These two do their rota between them and rota themselves in on all the same days. I am not alone in asserting that being in the same room as those two is torture. I have it worse though because I love one of them and hate the other one!

So my job is hell because I have to spend seven hours a day watching the guy I hate letch on the girl I love.

One of the things I've blabbed to her is this fact (that I hate it). She feeds me some bullshit about there not being any alternative and she lets him do all this because she has to watch her back (He nearly hit her once, and stated that he might hit her in future) She told me that scared her and she remains scared.

I'm also worried that this and all the other sdmb threads about her might be discovered.. I made a stupid stupid error that could expose my sdmb persona. But as the others are done this one can be done.

I hate myself for hating the guy.. He genuinelly thinks I like him and we are good friends. But i've USED him. I've used his blabbermouth. I've used him because of a mutual friend.

Normally when one falls in love and it is not reciprocated one should either get over the feelings or 'move on' as it were. For I to move on I would have to leave work.. and I have thought about it. I cannot be with her (when he's there) I cannot be without her. I want her all to myself.. I cannot have a friend as I am the jealous type and as soon as she does get a bf I might go mad (or maybe not... if it's a decent enough bloke I might be ok with it... her ex was a decent bloke... still is from what I can tell. me and him get on and seem to be becoming friends)

Me and here are good friends. Close friends. I'm fucked. Not in a good way!

Oh and I've got to buy thirteen christmas presents in one day! I might just say to everyone I'm an Atheist and don't celebrate christmas.

(only joking)

[Lobsang]

Further rambling...

On top of all this I might have developed the psychological problem of emotions fluctuating wildly. Seeming fairly unconnected to the current thoughts at the time I am either on cloud nine or depressed as hell. My self-esteem fluctuates wildly as well. My latest hangup is that I have an ugly face and an ugly voice. I know everyone hates their voice if they inadvertantly hear it but it's bugging me anyway. I was out at the christmas do.. normally with a few drinks in me you can't shut me up.. but if I have even the slightest reason to feel self-conscious I retreat into my shell. the other night I don't think I could string more than two words together... no amount of alcohol seemed able to rectify this. Probably a good thing as I was talking to her ex at one part of the evening and had I been in a more talkative mode I might have put my foot in it.

[Lobsang]

Thinking maybe I should do her a favour and stop feeling sorry for myself and get on with the job of living... I knew how to do that before I met her. And I should just put up with the him and her situation. He will. not. fuck. off.

I might borrow my boss' office for the duration of our shifts.

[Mangetout]

Lobsang, me old mucker, how about making a conscious effort to <put down> some of these cares? - it doesn't matter whether you're an athiest or a flyingspaghettimonsterist; this is the season to be enjoying the few bright pleasures of life amid the darkness of winter, and generally relaxing.
If these things are so far beyond your control, then they'll manage fine on their own for a week or so without you fretting about them; I know it's far easier for me to sit here and say it than it is for you to do it, but how about giving it a try?; if all is lost right now, then all will still be lost next week - might as well spend the time in between doing something other than moping about it.

That's not to say that the behaviour of this other guy isn't a concern, but what can you do? You've made your position abundantly clear; this girl is presumably an adult with her own free will; trust her to see, on her own, this jerk as the jerk that he is. Jealousy will make you do stupid things that will have bad and lasting consequences.

Mate, just say 'fuck it' and unplug for a while.

[Quartz]

Lobsang, when was the last time you had a holiday? And I mean a holiday away from both friends and family.

[Lobsang]

I think posting the OP did help a bit. Today I feel more normal. Sad, but a little more sane. I got some christmas shopping done. Not all of it, but the most important of it.

Later I told her some of the issues I mention in the OP, about my opinion of the guy. About my inability to work properly.

I still hate myself for hating the guy. Especially as there's a part of me that knows how it feels to be him. I've been in a situation where I detested my personal appearance and thought everyone had a low opinion of me.

I have a very analytical mind. Before work and before the shopping I was going over the recent self esteem issues. I went back to my childhood as a very withdrawn quiet child.

Then I remembered something which I had virtually blocked out up to now. Something which if I was not already withdrawn... would surely have sent me into my shell and destroyed my confidence. That damage is permanent. To this day I have no confidence. That something was a false rumour spread that I was Gay and had been caught in the act with a friend.

Back then I was not as liberal-minded as I am now. I was convinced everyone assumed the rumour to be true, including all the girls I fancied (not fancied all at once). So I got no action or experience. One thing didn't lead to another and Suddenly I'm 26 and virginal with personal space issues and social awkwardness.

The reason this is related to the saga is that at some point I thought the girl in the saga might have feelings, raising self esteem average. But causing me to agonise over the fact that if we did start going out I would have the problem of no experience courting.

Now that I know she doesn't share my feelings my self-esteem dropped back to previous levels, hence my sadness.


But I feel some motivation to pick myself up and pick up the getting in shape habit. There are things about my appearance that I don't like. rather than wallow in self pity I am telling myself to keep up the regime and deal with those things.

She's pleased that I'm being cool with the stay friends outcome.

[Lobsang]

Where's the old Lobsang?

[Quartz]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

One thing didn't lead to another and Suddenly I'm 26 and virginal with personal space issues and social awkwardness.

So? I'm 39 and a virgin. Sometimes it happens. That's life.

[Lobsang]

Sorry to bump.

At last.. a shift with her without him!

FYI I've never said this but she is a very attractive girl. Perhaps that might help people understand things a little better.

Today we got closer. I am not cool, I brought up the issue of my feelings and her reply. I tried to get her to admit that even if she was in 'that place' she would not be in it with me. But she would not. She said she's seeing a new side of me and is liking me more and more every time she learns something new about me, and that there's a possibility. I told her later that I'm coming out of my shell. Me and her are such good mates. soul mates perhaps???

Anyway... I aint getting my hopes up. I've upgraded my opinion of my chances from 'never' to 'remote'. I take pride in knowning that I am percieved as being cool about the whole thing and not being an asshole about it.

[Lobsang]

Oh boy do I Love this girl.

[Mangetout]

I think you need to find some other things to occasionally turn your attention upon; how can you be friends with this girl if every conversation you have with her is so damn intense and is all about your feelings and desires for her?

Your yearning for this thing to happen could be the very thing that's driving it further away from being a possibility.

That is, of course if your posting style/content here is anything like yoiur real-life persona/behaviour, which I'm fully prepared to understand may not be the case. Anyway, what was the last thing you spoke to her about that wasn't on the subject of you and her?

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

... what was the last thing you spoke to her about that wasn't on the subject of you and her?

As it happens most of what we talk about is not about me-and-her. Lately it's about the boss.

My real life persona is way way cooler than my MB persona. My real life persona spends ninety-seven percent of it's time concentrating on seeming to be cool and impartial to current events.

[Lobsang]

my msn email is pjlobley_spam@manx.net and I welcome anyone and everyone willing to tell me what to do.

after tonight I won't see her for a week.... I need someone to talk to in that space of time.

I have my new camera with me (I finally got a real SLR) and all I want to do is take a picture of her... but it would be too creepy... specially her knowning how I feel.

[Guinastasia]

Lobsang, I'm going to be very blunt here: you are obsessed to this girl and it's not going to end well. For your own sake, please seek help.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Lobsang, I'm going to be very blunt here: you are obsessed to this girl and it's not going to end well. For your own sake, please seek help.

Easier said than done. Assuming I do seek help; Be it from a counsilor or psychologist (p.s. my dad is one of the latter and he is aware of the situation) What good can they do?

I don't think I'm obsessed. I think I'm just unlucky. I am a socially inept virgin who met a young, pretty, overtly-friendly girl and mistook that friendliness for interest.

In time I will either get over her or she will get interested in me. But this is now. I am not over her at this moment in time. I love her at this moment in time. Take it from me I may be seeming to be out of control on the boards.. but my board persona is a heck of a lot more open and uncool than my irl persona. My irl persona is cool and is keeping it's personal hell a private hell.

[Guinastasia]

The problem is, you've painted a pretty unflattering portrait of this girl. She sounds like a manipulative little snot, and it's not healthy for you to keep pining over her. Take it from another socially-inept virgin-it's not worth it.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

The problem is, you've painted a pretty unflattering portrait of this girl. She sounds like a manipulative little snot, and it's not healthy for you to keep pining over her. Take it from another socially-inept virgin-it's not worth it.

I did, for one day, paint an unflattering portrait of her. Since then I've got to know her better and better. I get to know her better every day I spend with her. Friendship-wise things are moving fast. I see her in a different light than most people. She may have a long list of faults (believe me my other friends don't let me forget them) but her existence in my life has changed me. She's brought me out of my shell, she's changed me, she's given me self-confidence that was taken away from me by 'friends' in my distant past. Thanks to her I have self esteem.

Even if it's not worth it... If it is indeed not worth it... how do you suggest I progress from here?

[levdrakon]

What? This woman is perfect for you, virgin-boy? Gimme a break. Here's a clue. There are 6.5 billion people on this planet. Roughly 3.25 of them are women. Many of those are in fact, fabulous. Most likely much, much, much better for you than this woman you're obsessing over.

Go out and give them a chance.

I care not one wit that you're a virgin.

I do care that you're obsessing, and obsessing just snowballs into ever more alarming forms of obsession.

Go out, and talk to someone else.

[levdrakon]

Ok, I meant roughly 3.25 billion of them are women

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

What? This woman is perfect for you, virgin-boy? Gimme a break. Here's a clue. There are 6.5 billion people on this planet. Roughly 3.25 of them are women. Many of those are in fact, fabulous. Most likely much, much, much better for you than this woman you're obsessing over.

Go out and give them a chance.

I care not one wit that you're a virgin.

I do care that you're obsessing, and obsessing just snowballs into ever more alarming forms of obsession.

Go out, and talk to someone else.

When I'm sober I'll interpret this and reply accordingly.

For now, my answer is this... of the 3.25 billion women out there (of which only a very small range are compatible... due to, amongst other factors...age and geography) I am friends with not a single one of them. I am friends with but one single woman. I did not, nor ever (I believe) say she was perfect (correct me if I am wrong). I merely said I love her. Is it not possible to love a person without being 'obsessed'? Is it an obsession when you love someone and they don't love you back? Is it an obsession when the person you love knows you love them and yet is still a great and rewarding friend? Is it an obsession when you make use and take liberties regarding the ease with which it is possible to share intimate thoughts and feelings with complete strangers as long as it's on the internet?

[LiQUiDBuD]

Lobsang, how can you give this girl all the credit for you "coming out of your shell". Obviously you had a lot to do with you "coming out of your shell". As a matter of fact, she's not responsible for that by any means. You decided to open up because you wanted to and thought that she would be receptive to that; there's no reason why you can't open up even more by meeting other girls. And it seems pretty obvious that she tailors her behavior depending on who is around her at the time, which should send up a long series of large red flags. I hate to be one to rain on your parade, but she's just stringing you along. You've admitted your feelings to her and those feelings quite honestly aren't mutual. Sure she's nice to you and you both get "closer" when you're alone with her, but she's close with the abusive jerk and nice to him when he's around. That's gotta tell you something. Listen to what it speaks. Move on with your life and it will greatly improve. Good luck to you and I hope you abandon this tortuous obsession with a girl who's not worthy of a guy like yourself.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

When I'm sober I'll interpret this and reply accordingly.

I don't care if you're sober or not, but if you're using your not-being-sober as an excuse for something, I'd look into that.

For now, my answer is this... of the 3.25 billion women out there (of which only a very small range are compatible... due to, amongst other factors...age and geography) I am friends with not a single one of them.

Which is why I told you to go out and meet some of them.

I am friends with but one single woman. I did not, nor ever (I believe) say she was perfect (correct me if I am wrong). I merely said I love her.

It's kinda creepy you're only friends with one woman. It really is. If you can't be friends with other women, I have to wonder how you can be in love with this one particular woman, without it being an obsession.

Is it not possible to love a person without being 'obsessed'?

Yes.

Is it an obsession when you love someone and they don't love you back?

It's unrequited love. Happens all the time.

Is it an obsession when the person you love knows you love them and yet is still a great and rewarding friend?

Depends on how much value you put on "great and rewarding friend."

Is it an obsession when you make use and take liberties regarding the ease with which it is possible to share intimate thoughts and feelings with complete strangers as long as it's on the internet?

No.

[Rilchiam]

Originally Posted by Lobsang

She cares about me too (or she apparently does) but doesn't have any feelings for me, why should she? anyway I don't hold that against her. The point is she cares, and so when she sees that I have something on my mind and that I look down it gets her down. Not wanting to bring everyone's spirits down (and especially not wanting to get hers down) I cannot stop myself from telling her what's going through my mind...so I do.

This is another red flag to me. How much attention does she pay to you when you're not "looking down"? How does the conversation go, in these situations? Reason I ask is, I went through something like this when I was 18; the guy was playing me like a violin.

I'm going to give you details of a specific incident. See if this rings any bells for you. We were having the end-of-semester review, and this guy knew that this was a huge source of stress for me. We happened to be in the same core group, so he was getting his review at the same time. I went in first, and amazingly, it was far less traumatic than I had expected it to be! When I came out, I was joyous, and wanted to tell him how well it had gone. But he would have none of that. He immediately put his arms around me, pulled my head to his shoulder, and started patting me. I pulled away and tried again to tell him that I wasn't upset. He pulled me close again and patted me again. I pulled away a second time and made another attempt to tell him what had happened. Again he pulled me to him and put his chin on my head. So I gave up and went along with it because this was, I felt, my only chance to have his arms around me.

Never mind that he was being totally condescending. Never mind that he was not listening to me. Never mind that he only ever paid attention to me when I was upset, and brushed me off curtly when I was happy. I was desperate for any kind of contact with him, and if that came at the price of playing up depression and resisting recovery, so be it. I went along with this for a long time (relative to my age then), and it only stopped when he found someone else more needy. And all the times I let him push my buttons, and gave him personal info about my life and my feelings, only increased his power over me, and my helplessness.

I know, I know: this girl isn't like that. But is she? She may be. And it may not be conscious with her. But I would not recommend that you let someone rule your emotions, especially if they only notice your negative emotions. If she really cares for you, she'd want to be with you for good times as well as bad. Having seen your latest thread, I also have to ask, what did you talk about at the bar? I hope there were some neutral topics.

Anyway, my advice is resist, resist, resist. And change jobs if possible.

[Rilchiam]

Okay, I've been reading some of your other threads on this subject.

---She has a kid? Be advised that if you ever did have a relationship with her, you wouldn't be able to have her all to yourself; the child would always be first with her. (At least s/he should be.) Also, being a good Uncle Lobsang requires more patience and understanding than simply "I love everyone connected with her, so of course I love her child and we'll get along great!"

---You lent her money? Another red flag. I hope you're not holding on to that as "proof" that you guys have a connection, i.e., "But I lent her money! That means we're friends for life!"

---She got drunk, then came to work and handed in a resignation, which was disregarded because she was so visibly drunk at the time? BIG red flag. Does she have other drama queen characteristics that you haven't disclosed?

---Fact is, no one is perfect. It seems that you think she is, though, and you've convinced yourself that no one else will do. That's not so. Get her off the pedestal, now. And I second, third, whatever, the recommendations of counseling.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Rilchiam

Okay, I've been reading some of your other threads on this subject.

---She has a kid? Be advised that if you ever did have a relationship with her, you wouldn't be able to have her all to yourself; the child would always be first with her. (At least s/he should be.) Also, being a good Uncle Lobsang requires more patience and understanding than simply "I love everyone connected with her, so of course I love her child and we'll get along great!"

Patience and understanding are my middle names. I fully understand the kid is #1 in her life and always will be. Will I ever be #2? It's not looking likely.

---You lent her money? Another red flag. I hope you're not holding on to that as "proof" that you guys have a connection, i.e., "But I lent her money! That means we're friends for life!"

I don't remember admitting to that, but if I did I did. The money is barely an issue I lent it. She's set up repayments. There is nothing more regarding that for I and her to discuss.

---She got drunk, then came to work and handed in a resignation, which was disregarded because she was so visibly drunk at the time? BIG red flag. Does she have other drama queen characteristics that you haven't disclosed?

Her 'resignation' turned out to be a text message to the boss who is in the USA at the moment (and was at the time) She knew the office was skeleten-crewed (me and a few others) But it was revealed that night and afterwards that her thoughts of resignation were serious. She doesn't drink often, but she is a bit of a drama-queen. The most insignificant things can be big worries to her, but that gives me chance to reasure her. I am laid back, she knows it, she knows she can talk to me about her problems. Some have said that I am her closest aly, I take that with a pinch of salt but it's nice to know if it happens to be true.

---Fact is, no one is perfect. It seems that you think she is, though, and you've convinced yourself that no one else will do. That's not so. Get her off the pedestal, now. And I second, third, whatever, the recommendations of counseling.

I know her faults. I know she's not perfect. But unfortunately have fallen. I'm not about to fall. I've already fallen. The damage is done and was done a long time ago. There is a chance to heal... by finding a new job, getting away from her. But she hasn't said we'll never be together... In fact she's said she can't say that because she doesn't know... she's liking me more the more she gets to know me. How can I break contact knowing there might be a bright future.

Perhaps this pain is necesary. If she's bad news, a witch? Does that mean she doesn't deserve to be with someone, doesn't deserve someone who thinks the world of her as I do?

RE: the counseling.. I have my father, a qualified psychologist to help. Not that I'm making excuses.



I told her that as a kid I had my confidence destroyed. What I haven't told her is that one good thing that's come out of all of this is my confidence is being restored.

[Lobsang]

Rilchiam in reply to your other post...

She does not only notice my negative emotions. And since then I have either not had them or not shown them. I feel the worst when I'm not with her. My mind races through the whole situation analysing it at a hundred miles an hour when I am alone. But when I'm with her I am mostly happy and I probably show it.

p.s. I've thought about posting things unrelated here to get my mind off it. I can't though. I used to post here when I was bored or had nothing else to do. Now, when I am not occupied I am thinking about her and the situation and the history and the future.

I wish life were more liberal and simplistic.. I wish I could say to her "I know you don't want a relationship, I accept that, But I love being with you. Can't I just be with you more?"

[Canadiangirl]

Hi, Lobsang. I don't post very often however I watch a lot. I've watched you slowly deteriorate into this girl so much that you are losing yourself. Either find a hobby (WITHOUT her), some other way to spend time other than in the office gazing hopefully into the future, please do something. :leans forward and waves her hand: We miss you.

[Guinastasia]

Lobsang, she's just stringing you along. It's cruel to keep someone hoping by saying, "Well, I don't KNOW, maybe someday I'll fall for you!"

Quite honestly, you're sounding very creepy and unhealthy.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Lobsang, she's just stringing you along. It's cruel to keep someone hoping by saying, "Well, I don't KNOW, maybe someday I'll fall for you!"

Quite honestly, you're sounding very creepy and unhealthy.

Well It's a good job I'm keeping a cool exterior IRL. I'd hate to start seeming creepy to all my friends and colleagues, of which I have a lot more now.


I'm working through it Guinastasia, SDMB is where I release the tension.

[Rilchiam]

Lobsang, you've got to break this pattern. Now. Make it your New Year's resolution.

I don't like these statements. I could have made them myself, in situations past:

But she hasn't said we'll never be together... In fact she's said she can't say that because she doesn't know... she's liking me more the more she gets to know me. How can I break contact knowing there might be a bright future.

Perhaps this pain is necesary. If she's bad news, a witch? Does that mean she doesn't deserve to be with someone, doesn't deserve someone who thinks the world of her as I do?

My mind races through the whole situation analysing it at a hundred miles an hour when I am alone.

But based on this:

I've thought about posting things unrelated here to get my mind off it. I can't though. I used to post here when I was bored or had nothing else to do. Now, when I am not occupied I am thinking about her and the situation and the history and the future.

I think at this point, you're mostly doing it to yourself. Get counseling. Seriously. Not your father, not this board. One on one counseling. From your other threads, I get that you have issues dating back before you even met this girl, and you need to deal with them.

I've been where you are. I know how hopeless it all feels. But you can get past it, and if I were a praying woman, I would pray that you will.

[Guinastasia]

Listen to Rilchiam. It's one thing to let off steam on this board. It's quite another to use it to avoid getting help and actually trying to solve your problems.

Look, I'm not trying to be nasty, but I think you need a big bucket of ice water dumped on your head to realize just what an unhealthy situation you are in.

Good luck.

[Lobsang]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

Listen to Rilchiam. It's one thing to let off steam on this board. It's quite another to use it to avoid getting help and actually trying to solve your problems.

Look, I'm not trying to be nasty, but I think you need a big bucket of ice water dumped on your head to realize just what an unhealthy situation you are in.

Good luck.

I don't mean to seem ungreatful of your advice. I thank you for it.

I know I'm in an unhealthy situation. It's easier now that christmas and New Year are out of the way. I was under a hell of a lot of stress for those two weeks.

Rilchiam I do have issues from before I met her. They were pushed right to the back of my brain. Then meeting her brought them right to the front, begging to be analysed and dealt with. I've dealt with them one by one, partly with the help of friends... including her.