Could Mcdonalds invade a Country, If so, what size.

[Shalmanese]

Okay, ignoring all the legal implications and whoo ha, just assume that every other country just turned a blind eye and burnt all their treaties. Would a large Megacorp like Mcdonalds have the economic power to finance an invasion and governance of a small, out of the way country.

That is, could it sustain several years of out and out battle and then the economic rebuilding and rehabilitation of its populace while still having to deal with sporadic guerilla attacks.

Just for the sim, we will assume that the country is not going to be lucridiously hilly like Afganistan and that Mcdonalds can get pretty much any available miltary HW at street prices.

If so, approximatly what size country would it be able to take over without risking bankruptcy? Are we taking a Solomon Islad or maybe Madagascar or something closer to Mexico?

[nightshadea]

Therotically it might happen but theres no point in it

this sounds like a homemade shadowrun rpg module....

But one of the books based on the game says that techincally there would be no profit in a mega corp taking over the actual goverment unless it cut off all services ie how would it make a profit in trash pickup ect......

In the world of the game the goverment exists so the corps dont have to bother with such unpfrotiable details

Also youd have 2 classes of citizens the "corporate citizens" wiht all the perks of the corporate society and the great unwashed

The role of the civic goverment would be the taking care of the non corporate citizens

So there would be no reason why a company would want to take over a goverment

Now there has been a couple of cases where a company started a war but it was to protect their intrest

the dole pineapple company in hawaii is the first that springs to mind but it wasnt to rule per se it was to be come a us territory and stop the threathened nationalization of the sugar fields

[Shalmanese]

I'm not saying that there would be any reason, I am asking whether it is feasible.

ie, would a current megacorp have enough resources to start and win a open war.

Maybe they just need a country for tax reasons or something.

[istara]

They already did invade just about every country on the map, brainwashing youth with the evil McDoctrine of Thou Shalt Eat Crap, and putting up statues to their vile clownic-idol all over the place.

Seriously, megacorps with their own armies has happened before. IIRC the East India Tea/Spice?? company had one a while back.

[Sofa King]

Sure. All Mickey D would have to do is hire a mercenary firm like the late, unlamented Executive Outcomes. It has been speculated that EO may have been somehow connected with DeBeers, which would imply that EO served as a de facto corporate paramilitary wing.

However, EO tried and failed to quell an insurrection on the remote secessionist island of Bouganville, for which EO was contracted for $34 million for 40 mercs and their hardware by Papua New Guinea. That probably means McDonalds would need to cough up more cash for a larger and more competent mercenary force if they want to take over anything larger than a South Pacific island.

[Whack-a-Mole]

Originally posted by istara
They already did invade just about every country on the map...

Yup...with Russia probably being the largest or at the least the best armed behind the US.

[glee]

Maybe you should look up the history of the East India Company.

I think their budget may have exceeded McDonalds!

[Mersavets]

What about personnel? Do you really trust the current staff of 15 year olds to handle artillery? I guess their food qualifies as experience with chemical and biological weapons but it mightn't be enough. Entire regiments would be led by 19 year old managers and soldiers would have to fit atrocities and barbarism around school commitments and household chores.

The entire debacle would only encourage other fast food adventurism and competition for them. KFC would be better cut out for it as at least their figurehead had pretensions to militarism.

[cainxinth]

what a crazy question

Why not, MickeyD’s could definitely put together a couple billion dollars for a short military campaign. As for what size country they could successfully invade, i doubt they could handle anything fiercer than Aruba.

[Snooooopy]

The streets with be red with the blood of the nonbelievers!

Or ketchup. Definitely one of the two.

[CalMeacham]

If you want to read a fictional treatment of something like this, read Frederick Forsyth's The Dogs of War or see the movie, with Christopher Walken. But the book's better.

[woolly]

Originally posted by Sofa King
However, EO tried and failed to quell an insurrection on the remote secessionist island of Bouganville, for which EO was contracted for $34 million for 40 mercs and their hardware by Papua New Guinea

This isn't correct.

Sandline was contracted by Chris Haiveta, Deputy Prime Minister in Julius Chan's P-N-G government in 1997 for the recapture of the Bougainville Copper Mine, but the mercenaries were never deployed. Executive Outcomes was providing personnel and expertise for the contract. Operatives had started to arrive in P-N-G and there was revolt by the P-N-G Defence Force and the Government fell (though not in a coup).

AFAIK P-N-G still owes Sandline millions of dollars for an aborted contract to hire mercenaries to fight the Bougainville war.

[Sofa King]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification, wooly.

[chukhung]

According to McDonalds' annual report at this site http://biz.yahoo.com/e/010323/mcd.html, McDonalds' most recent annual net income was 1.997 billion US dollars.

Let's assume that McDonalds stops paying dividends and devotes its income to producing an unholy army of conquest. (This would be a tricky sell to the shareholders. Perhaps if they promised to distribute the missing dividends as booty from the invasion...)

$2 billion a year compares pretty favorably to the annual defense spending of countries such as Jamaica ($30 million, FY95/96 est.), Nigeria ($360 million, FY00), or Indonesia ($1 billion, FY98/99) (Source: CIA Factbook at http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/) But I think we have to keep in mind that McDonald's will be starting from scratch. As far as I know, it really doesn't have much of a military infrastructure and it is, of course, a lot cheaper to maintain a fleet of strategic bombers than to buy new ones, for example.

On the other hand, military expenditures are notoriously wasteful and maybe a lean corporation like McDonalds--with it's eye on the bottom line--could get more bang for its buck, so to speak, than a typical government.

The biggest unknown in the equation would be the question of military alliances. Although McDonalds might be able to put together a military juggernaut that could crush Jamaica, would Jamaica have to stand alone against the Golden (Arches) Horde? I think not. France is obviously spoiling for a fight against the Army of Ronald and I'm guessing that within hours of the commencement of hostilities, you'd see Legionnaires mobilized and on their way to stop the McArmy on the beaches. France's annual military spending (39.831 billion, FY97) dwarfs what McDonalds can muster and its independent nuclear capability would certainly force McDonalds to think twice about its evil dreams of military conquest.

Perhaps, you wonder, McDonalds could attack a pariah state that even France couldn't stomach defending? Good luck. Annual military expenditures in North Korea are estimated at between $3.7 billion to $4.9 billion (FY98) and Iraq is, obviously, a tough nut to crack.

My conclusion: Even with McDonalds immense financial muscle, it would be impractical for it to launch a full-out military assault against a sovereign nation. Wars of conquest are awfully difficult these days (witness Iraq) and I just don't think McDonald's could pull it off. Certainly not if it faced any opposition from the world's major military powers (which I believe would be inevitable).

[Finagle]

Well, Microsoft has something like 30 billion dollars hidden under the mattress, so they could probably fund a pretty decent battalion of geeks. But the biggest problem would be getting cannon fodder. You can't pay soldiers minimum wage and expect them to be grim, steely-eyed machines of death. Typically a soldier is either conscripted (which a company can't do), fighting for patriotism (not an option of MacD's, possible for MS, given the religious nature of computer wars on the net), or is a mercenary. Mercenaries aren't cheap and if you don't pay them on schedule, they tend to desert, rape and pillage rather than fight. Further, it's not clear where (outside of Montana) you'd find a large pool of well-armed nutcases who want to get shot at for money. Unless you hire your mercenaries from the same country, you tend to end up with an army that is internally divisive in terms of language and culture.


My guess -- a large corporation would be more subtle than most governments. Rather than engaging in a protracted military action, you can expect a corporation to resort to blackmail, bribery, election rigging, and occasional acts of well-concealed assassination or intimidation for a mostly peaceful takeover of a country.

The other alternative would be ultra high-tech warfare -- e.g., build a horde of tiny spider-like robots armed with potent neurotoxins and just enough sensors to attack anything military and let them rip. But the R&D alone for something like that would run into the billions.

[Chronos]

Further, it's not clear where (outside of Montana) you'd find a large pool of well-armed nutcases who want to get shot at for money.

Why rule out Montana? We are, after all, a major producer of beef.

[chukhung]

Originally posted by Finagle
But the biggest problem would be getting cannon fodder.

You make an excellent point, Finagle. I pretty much ignored that in my previous post because I figured if McDonalds is able to get the people to work in their restaurants, recruiting an army would be a snap for them. I know a couple of guys who joined the U.S. armed services because, in their words, "it was better than flippin' burgers."

Still, to be practical, I wonder if McDonalds could do something similar to how the British recruit Gurkhas (there's an interesting article on the process at http://www.reportage.org/2001/NepalG...s/Article.html ). Despite their status as quasi-mercenaries and the fact that the officers of the Gurkha regiments have to learn a second language to command them, the Gurkhas are still an extremely well-regarded fighting force.

[dead]

As I recall, Jardine Matheson paid the British government the full cost of invading China in the first Opium War.
Previous to that, The British East India Company took over most of India.
So the answer is - yes it's already been done. And about the size of India or China.

[Crown Prince of Irony]

Wal-Mart, with over $219b in revenue and $6.6b in profits, has plenty of the requisite matériel already in its inventory, and I betcha some of their elderly door-greeters are war veterans, so they have a built-in pool of military advisors.

All they need to do is pull from stock any merchandise suitable for combat use as a deadly weapon (K-Bar type knives, rifles, pistols, hunting bows, baseball bats), buy a few hundred APC's and Humvees, and send their 1.3 million employees to boot camp, and they would have a force that, while lacking in training, would more than compensate in expendable manpower.

Hell, Wal-Mart could probably easily convert their pharmacies ito produce crude but effective chemical weapons.

Let's hope no-one pisses off the Walton family. . .

[Daoloth]

The Dutch East India Company (VOC) actually one battles against the Portuguese navy...

Anyway, check out this satirical article.

[Daoloth]

Arg! That should be "won", not "one."

Heh, Wal-Mart's 1.3 million "troops" is equal to the amount that North Korea has- and they have the fourth largest standing army in the world!

[Rysdad]

Jesus. I'm going to be extra nice to the Wal-Mart matron next times she says bids me, "Have a nice day!". Wouldn't want her practicing her silent, quick-kill Recondo techniques on me.

Come to think of it...they just might have a larger small arms arsenal than alot of little island nations.

So that's what happens to all of the little mom-and-pop hardware stores when Wal-Mart moves in: terminated with extreme prejudice.

[KneadToKnow]

Could Mcdonalds invade a Country, If so, what size.

Super size?

[Mersavets]

So as a McValue Meal, they could take the Benelux countries and for an extra dollar, they could upsize to the Balkans.

[Shalmanese]

Originally posted by chukhung

The biggest unknown in the equation would be the question of military alliances. Although McDonalds might be able to put together a military juggernaut that could crush Jamaica, would Jamaica have to stand alone against the Golden (Arches) Horde? I think not. France is obviously spoiling for a fight against the Army of Ronald and I'm guessing that within hours of the commencement of hostilities, you'd see Legionnaires mobilized and on their way to stop the McArmy on the beaches. France's annual military spending (39.831 billion, FY97) dwarfs what McDonalds can muster and its independent nuclear capability would certainly force McDonalds to think twice about its evil dreams of military conquest.

remember, I am assuming that no other countries will come to their aid. I really thought that Mcdonalds would have a bit more disposable income than that. 2 billion could get you a decent airforce (at ~5 million a plane) but getting any sort of Sat Comm or other high tech equipment would be out of their range. I previously suspected they would just go the hundreds of soldiers with small arms deal but then others have pointed out that soldiers are not easy to get. What about relying heavily or Artilliry and tanks and other labour unintensive devices to use in fighting?

[Sue Duhnym]

Originally posted by Snooooopy
The streets with be red with the blood of the nonbelievers!

Or ketchup. Definitely one of the two.

BAHAHAHAHA!!!

[Bryan Ekers]

But if they recruit their soldiers from within their own employee base, they'll have to stage all invasions during the summer because in September, the cannon fodder heads back to class.

I'm just picturing a 17 year-old with a flamethrower, his tears of glory cutting lines in the ashes and blood darkening his face, spraying waves of inferno into enemy bunkers and screaming "YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT, MOTHERFUCKER?!?!"

[Motog]

They already have: does anybody remember McDonaldland - the puppet state set up by McDonald's?

I've never understood why Amnesty International hasn't looked into that one

[Motog]

Originally posted by chukhung
France is obviously spoiling for a fight against the Army of Ronald and I'm guessing that within hours of the commencement of hostilities, you'd see Legionnaires mobilized and on their way to stop the McArmy on the beaches.

.... where the French would immediately implement their standard military tactic of unconditional surrender

[scm1001]

McDonalds would not have to do any fighting. A couple of millions in bribes and lobbyists should do it. The United Fruit Company (UFCO) convinced the US government and CIA in the 50's to sponsor a nasty coup in guatemala because their interests were threatened.

"The campaign succeeded and in 1954 the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency orchestrated a coup, code-named "Operation PBSUCCESS". The invading force numbered only 150 men under the command of Castillo Armas but the CIA convinced the Guatemalan public and President Arbenz that a major invasion was underway. The CIA set up a clandestine radio station to carry propaganda, jammed all Guatemalan stations, and hired skilled American pilots to bomb strategic points in Guatemala City. The U.S. replaced the freely elected government of Guatemala with another right-wing dictatorship that would again bend to UFCO's will"


One of the less noble events in amercian history

see http://www.mayaparadise.com/ufc1e.htm and lots of other links

[Shalmanese]

But no other countries would be allowed to get involved. This is purely and simply a Mcdonalds vs Country X dealie. No outside assiatance by anyone.

[chukhung]

Originally posted by Shalmanese
I really thought that Mcdonalds would have a bit more disposable income than that.

Well, keep in mind that my scenario was based on the premise that McDonalds would fund its insane dreams of conquest strictly with the profits from its ongoing operations. I.e., they'd just use the money they clear from selling burgers to buy a completely separate military arm. If McDonalds is willing to sell some of its assets or move current employees out of burger-flipping and into grenade-tossing, then they've got a lot more to work with.

The problem would be sustainability. Conquering another country can be a long and tedious process. Without an ongoing, sustainable revenue source, the unholy Army of Ronald may not be in a position to mount a serious campaign.

(On the other hand, you've got to think that Happy Meal sales are going to slump once CNN starts showing pictures of tanks with the Mark of the Arches rumbling through the streets of some innocent country, blasting away.)

[Just Some Guy]

What about the stock price? If McDonalds or Microsoft or any other large corporation announced tomorrow that they were abandoning their core business in order to take over a country then the first thing that would happen would be their investors would lose all confidence in them. So whatever you think they could take now it would likely be a lot less after they declare war.

[Bryan Ekers]

The United Fruit Company isn't the only example of a corporation influencing a war, if not actually participating in it. William Randolph Hearst pushed for the Spanish-American War pretty hard, mostly as a ploy to sell newspapers.

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

McDonalds, if they were wise, would attack a country suffering from famine. Follow these steps:

1) drop flyers over the country offering to feed four family members of every soldier that enlists.
2) Set up small, heavily defended recruiting outposts/burger joints.
3) Build their army from the locals.

I'm guessing they could succeed pretty well with a carrot/stick approach, although "carrot" is probably an inappropriate metaphor.

Daniel

[CarnalK]

As far as cannon fodder is concerned, the corporation would have to think long term. Invest in the Future!

First buy an out of the way island. Adopt an appropriate number of orphans and ship them in. They will become MSpartans. With good instructors the system could be up in 20-25 yrs.

Then choose a country(or a dislodgeable section of a country) that would make a good U.S export location. Once taken over, a Corporate collectivism could be set up. All citizens get room&board and medical&dental. Perks for employees of the month. Move any questionable business/environmental practices to your new tax haven.

For cosmetics some kind of puppet would have to be in place of course. And none of this could happen without U.S consent of course. As posted above, it's been done before. God speed Bill.

ps- as for the shareholders. umm, don't tell them?

[CarnalK]

Lol. So Daniel you would be a "Dove" and I would be a "Hawk" on the corporate board.

-CarnalK

[mobo85]

If McDonald's did take over a country, wouldn't it be sort of a communist or dictatorship government?

Think about it. McDonald's, being the head of government, would make sure they have no competition. If McDonald's took over the United States, they'd probably assasinate the major heads of other companies and bring another Holocaust onto Burger King and Wendy's employees.

McDonald's would control 100% of the fast food market. A monopoly, you say? Of course not! After all, McDonald's would own the American government.

[NewUser1]

My brother (who works at Fazolis) just informed me that the Mcdonalds corporation has just bought out the Fazolis Corporation. It has Begun.

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

A McDoodie's backed coup would be highly feasable. Bribing & corrupting the target country's own military would be cost-efficient & swift.

Alternatively, recruiting "cannon-fodder" from the desparately poor of many countries, & providing second-rate training could be done. Many Middle Eastern terrorist groups do this already. Come to think of it, so does McDoodies.

A good target would be Argentina-- good cattle grazing land, & lots of happy Facsists ready to do Der Fuerer of Fries' evil bidding.

[nightshadea]

wouldnt it be easier to find a empty island or country and start fresh ?

or just find a couple of cities or regions and have a war of independence ?

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally posted by nightshadea
wouldnt it be easier to find a empty island or country and start fresh ?

or just find a couple of cities or regions and have a war of independence ?

Where's the evil fun in that?!?!?

[kniz]

• ........................ JUMBO for an extra 39 cents
  .................................... ^{And that also goes for the fries}

[chukhung]

Well, now I'm not so sure that France would offer military aid to any country unlucky enough to be the target of a McInvasion.

This week's Economist includes the following

McDonald's is opening 30-40 new outlets a year in France, where it now has some 900 restaurants—more per head than most of its European neighbours, including Germany, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands….McDonald's now claims to be the leading restaurant chain in France. Its French sales and profits were both up by over 9% in 2001—a year when the company saw global net profits fall by 17%

Obviously McDonald's military strategy is more long-range and cunning than I had originally thought. First they intend to co-opt any country that would dare stand against it and then, when there's no one left to oppose their cruel plans, the hammer falls.

Welcome to McJamaica, mon. You wan' fries wid dat?

[Mtgman]

Originally posted by Just Some Guy
What about the stock price? If McDonalds or Microsoft or any other large corporation announced tomorrow that they were abandoning their core business in order to take over a country then the first thing that would happen would be their investors would lose all confidence in them. So whatever you think they could take now it would likely be a lot less after they declare war.

Please tell me you're not naieve enough to believe the ultimate goal of Microsoft is NOT world domination?

"One World. One Web. One Program" - Microsoft Ad

Steven

[Mtgman]

Originally posted by NewUser1
My brother (who works at Fazolis) just informed me that the Mcdonalds corporation has just bought out the Fazolis Corporation. It has Begun.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoOOOOOO[breath] OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

DAMNIT! That resturant rocked!

[clayton_e]

I very much believe they could, it would just take some time for them to switch their capital into wartime materials and make sure the general public of America does not realize what is happening. They could invest in old soviet weapons through the black market, third person of course, then slowly build up a group which could take over a small nation, perhaps luxemburgh (sp?) due to the closeness of the old soviet republic. However I do not see how this would really help McDonalds, the taking over of an already capitalistic nation would do them no good (they're already selling products there and an invasion would only bring down their own income due to boycotts) and any non-capitalistic or developing nations are already being systimatically broken down and prepared for capitalism/commercialism, where McDonalds can make a pretty penny without any controvercial invasion.

[Zach Lee]

Originally posted by Bryan Ekers


I'm just picturing a 17 year-old with a flamethrower, his tears of glory cutting lines in the ashes and blood darkening his face, spraying waves of inferno into enemy bunkers and screaming "YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT, MOTHERFUCKER?!?!"

Oh, man, Bry. Now I gotta clean chocolate shake offa my screen.

Seriously. ROTFLMAO.

[Zach Lee]

Originally posted by Just Some Guy
What about the stock price? If McDonalds or Microsoft or any other large corporation announced tomorrow that they were abandoning their core business in order to take over a country then the first thing that would happen would be their investors would lose all confidence in them. So whatever you think they could take now it would likely be a lot less after they declare war.

Actually, I was kinda under the impression that Wall Street LOVES these kind of no-holds-barred, aggressive takeover maneuvers. If they get the advertising guys working, the stock should soar, giving them more market cap room to finance the attempt.

[JS Princeton]

Why wouldn't McDonalds be more cunning in their takeover? W. Walker was able to take over Nicaragua with far less money than your average Mickey Dees franchise makes in a year. He had a vision and about 30 years of fumbling around before he made it, but, he MADE it. I think McDonalds could pull it off on some pretty large countries if the mood of certain political mucky-mucks in the country was right. Of course, they probably wouldn't say very much about it... if they were really cunning, no one would necessarily know...

Come to think of it, maybe it ALREADY HAS HAPPENED?

Where'd I put my aluminum foil hat?