|
|
|
|
#1
04-29-2003, 09:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Enterprise-Cogenitor
This is the best Enterprise yet. It is very good Trek.
I'm not going to spoil it. No hijacks, please. Serious discussion. Outstanding. Watch it. 
|
| Advertisements | |
|
|
|
|
#4
04-30-2003, 12:26 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I like this thread better!
|
|
#6
04-30-2003, 07:15 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
It is outstanding. Trek at it's best. Actions have consequences.
I'm looking forward towards discussion. Watch it.
|
|
#9
04-30-2003, 07:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Still watching.
I like the setup, waiting for the drop. Apparantly, Prime Directive type sentiments are one way only. No qualms at all about receiving advanced technology. I just saw what Tripp did. Bad boy. How will it turn out? TBH, I would've had the same obsession. Back with more.
|
|
#11
04-30-2003, 07:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The alien Captain is the guy who played Romulan Comanader Tomolak on TNG and G'Kar on Babylon 5.
|
|
#14
04-30-2003, 07:58 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Good episode. Would have been better if it wasn't so predictable.
__________________
Why become a fourth Yeti?
|
|
#15
04-30-2003, 07:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Predictable, hell!
I thought we were in for another help the downtrodden-our-way-is-the-best episode.
|
|
#16
04-30-2003, 08:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
This is an ENT worthy of all the special Treks. -------------------- SPOILER:
Sure, it had forshadowing, but THAT was NOT predictable.
|
|
#17
04-30-2003, 08:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yeah it was more serious than usual, but the setup required Trip to be stupifyingly stupid and reckless... no beyond reckless, he was absolutely determined to screw things up. He may be implusive but this was really too much of a stretch. Good story, but the premise that he would be that reckless was a little hard to manage and seemed fairly contrived and against the level of common sense and intelligence he has demonstrated to date in other situations.
Quote:
|
|
#18
04-30-2003, 08:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
WOW! what a good episode! Firstly, there's G'Kar as the alien captain, then Levar Burton directed. Mind you, my faith in ST Enterprise has been pretty solid anyway, but when you get an episode like this, it just about blows you away!
As to Tripp's decision, I can understand why he did what he did. However, there was a huge repercussion, one that I don't think he had anticipated and for which he was ultimately responsible. And that was what really made this episode so good: there was no reset button; the repercussion will be dealt with directly and Tripp will have to face his part in it. Wonder what happened with Malcom and the lady though?  Maybe they won't need Cogenitors any more? (LOL sorry...setting that reset button myself there, eh?  )
|
|
#19
04-30-2003, 08:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
That's what I liked, too.
Sure, Tripp shoul've known better than to do that. But... This brought some depth to his character. How many times have you found yourself either wanting to make a difference, and being frustrated by it, or actually jumping in, trying to help, and really screwing up? Come on! This is good writing. It humanized a fictional man. We felt his eagerness, his wariness, his shame, and his defiance. The fact that his initial actions were stupid makes this even better. Good heart, bad brain, as my granny would have said.
|
|
#20
04-30-2003, 08:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Was it my imagination, or did Phlox seem a little too eager to show Trip his collection of pictures?
|
|
#21
04-30-2003, 09:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Denobians (sp) seem pretty laid back-indeed, exuberant-about sex.
I agree with Trip. Looks like the cogenitor was abused to me. It would have been very interesting to have a black person play the part.
|
|
#25
05-01-2003, 12:15 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Where do you live, Aesiron?
|
|
#27
05-01-2003, 01:05 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
 Great episode, indeed. But if I was directing it, the final shot would have included a quick pan past Malcolm with a huge SEG on his face......Timmy
__________________
Thursday Night Movie Club - World's best and shortest movie reviews!
|
|
#28
05-01-2003, 01:12 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Anyone see Hoshi on Jeopardy? How'd she do? i didn't get home until 10:30 pm and have no clue what channel it plays on anyway here.
|
|
#29
05-01-2003, 01:15 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Well, dammit, Jim, I had a tape problem beyond my control and got TZ but no ENT, so I'll have to wait till Sunday night to see and tape the repeat.
|
|
#31
05-01-2003, 01:16 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
So, is Trip busted down to Scullery Maid Fourth Class, or what?
|
|
#33
05-01-2003, 01:24 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
i missed it too, but am acquiring it right now via mumble mumble mumble mumble do to good word of mouth here.
2% complete
|
|
#34
05-01-2003, 01:24 AM
|
|||
|
|||
 [Horta, via Spock, via Viva]: Pain.....pain.....sadness...cry for the tape....the lost episode....
|
|
#36
05-01-2003, 01:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I found this episode unoriginal, and utterly predictable except maybe for the moral about
SPOILER:
SPOILER:
SPOILER:
|
|
#38
05-01-2003, 04:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#39
05-01-2003, 05:35 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
 ha!
|
|
#40
05-01-2003, 07:12 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I have the Canadian version w/o commercials on tape.
|
|
#41
05-01-2003, 08:24 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I don't see how it's out of character for Tripp to be stupid. He acts the part in 9 out of 10 episodes it seems.
HEY TRIPP, PHLOX DOESN'T CARE IF YOU BED HIS WIFE ! IT'S BEEN BLATANTLY OBVIOUS SINCE 5 MINUTES INTO THE EPISODE HEY TRIPP, SHOUTING oops, shouting and talking slower doesn't make your stranded combatant alien understand english I mean, you could go on and on. The "big hearted doofus" is not somebody you want as your chief engineer is it ? After concurring with a comment from last week, that the show would have more balls if they didn't wrap up with a warm fuzzy ending ala Antaran gets healed and learns that Denobulens are ok, I was pleasantly surprised by the ending. To make it sweeter, Archer should've busted Tripp down in rank or better yet, thrown him in the brig. 2 nickpits. Malcolm damn near had to get raped by the blonde because of his very Tripp-like ineptitude with women. Is the future even more sexually repressed than now, or are the geeks who make it onboard just trained to be gutless ? T'pol has breasts that 'stack' up to Yeoman Rand's. We need to see more of her (and no mind rapes that give her vulcan uknowhat) (Yoshi fanboys back off !) I'm off to the decon chamber, I'm starting to think there's hope for this show.
|
|
#42
05-01-2003, 09:12 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I liked this episode pretty well... Far less panda than I was expecting, which turned out to be a GOOD thing, because the writing was strong enough that they didn't need any panda.
Did anyone notice a lot of interesting camerawork and lighting? They did some neat close-ups and tracking shots that made it look all.... cinematic, I guess. Cool, anyhow. And the yellow lighting was pretty. The whole time, I was thinking, "Oh, Trip, don't be so stupid. PLEASE stop being so stupid. YOU'RE SUCH A BIG MORON!" But he was so very earnest, so concerned and so eager to help, that I didn't think he was acting oddly. We all do things without thinking and then regret it - this was one of those times. Trip got so caught up in his Good Deed, that he failed to realize that it was a major screw-up. And indeed it was. Hooray for actions with ACTUAL REPERCUSSIONS! Never thought I'd see the day. It'll be interesting to see if Trip acts any differently in the future. I doubt it, but, hey, who knows. And, hey, what's all this acting that happened?! Archer delivering his tired old "Someday, there'll be a Prime Directive" speech on the vege of tears, Phlox getting all excited about his pictures, Malcolm leering at the alien chick's ass (turns out he's like that even WITHOUT being posessed by the wispy thing). Very impressive. You'd think they all took a class, or something. And observation re: predictability - I totally knew what the alien captain was calling about, at the end. But I didn't really see it coming until then, and was wondering how they were going to wrap everything up. It would have been a rather unsatisfying ending, otherwise, so I'd say they got out of it as neatly as possible; even throwing a little character development in for flavor. 1 more tiny point: Enterprise got something right that they screwed up once on Firefly- "Champing at the bit." Not chomping. Archer said it correctly at the begining of this episode, and it made me smile (it cause me pain when Zoe said it wrong on Firefly.) Righty-ho. That's enough out of me. Love, K* P.S.: I didn't like that they all picked up Trip's habit of using female pronouns for the Cogenitor. LIke it or not, she was an "it". It was weird to have it all feminized.
|
|
#44
05-01-2003, 10:37 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Am I the only one who agrees with Trip that regardless of their culture, it was wrong to enslave the Congenitors?
Compare the Captain reading Shakespeare and Sophocles to "it" learning to read. Consider the pungent aroma food the couple ate while the cogenitor addigned to them ate one meal a day and spend most of the time in a room by itself.
|
|
#45
05-01-2003, 10:46 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#46
05-01-2003, 11:30 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Actually, when Captain G'Kar called and sounded upset, I thought he was going to say that the Cogenitor was refusing to perform her/his cogenitation duties and so had to be taken out and shot.
|
|
#47
05-01-2003, 12:19 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Maybe that would have been even cooler, tracer... Me, I wouldn't have expected that.
I remembered s'more stuff: 1) Archer: (paraphrased) "If that's what you think I'd have done, then I haven't been setting a very good example as a captain!" No shit, freakmeat! It may have escaped your notice, but First Contact-wise, your record's pretty sucky. You are CONSTANTLY getting your ass in a mangle by being stupid, petty, and overemotional. You're bipolar on a level that would stagger the most jaded psychoanalyst - one week, you love everybody, the next, you're callously destroying everything in your path. I blamed PMS previously, but I'm second guessing that impression, because it's not even like there's some monthly cycle to your lunacy. You are a, plain and simple, an unpredictable batshit wingnut; unfit for command of a garbage scow, let along the Finest Ship in the Fleet. No wonder your crew's a little unsure of what you'd have done. Be glad Trip isn't dancing along the nacelle catwalks in a chicken suit, singing "I Feel Pretty!" and thinking "I'm sure THIS is what the Cap'n'd do!" Whew. Glad to have that off my chest. Oh, but you do have nice thighs. Which maybe makes up for the whole crazy-person-endangering-everybody's-lives thing. 2) The whole solar camping trip that Archer and Captain G'Kar took in the solarpod thingy was cute and all, but was kind of a big waste of time. I know it was just an excuse to have Archer off the ship, and to show that he got along great with G'Kar, but I felt like they could have done more with that than just showing us that G'Kar likes to read, and that Archer likes to surf. I'm not SUPER interested in these guys passtimes, so that whole subplot was kind of a wash. 3) I can't remember exactly when it was, but at some point that Trip was hanging out with the Cogenitor, doing something relatively mundane (and pointless, no doubt), the soundstrack got all crazy-suspenseful - to the point that I actually noticed it was making me feel nervous. This despite the fact that nothing wildly dramatic was happening, visually. So thumbs up to whomever came up with the musical score for this baby.
|
|
#48
05-01-2003, 12:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
It looks like the other thread is the not-so-serious one, while this is where the intense discussion is taking place, but tracer had some good comments there, so... I'll come here! I know, I know.
In the other thread, tracer says it would have been more interesting if the cogenitor had actually had diminished capacity, i.e. sort of recognized what Trip was trying to get it to do but couldn't really pull it off. Instead, with the "just as good as the others" thing, it becomes a slavery/dominance problem, which is a human issue, rather than a truly alien dilemma. I agree with this. The fact that the cogenitor had all the intelligence of the males and females of its species was totally predictable, and somewhat disappointing. I would have been much more impressed if Trip had handed over the pad, and the cogenitor had pressed the words in order: "The... river... flows... between..." or whatever. Eventually, it looks like the cogenitor gets it, and Trip changes to another writing sample. Without pressing words, the cogenitor says brightly, "The river flows between..." and Trip has to say, "No, these words say somethin' else," to the cogenitor's confusion. Unfortunately, the way they did it was just too bleedin' obvious. That being said, I find it difficult to complain when the ending of the episode is so dead-on right. This is what I've been asking for: mistakes, consequences, repercussions. Trip hasn't just killed somebody — he's rather badly screwed up relations between humanity and this new species. You just know this little escapade is going to be headline news back on the alien homeworld. "First contact! They're called humans! They meddled in our culture, killed a cogenitor, and robbed a couple of an unborn child! Next on v'Fox!" Trip made a huge mistake, and unlike astro, I don't see it as being any more stupid or reckless than trying to sneak into that automated repair station without approval or exploring the extradimensional corridor in the future ship without telling anyone what he was doing. Galloping into action with brain on idle is exactly what Trip does (and to a lesser extent Archer, which makes his "not setting a good example" speech kind of an eye-roller). It's just that this is the first time he actually has to pay for it, and it's a doozy of a payment. Even so, I'm not sure the episode is entirely successful. Aside from echoing tracer's complaint about the cogenitor's equal cognition, above, I thought the first two-thirds were rather obviously padded. The writers knew they had a good ending, something that helps enlarge the show's moral landscape and deepen the characters, but they didn't really have enough material to get there. Sure, they needed to have Archer and the alien captain develop a relationship in order to make the ending work, but all the 5-dimensional piloting and plasma-plume measurements threatened to turn into "Rock climbing, Joel." That needed more work, certainly. And while it was also fun to see Malcolm get some nooky (Skillet38's accurate observation about his cluelessness notwithstanding), it wasn't really very well integrated into the story. But all of that aside, I think the last five minutes are a big, big step in the right direction. More of this, please. P.S. The preview for next week's show made me very sad.
|
|
#49
05-01-2003, 01:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#50
05-01-2003, 01:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I'm just gonna sit back and wait for Cardassians, Bajorans and the Dominion to make their appearances.
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
