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  #1  
Old 10-11-2003, 05:22 PM
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Manny, Pedro, what the hell are you thinking?!?


Do either of you two asses realize the weight of this game? The remainder of your season rides on it.

Manny, that pitch was nowhere near you. Like McCarver and Buck said, you went up there looking for a reason. A tiny one was handed to you, and you leaped all over it. Too bad you can't leap after lazy fly balls with that sort of aggression.

Pedro, it takes absolutely NO machismo whatsoever to grab a 72 year old man by the head and toss him aside. That move was an embarassment to the Red Sox team, franchise, and Nation as a whole.

Both of you are awfully damn lucky to still be in the game. Especially after the benches were warned, you do not go into the next half inning looking to incite a riot. Both of your actions were totally classless. I am a Sox fan, but I really hope MLB takes a healthy deduction from your playoff checks.
  #2  
Old 10-11-2003, 05:27 PM
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For once, Clemens isn't the villian.

Crazy Zimmer did attack Pedro. What was he thinking? It's funny now...like Elmer Fudd coming at you.

Ramirez could have caused a riot with his idiotic hissy fit. He should have been thrown out the game.
  #3  
Old 10-11-2003, 05:32 PM
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Pedro is a headhunter in a class far beyond Clemens, who has the reputation. I did the calculation, and when Pedro faces the same # of batters as Roger, he'll have hit 213 vs. Roger's 141.

Ramirez is a pathetic crybaby, and SHOULD have been thrown out for trying to start a riot.

Zim probably should have been tossed too, he threw the first punch-like-thing. Pedro should be ashamed of himself for retaliating so violently against a fat old man.
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Old 10-11-2003, 05:54 PM
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Another Sox fan who thinks these two guys are punks who need a bitch-slap. That was just fucking embarrassing.
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:04 PM
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cite please? I haven't heard about this
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:07 PM
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:20 PM
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Don Zimmer staying in that game was DISGUSTING. To not toss him out is just...it's beyond words. You do NOT take a swing at another person on a baseball field and not get tossed.
  #8  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:25 PM
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This is about today's Yankees/Red Sox game. With first base open, Pedro Martinez hit Karim Garcia with a pitch, behind his head glancing off his shoulder. Garcia was (somewhat understandably) REALLY pissed off and there was a lot of yelling back and forth.

Don Zimmer, the Yankees bench coach who is 72 years old and the shape of a bowling ball was particularly vocal. Pedro was also seen pointing to his ear and yelling, implying possibly that he would hit someone else in the head.

Next inning, Roger Clemens throws a pitch to Manny Ramirez that is high and slightly inside, stress slightly. It WAS at head height, but was still pretty much over the plate. Ramirez throws a fit yelling and screaming, and the benches clear. Zimmer goes up to Pedro and shoves at him, Pedro grabs him by the head and throws him to the ground.

Now WTF just happened in the bullpen???
  #9  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:26 PM
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As my roommate bristlesage said, "Both Martinez and Clemens should be glad they don't play in the National League."

I wasn't really paying close attention, but I saw the replay of Martinez taking down Zimmer, and was pretty horrified. I don't know exactly what Zimmer did, cause I didn't see it, but I can tell from this thread that he threw a punch. Now, in no way is that okay, but come on, the guy is like, old. He's Jack McKeon Old. You don't knock down an old guy!
  #10  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:31 PM
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Papa Tiger's reaction? "A typical baseball 'brawl' -- most of it was probably spent talking about whre they're going to be playing golf post-season."
  #11  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:33 PM
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Just found out on the postgame show that Zimmer was hit in the head in the minor leagues (in the '50s) and almost died, spent like 2 weeks unconscious and has a plate in his head now. Guess he's a bit sensitive to the subject.
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:34 PM
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Zimmer threw a punch at Pedro, he deserved what he got.

Pedro just shoved him, that is not at all horrific.

He's lucky he didn't get punched.
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:34 PM
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There definately should have been some people tossed after that, Zimmer being the first. It would be just plain age-ist to say that Martinez didn't have the right to deck the old coot. Zimmer threw the first pun....well, whateveritwas, and deserved to get decked. Ramirez should have been ejected for being a fuckwit, and over-reacting to a high pitch.
  #14  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flymaster
Don Zimmer staying in that game was DISGUSTING. To not toss him out is just...it's beyond words. You do NOT take a swing at another person on a baseball field and not get tossed.
Hey Flymaster,

Zimmer, as a player, was hit in the head in 1953 and was unconscious for 2 weeks. To this day he has a metal plate in his head.

Throwing at players' heads is inexusable. When the game isn't going his way, this is what Pedro does. It is what Clemens used to do.

Justice served, Red Sox lose.

Pedro and Ramirez proved themselves to be punks. I've lost all respect for those two losers.

The Red Sox deserve any "curse" with these two jackasses on their roster.

BTW, professional baseball players are paid millions for their skills. Ramirez and Ortiz and several other Red Sox players need to lose the beer bellies. Babe Ruth sloppiness isn't cool anymore.
  #15  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by whiteboy
Pedro just shoved him, that is not at all horrific.
He grabbed Zimmer by the head, one hand on each ear, throwing him to the ground. That is anything but 'just' a shove.
  #16  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:41 PM
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And I agree that Zim should have been tossed.

But Ramirez should have been tossed too. Seriously, his actions were so irresponsible that someone could have been seriously hurt. Watching Clemens sit his rather large ass down was sweet.
  #17  
Old 10-11-2003, 06:46 PM
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Pedro can throw a ball at 100 mph; he could have gotten out of the way of a lumbering old man. Zimmer would have then fallen to the ground from his own momentum and Pedro wouldn't look like the punk he is.
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Old 10-11-2003, 06:46 PM
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OK, the Sox manager just said on FOX that he watched the tape and Martinez was not justified.

And, part of what traspired was that when the next play was made after Garcia was hit, he apparently slid with a purpose into the man covering second. According to the radio crew, as a result of that there were a lot people standing at the bullpen edges yelling trash, and Pedro's gesticulating and shouting was aimed at Jorge Posada, who was giving back as good.
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Old 10-11-2003, 07:33 PM
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Just heard on ESPNews that Zimmer was taken to the hospital. Let's hope he recovers. Yes, Zim was out of line but Martinez could easily have avoided an old man's charge. To throw down a person of that age for any reason is inexcusable. Martinez' baiting of the Yankee bench and of Posada in particular was a pathetic display of punkmanship. Ramierez is a punk too.
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Old 10-11-2003, 07:45 PM
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The Martinez-Zimmer exchange is a difficult one to arbitrate but would the league take some action on Martinez gesticulating to the NY dugout and telling them that he would be aiming for their heads?

I am not familiar with how strict MLB is w.r.t such incidents.
  #21  
Old 10-11-2003, 07:58 PM
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The whole night was embarassing.

I guess the bullpen thing was a "fan" jumping into the Yankee bullpen. I watched it silently, couldn't hear any commentators, but I was left with the impression that the jumper got himself mugged by not only the bullpen, but stadium security.

I agree, Clemens did nothing wrong. I don't think he even got involved in anything more that shouting "Fuck you" to Ramirez. On a mild rant note, why was he allowed to take warm-up pitches during the umpire conference?

As much as I hate to say it, I hope Grady Little benches Ramirez tomorrow as part of what I hope is much larger punishment for today's actions. I don't think his half-assing it to first or in the outfield will be missed much. As far as Pedro, he should be fined heavily by the team, and that money donated to a charity of Zim's choosing. MLB should fine Manny and Pedro heavily, and give Zim a token fine. Even if he did thow a punch, what possibly could have been behind it, with a plate in his head, and two knee replacements? What Pedro did was unwarranted and inexcusable.

( I saw Pedro's gesture. I thought nothing of it. It seemed to be a "think" or "use your head" kind of gesture, as in "Why would I throw at him to load the bases" sort of excuse...)

That being said, I stand by my prediction of Sox in Six. But I won't be real proud of it....
  #22  
Old 10-11-2003, 08:06 PM
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IMHO, they all should have been thrown out. But Pedro should have been thrown out first (in the top of the fourth), and that would have saved a great deal of grief in the bottom half of the inning.

It's awfully bad, in the first place, to throw behind a batter. Why? Because the natural reaction of a batter, when thrown at, is to back up to get out of the way. Pitcher throws behind batter, batter backs up into the throw. Nasty. IMHO, if a pitcher throws behind a batter, his ass should be out of the game. MLB isn't there yet, but hopefully it will be, one of these days.

But still, the moment Pedro started gesticulating to suggest he might throw at someone else, making it clear to all the world that (a) he'd thrown behind Garcia intentionally, and (b) he wasn't the least bit sorry about it (not to mention (c) he might do it again next inning), he should have been tossed.

Zim should have been tossed for sheer stupidity, if nothing else. Plate in his head, or no plate in his head, the Gerbil should have had the sense to (a) leave the bench-clearing brawl to men a few decades younger than himself, and (b) if he had to be there, to just amble around and get in the way of anyone actually trying to fight, rather than trying to start one himself. He'd deserve honorary mention for a Darwin for this, if his reproducing days weren't long past.

And Pedro should have been tossed again, for handling Zim a lot more roughly than necessary. Sheesh, all he had to do was block Zim's punches with his nonpitching hand. Throwing him to the ground was outrageous and uncalled for.

I'm rooting for the Red Sox, and against the Yankees. But I think Pedro should be suspended for the remainder of the postseason.
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:14 PM
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Pedro is just a jerk (and I have no doubt that he has gone headhunting). Clemens is a smart jerk. He has very good control. Yes, balls do get away from pitchers, but do you really think that pitch was an accident? He deliberately threw high and tight; enough to guarantee a reaction, not enough that they can reasonably toss him, and almost certain to get into the Red Sox heads.

As for Don Zimmer, I certainly hope that he's OK, but you can't attack someone (especially a hothead like Martinez) in the heat of a bench clearing incident and expect them to simply and calmly step out of the way, even if you are 72 years old.
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by wakimika
Hey Flymaster,

Zimmer, as a player, was hit in the head in 1953 and was unconscious for 2 weeks. To this day he has a metal plate in his head.
Then Don Zimmer should not be starting fights with 30 year old men who can kick his ass. If Zimmer had been anybody BUT a 70 year old fat insane man, he would have had the everloving SHIT beat out of him, quite rightfully, by the Sox bench. Pedro tossed him out of his way, so as not to get punched. That's all.

Now, as for Pedro: If he threw at Garcia, it was a stupid move. However, let's examine the facts: There were 2 runners on base. It is the ALCS. He had no reason to throw at Garcia. Pedro has almost never thrown at the head in the past (Pedro hits lots of guys intentionally, but he usually goes for the ass or back) And he hadn't thrown a fastball for the previous 2 innings, likely because he didn't feel he could control it.

So he throws a fastball to Garcia, and it gets away, and hits him. Garcia overreacts. Everyone overreacts. Pedro looks at Posada and points out, quite rightfully, that "If I was going to hit someone in the head, I'd hit them in the fucking head!"

The next inning, Roger throws high (not tight), Manny overreacts like the asshole that he is, the shit hits the fan, and Zimmer decides to throw a punch at a player (the only punch thrown in the altercation, that I could see), gets lightly (as lightly as you can toss a 300 pound guy with bad knees at a full sprint, anyway) tossed aside, and the game continues.

To claim that Zimmer is not a piece of shit for throwing a punch when nobody else had is just ridiculous. He knows better.
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:49 PM
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That is crap, Flymaster.

Clemens pitch was completely routine.

The responsiblity for that mess lies with Pedro, Ramirez and later Zimmer.
  #26  
Old 10-11-2003, 08:51 PM
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I'm moving from Yankees in 7 to Yankees and 5.

I highly doubt they will lose another game to these rank amateurs.
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:54 PM
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This is just to show that you just can't fuck with Clemens with mind games. Just hit what the guy pitches. The fish and the care bears, take note.

Also, Pedro can take care of himself, too. He didn't uranage Zimmer, or some nonsense like that; he just gently tossed him aside in a good self-defense move. The game needs more pitchers like that.

The umps ruled no harm, no foul in that BBQ. They made the right call.

Ramirez bitching over a pitch eye high over the plate: That was just embarassing for all batters.

I am more convinced than ever, esecially from the NLCS, that throwing hard inside, and throwing a Randy Johnson special sometimes, is a necessity in today's game. The umpires should be giving out the Field of Dreams warning, "You better watch out or he's gonna hit your head." Pitchers need to take back the game anyway they can, or they might as well throw batting practice pitches.
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:01 PM
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Clemens' pitch in question was a high fastball, around throat high. If the strike zone extended that high, it would have been a strike. It was in not a brushback, a head hunt, or anything more than an attempt to get Manny to chase a bad pitch for strike three. It was over the plate, but high.

And then when things finally settled down, 18 minutes(?) later, Ramirez takes a pathetic wave at a ball that was 6" outside, and slinked back to the bench.
  #29  
Old 10-11-2003, 09:13 PM
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Latest news on Fox tele -- the fellow in the bullpen was allegedly a Red Sox groundskeeper who cheered a Boston play, and 2 Yankees allegedly jumped him -- the newscaster said the guy has cleat marks on his arms and back...
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by wakimika
That is crap, Flymaster.

Clemens pitch was completely routine.

The responsiblity for that mess lies with Pedro, Ramirez and later Zimmer.
Umm, yeah. That's what I said..

"The next inning, Roger throws high (not tight), Manny overreacts like the asshole that he is, "

Roger is (as much as it pains me to say this) blameless, Pedro, IMHO, didn't do a WHOLE lot (I don't think he was trying to hit Garcia), Manny was an asshole who overreacted, and Zimmer was just a fucking punk.
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:17 PM
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The latest on the bullpen fiasco:

Two Yankees to be charged with assault
  #32  
Old 10-11-2003, 09:17 PM
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cite please? I haven't heard about this
I think it's in here, somewhere.
  #33  
Old 10-11-2003, 09:17 PM
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Originally posted by Flymaster
Then Don Zimmer should not be starting fights with 30 year old men who can kick his ass.
Remember your audience here, Flymaster. You're talking to a large number of people who talk here on the boards (under a protective shield of anonymity) in ways that they would never, ever, ever dream of doing in public.

That being said, Zimmer got off lucky. Pedro could have crushed his skull in a heartbeat. Then again, he probably didn't want to hurt his hands on that plate.
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:56 PM
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Pedro should donate to a charity of Zimmer's choosing?

WHAT THE FUCK?

He threw a punch at Pedro! Pedro should pay for defending himself? Just because Zimmer is old?

That's fucking stupid.
  #35  
Old 10-11-2003, 10:08 PM
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Pedro was just defending himself from Zimmer. The old fuck should have stayed in the dugout.


I thought it was pretty funny when Pedro was pointing at his ear to inicate that he would put one in somebody's earflap and it's not like the Rocket hasn't declared his own intentions to hit people before. didn't he come out before a game against the giants a couple of years ago and tell the press he was going to hit Bonds?

I wish more people would throw at the Yankees. I hate the Yankees.
  #36  
Old 10-11-2003, 10:16 PM
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With two on and no out in a one run game in the ALCS, there is just flat out no fucking way that even a known plunker like Martinez was throwing at anybody. Garcia is a dumb shit.

Clemens pitch was just fine. Ramirez is a dumb shit.

Zimmer has been around long enough to know what happens if one rushes up throwing punches when the benches are clearing. But the gerbil has always been a dumb shit.

The groundskeeper and the Yankees bullpen are dumb shits as well.

*sigh* Am I going to have to root for the NL in the Series? I hope not; I would feel that I was a dumb shit, too.
  #37  
Old 10-11-2003, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by This Year's Model
With two on and no out in a one run game in the ALCS, there is just flat out no fucking way that even a known plunker like Martinez was throwing at anybody. Garcia is a dumb shit.

Clemens pitch was just fine. Ramirez is a dumb shit.

Zimmer has been around long enough to know what happens if one rushes up throwing punches when the benches are clearing. But the gerbil has always been a dumb shit.

The groundskeeper and the Yankees bullpen are dumb shits as well.

*sigh* Am I going to have to root for the NL in the Series? I hope not; I would feel that I was a dumb shit, too.
My feelings exactly...except that I have to be a Sox fan until they're out of the playoffs.
  #38  
Old 10-11-2003, 10:47 PM
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Re: Manny, Pedro, what the hell are you thinking?!?


Quote:
Originally posted by Casey1505
Do either of you two asses realize the weight of this game? The remainder of your season rides on it.

Manny, that pitch was nowhere near you. Like McCarver and Buck said, you went up there looking for a reason. A tiny one was handed to you, and you leaped all over it. Too bad you can't leap after lazy fly balls with that sort of aggression.

Pedro, it takes absolutely NO machismo whatsoever to grab a 72 year old man by the head and toss him aside. That move was an embarassment to the Red Sox team, franchise, and Nation as a whole.

Both of you are awfully damn lucky to still be in the game. Especially after the benches were warned, you do not go into the next half inning looking to incite a riot. Both of your actions were totally classless. I am a Sox fan, but I really hope MLB takes a healthy deduction from your playoff checks.
I saw that manager fight. That was just totally rediculous.

and btw, GO YANKEES!!!!
  #39  
Old 10-11-2003, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Flymaster

Now, as for Pedro: If he threw at Garcia, it was a stupid move. However, let's examine the facts: There were 2 runners on base. It is the ALCS. He had no reason to throw at Garcia. Pedro has almost never thrown at the head in the past (Pedro hits lots of guys intentionally, but he usually goes for the ass or back) And he hadn't thrown a fastball for the previous 2 innings, likely because he didn't feel he could control it.

So he throws a fastball to Garcia, and it gets away, and hits him. Garcia overreacts. Everyone overreacts. Pedro looks at Posada and points out, quite rightfully, that "If I was going to hit someone in the head, I'd hit them in the fucking head!"
I don't know which stands out more here; your rationalizations or your lack of baseball knowledge.

The situation was runners on second and third with no outs and a left-hander coming up to bat, followed by a right-hander . Considering that the left-hander (Garcia) already had a hard hit and an RBI in the game and the right-hander (Soriano) has a lifetime BA of .129 against Martinez, it's sound baseball reasoning to put Garica on base and hope to either get the force at home or induce a double play (which is what happened).

You could put the man on first with an intentional walk or by pitching around him. Or if you are Pedro Martinez and having a fit of pique because you just coughed up the lead that your team got for you in the first inning, you can just drill the batter.

Pedro's a pitcher noted for his control (although he hits quite few guys). He wasn't able to pinpoint his pitches as well as usual last night, but there's a big difference between hanging curveballs or missing spots and a right-handed pitcher losing control of a heater to the extent that it ends up BEHIND THE HEAD of a left-handed batter. Up and in on the hands or mid-section is one thing, behind the head is, at best, an attempt to make a batter hit the dirt.

Overreacting is charging the mound and pummeling the pitcher after he plonks you in the calf or on the elbow. Garcia had every right to be angry. If he had, instead of ducking down and scrunching over, tried to stand erect and back away ( a common reaction to a high inside pitch), the ball would would have hit him right in the "fucking head".
  #40  
Old 10-12-2003, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bmoak
The situation was runners on second and third with no outs and a left-hander coming up to bat, followed by a right-hander . Considering that the left-hander (Garcia) already had a hard hit and an RBI in the game and the right-hander (Soriano) has a lifetime BA of .129 against Martinez, it's sound baseball reasoning to put Garica on base and hope to either get the force at home or induce a double play (which is what happened).

You don't think that Pedro was afraid of Karim Garcia, do ya?

I'm tired of these guys whining about being hit. It's a part of the game. Pitchers have to come inside. That means they have to drive hitters off the plate and sometimes that means hitting them.

Granted, I don't think they should throw at anyones head. I, personally, do not think Clemens meant to hit Piazza in the head. (Has Pedro ever hit anyone in the noggin?) But very few successful pitchers who throw hard can get through season without hitting some guys. Did the guys always get mad when they got hit? Did they whine when Drysdale and Gibson hit them?
  #41  
Old 10-12-2003, 07:55 AM
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Yankee fan here.

What the hell was Zimmer thinking? I really can't fault Pedro for defending himself. All things considered I think he would have rather not touched Zimmer under any circumstances.

Zimmer should have been ejected IMHO.

Thank Og Clemens kept his cool for once in his life.
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Old 10-12-2003, 07:55 AM
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As Garcia said after the game, he wouldn't have had a problem if he had been hit in the thigh, but when you go for the head you're messing with someone's career and their life. No excuse for going after Garcia's head, no excuse for inciting the Yankee dugout, no excuse for throwing an old man to the ground. This whole ugly incident was Martinez' and Ramierez' fault and the Yankees are the innocent injured party.
  #43  
Old 10-12-2003, 08:11 AM
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Oh, fuck you Yankees fans. Yeah, Pedro shouldn't have thrown at the guy, but everything after that was just tit-for-tat. Garcia slid into Todd Walker about 5 seconds after the double-play ball was gone, and about five feet past the bag. That's when Pedro started motioning towards the dugout.

As for Manny, that pitch wasn't in, but....he probably didn't know that. It's a fucking 90 mph fastball. He sees it coming head-high and a little inside--and knows Clemens is the type to throw at guys--so he does the smart thing and ducks. So, while we all can see that it doesn't end inside enough to be a threat, he's looking at the ground when the pitch arrives and thinks he's been thrown at.

As for Zimmer, I laughed my ass off when Pedro threw that asshole to the ground. You don't get to take a swing at the starting pitcher for the other team and expect to come out ok, no matter how old or fat you are. When the Yankees stop sliding into our 2nd baseman, talking trash even at the plate, and throwing punches at Pedro, then we'll talk about them being innocent.

(and as a Sox fan, I'm sad Pedro didn't hit that guy in the 2nd. Apparently that was the spark he needed to stop throwing 85 mph breaking balls and start blowing by the Yankees with 95 mph fastballs)
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:25 AM
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Maybe Zimmer had it coming but those that say Pedro is macho tough are full of shit. Do you think he would have reacted the same way if it had been Giambi coming after him? He would have been backpedaling as fast as he could. He can be a bully on the mound but he's a wimp off of it.

Oh and fuck you too, Myrr21!!
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Old 10-12-2003, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by This Year's Model
With two on and no out in a one run game in the ALCS, there is just flat out no fucking way that even a known plunker like Martinez was throwing at anybody. Garcia is a dumb shit.
He was absolutely throwing at him. Throws at his head, hopes he bails. Message sent, just another ball. And if it hits him, hey, first base is open and he's a left-handed hitter anyway.

From watching about 35 years of baseball, I have concluded that gutless punks who throw at an opponent's head are not hoping to actually put one in the guy's ear. They're just sending a message, and if it happens to actually hit him, hey, no big deal. Not like Pedro's batting or anything, no real repercussions.

And Pedro did not need to manhandle a 72-year-old guy like that.
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:25 AM
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I am a Sox fan and I agree that Pedro was throwing at Garcia. That being said, were I a Yankees fan, I wouldn't get too indignant just yet. Clemens was the instigator of the worst intentional beaning in the playoffs of the last twenty years when he threw at Piazza. We can debate Pedro's intentions, but he didn't hit Garcia in the head.

Zimmer was out of line, but Pedro's reaction was ridiculous. I really expected them both to be tossed. Tonight's game should be interesting. If either team gets a big lead I would expect things to get completely out of hand.
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:44 AM
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C'mon. Even pitchers with exceptional control throw wild sometimes. Can anyone show me pitcher with 100 innings and NO wild pitches and hit batsman? Did you see the pitcher for the Marlins the other day? The guy who's pitch missed by a good 25 feet?!?

Is unreasonable to assume that the pitch got away from by a foot?

BTW, I am not a Sox fan.

Also, Pedro has hit guys in the National League, too. And he's been hit a couple of times. Do we really think he'd be more restrained if was pitching in the NL? Kevin Brown still throws inside and hits guys after spending an equal amount of time in both leagues. These guys HAVE to pitch inside to win. Which means they can't be afraid to hit guys.
  #48  
Old 10-12-2003, 09:47 AM
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An all around disgusting display.

Zim, my man, you got off easy. Seriously, what where you thinking? You're damn lucky you have that plate in your head or being bounced on the ground like that could have been a lot worse.

Pedro. Pedro, Pedro, Pedro. What should you have done when faced with a charging 300 lb septigenarian? Although I think that the above referenced head-bouncing was kind of harsh, I can't say that I fault you.

Clemens is an absolute jerk. But he did nothing in this round of baseball ugliness to warrent some of the vitrol he's getting in this thread. Give him time, Yankee-haters. I'm sure he'll show his ass sooner or later.

Oh, and Myrr21, I understand. It's hard living and watching baseball when the greatest team ever isn't your team. When, in fact, your team has been under the shadow of the greatest team ever for almost a hundred years. I understand the hurt. I understand the pain. Still. . . Fuck you back. Fuck your crybaby ass all up and down Fenway Park. Maybe if Pedro had thrown at the heads of every pitcher he faced from the beginning of his career he'd not have the misfortune of playing for the Godforsaken Red Sox.
  #49  
Old 10-12-2003, 09:49 AM
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And by ever pitcher Pedro faced, I mean every batter.
  #50  
Old 10-12-2003, 09:56 AM
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OK, I'm an Orioles fan, and I dislike the Red Sox and the Yankees with equal vigor. I stand by my post, which boils down to a belief that everyone involved was at fault in one way or another. Well, except for Clemens, amazingly enough.

And even if I grant that Martinez was throwing at Garcia, which I don't, he was not head-hunting. Garcia was bent at a 90 degree angle when the ball skipped off his shoulder. Even if he had stepped back, he would have been hit in the ribs; the pitch was not that high. If he had bent straight down, instead of twisting his back, it would have missed him completely.

I find it delightful how people who have other interpretations insist that nobody knows anything about baseball but them. I assume that in real life they must be using their knowledge and skills as managers of major league baseball teams.
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