What makes animals ride-able?

[jhmcmullen]

While spitballing fantasy world creation with a friend who's writing a novel, I was asked whether or not a character could ride an antelope.

Yes. No. Maybe. A small enough character, a big enough antelope, I guessed.

So I turn to you, Teeming Millions.

In the general case, what makes an animal capable of being ridden? Is it simply a question of size? How much is it mechanics? A tiger may weigh as much as a donkey (or more) but the donkey looks sturdier to me (discounting the part where the tiger bites you; donkeys can bite too).

(We'll leave the domestication issue aside; I searched the board and found lengthy discussion on that, so I'm not touching it.)

Part of the reason I ask is because I recently finished John Keegan's history of warfare, in which he mentions that old drawings show Assyrian warriers astride the rear hips of the horse because (drum roll) that's how they rode. The horse wasn't strong enough at that point to support human weight between shoulders and hips.

How strong is strong enough? How big is big enough? What animal body types work or would work for riding?

Thanks.

John

[miggitymike]

When I was little I used to wonder about this same thing, more specifically why no one rode cows. I mean they look almost like horses, right? After I tried to get on one I found out.

[lissener]

Mostly it's a question of trainability. Horse's are herd animals and used to a hierarchy, like dogs and dog packs. So they're "hardwired" to obey a leader. Zebras, for example, prove largely too attitudinal to train like a horse.

[Mops]

Other criteria would be:

- herbivorous (your steed should better not see you as its packed lunch)
- herd/pack animal as opposed to loner (to get along with humans)
- not strongly territorial (you want to go places on the animal)
- no horns or other strong defences - being optimized for running away from predators obviously makes for a better riding animal. It also favours the rider when there is a difference of opinion...

[kunilou]

Originally posted by miggitymike
...why no one rode cows.

You may remember the fine documentary of the old West, Blazing Saddles, in which Mongo rode a steer into town.

[Khadaji]

When I was young I was told that Zebra's were not ridable because their backs weren't strong enough to carry a human. Is this true? They seem as big and strong as horses. Could you selectively breed them so that they could carry humans?

[labdude]

Long story short....Zebra's are not ridable because they are mean and they bite. See jared diamonds 'guns, germs, and steel'

[The Griffin]

I like a nice ass.

[yabob]

You may find this of interest:

http://www.animalag.msu.edu/press/ab...ffy_063000.htm

I also know from growing up around dairy farms that dairy cows will tolerate being ridden at least a little bit, if you accept a kid sitting on them while they wander into the barn to be milked as "riding". The kid will probably get off when yelled at by the farmer, who's likely to be more disturbed about it than the cow.

[Gulo gulo]

I have a postcard that has a picture of a man riding a Hereford bull. According to the write-up, in 1964 he rode this bull from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico to promote beef.

I wouldn't encourage trying this at home.

[Xema]

Originally posted by Gulo gulo
he rode this bull from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico to promote beef.

???

We're supposed to want to eat something capable of long-distance transport?

[Askance]

Originally posted by Xema
We're supposed to want to eat something capable of long-distance transport?

Why not? I hear Jumbo is quite tasty.

[Askance]

Originally posted by Xema
We're supposed to want to eat something capable of long-distance transport?

Why not? I hear Jumbo is quite tasty.

[Askance]

... and two even more so. Dang!

[sailor]

Bulls can be ridden and taught to jump like horses. Well, maybe not as high.

[radar ralf]

I have several vintage photographs of people riding moose and caribou in Alaska. There was even a plan in the earl 1900s to turn moose into draft animals. Dunno why these plans failed.

[mmmiiikkkeee]

I've seen people ride ostriches (full-grown ones) - there was some old disney-type movie with a guy doing this; and no the technology wasn't around at the time to fake it. Don't think you could ride one from Canada to Mexico though...

[Blake]

Cattle of various kinds are and have been ridden for millennia. Water buffalo are still a common riding animal throughout SE Asia and India. Cattle have long been ridden in Northern India at least, while Yaks occasionally in serve as transport in the Himalayan regions. I guess that the reasons cattle weren't ridden elsewhere was a lack of need. Most places had horses avaialble for the nobility and donkeys for the peasantry. AFAIK donkeys never made it into much of Eastern Asia.

I don't know if anyone has ever tried, but I can't see any reason why a normal sized man couldn't ride one of the larger antelope such as a wildebeeste.

[Titan2]

A yearly tradition at Gulfstream on Fla.derby day was animal races.I've personally seen elephants,camels,and ostriches "race" that 1/6th mile run.In accounts I've read ostriches seem to have a mean streak in them,so I don't know why that would preclude a gang/pride/herd/passel of zebras being trained for it.

Don't recall the other jockey's uniforms,but the camel jockies were dressed like,well, camel jockies

[smiling bandit]

I suspect that humans could breed ridability into anything from deer to zebra. It would take longer than horses, true, but given time we could breed almost any damned thing. But of course, in many places, they may simply have never had the time, energy, and inspiration to think there was any point.

[jjimm]

Well for me, a nice perfume, some lipstick and just a dash of rouge...

What?

[Bear_Nenno]

Originally posted by lissener
Mostly it's a question of trainability. Horse's are herd animals and used to a hierarchy, like dogs and dog packs. So they're "hardwired" to obey a leader. Zebras, for example, prove largely too attitudinal to train like a horse.

Zebras dont live and travel in herds?

[edwino]

I've ridden an ostrich. They are really stupid. When I got on it, they put a bag over its head to confuse it (no shit). You steer basically by grabbing them by the neck and pointing their head in the direction you want to go. I've even seen people in South Africa have ostrich races. Their brain is the size of a lemon so I'm unclear if they actually understand what is going on. I'm not sure how long of a ride would be feasible on an ostrich, because, as others have mentioned, they do have a bit of an ornery streak in them.

I would think at least some level of domestication is necessary for riding. This neatly explains why cattle, horses, and donkeys can be ridden but wildebeest and zebras cannot. Ostriches are probably an exception, because they are not wholly domesticated but they are really stupid.

[liirogue]

I have nothing to add except this thread is absolutely hilarious!

[Gulo gulo]

I plan on having yaks at some point and now I'm going to have to try and ride them! (I had just planned on using them for packing.)

Anyways, have some Camel races!

I was told once that there were a people somewhere in Russia that used to ride moose. It was word of mouth and I've never seen anything in writing about them. No idea how far back in history this is either, but I'd love to know more. (I've seen a Scythian headress for a horse that had antlers, so maybe that's where the story came from?)

I've seen people ride reindeer but I always feel sorry for the deer since they're so small!

[jjimm]

Originally posted by Blake
Cattle of various kinds are and have been ridden for millennia. Water buffalo are still a common riding animal throughout SE Asia and India.

I took a great photo in the Mekong Delta of a guy standing on the back of his water buffalo as it walked down the bed of a river. Looked like he was surfing it. Clearly Lieutenant Colonel Kilgore was wrong...

[Patty O'Furniture]

Who was the first to decide that horses need to be saddled to make them more rideable? What is it that horses don't like about being bare-backed?

[OxyMoron]

I thought the saddle wasn't so much for the convenience of the horse as for the rider.

[Colibri]

Here's a picture of a Siberian herder riding a reindeer. Note that he is riding on the shoulders, possibly because the back may be weaker than that of a horse.

I think ride-ability is largely a matter of size and trainability. If an animal can be trained, and is large enough to bear a human's weight, then usually it can be ridden. Some hoofed animals, however, may have relatively weak legs for their size. I have read that llamas are not ride-able, but they're pretty small. And even if a large carnivore could be trained, they are probably not built well for carrying much weight on their backs over long distances. (I have seen circus acts in which monkeys rode dogs, however.)

The largest antelope, such as eland and nilgai are probably ride-able if they could be trained. Mid-sized antelope might be ride-able for smaller humans.

[Wyatt]

I know my neighbor's kid used to ride their Saint Bernard ...

just sayin'...

[SSittser]

At a Renaissance festival we regularly visit, there's a "pony ride" that includes, along with the ponies, a zonkey (half zebra, half donkey), an alpacca, and another non-pony or two. My daughter particularly likes riding the zonkey.

[Corner Case]

Originally posted by radar ralf
I have several vintage photographs of people riding moose and caribou in Alaska. There was even a plan in the earl 1900s to turn moose into draft animals. Dunno why these plans failed.

I hate drinking moose. It has a good head but the antlers keep getting stuck in my moustache. But now, for something you'll really like, give me a Flying Squirrel...

[Hoopy Frood]

Originally posted by Corner Case
I hate drinking moose. It has a good head but the antlers keep getting stuck in my moustache. But now, for something you'll really like, give me a Flying Squirrel...

You could always try drinking Moosehead.

http://www.moosehead.com/

[Sunspace]

And people think the Great Canadian Moose Cavalry is a myth...!

[kaylasdad99]

Originally posted by Gulo gulo
I've seen people ride reindeer but I always feel sorry for the deer since they're so small!

Well, of course. It's common knowledge that reindeer are draught animals.

[Waenara]

Originally posted by OxyMoron
I thought the saddle wasn't so much for the convenience of the horse as for the rider.

This site gives a brief history of the saddle.

A tribe called the Sarmatians who lived by the Black Sea are credited with having invented the first saddle in 365 AD, as well as the metal stirrup and spurs. The Sarmatians were well known for their horsemanship and use of horses in battle.

<snip>

It appears that people had ridden horses for around 1,500 years before they had devised a method for achieving greater stability in the saddle. An early form of the stirrup has been traced to India in the second century BCE. It consisted of a simple loop through which the rider placed his big toe. This was of limited value for stabilizing a rider and of no real value whatsoever as an aid in mounting a horse. Some scholars believe that the first true stirrups were devised in Central Asia during the first century BCE by a nomadic group known as the Sarmatians. This innovation soon spread to other Central Asian peoples, who would have quickly noted that bracing one's feet in a set of stirrups made it much easier to shoot a bow from the saddle.

Invaders from Central Asia, such as the Huns, brought the stirrup to Europe, where it seems to have been valued as much for aiding in mounting as for stabilizing a rider in the saddle. In fact, the words for stirrup in Old High German, Old Saxon, and Old English are all derived from words for climbing. When used with the contoured saddle, stirrups afforded a mounted warrior considerable stability, thereby allowing him to deal powerful blows with a sword, axe, mace, or lance.

[TheLoadedDog]

This thread reminds me of the King of Id with his "steed".

[Fish]

Rather than come up with another anecdote about this or that animal which has been ridden, I'd like to submit a hypothesis.

We don't ride cats because cats have flexible spines, yes? Is there some anatomical difference which makes equine-type animals more ride-able (as per the OP) than, say, canine or feline or ursine?

FISH

[kaylasdad99]

I thought we don't ride cats because we would squash them as soon as we sat down on them.

[LifeFucU]

i thought the side with teeth was a proper deterrent aswell..

[Mr. Mook]

I thought people didn't ride cats because they were pussies.

[grimpixie]

There once was a lady from Riga
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger
They returned from the ride
With the lady inside,
And a smile on the face of the tiger.

Carry on...

Grim

[naita]

Originally posted by grimpixie
Carry on...

Grim

I thought it was a lady from Niger...

[grimpixie]

Originally posted by naita
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by grimpixie

There once was a lady from Riga
Who smiled as she rode on a tiger
They returned from the ride
With the lady inside,
And a smile on the face of the tiger.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought it was a lady from Niger...

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Grim