Culture Shock: Men play football better than women...

[RedFury]

...and in a site dedicated to "fighting ignorance" mod-deluxe, RickJay -- who, by the way, had plenty of shit to say about the Canada/US footie match -- decides that I am "thread-shitting" because I disagreed with AD's assessment of Solo's save as "probably the best he is seen in years" with no qualification as to what he has has seen in said time. After reading his post, I merely congratulated the US on their victory and mentioned that he likely wasn't aware of the great stops in the men's game -- which, without an ounce of misogyny, anyone can see is far superior to the woman's game. Well then, first Lamar Mundane confirms it wasn't a "best ever save" but rather mundane, and right after that a certain Knorf butts in to write one of the most ignorant posts I've read here yet -- and after a decade, that's saying something.

I then proceed to gently mock their ignorance of football in general and link to two of the best keepers of the world in action.

Response?

...The USA, Canada, Japan, and to a lesser extent France and Brazil all showed great skill in the Olympic tournament, and as others have mentioned they play a more manly game than the dancers, divers, and preeners of the men's game. If today's game were played exactly the same way but the teams were Barca and Real instead, they'd have run out of stretchers in the first half.

-- underline mine.

Really? Want to talk "sexism"? "Ignorance"? Or how about both at the same time? Mayhaps chalk it up to plain butthurt hyperbole?

Right. To bed I must, and next morning I wake to this sage "yellow card" by RickJay, likely the most sagacious and knowledgeable of all football mods here.

Because, of course, I was "threadshitting" while asking someone what was so unusual about the save -- and being told by others that it wasn't -- other than it was made by an American in a Gold medal game. And then having to hear a bunch of ignorant crap about how woman's football is simply 'so much better than men's.'

Please...

At any rate, I honestly don't give a shit about the warning itself. I'll proudly keep it.

The ignorance, however, is all on you -- as in the ones that participated in defending such major bullshit.

In closing, I enjoy any number of women's sports even more than I do their men's counterparts (volleyball for one; and not the cheap beach bikini-clad cr*p) -- but please, please, till you find female equivalents to say, Casillas, Messi, Ronaldo, Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard & Albert Pujols, stay away from comparing male & female sports achievements. It's simply ignorant in more ways than one.

[Oakminster]

Got to say I think the warning was more than a little heavy handed. NFL and College football threads frequently get a lot rowdier than that without any mod intervention, much less a formal warning.

[RickJay]

RedFury, you were warned because you were acting like a jerk and threadshitting. The thread in question is about the Olympic soccer final, and you barged in to crap all over people enjoying a game you admit to not having watched. You were not warned for holding any particular opinion.

Your alleged knowledge of the sport in question is irrelevant, as is mine, since we don't hand out warnings for opinions on a particular sport. You've been around long enough to know we have rules against threadshitting.

Oakminster, as to your point, no, they really don't. A degree of trash talk amongst rival fans is acceptable and is, correctly, regarded as being talk limited to the context of the sport. If I say in the context of a college sports discussion that UCLA sucks and I hope their stadium burns to the ground because I'm a fan of (UCLA rival) that's just fan talk. If, on the other hand, I entered a lively discussion of college football to state that college football is a lousy sport and people who prefer it to the NFL don't know anything about football, that is derailing a thread and is a warning offense. If you see that sort of thing happening by all means please report it.

[Oakminster]

Rickjay your threshold for "threadshitting" appears to be amazingly low...like virtually undetectable in this instance. At best that was mild snark. If that's the kind of call you are going to make, I hope you stay the hell out of NFL/College football threads. You'll end up banning half the participants.

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by RickJay

RedFury, you were warned because you were acting like a jerk and threadshitting. The thread in question is about the Olympic soccer final, and you barged in to crap all over people enjoying a game you admit to not having watched. You were not warned for holding any particular opinion.

Your alleged knowledge of the sport in question is irrelevant, as is mine, since we don't hand out warnings for opinions on a particular sport. You've been around long enough to know we have rules against threadshitting...

Whatever dude, I well know that your word is gold around here -- as in "circle the wagons" and all that.

Doesn't make you any less ignorant of either the topic at hand -- and, if you'd like, the equally threadshitting (yet much more ignorant by a factor of ten) responses -- and your itchy trigger finger BS yellow card.

Yeah. You're The Man.

::::bows::::

Can I get your autograph? I have plans for the paper it's written on...

[FinnAgain]

Stay classy.

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by FinnAgain

Stay classy.

Stay succinct.

[FinnAgain]

Nah, I enjoy knowing who's cognitively able to handle text longer than a cereal box top and who isn't. But thanks for your kind concern.

[Marley23]

If you'd been modded for your first post in the thread --

Originally Posted by RedFury

Congrats on the US win, but I surmise you are no fan of the men's game, correct? Different sport after all.

You'd probably have a point. That one was a bit sarcastic but wasn't threadshitting. This was:

Originally Posted by RedFury

Just confirms what I've always suspected -- the US woman's team is successful; therefore they are "awesome football players." No actual football knowledge needed.

Need any confirmation?



There you go.

The thread was about the women's Olympic soccer final, not a comparison of men's vs. women's soccer. So when you said anyone who prefers the women's game doesn't know the sport, you were threadshitting. Your comments in this thread make it that much clearer.

And this is not the forum to argue the comparative merits of men's and women's sports. You can open a Game Room thread about that, but ATMB threads need to be about moderation or the rules.

[Oakminster]

Sigh. I still disagree with the warning, but Red's conduct in this thread makes me wish I'd just stayed out of it. Bowing out now. Carry on.

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by Marley23

...This was:


The thread was about the women's Olympic soccer final, not a comparison of men's vs. women's soccer. So when you said anyone who prefers the women's game doesn't know the sport, you were threadshitting. Your comments in this thread make it that much clearer.

And this is not the forum to argue the comparative merits of men's and women's sports. You can open a Game Room thread about that, but ATMB threads need to be about moderation or the rules.

Thanks but no thanks, Marley -- obvious is as obvious does. That said, what you left out out of that quote is precisely what I am arguing about in so far as moderation:

Originally Posted by Knorf

I'll not speak for Airman Doors, but I will say that as much as I love soccer played by men, women's soccer does offer an overall cleaner game with fewer fouls, almost no diving, and a lot less whinging on the field in general, and all this nowadays without sacrificing anything in the way of athletic excitement.

See? I was responding to said comment in the second quote. Thus if I am going to be accused of "threadshitting" for your second cite you'd have to look at the context in which I did so -- meaning, as I am showing you, that it was preceded by someone else making an off-topic comment.

That said, note that I am NOT asking for the warning to be rescinded, but rather proving that it was uncalled for. If that makes me persona non grata around here just say the word. I neither beg nor crawl.

---

Oakminster, appreciate your comprehension on the matter at hand and understand your bowing-out due to my rather brusque ways -- but I don't feel I need to be polite to anyone who tries to lord over me just because they feel they can; nor those who think they can poke me with a stick in a thread they have zilch to do with. I am who I am, and shall remain so till my last breath.

Best always.

[Snarky_Kong]

Get off your cross, wow.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by RedFury

See? I was responding to said comment in the second quote. Thus if I am going to be accused of "threadshitting" for your second cite you'd have to look at the context in which I did so -- meaning, as I am showing you, that it was preceded by someone else making an off-topic comment.

I still fail to see how that justifies your comment about American fans and your dig at people who prefer women's soccer.

That said, note that I am NOT asking for the warning to be rescinded, but rather proving that it was uncalled for. If that makes me persona non grata around here just say the word. I neither beg nor crawl.

I don't think the warning was going to be rescinded regardless, and nobody asked you to beg. I don't think anybody gives a damn about your pride; you're being asked to discuss the subject at hand without gratuitous potshots at people with differing opinions.

[MsWhatsit]

Originally Posted by RedFury

Oakminster, appreciate your comprehension on the matter at hand and understand your bowing-out due to my rather brusque ways -- but I don't feel I need to be polite to anyone who tries to lord over me just because they feel they can; nor those who think they can poke me with a stick in a thread they have zilch to do with. I am who I am, and shall remain so till my last breath.

Best always.

Dude. It's a message board thread, not the Last Stand of the 300.

[TriPolar]

Originally Posted by RedFury

...but I don't feel I need to be polite to anyone who tries to lord over me just because they feel they can; nor those who think they can poke me with a stick in a thread they have zilch to do with. I am who I am, and shall remain so till my last breath.

I'm with you bro. Fight it out to your last breath.

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by Marley23

I still fail to see how that justifies your comment about American fans and your dig at people who prefer women's soccer.

Not justification needed. Snark meets snark.

I don't think the warning was going to be rescinded regardless, and nobody asked you to beg. I don't think anybody gives a damn about your pride; you're being asked to discuss the subject at hand without gratuitous potshots at people with differing opinions.

Good. And I am. As for "potshots" one was taken at me and I responded in kind.

---

Originally Posted by MsWhatsit

Dude. It's a message board thread, not the Last Stand of the 300.

Learn something new everyday.

Much appreciated, dudette, but I am Sparta.

---

Originally Posted by Snarky_Kong

Get off your cross, wow.

In order to stay on topic, that would be "crossbar," correct?

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by RedFury

Not justification needed. Snark meets snark.




Good. And I am. As for "potshots" one was taken at me and I responded in kind.

Maybe we've identified the problem: nobody in the thread was snarky with you and nobody took a potshot at you until after you'd impugned the knowledge of other posters. So you were being a jerk, which is why you were warned. I'm not sure why you felt shots were being taken at you, but in the future, don't "respond in kind."

[RedFury]

Don't agree, Marley. But I've said my piece & unless you have something else to add, I'm done here.

I will say that although I hardly ever visit this side of the Forum, it felt good to be able to express my feelings, my way. So for that, I thank you.

Whether you'd like to leave the thread open for other opinions -- favorable or not to my OP -- is entirely up to you. Although I am sure I am always right, I must admit there are times where there's is no right or wrong. Just different ways of looking at the same picture.

[bucketybuck]

I'm with Redfury on this one. What a bullshit warning. If somebody in a sports thread posts something utterly stupid then you should not face a warning for pointing out that they have just talked a load of shite.

There was no need for a warning in that instance, and before people get on their high horses about Redfurys tone in this thread, just remember that for people who make genuine efforts to post within the rules of a message board, bullshit warnings can easily leave a feeling of "fuck it, whats the point".

[Martini Enfield]

Originally Posted by bucketybuck

I'm with Redfury on this one. What a bullshit warning. If somebody in a sports thread posts something utterly stupid then you should not face a warning for pointing out that they have just talked a load of shite.

There was no need for a warning in that instance, and before people get on their high horses about Redfurys tone in this thread, just remember that for people who make genuine efforts to post within the rules of a message board, bullshit warnings can easily leave a feeling of "fuck it, whats the point".

As someone who as also received what they consider to be a "bullshit warning" (especially since, as I later discovered, an earlier instance in a different thread of pretty much exactly the same circumstances did not even warrant a mod note), this is something I can relate to.

[Marley23]

Originally Posted by bucketybuck

If somebody in a sports thread posts something utterly stupid

I understand RedFury thought it was stupid and you obviously agree, but that's not some kind of objective determination. And no, it does not give you the freedom to insult everybody else.

[Lamar Mundane]

I for one never knew that the men could beat the women in football until RedFury graciously pointed it out. I'm sure I speak for the vast majority of posters here when I say that.

[Knorf]

Originally Posted by RedFury

...and right after that a certain Knorf butts in to write one of the most ignorant posts I've read here yet -- and after a decade, that's saying something.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

What's hilarious is your assumption that because someone enjoys women's soccer, it must necessarily mean that person doesn't watch men's soccer or understand anything about it. If you put in the least effort, you'd find you were entirely wrong in your assumption about my understanding of the sport.

I stand by my post. I never said that the women would be athletically competitive with men in a one-to-one scenario. You're the one who came in with this:

Just confirms what I've always suspected -- the US woman's team is successful; therefore they are "awesome football players." No actual football knowledge needed.

Yep, that's thread-shitting. Incidentally, you weren't even quoting anyone. I did say Carli Lloyd's second goal was "sensational," which it was. I also said the women are "good footballers," which they are.

You didn't even watch the game. The top women's teams are good. Are they as good as Barcelona FC, or the hated enemies of football, Real Madrid, or any of the top teams in the major leagues in Europe or the best international men's sides? Well, no. So what? They're still good, and the match was exciting football, which you'd know if you had actually watched the match and didn't feel the need to protect your sainted manhood with "herp derp men are better lolz" when someone praises the athletic success of women. Nope, that's not a quote, but I think it's a fair paraphrase of the intellectual quality of your contribution to the thread.

Disagreements of opinion are par for the course. But you leap from disagreeing with an opinion to assuming the person who holds it necessarily knows nothing about the sport, with nothing else to base this on. That's just kind of pathetic, but not as pathetic as your testosterone-driven need to bash women's soccer and insult the fans who enjoy it.

[RaftPeople]

My 2 cents:
RedFury you seemed to go into that thread with an axe to grind.

Just confirms what I've always suspected -- the US woman's team is successful; therefore they are "awesome football players." No actual football knowledge needed.

Here are a couple questions for you and I do hope you answer them:
1) When a team (any team, from any country in any sport) wins the gold, don't you think it's reasonable to say they are "awesome" at their sport (in this case soccer)?

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", does this mean that it is unlikely (not impossible but unlikely) that there are any "awesome" soccer players that are women in the entire world?

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by RaftPeople

My 2 cents:
RedFury you seemed to go into that thread with an axe to grind.

*quote added by yours truly as it doesn't show in the reply box:

I have no problem responding to you as I feel your questions are both fair & respectful. I think It's important to note that that was my second response in that thread. In my first post I merely asked what was so great about the save -- while congratulating the US team on the Gold.

I then get two responses, one from Lamar stating it was an expected save and one from Knorf, championing the women's game over the men's.

The ensuing exchange can be followed either in the thread itself or by simply following the links in the OP. Thus no need to repeat it here.

Originally Posted by RaftPeople

Here are a couple questions for you and I do hope you answer them:

No, not at all.

1) When a team (any team, from any country in any sport) wins the gold, don't you think it's reasonable to say they are "awesome" at their sport (in this case soccer)?

In most circumstances -- and I have no reason to doubt this was one of them -- sure, I'd say that is a fair claim.

2) If the answer to #1 is "no", does this mean that it is unlikely (not impossible but unlikely) that there are any "awesome" soccer players that are women in the entire world?

Well, since my response was in the affirmative, the answer to this query would be the same: sure, there are.

Where it gets beyond "stupid" to my way of thinking, is when some posters start ragging on men's football -- a "sport" unto itself in the SDMB for as long as I've been here -- and come up with posts such as this one:

The USA, Canada, Japan, and to a lesser extent France and Brazil all showed great skill in the Olympic tournament, and as others have mentioned they play a more manly game than the dancers, divers, and preeners of the men's game. If today's game were played exactly the same way but the teams were Barca and Real instead, they'd have run out of stretchers in the first half.

Which, as you'll note, I didn't even respond to the next morning as I had already been given a warning. Point being, I don't deny that there are fine female athletes in many a sport -- it'd be ridiculous to do so -- but to suggest that pro teams in European Football Leagues would be put out in stretchers in the match the US & Japan played in the Olympic final, is, quite honestly, beyond moronic. Most professional men's club teams in the world could spot any woman's NT 10 goals and still beat them handily. Or do you honestly think professional managers/team owners are going to shell out $90 million dollars, when they could buy a gal just as talented for say, $500,000? Where are they, pray tell? 'cause I'd become their agent faster that you could say "this one."

Trust that answers your query.

[Carmady]

The formal warning was certainly going overboard. I was taken aback when I saw it.

A non-formal warning to take that discussion to another thread would have been fine. It is a legitimate discussion, involving several people, not entirely off topic, even if I disagree with RedFury.

[RaftPeople]

Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.

So, it sounds like the point you were making was that, just because a save was made by the US women's soccer team to win, that doesn't automatically make it a great save. It's certainly possible to have a great save in women's soccer, but we shouldn't jump to that conclusion just because "our" team won and a save happened at about the same time.

Was this kind of your point?

[Suse]

I read the part you underlined differently than you, I think. I understood that to be a comment on the faked injuries being common in the men's game, rather than saying that the women's game was so tough that the men would end up being injured.

If I've read you wrong, I apologize. But I do think this is just a misunderstanding.

ETA: This is in response to RedFury's post #25

[Lamar Mundane]

Originally Posted by Suse

I read the part you underlined differently than you, I think. I understood that to be a comment on the faked injuries being common in the men's game, rather than saying that the women's game was so tough that the men would end up being injured.

You are correct.

[Knorf]

Originally Posted by RedFury

I then get two responses, one from Lamar stating it was an expected save and one from Knorf, championing the women's game over the men's.

Nope. Didn't do that.

[Autolycus]

I too thought the original warning was a bit overboard, but the longer this thread goes on, the less and less sympathetic I'm feeling.

[Malacandra]

Originally Posted by MsWhatsit

Dude. It's a message board thread, not the Last Stand of the 300.

"Madness? THIS! IS! ATMB!"

[RedFury]

Originally Posted by RaftPeople

Thanks for answering, I appreciate it.

So, it sounds like the point you were making was that, just because a save was made by the US women's soccer team to win, that doesn't automatically make it a great save. It's certainly possible to have a great save in women's soccer, but we shouldn't jump to that conclusion just because "our" team won and a save happened at about the same time.

Was this kind of your point?

My pleasure & spot on -- that's exactly the point. And the very reason I asked for details about said save. The whole "best save I've seen..." certainly piqued my interest as a footie fan & former goalie.

Originally Posted by Autolycus

I too thought the original warning was a bit overboard, but the longer this thread goes on, the less and less sympathetic I'm feeling.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel that way?

Originally Posted by Suse

I read the part you underlined differently than you, I think. I understood that to be a comment on the faked injuries being common in the men's game, rather than saying that the women's game was so tough that the men would end up being injured.

If I've read you wrong, I apologize. But I do think this is just a misunderstanding...

I suppose if I did a handstand and read the post backwards, I might come to the same parsing that you did. But since I didn't do that...

That said, I do appreciate your input. Apologies certainly not needed.