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Old 08-09-2016, 04:47 AM
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Bridge: 7 No Trumps baby!


Brag alert!

Bid and made last night. And we were the only pair who bid it.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:17 AM
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Could you show us the hand you held and the bidding sequence? Would love to see it.
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:28 PM
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Going from memory, partner had Sx HATxxx DAJT98 Cxx and I (sitting North) had SAKJx HKx DKQx CAKxx. Bidding was three passes to me and I opened 2C, partner responded 3H. Putting him with at least 6 hearts I went to Blackwood 4NT and after his bid of 5H I went 7NT. There was no need to ask for Kings! The opening lead was a small spade which helped. I squeezed the opposition in hearts and spades for the final trick.

At some tables South opened 1H and North went straight to 4NT. Really I'd prefer a sequence of 1H - 1S - 2D - 4NT etc rather than assume partner has 5 hearts.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:25 PM
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Seems like kind of undisciplined bidding to me, given that you're off three queens and don't know the diamond situation based on the bidding (did your partner really have six hearts or just 5?)

Then again, I recently accidentally made a 6C-X slam with 18 HCP between my partner and myself. I was aiming for a sacrifice, but made when my partner showed up with the A and AK of the two suits in which I had a singleton and doubleton respectively, AND a void in the opponent's suit.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:47 PM
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Congrats!

My biggest triumph was when partner and I were both long in a different suit, playing against people who were also long in the other suits. They both tried to steer the bidding to their respective suit for a long time (they must both have had 6 apiece of them) before settling on 5NT. We of course redoubled and took the majority of the tricks.
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:48 PM
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Off to the Game Room.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finagle View Post
Seems like kind of undisciplined bidding to me,
Do tell.

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given that you're off three queens and don't know the diamond situation based on the bidding (did your partner really have six hearts or just 5?)
I knew we had all four aces and all four kings. Blackwood can't check further. I expected partner to have six or more hearts, not five, so that suit was expected to run.
  #8  
Old 08-18-2016, 01:22 PM
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x
A10xxx
AJ1098
xx

AKJx
Kx
KQx
AKxx

?? I don't even see how you make 7NT with these cards. I count 3 spades (at most), 2 hearts, 5 diamonds, and 2 clubs. Was the QJ hearts doubleton for the 13th trick? Not a slam I'd want to be in, needing both the spade finesse and the QJ doubleton of hearts.
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Old 08-18-2016, 01:40 PM
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The only other play I can see is trying to pull off a squeeze, hoping the defenders drop enough hearts before running them...but a good defender would likely see that coming. Maybe a deep finesse to the 10H (and the spade finesse working)?

Last edited by Johnny Ace; 08-18-2016 at 01:44 PM.
  #10  
Old 08-18-2016, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TexCat View Post
?? I don't even see how you make 7NT with these cards.
The lead was a small spade which gave me the spade finesse.

Quote:
I count 3 spades (at most), 2 hearts, 5 diamonds, and 2 clubs. Was the QJ hearts doubleton for the 13th trick? Not a slam I'd want to be in, needing both the spade finesse and the QJ doubleton of hearts.
I didn't need the HQJ doubleton: I ran the diamonds, squeezing the other suits and made four spade tricks.
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Old 08-18-2016, 10:42 PM
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From the Nationals in Washington last month:

Both vul.

I am sitting East. South deals:

I hold:

S: K, 10, 6, 4
H: 8, 5
D: A, K, 4, 3
C: A, J, 6

S: Pass
W: Pass
N: Pass
Me: 1 NT (15 to 17)

All pass.

Opening lead is spade 3 and partner puts down:

S: 8, 7 ,5
H: Q, 7, 6, 3
D: Q, 9
C: 10, 7, 5, 4.

Hmmmm...

I cover the spade 3, with the 5. North plays the Jack.

Now what?

Last edited by Biotop; 08-18-2016 at 10:43 PM.
  #12  
Old 08-19-2016, 05:05 AM
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You have four tricks on top and 19 HCP between the two hands. Assuming the lead is a standard 4th highest, you must win the opening lead. That's 5 tricks. You appear to have three spade losers, and the opener holds SA. From the lead, I'll tentatively put SQJx HAJxx with RHO and SAxxx HKxx with LHO. RHO is the danger hand. So, cross to dummy with DQ and play a small club to your Jack. If LHO wins and starts on spades, your S10 becomes good. If RHO plays CK or CQ over your club lead, cover it and play the CJ to make two club tricks in dummy for tricks 6 and 7.
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Old 08-19-2016, 07:10 AM
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I love Bridge threads, though I haven't played recently and I've probably played under 1,000 hands in my life. I did once bid and make 7C, when my partner opened 1C and I had a number of clubs with about 20 points. Being inexperienced I launched straight into Blackwood, and it worked. The funny thing was she had to play the hand, having opened with my suit! We might have been able to make 7NT but I didn't even think about that at the time.

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Originally Posted by Ludovic View Post

My biggest triumph was when partner and I were both long in a different suit, playing against people who were also long in the other suits. They both tried to steer the bidding to their respective suit for a long time (they must both have had 6 apiece of them) before settling on 5NT. We of course redoubled and took the majority of the tricks.
Not to rain on your parade, but 5NT is a horrible place to end up and is a bit of an error on your opponents' part. One of the few bridge tips I can remember is that if you have a misfit, it's usually best to stop bidding ASAP (in the absence of other cues) to limit the damage. In particular, there's no point in continually rebidding your longest suit, as it doesn't give your partner any more information.
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Old 08-19-2016, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dead Cat View Post
I love Bridge threads, though I haven't played recently and I've probably played under 1,000 hands in my life. I did once bid and make 7C, when my partner opened 1C and I had a number of clubs with about 20 points. Being inexperienced I launched straight into Blackwood, and it worked. The funny thing was she had to play the hand, having opened with my suit! We might have been able to make 7NT but I didn't even think about that at the time.
A year or so ago, I opened, there was an overcall, and my partner jumped to 5D. As I had the other three aces, I put him up to 7D. He had kittens - we were playing in exalted company - but he made it with ease. We got an average score - the contract should have been 7NT.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
You have four tricks on top and 19 HCP between the two hands. Assuming the lead is a standard 4th highest, you must win the opening lead. That's 5 tricks. You appear to have three spade losers, and the opener holds SA. From the lead, I'll tentatively put SQJx HAJxx with RHO and SAxxx HKxx with LHO. RHO is the danger hand. So, cross to dummy with DQ and play a small club to your Jack. If LHO wins and starts on spades, your S10 becomes good. If RHO plays CK or CQ over your club lead, cover it and play the CJ to make two club tricks in dummy for tricks 6 and 7.
Good thoughts.

When my partner and I played in Washington, we were having a run of good luck. With the exception of poor play in the Gold Rush Knockouts on Friday, we were at least scratching in every event. Twice we came in second place in side pair games and we got good gold points on Saturday.

On Friday night we played in the Midnight Cappelletti Knockouts, which were hosted by a son of the bridge great player Cappelletti in remembrance of his brother who had recently died. Nearly everyone had a beer or carried a bottle of something. It was a Swiss game and we were paired with a nice couple of older ladies who were a bit stunned by all the alcohol.

As luck would have it, we were up against the Cappelletti family team foursome in the first Knockout round. They were nice folks, obviously a bit tipsy, and absurdly good bridge players. We were destroyed. My only high point was to bid a 3 no trump game on a long club suit and a prayer. It made, and was not bid at the other table. Despite that, we were sent packing. I went to bed but my partner hung around and ended up doing caddy duty from the hotel bar for the remaining players who were buying rounds for everyone.

Anyway, the deal I posted above was from a side Pairs game played Sunday morning, our last session before we had to leave and go back home. At the very first table I made a misplay that cost us our game bid. Partner was chagrined, which probably led to his extreme misplay at the next table. Opps made their unmakeable game...doubled. Now we knew we had two bottoms. At the third table we did poorly as well. This was obviously going to be a bad way to end our four days of bridge. So, tired and irked, we agreed after the third round to throw caution to the wind, bid crazy, and just have fun at the remaining tables.

This strategy seemed to help, and we had some moderately good boards before the hand I posted above.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biotop View Post
Twice we came in second place in side pair games and we got good gold points on Saturday.
Heh. I'm only a Bronze level competitor here in Scotland. My Bridge playing is quite schizophrenic: I play in an intermediate, social, group one evening a week where we generally come top or second, but I also used to play with national-class players, and we were happy to not come bottom. Unfortunately, I'm between partners for the latter group.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:49 AM
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This was the full deal:

South

S: A, Q, 9, 3, 2
H: J, 10, 2
D: J, 7, 6, 2
C: 9

West (partner)

S: 8, 7, 5
H: Q, 7, 6, 3
D: Q, 9
C:10, 7, 5, 4

North

S: J
H: A, K, 9, 4
D: 10, 8, 5
C: K, Q, 8, 3, 2

East (me)

S: K, 10, 6, 4
H: 8, 5
D: A, K, 4, 3
C: A, J, 6

Three passes to my No trump, and then passed around. I still do not understand why North did not bid.

In any case, I won the spade Jack with my King and took stock. I had five top winners and probably a club and maybe another spade. Those were the seven tricks I needed. However, what if they took their many winners before I could set up mine? I could imagine unhappy scenarios where multiple heart losers would be a huge problem.

So on trick two I led a heart to my Queen, trying to look like a guy working to set up his hearts. South put up her Jack and I ducked, South winning. South next cashed her spade Ace and there was a long pause when her partner showed out. She finally played her Spade Queen and after more hesitation followed with a club, my Ace taking North's King. I crossed to the diamond queen and led clubs. All North could do was win the trick and cash his heart winners and thus I made my contract.

The defense was poor, but I like to think my heart lead at trick two helped them screw up.

The happy ending is that we finished top team for the entire game, won little plastic bridge drinking cups as a prize, and went home feeling on top of the world.
  #18  
Old 08-19-2016, 03:23 PM
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2 Hearts is cold for N-S on a spade/club cross-ruff unless someone leads trumps. Presumably the bidding would go 1C - x - 1S - Pass - 2H - All Pass. You get 3 diamond tricks, a club trick, and possibly a heart trick.
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:53 PM
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Yep.

Defensive errors are so easy to make. I think correct defense on my 1NT was hard. Still, you gotta bid with that hand in the North seat.

I played another hand in Washington where my opening of 1 club was passed around. We had 18 high card points and 5 total clubs between partner and I, but somehow the contract still made. Can't find the hand record now, alas.
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Old 08-21-2016, 09:25 AM
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My favorite 7NT anecdote:

Dealer bids 2NT, there's a pass, CHO says, "You're light, Sam." and bids 7NT.

Opponents (lacking humor) call over a tournament director, but at this point the only possible decision Sam could ever have to make in the rest of the bidding would be whether to redouble, and the opponents aren't doubling.

Sam did, in fact, open a 19 HCP hand as a 20-21 2NT, and with CHO's 21 HCP 7NT was cold. He later claimed his hand was particularly 'shapely' as an excuse for his 2NT overbid, and his embarrassment while making this lame excuse made the story much funnier when I heard it.
  #21  
Old 08-21-2016, 10:16 AM
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Sometimes people count Tens as half a point for No Trumps only.
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Old 08-21-2016, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Some Call Me... Tim View Post
My favorite 7NT anecdote:



Dealer bids 2NT, there's a pass, CHO says, "You're light, Sam." and bids 7NT.



Opponents (lacking humor) call over a tournament director, but at this point the only possible decision Sam could ever have to make in the rest of the bidding would be whether to redouble, and the opponents aren't doubling.



Sam did, in fact, open a 19 HCP hand as a 20-21 2NT, and with CHO's 21 HCP 7NT was cold. He later claimed his hand was particularly 'shapely' as an excuse for his 2NT overbid, and his embarrassment while making this lame excuse made the story much funnier when I heard it.


Yeah, go on and bar the 2NT opener from an auction that's already at 7NT. LOL.

Since nowadays one is expected to announce partner's NT point count range when it's opened, I guess Sam's partner could simply have said "20 to 21... (Ahem) or sometimes a good 19. APPARENTLY."


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Old 08-21-2016, 04:25 PM
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You announce point counts only for 1 NT openers. You might alert a 2 NT or 3 NT opener if it were non-standard like a gambling 3 NT. At least that's all I've ever done or heard done around here.
  #24  
Old 08-22-2016, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robardin View Post
Since nowadays one is expected to announce partner's NT point count range when it's opened,
Only if asked. And asking risks Unauthorised Information.

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I guess Sam's partner could simply have said "20 to 21... (Ahem) or sometimes a good 19. APPARENTLY."
That last part would result in a call to the director.

Last edited by Quartz; 08-22-2016 at 01:19 AM.
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:47 AM
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Reporting for forum change to Elec-

What?

Oh. Never mind.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Going from memory, partner had Sx HATxxx DAJT98 Cxx and I (sitting North) had SAKJx HKx DKQx CAKxx. Bidding was three passes to me and I opened 2C, partner responded 3H. Putting him with at least 6 hearts I went to Blackwood 4NT and after his bid of 5H I went 7NT. There was no need to ask for Kings! The opening lead was a small spade which helped. I squeezed the opposition in hearts and spades for the final trick.

At some tables South opened 1H and North went straight to 4NT. Really I'd prefer a sequence of 1H - 1S - 2D - 4NT etc rather than assume partner has 5 hearts.
As 2H by partner would show 5+ hearts and be game forcing, I am not sure what 3H was supposed to mean. Like you, I would have assumed longer hearts than 5. As partner passed first, what could s/he have that now justifies a 3H bid? If you do not play weak 2s, then maybe a good weak 2 type of hand. 3H just wastes space and virtually guarantees you will not find a diamond fit, if you have one. Note that 7D is a much better contract. On a non-trump lead you make if hearts are 3-3 or 4-2. On a trump lead you will need diamonds to be 3-2 if hearts are 4-2, but can handle a 4-1 diamond break if hearts are 3-3.

Do you play key card Blackwood? 5H would show both aces, but deny the QH, so that should warn you off bidding the grand.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by amarone View Post
As 2H by partner would show 5+ hearts and be game forcing, I am not sure what 3H was supposed to mean. Like you, I would have assumed longer hearts than 5. As partner passed first, what could s/he have that now justifies a 3H bid? If you do not play weak 2s, then maybe a good weak 2 type of hand.
We were playing strong 2s.

Quote:
3H just wastes space and virtually guarantees you will not find a diamond fit, if you have one. Note that 7D is a much better contract. On a non-trump lead you make if hearts are 3-3 or 4-2. On a trump lead you will need diamonds to be 3-2 if hearts are 4-2, but can handle a 4-1 diamond break if hearts are 3-3.
Excellent analysis.

Quote:
Do you play key card Blackwood? 5H would show both aces, but deny the QH, so that should warn you off bidding the grand.
I can, but my partner that evening did not.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Going from memory, partner had Sx HATxxx DAJT98 Cxx and I (sitting North) had SAKJx HKx DKQx CAKxx. Bidding was three passes to me and I opened 2C, partner responded 3H. Putting him with at least 6 hearts I went to Blackwood 4NT and after his bid of 5H I went 7NT. There was no need to ask for Kings! The opening lead was a small spade which helped. I squeezed the opposition in hearts and spades for the final trick.

At some tables South opened 1H and North went straight to 4NT. Really I'd prefer a sequence of 1H - 1S - 2D - 4NT etc rather than assume partner has 5 hearts.
Well done on your top bid!

I'm more cautious - I only bid small slams that have a 50% chance of making and grand slams that are 75% or better. (I think the scoring system, particularly in teams bridge, justifies that.)

In the bidding, could your partner not have responded 2H to show a positive with a heart suit? (I assume 2D is the negative.)
  #29  
Old 08-23-2016, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by glee View Post
In the bidding, could your partner not have responded 2H to show a positive with a heart suit? (I assume 2D is the negative.)
Yes. I would have bid 2H. Given his initial pass, I'm thinking along the lines of 2C - 2H - 2S - 3D - 4NT etc.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:24 AM
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Yes. I would have bid 2H. Given his initial pass, I'm thinking along the lines of 2C - 2H - 2S - 3D - 4NT etc.
3D does not show any more than a 3 card suit, so it's presumptuous to bid 4NT ace-asking, if that is what it is (I would play it as natural because we have not agreed a trump suit). Plus you do not have any more than you showed with your 2C bid. Assuming you are playing Acol, that shows 23+ if balanced, so you are minimum. Therefore it is not really your position to be driving to slam. Partner could have xx Qxxxx Axxx Jx. Even 3NT is not certain to make.

I suggest 2C - 2H - 2NT - 3D - 3H (this must show doubleton support as you did not raise immediately) - 4D (showing at least 5 - 5 and slam interest, otherwise would have passed 3NT). Now it depends on how to ask for aces. I would use 4S in this sequence, leaving 4NT as natural. If you are able to bid 4NT as RKCB for diamonds, the bidding would proceed 4NT - 5H (2, no QD). You can now count to 13 tricks via 2S 3H (after ruffing them good) 5D 2C and 2 heart ruffs. The problem is that two heart ruffs will use up the QD, so partner needs JD for the grand to be good. There's no way you can ask for JD. You might just choose to bid 7D because it will be good if one of the following occurs:

- partner has JD
- partner has QS (now you have 13 tricks on a 3-2 trump break)
- hearts are 3-3
  #31  
Old 08-23-2016, 06:37 AM
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- 4D (showing at least 5 - 5 and slam interest, otherwise would have passed 3NT).
Oops - I meant "otherwise would not have gone past 3NT"
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarone View Post
3D does not show any more than a 3 card suit,
In standard ACOL it shows 4+ cards.

Quote:
I suggest 2C - 2H - 2NT - 3D - 3H (this must show doubleton support as you did not raise immediately)
Actually this would show 3 card support, so the preferred response would be 4D. I'm interested that you would bid 2NT instead of 2S. Surely bidding 2NT would indicate only 2 or 3 spades? If partner had been 5-5 in Hearts and Spades, we would have missed that.

But yes, 7D would have been a better contract.
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Old 08-23-2016, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
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In standard ACOL it shows 4+ cards.
Sorry, I meant 4, and therefore you cannot support yet with just 3.


Quote:
Actually this would show 3 card support, so the preferred response would be 4D. I'm interested that you would bid 2NT instead of 2S. Surely bidding 2NT would indicate only 2 or 3 spades? If partner had been 5-5 in Hearts and Spades, we would have missed that.
2NT shows the hand perfectly - 23+ balanced. As 2H shows five hearts, then 2NT denies three hearts so pretty much guarantees at least 3 spades. The only time you would not have three spades is if you have chosen to bid 2NT with 2-2-5/4. Similarly, you have virtually guaranteed 3+ diamonds, so the hand with 5-5 in the reds knows there is a diamond fit.

With 5-5 spades and hearts, responder should bid 2S initially, not 2H, so that is not a problem. If it goes 2C - 2S - 2NT, he can now bid 3H followed by 4H if necessary to show 5-5. Again, if partner bids 2NT over 2S, there is a virtual guarantee of 3 card heart support.

If responder is 4-5 in S-H, the bidding goes 2C - 2H - 2NT - 3S, so again there will not be a major suit fit missed.
  #34  
Old 08-23-2016, 01:47 PM
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Going in to work, but this hand from last night is still bugging me. We got a bottom score.

N/S vul. North deals and passes. I sit East.

S: J
H: void
D: A, K, Q, 10, 9, 6, 4, 3
C: 7, 6, 5, 2

I bid 1 diamond. South passes. Opps always pass this hand. Partner bids 1 heart. I jump bid 5 diamonds. Partner raises me to 6. All pass.

What do you think of my bidding so far?
  #35  
Old 08-23-2016, 02:35 PM
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Going in to work, but this hand from last night is still bugging me. We got a bottom score.

N/S vul. North deals and passes. I sit East.

S: J
H: void
D: A, K, Q, 10, 9, 6, 4, 3
C: 7, 6, 5, 2

I bid 1 diamond. South passes. Opps always pass this hand. Partner bids 1 heart. I jump bid 5 diamonds. Partner raises me to 6. All pass.

What do you think of my bidding so far?
Your hand is purely preemptive in nature. By opening 1D you have given the impression that you have values elsewhere in addition to long diamonds. Change one of those clubs into the King, and I would open that 1D.

I would open your hand 3NT, which shows a long, solid minor and no stops outside. Partner then determines whether s/he can stop the other suits. This is called the Gambling 3NT. If I did not play that convention, I would open the hand 5D.

After partner responds 1H and both opponents have passed, there is little need to pre-empt the bidding to the 5-level. The opponents have not bid, so probably do not have much. Nobody has bid spades. That suggests that partner has a decent hand with both spades and hearts. Bidding 5D just gives partner a problem. It's difficult to say what you should bid over 1H given that there is now no way of saying that all you have is long diamonds - everything you do will suggest that you have long diamonds plus something else.

What was your partner's hand?
  #36  
Old 08-23-2016, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarone View Post
2NT shows the hand perfectly - 23+ balanced. As 2H shows five hearts
Remember we play ACOL, not SAYC or something else. 2H would show 4+ hearts. A 4 card major is always biddable.

Quote:
With 5-5 spades and hearts, responder should bid 2S initially, not 2H,
I disagree: responder shows the lower suit first. If he bids 2S, it prevents me from bidding it.

Quote:
so that is not a problem. If it goes 2C - 2S - 2NT,
But after a response of 2S, I'm going to go Blackwood immediately with 4 spades in hand, not bid 2NT. Similarly, if he bids 2H and I respond 2NT he knows that I don't have 4+ spades.

Quote:
he can now bid 3H followed by 4H if necessary to show 5-5. Again, if partner bids 2NT over 2S, there is a virtual guarantee of 3 card heart support.
Sorry, you've lost me here. If partner had bid 2D, the negative, I'd have rebid 2NT to show a balanced hand, despite the 4 card spade suit. Partner can then bit 3NT with 2+ points or pass.

Quote:
If responder is 4-5 in S-H, the bidding goes 2C - 2H - 2NT - 3S, so again there will not be a major suit fit missed.
Over 2H I would respond 2S with a 4+ card spade suit, so if I don't, partner knows I don't have 4+ spades, so if he's only got 4, then he knows to not pursue a spade fit.
  #37  
Old 08-23-2016, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Biotop View Post
Going in to work, but this hand from last night is still bugging me. We got a bottom score.

N/S vul. North deals and passes. I sit East.

S: J
H: void
D: A, K, Q, 10, 9, 6, 4, 3
C: 7, 6, 5, 2

I bid 1 diamond. South passes. Opps always pass this hand. Partner bids 1 heart. I jump bid 5 diamonds. Partner raises me to 6. All pass.

What do you think of my bidding so far?
Not good. I agree with Amarone. Open 3NT, the Gambling 3NT. Technically you really need the Jack as well. Partner will either pass or bid 4C which you correct to 4D and partner passes or raises if strong.
  #38  
Old 08-23-2016, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Remember we play ACOL, not SAYC or something else. 2H would show 4+ hearts. A 4 card major is always biddable.
I am English and have played a lot of ACOL, albeit not much recently. Cite for 2H showing 5+ hearts:

http://www.bridgebum.com/acol_2c.php

You can agree differently with your partner, of course.


Quote:
I disagree: responder shows the lower suit first. If he bids 2S, it prevents me from bidding it.
You bid the lower suit when you have 4-card suits to allow partner to bid his 4-card suit next. You bid the higher when you have 5-card suits so you can then bid the lower suit twice to show 5-5. If you bid hearts then have to bid spades twice to show 5. Partner will not bid a 3-card spade suit, so you will have to bid your spades twice before you will get support.

It's just like opening bids. With 5-5 in the majors you open 1S, then bid hearts twice.



Quote:
But after a response of 2S, I'm going to go Blackwood immediately with 4 spades in hand, not bid 2NT.
I only bid 2NT without support for partner. If he bids spades, I will support immediately.

Partner holds xxxx Qxx Axx Jxx. You have him bidding this 4-card suit and now you launch into Blackwood. Are you going to bid slam when he responds "one ace"? Even 5S is in danger. Opening 2C shows 23+ balanced, or a distributional hand with a bunch of tricks. Show your hand and let partner share the decision. If you do allow 2S to be bid on a 4-card suit, I would raise it to 3S with your hand. We are in a game forcing auction, there's no hurry - let's see if partner wants to explore slam.

Quote:
Sorry, you've lost me here. If partner had bid 2D, the negative, I'd have rebid 2NT to show a balanced hand, despite the 4 card spade suit. Partner can then bit 3NT with 2+ points or pass.
I was saying 2C - 2S - 2NT - 3H - any - 4H shows 5-5 in the majors.



Quote:
Over 2H I would respond 2S with a 4+ card spade suit, so if I don't, partner knows I don't have 4+ spades, so if he's only got 4, then he knows to not pursue a spade fit.
You would also respond 2S with AKJTxxx - Kx AKQx. My point is that 2NT describes the type of 2C opener you have - 23+ balanced rather than distributional. You will still never miss a spade fit. And partner is in much better shape to judge the value of his hand if he knows the type of hand you have.
  #39  
Old 08-23-2016, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarone View Post
Your hand is purely preemptive in nature. By opening 1D you have given the impression that you have values elsewhere in addition to long diamonds. Change one of those clubs into the King, and I would openy that 1D.

I would open your hand 3NT, which shows a long, solid minor and no stops outside. Partner then determines whether s/he can stop the other suits. This is called the Gambling 3NT. If I did not play that convention, I would open the hand 5D.

After partner responds 1H and both opponents have passed, there is little need to pre-empt the bidding to the 5-level. The opponents have not bid, so probably do not have much. Nobody has bid spades. That suggests that partner has a decent hand with both spades and hearts. Bidding 5D just gives partner a problem. It's difficult to say what you should bid over 1H given that there is now no way of saying that all you have is long diamonds - everything you do will suggest that you have long diamonds plus something else.

What was your partner's hand?
We do not play gambling 3nt, alas.

Partner had:

S: A, K, 7, 3
H: A, Q, 9, 7, 3 ,2
D: void
C: J, 10, 9

We were down 1 after a spade lead.

So what would partner reply if we played G3nt?

I felt like my opening of 1 diamond in the 2nd seat, and my next jump to 5 would show a hand that wanted to play on 5 unless partner had really strong values. But now I think I should have just opened 5 diamonds. The defense can take 3 clubs off the top, but it is hard for South to find the lead from Kxx.

If I don't make the jump to 5 diamonds, partner may pass. I know I want to play there unless partner has a slam hand. Is there a good artificial forcing bid for me after the 1h response?
  #40  
Old 08-23-2016, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biotop View Post
We do not play gambling 3nt, alas.

Partner had:

S: A, K, 7, 3
H: A, Q, 9, 7, 3 ,2
D: void
C: J, 10, 9

We were down 1 after a spade lead.

So what would partner reply if we played G3nt?
5D. He cannot stay in 3NT, not so much because of lack of club stop, but because his diamond void means there is no access to all those diamond tricks. It is just possible that partner has clubs. If so, you want to play in 6C. Partner will pass 5D with D and convert to 6C with clubs.


Quote:
I felt like my opening of 1 diamond in the 2nd seat, and my next jump to 5 would show a hand that wanted to play on 5 unless partner had really strong values. But now I think I should have just opened 5 diamonds. The defense can take 3 clubs off the top, but it is hard for South to find the lead from Kxx.

If I don't make the jump to 5 diamonds, partner may pass. I know I want to play there unless partner has a slam hand. Is there a good artificial forcing bid for me after the 1h response?
If you convert AS to the QS, partner is much better than minimum and you are still 2 or 3 down in 5D and opponents have no game on. The problem is that partner does have a slam hand - but slam does not make because you don't have a 1D bid. If you had KC in addition, as I mentioned earlier, slam is on a reasonable trump break plus the club finesse (or club lead, or heart lead from the king). If you had AC plus your diamonds, slam just needs a reasonable trump break.

There is no good artificial forcing bid available to you after the 1H response.
  #41  
Old 08-24-2016, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarone View Post
I am English and have played a lot of ACOL, albeit not much recently. Cite for 2H showing 5+ hearts:

http://www.bridgebum.com/acol_2c.php
All About Acol, p.175:

Quote:
A four card major is always 'biddable'
Quote:
Partner holds xxxx Qxx Axx Jxx.
That would qualify for a 2D response, despite the 7 points. Improve it to xxxx Kxx Axx xx and it becomes 2S.

Last edited by Quartz; 08-24-2016 at 03:36 AM.
  #42  
Old 08-24-2016, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
All About Acol, p.175: a four card suit is always biddable
Another for 5 card suit: http://www.bridgedoctor.com/lessons/acol-19-learning-bridge-card-game.htm

And the EBU, in its definition of ACOL, states that not only should it be a 5-card suit, but headed by the AQ or better (which is how SAYC or 2 over 1 generally plays it).

www.ebu.co.uk/documents/laws-and-ethics/...cards/modern-acolv2-system-file.pdf

I think you are reading too much into that "always biddable" statement. There are several occasions where you do not immediately bid 4-card suits, the obvious ones being when partner opens 1NT or 2NT, or in competition.


Quote:
That would qualify for a 2D response, despite the 7 points. Improve it to xxxx Kxx Axx xx and it becomes 2S.
Fair enough, but I could not give partner a king because you had them all. Maybe QJ hearts would do it, bringing the hand to 8 points? Your hand only has 12 cards. xxxx QJx Axx Jxx is less than 50% in 5S. However, with a 4-3-3-3 I would not be looking for a major suit fit at all. xxxx QJx AJxx xx and 5S is relatively safe, going down about 12% of the time. But these are hands where you will be bidding 6S, not 5S, when partner shows one ace. Slam is less than 50%

If you play RKCB, you are better shape, bidding slam only when partner shows either two aces or one ace plus QS. Qxxx Qxx Axxx xx, for example, will make nearly all the time that spades are 3-2 or diamonds 3-3.
  #43  
Old 08-26-2016, 08:22 AM
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This thread clearly shows how much I have to learn about this wonderful game.
  #44  
Old 08-26-2016, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
This thread clearly shows how much I have to learn about this wonderful game.
Backing down from a debate and implying someone else has more knowledge? That's clearly non-standard for a message board and should have been alerted. I'm calling the director over.

  #45  
Old 08-26-2016, 11:42 AM
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Heh. Last night, I was playing Teams in a club that includes some national-class players and was delighted that we didn't come bottom.
  #46  
Old 08-29-2016, 05:05 PM
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Grrr...

I'm feeling aggrieved about one hand and disappointed with myself with another.

The first hand bidding went three passes, 1H (me), Double, 2H, Pass, 3D, Passed out. Partner had 4 hearts and 3 diamonds, leaving me in a 4-3 fit rather than a 4-4 fit. I had 18 points, partner 7. We went down 3. Grrr.

The second hand I'm sure the bidding was my fault, but I'm not sure where I went wrong. Partner opened 1H, I rebid 3D (showing 16+ points, strong suit), partner bid 3S, I bid 3NT, and it was passed out. Making all 7, for a plain bottom. I had S?x HA DAKxxxx CAJxx and partner had SAKxx HKQTxx Dxx CKQ. The lead was a club. The missing heart honour dropped and I made 2 Spade tricks, 5 Heart tricks, 2 Diamond tricks, and 4 Club tricks.
  #47  
Old 08-29-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
The first hand bidding went three passes, 1H (me), Double, 2H, Pass, 3D, Passed out. Partner had 4 hearts and 3 diamonds, leaving me in a 4-3 fit rather than a 4-4 fit. I had 18 points, partner 7. We went down 3. Grrr.
3D is 100% forcing. Shoot partner. Mind you, with 18 points, depending on what they were and whether you had a doubleton to add a distribution point, I might have just bid 4H with your hand.

Quote:
The second hand I'm sure the bidding was my fault, but I'm not sure where I went wrong. Partner opened 1H, I rebid 3D (showing 16+ points, strong suit), partner bid 3S, I bid 3NT, and it was passed out. Making all 7, for a plain bottom. I had S?x HA DAKxxxx CAJxx and partner had SAKxx HKQTxx Dxx CKQ. The lead was a club. The missing heart honour dropped and I made 2 Spade tricks, 5 Heart tricks, 2 Diamond tricks, and 4 Club tricks.
Partner's fault again. Assuming the "?" in spades is a small card, you have shown your hand - 16 points, good diamonds, not much more (or you would not bid 3NT). Partner has 17 high card points! Add that to your 16 and you want to be in slam. I would not have passed 3NT - I would have bid 6NT. That is the place you want to play - you can't rely on hearts coming in to make seven.

Having said that, I would not have bid 3D with your hand. While it is a good description of most of your hand (points & diamonds), you will lose the club suit. If partner's two small spades were two small clubs, 7C is the contract to be in yet you have not bid clubs at all.

I would start with 2D, planning to bid 3C next - both are forcing.
  #48  
Old 08-29-2016, 07:41 PM
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Agree with the above that pard's not on form there - hand 1 is just a failure to play bridge and hand 2 is playing bridge quite badly. It's a bad misfit, but looking at their hand after you've made a strong jump shift into diamonds then 6N has to have play.

It's a game of mistakes, and we all make them - but if your partner thinks it's OK to pass forcing bids like 3D in hand 1 then you need to have a bit of a sit down as it's just going to cause aggravation.
  #49  
Old 08-29-2016, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
Grrr...

I'm feeling aggrieved about one hand and disappointed with myself with another.

The first hand bidding went three passes, 1H (me), Double, 2H, Pass, 3D, Passed out. Partner had 4 hearts and 3 diamonds, leaving me in a 4-3 fit rather than a 4-4 fit. I had 18 points, partner 7. We went down 3. Grrr.
No way should partner have passed 3D. The bid could be several things, but it cannot be passed because you've already agreed hearts is trumps.

3D should be some kind of game try here. (Short suit, long suit, help suit, etc. -- you'd have to agree which you use.
  #50  
Old 08-30-2016, 11:47 AM
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When playing with a new partner (as is frequently the case online), one thing I always try to enforce is an agreement that changing suit during the bidding is ALWAYS forcing (for at least the next round, I mean - not necessarily to game). Without this convention you really struggle to find the best contract on a lot of hands. Although I must admit to forgetting this rule on one occasion, having made my partner agree to it. That was embarrassing, though partner took it with very good grace.
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