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  #451  
Old 08-06-2019, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove View Post
Diseases were definitely nerfed, but aside from that, are you sure you aren't just much better at the game now? My first run, I ran into many disasters--but they were almost always due to not foreseeing something. I almost ran out of food due to running out of dirt. I almost ran out of food again because my bristle blossoms overheated. My base as a whole overheated. Oxygen generation was stalled due to bad automation. I spread germs through my water supply. On and on. Also, I wasted a bunch of time on machine setups that didn't work. I didn't do a good job at maximizing efficiency via material selection and fast transportation. And of course, many of the updates broke some mechanism that I had been replying on (for instance, it used to be possible to convert petroleum to natural gas directly), so I had to deal with fallout from that.
Possibly. Then again, I haven't got to rockets ever, so there is still a lot of game I've never mastered.
  #452  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:23 PM
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You haven't lived until you've liquified hydrogen!

You should try steam rockets at the least. They're easy and sufficient for gathering isoresin (for supercoolant) and niobium (for thermium). These items make some builds significantly easier and higher performance.
  #453  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:23 AM
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You haven't lived until you've liquified hydrogen!

You should try steam rockets at the least. They're easy and sufficient for gathering isoresin (for supercoolant) and niobium (for thermium). These items make some builds significantly easier and higher performance.
Not quite there yet. I'm at the point where I've started scaling up my water and power production while starting to address potential heat issues. By base is comfortably located between two natural gas geysers and a steam geyser so resources shouldn't be a problem for the foreseeable future.
  #454  
Old 08-08-2019, 02:47 AM
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My heat exchangers are working beautifully--too well, in fact. Check out this gorgeous heat gradient. Icy-cold in the lower left, super hot in the upper left. Heat is exchanged between radiant gas pipes in 1x2 diamond blocks. The rest of the space is vacuum. It's important to separate the chunks like this--otherwise, the whole heat exchanger will kinda converge on one temperature, defeating the whole cross-flow arrangement.

But the one I'm using for the sour gas generator is working too well, as I mentioned. The hot ~540 C gas is heating up the incoming crude to >410 C, where it transforms from crude to petroleum. And unfortunately, even though they're both liquids, it breaks the piping when this happens. This seems like a bug to me--pipes carry a fixed mass per section, so there's no real reason why to can't transform from one liquid to another.

For better or worse, I have a solution. The vaporizer uses an aquatuner to generate the heat. It's the only reliable device--the tepidizer works (and well) until you reload your game (I had the same bug 8 months ago--weird). I didn't feel like rebuilding it each time, so instead I used a thermium aquatuner and let it get super hot. So I have a nice cool oil output. I can use this to cool the outgoing sour gas a bit (only down to 410, so that it won't overheat the incoming oil). Sorta annoying, but they, those are the kind of things the game throws at you. In any case, I'm generating a crap-ton of natural gas now. I'm sure I'll find a use for it.
  #455  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:55 AM
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I got my sour gas generator working well, but it seemed like it was using too much power--by base was just barely breaking even.

I realized that I was being wasteful with my aquatuner setup. It uses a fixed 1200 W when running, and changes the temperature by a fixed 14 C. But the heat capacity of different liquids varies dramatically--crude oil is only 1.69 DTU/C/g, while water is 4.18 and super coolant 8.44.

I had been using oil as a liquid since I had it easily available, but switching to water made it almost 2.5x more power efficient. And not just the 1200 W aquatuner, but the pump that drives it as well. It was going nearly full blast with oil, so maybe 1440 W continuous. Switching to water brings it down to maybe 600 W. Huge difference!

I need to gather more super coolant. That will double efficiency again. This does mean my plans for a base-wide cooling system need to be revised. Using petroleum for coolant would be a huge step back in power efficiency. Water would be ok, but doesn't get cold enough. And the fullerene I need for super coolant is hard to get in large quantities. However, I can build a two-stage coolant loop that chills the petroleum using a short loop of super coolant. That would only need a few hundred kg of super coolant, which I can manage.
  #456  
Old 08-08-2019, 01:24 PM
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I had a whole big post typed up about starting a new base after updating to launch update, but the hamsters ate it.

Executive summary: Frikkin Slimelung.

Also, steam geysers are neat except when there are two right next to the spawn and everything overheats in three turns, even before mealwood plants can grow.
  #457  
Old 08-08-2019, 04:18 PM
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Also, steam geysers are neat except when there are two right next to the spawn and everything overheats in three turns, even before mealwood plants can grow.
Oh, that is bad luck. Pretty sure I'd just reroll at that point. Part of the fun is working with the hand you're dealt--the different geyser types all have their different uses, and have to be dealt with in their own ways--but if they're overheating your crops right off the bat then you're always going to be fighting them.

I got pretty lucky with my geysers; 3 nat gas, 1 hydrogen, 3 cool steam, 2 chlorine, 2 gold, and a few others--but am missing some, like a hot steam vent or magma volcano. So, you win some and lose some.
  #458  
Old 08-08-2019, 08:02 PM
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Oh, that is bad luck. Pretty sure I'd just reroll at that point. Part of the fun is working with the hand you're dealt--the different geyser types all have their different uses, and have to be dealt with in their own ways--but if they're overheating your crops right off the bat then you're always going to be fighting them.

I got pretty lucky with my geysers; 3 nat gas, 1 hydrogen, 3 cool steam, 2 chlorine, 2 gold, and a few others--but am missing some, like a hot steam vent or magma volcano. So, you win some and lose some.
I've got a magma that I still haven't dug out yet. Is it worth it? Do you use it for steam? Is it something I should dig out ASAP so I start gathering its resources?
  #459  
Old 08-08-2019, 08:42 PM
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I'd say leave it for the time being. Magma is useful as an extreme heat source.

Off the top of my head, use one is for the oil->petroleum->sour gas->methane->natural gas process I've mentioned. Drop crude on hot magma and it goes to sour gas immediately. However, this is only useful if you have the rest of the pipeline in place. Also, without a volcano, magma is a non-renewable resource. It cools surprisingly quickly when used for sour gas cracking.

Another use is for regolith->rock conversion. This is something I've been thinking about as a very late-game thing. The asteroid has a finite quantity of rock and sand available, but an infinite amount of regolith. Surprisingly, because regolith has such a low heat capacity, it's possible to melt it into magma using much less energy than you get by cooling the resulting magma back down into igneous rock. Free energy, and gives a free source of rock (which can be made into sand).

The trouble of course is that the temperatures are very high and building an automated system that doesn't melt will be very tricky. I think some people have done it but I'm hoping to figure out a system on my own. I'm nowhere close to running out of these materials yet but I may go for it when I have nothing else to do.
  #460  
Old 08-11-2019, 04:55 PM
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I'm just about to pass the 100 hours played mark (I had about 30 hours in Early Access so about 70 on launch). I've made my first arguably successful base. It is ugly. Oh how it is ugly. But it is working. I have power, oxygen, food, etc.

I basically have two problems. One, everywhere outside my base core is cold. Really really cold as I'm playing on Rime. But all my bases before this failed due to heat, so I want to remove that aspect in effect for me. Cold is almost as challenging! There was a point where half my farms wouldn't grow due to heat!!

But man, what a great game. Klei knocked it out of the park and a few counties over in my opinion. Stellar. I wonder if we're going to get DLC like Dont' Starve? Certainyl ONI must have sold well? I hope so. I wonder what they will add if there are any DLC?
  #461  
Old 08-11-2019, 05:37 PM
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I'm just about to pass the 100 hours played mark (I had about 30 hours in Early Access so about 70 on launch). I've made my first arguably successful base. It is ugly. Oh how it is ugly. But it is working. I have power, oxygen, food, etc.

I basically have two problems. One, everywhere outside my base core is cold. Really really cold as I'm playing on Rime. But all my bases before this failed due to heat, so I want to remove that aspect in effect for me. Cold is almost as challenging! There was a point where half my farms wouldn't grow due to heat!!

But man, what a great game. Klei knocked it out of the park and a few counties over in my opinion. Stellar. I wonder if we're going to get DLC like Dont' Starve? Certainyl ONI must have sold well? I hope so. I wonder what they will add if there are any DLC?
How is cold challenging?

Steam Spy says ONI sold between 1 and 2 million copies https://steamspy.com/app/457140


ONI seems like it could be suitable for multiplayer. Trading and cooperation could be interesting. So would raiding/warfare. Warfare would pose an interesting challenge; Having many toons would be advantageous when fighting but more challenging the rest of the time. Weapons and armor could be onerous to make like the tactical equivalent of the atmosuit. You could dig your way through to other players' bases or launch rocket raids to other meteors. It would be like wars between ant colonies.

What did Don't Starve DLC add?

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 08-11-2019 at 05:41 PM.
  #462  
Old 08-11-2019, 08:00 PM
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I just made it to space for the first time.

Carbon dioxide problem?

What carbon dioxide problem?

...

You cannot make space have global warming right?
  #463  
Old 08-11-2019, 09:03 PM
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How is cold challenging?
Growing anything is very difficult. Maybe for somebody who is quite good at the game there are easy ways around this. I've tried stacking everything hot I can imagine next to farm tiles, and it might raise the temperature to 5 degrees. It sure does make industry a lot easier though.
  #464  
Old 08-11-2019, 10:21 PM
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I've tried stacking everything hot I can imagine next to farm tiles, and it might raise the temperature to 5 degrees. It sure does make industry a lot easier though.
The liquid tepidizer is by far the most efficient low-temperature heater. It needs to be immersed in water, but if you're looking for base heating it can't be beat. You'll need some basic automation to control the temperature, but aside from that it shouldn't be too hard to make a warm water bath in places that need heat. You can also place some tempshift plates to move the heat around.

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You cannot make space have global warming right?
I'm dumping a ton of CO2 into space as well. Polluted water, too. In fact I'm running out of places to put all my stuff. I have huge reservoirs of natural gas, hydrogen, oil, petroleum, water, polluted water, salt water, etc... and some of it I just can't use.

I wanted to be self-sufficient in dirt, which meant starting a Pip farm. Pips eat Arbor trees, which produce ridiculous amounts of lumber as a side effect. I figured I'd use the lumber in some ethanol distilleries... works great, and even produces more polluted dirt, but I'm producing ethanol at a way higher rate than I need. Plus more CO2 than I can easily pump out.
  #465  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:14 PM
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Send you're polluted water to me please! I have a severe water shortage. All the water is ice, and melting it is surprisingly difficult on Rime. Even the Aquatuner barely makes a dent in the ambient temperature (it will raise it to about 50 degrees for several seconds).

My entire base is powered by natural gas, which also puts out obscene amounts of carbon dioxide. Running into the lower levels had become nearly a suicide mission. Almost to the point where I considered making them passed an atmo suit checkpoint. Ahhh but beautiful boundless space. It can take all the CO2 I make with no difficulty, and no overpressure problems.

I *finally* found some oil. So I'll finally be able to make some plastics, and high pressure vents, amongst other things.

It does look like the base is going to starve. I guess I should prepare some grave sites. Fortunately starvation is a self correcting problem. (It is perhaps for the best that I never become a colony manager)

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 08-11-2019 at 11:14 PM.
  #466  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:16 PM
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I set up a liquid tepidizer. But it is late so I'll have to see if it solves my problem tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!
  #467  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:38 PM
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Just remember, the tepidizer needs some liquid to function--it can be anything, so if all your water is frozen, you can use some oil instead. It does almost nothing when not immersed (though it may look like it does). I'm not sure what the minimum liquid per tile is, but I'd use at least 200 kg.
  #468  
Old 08-11-2019, 11:46 PM
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BTW, the aquatuner just moves heat; it doesn't create it. But even if you had a place to dump your "cold", it's 1/10 as efficient as the tepidizer when running on water.
  #469  
Old 08-12-2019, 08:58 AM
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My entire base is powered by natural gas, which also puts out obscene amounts of carbon dioxide.
If you think NG is bad, wait till you try a wood burner.
  #470  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:13 PM
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I now have ~2500 kg of water. And ummmm 27.3 tons of polluted water.

I find this very funny for some reason.
  #471  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:15 PM
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Oh and the tepidizer hasn't made a tremendous different. On the other hand it is going to through regular piping. If I were to change to insulated where I don't want heat transfer, and radiant where I do I think I could heat things up better.

I'm making a reserve pool of polluted water that I'm going to use as my base heating system (I have 27 TONNES of it afterall, it may as well be useful for something).
  #472  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:34 PM
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Woot! Woot! All my secondary farms are now growing thanks to the power of hot pee.

...

Eww.
  #473  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:45 PM
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Anyway, to automate removing the salt from the Desalinator? I need the salt for the rust thingy. There's doesn't seem to be an empty errand.
  #474  
Old 08-12-2019, 07:57 PM
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My duplicants have found a way to get to a requires atmo suit zone. And I cannot find the opening. I feel like that scene in Aliens. If we repair the barricades here and here, seal off these air ducts, then they should have no way in.

Burt in particular seems to have death wish.
  #475  
Old 08-12-2019, 08:45 PM
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My duplicants have found a way to get to a requires atmo suit zone. And I cannot find the opening.
Pause the game, pick a dupe from inside your base, hit "move" and point to a spot outside your base. It'll show a white line as the path that the dupe takes. If you don't see a line (could be an option I selected), just unpause and follow the dupe as he goes around.

I've had no shortage of sneaky dupes finding their way around my defenses and getting sick as a result...
  #476  
Old 08-12-2019, 09:22 PM
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The solution ended up being much simpler. I forgot I had moved the atmo checkpoint. The old one had been destroyed but the new one had not been built. Oops.

But a great tip!!
  #477  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:25 PM
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For the first time in BKB history, I have STEAM POWER!!!!!!! Woohoo!

It took me several attempts. Including watch a lead steam turbine become insta molten lead (I clicked the wrong button, I meant to make it out iron). But I have steam power. It isn't very efficient. Only 400 W but pretty good for my first attempt I think.

P.s. - I know I can go look out optimal configurations and such but part of the joy for me is learning how to do it. I don't mind advice though of course, but not specific layouts.
  #478  
Old 08-13-2019, 05:34 PM
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Awesome! I agree that learning is the fun part.

When you're feeling ambitious, try making a closed-loop steam system. Create a lower chamber with some water in it. Make one side out of metal--that's where you feed the input heat. Make the rest out of insulated tiles. Plop a steam turbine on top and dump the waste water right back into the chamber. Drop in some tempshift plates to spread the heat around.

Now, you have a system that can "eat" a very large amount of heat. It has to get hot to start working, but that's no problem if your source is, for example, a steel aquatuner. Drop it next to your hotplate and make a little oil bath and your aquatuner can run forever without any net heat output.
  #479  
Old 08-13-2019, 06:03 PM
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Awesome! I agree that learning is the fun part.

When you're feeling ambitious, try making a closed-loop steam system. Create a lower chamber with some water in it. Make one side out of metal--that's where you feed the input heat. Make the rest out of insulated tiles. Plop a steam turbine on top and dump the waste water right back into the chamber. Drop in some tempshift plates to spread the heat around.

Now, you have a system that can "eat" a very large amount of heat. It has to get hot to start working, but that's no problem if your source is, for example, a steel aquatuner. Drop it next to your hotplate and make a little oil bath and your aquatuner can run forever without any net heat output.
Interesting. I'll have to try that sometime. Currently, I'm using a magma flow.

I'm making good use of radiant pipes filled with ummm yeah.... anyway, so I now have a tertiary farm going!

Some parts of my base are almost getting to hot. Which given how hard it was to get them about 5 degrees initially is pretty shocking to me.
  #480  
Old 08-13-2019, 07:07 PM
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I realized I had a problem when I checked on my molten slickster ranch and found it abandoned. The temperature above my oil pool was too hot for molten slicksters. All the equipment down there, made from steal, was broken.

Soon afterward, my steel liquid pump broke from overheating.

The problem, it turned out, was that the abyssalite layer separating the pool from the underlying magma wasn't complete: there was a stretch of about 20 tiles made of coal, igneous, and other conductive materials. That stretch had heated up to around 700, and was happily conducting that heat to the oil pool.

The first solution was a rushed turbine room. I found one tiny corner of the oil pool that was at like 269, barely cool enough to sustain a steel pump; and I pumped oil from that corner through the steam room, cooling it down like 60 in one pass and giving me free power.

If that was good, I reasoned, three more turbines would be even better! So I set up another, much larger, steam room. And after plenty of trial and error and some suboptimum choices, I've got four turbines running almost nonstop.

The oil goes from about 260 down to about 140, after heating up all the steam. Then I send it through some radiant pipes in the air above that base, cooling the air down enough that I can repair the molten slickster ranch and heating the oil back up to about 210. That drips back into the oil pool.

It's self-sustaining at this point, I think, granting me a little over 3K power constantly (until I manage to cool the underlying magma off, which should I think take awhile). And in time I'll rebuild the molten slickster ranch.

Now, off to figure out how to make a goddamned rocket.
  #481  
Old 08-14-2019, 12:20 AM
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Cool. Yeah, steam turbines are awesome. Free cooling and free energy!

Extremely mild space-related spoiler, which you may be aware of already:
SPOILER:
Once you collect a bit of niobium from space missions, you can start building things that survive just about any temperature. Refine niobium into thermium to get a +900 C temperature threshold instead of steel's +200 C. Also, you can refine thermium back into niobium, but at a 20x ratio, so you only need a tiny bit to get started. I think you may need solid rocket boosters + the steam rocket to send a cargo mission, though.
  #482  
Old 08-14-2019, 02:47 AM
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Definitely my rarest Steam achievement. In fact, ONI is taking up most of my rare achievement slots.
  #483  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:10 AM
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Definitely my rarest Steam achievement. In fact, ONI is taking up most of my rare achievement slots.
I wonder if it'll end up being your most-played game. I'm glad you like it.

I didn't expect the thread to get to 500 posts. I guess it's a pretty deep game that explores what only video games can do. I had an idea for making a game like this but now it's a non-starter given how well it's been done.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 08-14-2019 at 06:13 AM.
  #484  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:24 AM
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I realized I had a problem when I checked on my molten slickster ranch and found it abandoned. The temperature above my oil pool was too hot for molten slicksters. All the equipment down there, made from steal, was broken.

Soon afterward, my steel liquid pump broke from overheating.

The problem, it turned out, was that the abyssalite layer separating the pool from the underlying magma wasn't complete: there was a stretch of about 20 tiles made of coal, igneous, and other conductive materials. That stretch had heated up to around 700, and was happily conducting that heat to the oil pool.

The first solution was a rushed turbine room. I found one tiny corner of the oil pool that was at like 269, barely cool enough to sustain a steel pump; and I pumped oil from that corner through the steam room, cooling it down like 60 in one pass and giving me free power.

If that was good, I reasoned, three more turbines would be even better! So I set up another, much larger, steam room. And after plenty of trial and error and some suboptimum choices, I've got four turbines running almost nonstop.

The oil goes from about 260 down to about 140, after heating up all the steam. Then I send it through some radiant pipes in the air above that base, cooling the air down enough that I can repair the molten slickster ranch and heating the oil back up to about 210. That drips back into the oil pool.

It's self-sustaining at this point, I think, granting me a little over 3K power constantly (until I manage to cool the underlying magma off, which should I think take awhile). And in time I'll rebuild the molten slickster ranch.

Now, off to figure out how to make a goddamned rocket.
Love it! What a great story made possible by a great game. I totally understand what you're talking about in this, even though it didn't happen to me. Which is awesome.

There's *always* something breaking down, that needs fine tuning, overflow, overheating, overcooling (sigh), or needs progress in ONI.

I've decided to restart my base. Even though it is going well it is kind of bursting at the seams now. I've learnt so much from this base that needs to go into the next design.

Next time I will share the seed I'm using in case somebody wants to play on the same map (share you good seeds too!)
  #485  
Old 08-14-2019, 06:32 AM
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I wonder if it'll end up being your most-played game. I'm glad you like it.

I didn't expect the thread to get to 500 posts. I guess it's a pretty deep game that explores what only video games can do. I had an idea for making a game like this but now it's a non-starter given how well it's been done.
There's a fair chance it'll become my most played game, but it is a tough crown to take. The current holder is Stellaris with nearly 1,000 hours. Not including subscription games like World of Warcraft. I'm currently at 110 hours, which makes it my #5 game on Steam (I switch games a lot). It needs 258 hours to take the #4 stop (Civilization 5).
  #486  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:58 AM
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Had a bit of a close call. I've been operating steadily with a dozen Dupes for like 500 cycles with only about 6 deaths. And I've got a pretty good base powered mostly by natural gas, hydrogen burned off my electrolysis operations and a coal backup generators. I have a good food mix and generally have about 100,000+ calories on reserve. Even have a deep well for petroleum refining, as I'm a firm believer that the ultimate purpose of my Dupes is to make the world's plastic.

But what I've been finding is that the two natural gas geysers powering my base tend to go dormant about the same time. Power level drops, by recursive aquatuner loop water cooling system backs up and no longer cools my supply of geyser water, my farms heat up and crops die. At one point, my Dupes were barely making ends meet.

But, in my efforts to reach the surface, I found a hydrogen geyser, so it's nice to have another source of steady fuel.


Also I finally figured out that my Dupes kept catching Zombie Spores from the Sporechid I planted in the main hall. So note to self - learn more about plants.
  #487  
Old 08-14-2019, 01:00 PM
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I wonder if it'll end up being your most-played game. I'm glad you like it.
I definitely appreciate you starting the thread! I may not have run across it otherwise.

It's currently in my number 2 slot, after... yes, Kerbal Space Program. My current top 5:
Kerbal Space Program: 743 hours
Oxygen Not Included: 469 hours
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim: 426 hours
X3: Terran Conflict: 364 hours
Factorio: 306 hours

For most of these, the hours figure is a bit inflated. When trying to puzzle out the solution to a problem, I'll often just leave the game up while I walk away to eat or do something else for a while. I find that solutions often come to me more easily when I'm not directly thinking about the problems.
  #488  
Old 08-14-2019, 05:44 PM
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I'm about the same at 498 hours for ONI. That's nothing compared with my top 2 games:
Space Engineers: 2633
Cities Skylines: 1935

But like Dr Strangelove, these are both games I might leave running while I go do something else. I also don't have a whole lot of other games I play regularly.

Surprisingly, I've played DayZ for 368 hours. That game it feels like I play for 45 minutes, get bored and then turn it off. Then again, do that regularly over 7 years of "early access" and I guess it adds up.

RimWorld, I only played 70 hours, but I think that's because ONI took over my lust for managing semi-autonomous drones.
  #489  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:00 PM
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I started my new base on Rime with seed 1061045440.
  #490  
Old 08-14-2019, 09:02 PM
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This game I'm going to try to build more service tunnels. I think service tunnels will really help with a lot of issues with the last base.
  #491  
Old 08-16-2019, 04:41 AM
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I've optimized my cooler a bit more. And piping.

It's totally self-contained, aside from power, and uses only a bit more power than breakeven. Running super coolant, it's able to run the steam turbine full blast, and with maybe a 70% duty cycle. Really it's only the pumps that need power since the turbine pays for the aquatuner almost exactly.

The steam chamber contains the aquatuner sitting in a small pool of petroleum to keep it a consistent temperature. Above that is the steam, which gets recycled back into the chamber. The turbine is cooled by the super coolant--it doesn't steal much cooling power, but it needs something, and wheezeworts are a pain. Using this method, dupes don't have to get involved, and I can lock the whole thing in an insulated chamber.

The gas pump is there only to perform an initial pumpdown to vacuum. It doesn't cause a problems just leaving it in there.

I'm running oil through the bottom of the coldplate--I'm having steam problems in my lower levels and need to cool off a veritable lake of oil. It's able to cool oil by ~50 C at 10 kg/s, so it's going reasonably quick. I just want to bring the lake down from about 110 C to 95 C so that it doesn't make steam that goes everywhere. But anyway, one could run water or oxygen or anything else through the metal plates.
  #492  
Old 08-18-2019, 12:23 PM
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So somehow I brought a 2000oF piece of iron into my kitchen storage bin and in started melting everything and burning any dupes who tried to pick it up or even enter the room. I ended up having to "China syndrome" it out of by base by removing the floor under it.

I'm surprised they haven't made fires and explosions a thing.
  #493  
Old 08-18-2019, 01:42 PM
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I'm surprised they haven't made fires and explosions a thing.
I doubt it still works (because the root cause was bugs), but you could fake a steam explosion by superheating the coolant of a refinery that had a broken output pipe, and then deconstructing it.
  #494  
Old 08-18-2019, 03:35 PM
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I doubt it still works (because the root cause was bugs), but you could fake a steam explosion by superheating the coolant of a refinery that had a broken output pipe, and then deconstructing it.
I had exactly that happen to me. In fact, on my previous game, I never could get rid of that refinery. It's still filled with something like 10 tons of water at 1700 C. I'd tried deconstructing it but it slags everything. To get rid of it I think I'd need several layers of insulation, with maybe just one square built from metal so that I can slowly drain the heat away.
  #495  
Old 08-19-2019, 08:21 PM
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I've been splitting time between this, NMS, and futzing with Skyrim mods, so I haven't gotten as far as you guys.

I did finally get ladders all the way up to the point where I can see space, and ladders down to near the bottom. And I discovered that I apparently didn't fully understand ladders.

My up ladders work great, because I was constantly having to build baffles to prevent polluted water from dumping straight down into the base.

My down ladder started out as a shaft straight down from the middle of my base all the way to the first deep oil pocket it hit. This has turned out to be a very bad idea. Apparently, dupes will drop whatever they're carrying if they can't hold their breath any more, and there's a lot of unbreathable air around that big ladder. Now the bottom of the oil pit has a huge pile of resources, and my dupes were spending 90% of their time going all the way down, grabbing something, climbing back up, running out of air, dropping what they were carrying, lather, rinse, repeat.

I got to this point with everyone fairly healthy and sane, mostly by not training anyone to too high of a level and using early-game equipment. Now, however, I'm at the point where I can't research more stuff without the higher level stations. Plus, I think I need to start building out nicer accommodations to get morale high enough to support higher level training. Oh, and better food. I'm not going to be able to power all that on a couple of coal power plants and a single oil powered generator. It's a pretty razor-thin margin of resources I have to play around with.
  #496  
Old 08-19-2019, 08:43 PM
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Apparently, dupes will drop whatever they're carrying if they can't hold their breath any more, and there's a lot of unbreathable air around that big ladder.
Yeah, that's a super-annoying part of the game. They'll drop what they're carrying for other reasons, too:
- the thing is too hot
- it's the end of their shift
- the job that they were carrying stuff for become inaccessible, even for just a moment

It definitely means that the bottoms of ladders tends to pile up with cruft. That said, you can prevent a lot of it with atmo suits, once you get there.
  #497  
Old 08-19-2019, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by buckgully View Post
I've been splitting time between this, NMS, and futzing with Skyrim mods, so I haven't gotten as far as you guys.

I did finally get ladders all the way up to the point where I can see space, and ladders down to near the bottom. And I discovered that I apparently didn't fully understand ladders.

My up ladders work great, because I was constantly having to build baffles to prevent polluted water from dumping straight down into the base.

My down ladder started out as a shaft straight down from the middle of my base all the way to the first deep oil pocket it hit. This has turned out to be a very bad idea. Apparently, dupes will drop whatever they're carrying if they can't hold their breath any more, and there's a lot of unbreathable air around that big ladder. Now the bottom of the oil pit has a huge pile of resources, and my dupes were spending 90% of their time going all the way down, grabbing something, climbing back up, running out of air, dropping what they were carrying, lather, rinse, repeat.
Sometimes you gotta stop dupes from being, well, dupes. Either deconstruct two consecutive ladders, or else deconstruct one and build a wall in its place. Just be careful that everyone's on the up-side of the ladder when you do this.

Then spend awhile getting your base in good shape. There's a guide I've recommended in this thread, but I'll recommend it again: Guide to surviving the early game. There are also guides to the mid-game and late-game.

Rather than use them as walkthroughs, check them out for incredibly useful advice about how elements interact, awesomely efficient builds, and general philosophy of play. Every time I build something from one of the guides, I learn at least one key new principle of play.
  #498  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:19 PM
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I had my most successful base. I lasted about 300 cycles, before I screwed up and didn't notice that I had no dirt left. My farms failed, and everybody starved. Bah! I probably could have recovered except I goofed expanding my lettuce farms and flooded the whole thing.

I *learnt* so much in that last run. This next base will be better still!

A question. The outliner seems to "lie". For example, it will routinely say "You have no algae" but I can see some lying around. Why does it report that I have zero of something when I quite obviously have some? For example, in my last game for a while it was reporting I had 0 tonnes of salt water. I had two HUGE reservoirs of salt water. Easily 40 tonnes or more. Anybody know how the logic of the outliner works?

Last edited by BeepKillBeep; 08-27-2019 at 08:19 PM.
  #499  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:23 PM
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Anybody know how the logic of the outliner works?
First, the materials have to be accessible. If a chunk of sand fell and blocked the path to some stuff laying on the ground, it won't appear in the list. Or if a door is locked, or there's no ladder, or an empty atmo suit station, etc.

Second, it doesn't count liquids or gases (or unmined solids) just out in the wild. That includes storage reservoirs. It'll show stuff that you've bottled up but not if it's just sitting in a vat.
  #500  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:05 PM
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Here’s an article about AE getting nerfed:
https://massivelyop.com/2019/05/01/c...ter-transfers/

It’s almost 4 months old though. So they might have eased up on the nerfs since then.
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