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  #301  
Old 06-11-2017, 06:57 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
"In this vein" - really? He's a pussy because who couldn't bench press 185 lbs when he was 18-19 old rookie? I realize weight-lifting is one of your things, but that is a sad, sad notion. First of all that whether or not you're pussy is measured by your ability to bench press a certain weight. Second of all that it has any bearing at all on anything - Durant is one of the greatest wings who has ever played the game, essentially a HoF lock.

Disparaging him for choosing to go to Warriors is understandable ( I think it is weak sauce, but I get it ). Calling him by inference a pussy because, you know - there was that one time who couldn't lift a lot of weight, is just pathetic.

I'd kinda expect better from you.
I really don't understand why someone gets criticized for deciding to switch employers, considering people who watch the game presumably do the same thing all the time, whatever their careers may be. Software engineers go from Apple to Google, or from Google to Facebook because they feel like it's a better fit or because they'll get paid more. So effing what? Sure, I don't expect the Thunder's team, management, or fanbase to like it, but I do expect that they'll eventually get over it at some point. I think there's a hidden element of racism in some of the exaggerated reactions to basketball players switching teams, as though the players are like slaves who are beholden to their masters. People might scoff at that notion, but that mentality bubbled up to the surface a few years ago with revelations about Donald Sterling.

As far as KD not being able to bench press 185, who cares? I have no idea how much Shaquille O'Neal could actually bench, but there's such a thing as having natural athletic strength and power, and KD has natural, raw strength. Durant as 6'10" and weighs probably 245, and he has exceptional quickness for a big guy. I'm guessing you wouldn't want to be standing in his way to the rim.

Last edited by asahi; 06-11-2017 at 06:58 AM.
  #302  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:14 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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Oh for fucks sake. We root for a bunch of guys who are paid millions of dollars to play for our cities that have no real actual connection with us, but we've been fed the idea that they're "our guys", not just some mercenaries that have nothing to do with you. The whole premise of following a sports team requires that the entity you're following has more meaning to you than just being some other guy's business.

So when people break that premise, when it's clear they're just mercenaries who don't give a fuck about anything, it makes it harder to feel any connection to a sports team. If we didn't consider any team "our guys", why would we even care to watch?

Racism? Slavery? For fucks sake. Do you not think this sort of judgment happens in hockey or soccer or other predominantly non-black sports? It's totally unique to black players? Give me a fucking break.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 06-11-2017 at 07:15 AM.
  #303  
Old 06-11-2017, 07:51 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
Oh for fucks sake. We root for a bunch of guys who are paid millions of dollars to play for our cities that have no real actual connection with us, but we've been fed the idea that they're "our guys", not just some mercenaries that have nothing to do with you. The whole premise of following a sports team requires that the entity you're following has more meaning to you than just being some other guy's business.

So when people break that premise, when it's clear they're just mercenaries who don't give a fuck about anything, it makes it harder to feel any connection to a sports team. If we didn't consider any team "our guys", why would we even care to watch?

Racism? Slavery? For fucks sake. Do you not think this sort of judgment happens in hockey or soccer or other predominantly non-black sports? It's totally unique to black players? Give me a fucking break.
Of course it happens in other sports, but I don't think it happens to the same degree.
  #304  
Old 06-11-2017, 03:29 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
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Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
So when people break that premise, when it's clear they're just mercenaries who don't give a fuck about anything, it makes it harder to feel any connection to a sports team. If we didn't consider any team "our guys", why would we even care to watch?
Why indeed. I'll make an argument in defense of Durant and athletes like him in a minute ( bearing in mind that my opinion is biased considering where I live ), but at heart of things this unfortunately is reality. Team management dispose of players ruthlessly, as just happened with most of the Warriors bench last season, including fan favorites like Speights and Barbosa. Does Warriors management care that one of those guys had set down roots and wanted to play the rest of his career here? They do not. At the very best they'll try to accommodate someone like Bogut by giving him a choice of teams to be shipped to. But the vast majority of the time they don't even get that option - they're just gone.

For that matter fans are always talking about such and such player that sucks and should be traded. Do fans give a crap if the back-bencher on their hated list has set down roots and wants to stay in the community and play on a team they like? They do not . They want their asses gone to make way for whatever fantasy acquisition that fan is dreaming of.

What you're really thinking of is superstars. Untradeable ( until they get old and used up ) guys that are the core of a franchise. Those guys are somehow supposed to be loyal to the very end, nevermind their buddy just got traded to the 76'ers last season for a handful of magic beans. But why should they, when they are treated as a disposable commodity( granted a lavishly paid and pampered one )? No, it is a mercenary world and it starts at the top. If the player doesn't look out for his best interest( and not just in terms of $$ ), who will? Thinking otherwise is a quaint fantasy. That said...

High character guys like Durant nonetheless often seem to do their level best to integrate into and support the local community. I mean Durant spent eight years in Oklahoma and as far as I can tell he supported that community every step of the way, donating his money and time, investing in local business. You really can't ask for more IMO. I suspect Steph Curry, all thing being equal, would rather be in South Carolina. But he has invested in the Bay Area community likewise. Heck most or all of those guys have, to greater or lesser extents.

Now I totally get the "he went to the team that beat him to get an easier ring" argument. Doesn't bother me because of my own biases and I honestly think he is better suited to this style of play than Oklahoma's system with ball-dominant Westbrook. I don't think it warrants contempt, but I get it.

But mercenary? Man they all have to be, because that is how they are treated by the owners.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 06-11-2017 at 03:31 PM.
  #305  
Old 06-12-2017, 05:42 PM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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I'm gonna call it now, Warriors by 20+ tonight.
  #306  
Old 06-12-2017, 05:46 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
Why indeed. I'll make an argument in defense of Durant and athletes like him in a minute ( bearing in mind that my opinion is biased considering where I live ), but at heart of things this unfortunately is reality. Team management dispose of players ruthlessly, as just happened with most of the Warriors bench last season, including fan favorites like Speights and Barbosa. Does Warriors management care that one of those guys had set down roots and wanted to play the rest of his career here? They do not. At the very best they'll try to accommodate someone like Bogut by giving him a choice of teams to be shipped to. But the vast majority of the time they don't even get that option - they're just gone.

For that matter fans are always talking about such and such player that sucks and should be traded. Do fans give a crap if the back-bencher on their hated list has set down roots and wants to stay in the community and play on a team they like? They do not . They want their asses gone to make way for whatever fantasy acquisition that fan is dreaming of.

What you're really thinking of is superstars. Untradeable ( until they get old and used up ) guys that are the core of a franchise. Those guys are somehow supposed to be loyal to the very end, nevermind their buddy just got traded to the 76'ers last season for a handful of magic beans. But why should they, when they are treated as a disposable commodity( granted a lavishly paid and pampered one )? No, it is a mercenary world and it starts at the top. If the player doesn't look out for his best interest( and not just in terms of $$ ), who will? Thinking otherwise is a quaint fantasy. That said...

High character guys like Durant nonetheless often seem to do their level best to integrate into and support the local community. I mean Durant spent eight years in Oklahoma and as far as I can tell he supported that community every step of the way, donating his money and time, investing in local business. You really can't ask for more IMO. I suspect Steph Curry, all thing being equal, would rather be in South Carolina. But he has invested in the Bay Area community likewise. Heck most or all of those guys have, to greater or lesser extents.

Now I totally get the "he went to the team that beat him to get an easier ring" argument. Doesn't bother me because of my own biases and I honestly think he is better suited to this style of play than Oklahoma's system with ball-dominant Westbrook. I don't think it warrants contempt, but I get it.

But mercenary? Man they all have to be, because that is how they are treated by the owners.
Very well said. My thoughts almost exactly. I don't blame KD at all. Or LeBron's decision, hell I knew he wasn't going to choose the Hawks so I didn't even watch. Hell I wouldn't choose the Hawks now! And I've loved them all my life.

I guess I'll head home early to catch the game. 'Cause, after tonight, there won't be any basketball for a few months.
  #307  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:02 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by G0sp3l View Post
Very well said. My thoughts almost exactly. I don't blame KD at all. Or LeBron's decision, hell I knew he wasn't going to choose the Hawks so I didn't even watch. Hell I wouldn't choose the Hawks now! And I've loved them all my life.

I guess I'll head home early to catch the game. 'Cause, after tonight, there won't be any basketball for a few months.
Football training camps start in a month. That'll get me through until the start of the season.

Since JaVale McGee's movie opens on Thursday, which would be the night of Game 6, I'm going to make the outlandish prediction that he goes off for a double-double, including a smackdown block of James, after which he yells "ALL EYEZ ON ME!"
  #308  
Old 06-12-2017, 06:21 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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Football training camps start in a month. That'll get me through until the start of the season.

Since JaVale McGee's movie opens on Thursday, which would be the night of Game 6, I'm going to make the outlandish prediction that he goes off for a double-double, including a smackdown block of James, after which he yells "ALL EYEZ ON ME!"
He might get a double-double, I love LeBron, but it's going to be garbage time from the 3rd quarter own. Ian Clark and the rest may get into double figures themselves.
  #309  
Old 06-12-2017, 07:11 PM
magnusblitz magnusblitz is offline
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Durant leaving OKC is just delayed karma for taking away the Supersonics.
  #310  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:03 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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KD is freakin unguardable! If Russ had been willing to pass the ball LAST year OKC might have beat the Warriors.
  #311  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:25 PM
DCnDC DCnDC is offline
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I kinda want the Cavs to win, if only because this wouldn't be the last game of the season. I can't make myself care about baseball anymore and it's a long summer.
  #312  
Old 06-12-2017, 11:35 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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I kinda want the Cavs to win, if only because this wouldn't be the last game of the season. I can't make myself care about baseball anymore and it's a long summer.
Same boat. I stopped caring about baseball years ago. Football and basketball are the only sports I follow now. I'm starting to lose interest in football as well, honestly.
  #313  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:01 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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That's all she wrote. I thought Cleveland might make it a game when they were up something like 10 points, but the Warriors ripped off one of their runs to go up 10 going in to the half, and only because J.R. Smith went back-to-back Superman from behind the arc for 6 points right before the buzzer. The entire second half just seemed...incidental? Preordained? I can't find the word, but it was over, they just had to finish out the game.

Am I the only one annoyed by the camera following LeBron ALL the way back to the locker room? Damn, give the guy some peace. The press conference is gonna be torture enough.
  #314  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:37 AM
FoieGrasIsEvil FoieGrasIsEvil is offline
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LeBron is the most infuriating "GOAT" player I've ever seen. I don't like either team but was rooting for a continuation of the series, like many I presume. For fuck's sake LeBron, QUIT DISHING in the 3rd and 4th quarters of games when you've already driven most of the way to the basket! Seriously! For being noted as the strongest, bestest player EVAH he sure isn't dominant in the paint. I was SCREAMING at the TV....he didn't listen, sadly.
  #315  
Old 06-13-2017, 08:29 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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That's all she wrote. I thought Cleveland might make it a game when they were up something like 10 points, but the Warriors ripped off one of their runs to go up 10 going in to the half, and only because J.R. Smith went back-to-back Superman from behind the arc for 6 points right before the buzzer. The entire second half just seemed...incidental? Preordained? I can't find the word, but it was over, they just had to finish out the game.

Am I the only one annoyed by the camera following LeBron ALL the way back to the locker room? Damn, give the guy some peace. The press conference is gonna be torture enough.
Yep, this is what happens when you play the Warriors. They can score 15-21 points in just 7 or 8 trips up the floor. Suddenly a 4 point lead becomes a 10-15 point deficit and there's just nothing the opposition can do about it. The Warriors can score reliably from so many different parts of the floor that they just become impossible to stop at stretches. The Cavs started the game with a good defensive effort, disrupting passing lanes and the rhythm of the Warriors, but they collapsed in the 2nd quarter. I don't know if they really could have stopped some of the scoring. The Cavs managed to keep pace with the Warriors but that last scoring barrage mid-way through the 4th wore the Cavs out.

Some might wonder why Lebron didn't just keep the ball but that reminds me of earlier in his career when he had a tendency to put the ball on the floor and lose the possession trying to go into traffic. He's better when he can get the ball movement going, get other players going, and make defenders aware that scoring can come from other players. But the other guys have to step up when it matters most. I think the Cavs just ran out of gas. Too many weapons on this Warriors team.
  #316  
Old 06-13-2017, 08:42 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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And now that NHL and NBA are now both completely done, it's pretty much the slow baseball season. I know there are no important games on from June to September but I occasionally enjoy catching a game and drinking a beer on a summer night while watching an odd MLB game. Sorry if this is off-topic.

Back on topic, NBA draft is coming up. Will be interesting to see what the Celtics do.
  #317  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:22 AM
Human Action Human Action is offline
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Thanks, Kevin Durant, for the least interesting postseason in ten years. I know you wanted a championship and didn't want to have to work very hard for it, but goddamn, this in an entertainment product. Think of the rest of us.


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Originally Posted by FoieGrasIsEvil View Post
LeBron is the most infuriating "GOAT" player I've ever seen. I don't like either team but was rooting for a continuation of the series, like many I presume. For fuck's sake LeBron, QUIT DISHING in the 3rd and 4th quarters of games when you've already driven most of the way to the basket! Seriously! For being noted as the strongest, bestest player EVAH he sure isn't dominant in the paint. I was SCREAMING at the TV....he didn't listen, sadly.
As we saw in game 4, the only way the Cavs were going to win is by making a ton of 3s, and an open 3 off the catch is the best shot in basketball. Lebron knows that, and plays accordingly.
  #318  
Old 06-13-2017, 09:29 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
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I briefly saw the post game show last night, and the announcer said something like "And it was such a challenge, for Kevin Durant to come to this team that was already great, already winning, and adjust to be able to fit in there" or something really stupid like that.

Yes, the hardest road.
  #319  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:24 AM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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I briefly saw the post game show last night, and the announcer said something like "And it was such a challenge, for Kevin Durant to come to this team that was already great, already winning, and adjust to be able to fit in there" or something really stupid like that.

Yes, the hardest road.
That is freaking hilarious.
  #320  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:33 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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I don't have a problem with free agency and 'Super Teams' -- they don't always work out as planned anyway. There's nothing wrong with what Durant did by going to Golden State.
  #321  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:41 AM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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The team that made the most 3 pointers won each game. And that is basically what the NBA is now. The Warriors have probably 3 of the best 5 shooters in the game, and each of those 3 can do other things, too. Not like Kyle Korver, who is not just a one trick pony, but actually quite bad in all other aspects of the game except shooting.

I heard Collin Cowherd yesterday propose a 3 point line that, from its point in the center, extends straight into the sideline. Or perhaps a mild arc that ends on the sideline at the bench area. This eliminates the corner 3, which is usually the most open 3 point shot. At first it sounds dumb, but after watching the game last night, and reflecting on this past season, I'm not so sure.
  #322  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:43 AM
Bullitt Bullitt is online now
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That is freaking hilarious.
Some people just won't stop crying, not for a while anyway.
  #323  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:46 AM
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The team that made the most 3 pointers won each game. And that is basically what the NBA is now. The Warriors have probably 3 of the best 5 shooters in the game, and each of those 3 can do other things, too. Not like Kyle Korver, who is not just a one trick pony, but actually quite bad in all other aspects of the game except shooting.

I heard Collin Cowherd yesterday propose a 3 point line that, from its point in the center, extends straight into the sideline. Or perhaps a mild arc that ends on the sideline at the bench area. This eliminates the corner 3, which is usually the most open 3 point shot. At first it sounds dumb, but after watching the game last night, and reflecting on this past season, I'm not so sure.
That plays right into Curry's strengths. The farther back the line is, the fewer players can hit from there. But Curry can hit it.
  #324  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:03 PM
borschevsky borschevsky is offline
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Now that they have all the tracking tech in NBA arenas, scoring should be on a gradient rather than a discrete 3-point line. Currently the 3-point line at the top of the key is 23.75 feet, so round that to 25 feet. The value for any made basket should be:

2 + ( 0.04 * DistanceInFeet )

So a 25-foot shot is worth 3. A corner "3" would be worth a bit less. Curry can shoot his bombs for 4 points if he wants.

  #325  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:13 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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I'm not as down on the league as a lot of people. For me, the season is more than JUST who wins the championship, I enjoy watching basketball, I've even watched the WNBA.

The Warriors will have a couple or three good years, the league will adjust then there'll be another round of crying about how it sucks now. The commentators and ESPN seem to forget that there are people alive that watched the NBA in the Magic years and the Jordan years. There were just as many suck teams then, there were just as many bad calls and bullshit fouls as well. I prefer this style to the "thump-and-bump" and "bad-boys" and nightly muggings and assaults that went on then.
  #326  
Old 06-13-2017, 12:28 PM
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I don't have a problem with free agency and 'Super Teams' -- they don't always work out as planned anyway. There's nothing wrong with what Durant did by going to Golden State.
I'm not going to moralize his choice, but it destroyed a contender and turned a superteam into a hyperteam, that won the title with comical ease, and no memorable moments. He definitely made the league less interesting to follow.
  #327  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:24 PM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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So at this point does anyone give a shit about the regular season awards anymore? Seems like a terribly dumb move by the NBA to wait to announce them until after the finals.
  #328  
Old 06-13-2017, 02:57 PM
That Don Guy That Don Guy is offline
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I really don't understand why someone gets criticized for deciding to switch employers, considering people who watch the game presumably do the same thing all the time, whatever their careers may be. Software engineers go from Apple to Google, or from Google to Facebook because they feel like it's a better fit or because they'll get paid more. So effing what?
The difference is, you don't pay, what is the going rate now, $200 plus $40 to park the car (seriously, that's the charge to park in Oakland for a Warriors game) for a family of four to see Apple or Google engineers working.
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Sure, I don't expect the Thunder's team, management, or fanbase to like it, but I do expect that they'll eventually get over it at some point.
Tell a large chunk of Edmonton that after Gretzky left for Los Angeles.
  #329  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:08 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
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Tell a large chunk of Edmonton that after Gretzky left for Los Angeles.
Are they over it now?
  #330  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:29 PM
Barkis is Willin' Barkis is Willin' is offline
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Nobody wants an inevitable outcome in sports. This Warriors championship was as close to that as it gets. Even MJ never breezed through a postseason with that kind of ease. That's why people don't like KD's decision to go there. I don't hold it against him personally, but I am bummed that this NBA season and postseason was so damn predictable. It's true that his decision to go to GS made the NBA, especially the playoffs, a little less fun to follow.
  #331  
Old 06-13-2017, 03:57 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Eh, the Eastern Conference playoffs weren't exactly prime entertainment in any series the Cavaliers played in, either. We watched two teams cruise through their respective conferences, only to watch one get beat the hell down by the other. The rest of the series were entertaining, even if the two teams in the Finals was a foregone conclusion.

The Thunder were never going to be contenders without an incredible amount of luck with drafting and otherwise developing players. This is the team that traded James Harden away rather than risk paying the luxury tax. To succeed in a champagne league on a beer budget requires either incredible success with young players or fantastic coaching. The Thunder have shown no signs of either for years, and Durant left. If you're going to leave to chase a ring, why intentionally make it harder?
  #332  
Old 06-13-2017, 04:10 PM
DigitalC DigitalC is offline
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The Thunder were never going to be contenders without an incredible amount of luck with drafting and otherwise developing players. This is the team that traded James Harden away rather than risk paying the luxury tax. To succeed in a champagne league on a beer budget requires either incredible success with young players or fantastic coaching. The Thunder have shown no signs of either for years, and Durant left. If you're going to leave to chase a ring, why intentionally make it harder?
They drafted three mvp caliber players in three successive drafts, that's pretty much the best three year draft luck ever. That's not even counting Ibaka. That was a dynasty in a platter, a super team built the right way, and they still pissed it away.
  #333  
Old 06-13-2017, 05:21 PM
asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by Barkis is Willin' View Post
Nobody wants an inevitable outcome in sports. This Warriors championship was as close to that as it gets. Even MJ never breezed through a postseason with that kind of ease. That's why people don't like KD's decision to go there. I don't hold it against him personally, but I am bummed that this NBA season and postseason was so damn predictable. It's true that his decision to go to GS made the NBA, especially the playoffs, a little less fun to follow.
I think the Spurs beat-down of the Miami Heat in 2014 was more one-sided than what the Warriors did this past week. The Lakers thrashed the Nets in 2002. The Spurs smashed Lebron's original Cavs squad in 2007. I think the Warriors were clearly the better team but the Cavs were more competitive than I thought they'd be, despite being closed out in just five games. The first 2 games were indeed blowouts, but Cleveland made it a much more competitive series after that. Just too bad it took them that long to figure it out.
  #334  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:33 PM
marshmallow marshmallow is offline
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You can blame Durant, but you should also blame the ring obsessed fandom, media, and former players who belittle each other for not having dem rangz.
  #335  
Old 06-13-2017, 06:50 PM
G0sp3l G0sp3l is offline
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You can blame Durant, but you should also blame the ring obsessed fandom, media, and former players who belittle each other for not having dem rangz.
This is pretty much what Max Kellerman was saying on ESPN this morning. I agree, FWIW.
  #336  
Old 06-13-2017, 07:56 PM
Channing Idaho Banks Channing Idaho Banks is offline
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The Warriors made Kevin Durant an offer he couldn't refuse. It ended up being a really good decision. How can you argue with that?
  #337  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:28 PM
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Surprised nobody's seriously talking about what it must have been like for Durant to have had to play with the talented but mildly narcissistic Russell Westbrook. Nobody here's talking about the fact that Scott Brooks' personality wasn't strong enough to convince Westbrook to be more than a scorer. I think Durant bought into the team concept but Westbrook was constantly trying to be top baller on the Thunder's team. Harden also had a bit of an ego as well. Harden went to Houston and was part of a pretty loaded lineup and nobody gave him shit for that, so why is now everyone on Durant's case? Westbook now gets to showcase his talents with ridiculous offensive performances, and good for him -- but they're not a championship team. There's no reason to blame Durant for wanting to be a winner. Time to turn the page.
  #338  
Old 06-13-2017, 10:29 PM
NetTrekker NetTrekker is offline
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If the Cavs had held onto the lead down the stretch in Game 3 the series would have gone 2-2 with another game to be played in Cleveland. It's not much of a stretch for this to have been another 7 game series and it has proved to be pretty much necessary for the Warriors to have gone and acquired a top-2 NBA player to beat a healthy LeBron & Co.

Last edited by NetTrekker; 06-13-2017 at 10:31 PM.
  #339  
Old 06-14-2017, 01:13 PM
Human Action Human Action is offline
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Originally Posted by Channing Idaho Banks View Post
The Warriors made Kevin Durant an offer he couldn't refuse. It ended up being a really good decision. How can you argue with that?
By pointing out how lousy (though popular) the Finals were. A decision that was good for the Warriors and Durant can still be bad for fans like me, who want to see close games and series in the playoffs. Series like last year's Finals, which were amazing. A rematch of those rosters would have been great.

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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Surprised nobody's seriously talking about what it must have been like for Durant to have had to play with the talented but mildly narcissistic Russell Westbrook. Nobody here's talking about the fact that Scott Brooks' personality wasn't strong enough to convince Westbrook to be more than a scorer. I think Durant bought into the team concept but Westbrook was constantly trying to be top baller on the Thunder's team.
I don't know about the Thunder team chemistry or whatever, but there were 27 non-Warriors, non-Cavs teams Durant could have signed with, if he was interested in building a great team instead of joining a 73-win juggernaut build by others.

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Harden also had a bit of an ego as well. Harden went to Houston and was part of a pretty loaded lineup and nobody gave him shit for that, so why is now everyone on Durant's case? Westbook now gets to showcase his talents with ridiculous offensive performances, and good for him -- but they're not a championship team.
For one, Harden was traded, and for two, the '12-'13 Rockets featured the following non-Harden players who exceeded 10 mpg: Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lin, Omer Asik, Patrick Patterson, Carlos Delfino, Marcus Morris, Toney Douglas, Francisco Garcia, Patrick Beverly, Greg Smith, Terrence Jones, Thomas Robinson, Donatas Motijunas, Daequan Cook.

They went 45-37.

Not comparable at all to Durant's situation.

Quote:
There's no reason to blame Durant for wanting to be a winner. Time to turn the page.
Durant did what was good for Durant, that much we can agree on. He's not obligated to make the league better, just like I'm not obligated to continue to follow the NBA during this era of competitive imbalance.
  #340  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:07 AM
Bullitt Bullitt is online now
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Originally Posted by Human Action View Post
By pointing out how lousy (though popular) the Finals were. A decision that was good for the Warriors and Durant can still be bad for fans like me, who want to see close games and series in the playoffs. Series like last year's Finals, which were amazing. A rematch of those rosters would have been great.
Rematch of those rosters? You mean an injurred Curry and Bogut, and a suspended Green? With the hobbled 2015-2016 Warriors lineup, it was a competetive series.



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Originally Posted by Human Action View Post
(Durant is) not obligated to make the league better, just like I'm not obligated to continue to follow the NBA during this era of competitive imbalance.
So excellence on the court is to be avoided by you. See ya.
  #341  
Old 06-15-2017, 08:47 AM
DCnDC DCnDC is offline
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Originally Posted by Human Action View Post
He's not obligated to make the league better, just like I'm not obligated to continue to follow the NBA during this era of competitive imbalance.
What basketball have you been watching? There has never been "competitive balance" in the NBA; it has always been a game of the haves dominating the have-nots, and there are only ever so many transcendent superstar players to be had at any given time.

Here are some interesting facts:
  • 40% of the league, 12 of 30 current teams (Suns, Jazz, Nets, Magic, Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Bobcats/Hornets, Nuggets, Hornets/Pelicans, Raptors, Timberwolves), have never won a championship.
  • More than half of those teams (Clippers, Grizzlies, Bobcats/Hornets, Nuggets, Hornets/Pelicans, Raptors, Timberwolves) have never even played for one.
  • Of the 18 current teams that have won championships, 8 of them have only won once (Hawks, Bullets/Wizards, Sonics/Thunder, Cavaliers, Blazers, Bucks, Mavericks, Kings), 2 have won twice (Knicks, Rockets), 3 have won thrice (76ers, Pistons, Heat), 2 have won five (Warriors, Spurs), 1 has won six (Bulls), and all the rest have been won by the Lakers (16) and Celtics (17).
  #342  
Old 06-15-2017, 09:44 AM
Bullitt Bullitt is online now
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
What basketball have you been watching? There has never been "competitive balance" in the NBA; it has always been a game of the haves dominating the have-nots, and there are only ever so many transcendent superstar players to be had at any given time.

Here are some interesting facts:
  • 40% of the league, 12 of 30 current teams (Suns, Jazz, Nets, Magic, Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Bobcats/Hornets, Nuggets, Hornets/Pelicans, Raptors, Timberwolves), have never won a championship.
  • More than half of those teams (Clippers, Grizzlies, Bobcats/Hornets, Nuggets, Hornets/Pelicans, Raptors, Timberwolves) have never even played for one.
  • Of the 18 current teams that have won championships, 8 of them have only won once (Hawks, Bullets/Wizards, Sonics/Thunder, Cavaliers, Blazers, Bucks, Mavericks, Kings), 2 have won twice (Knicks, Rockets), 3 have won thrice (76ers, Pistons, Heat), 2 have won five (Warriors, Spurs), 1 has won six (Bulls), and all the rest have been won by the Lakers (16) and Celtics (17).
Interesting! And speaking of teams loading up with extra talent, I'm reminded of the 2003-2004 LA Lakers Dream Team. When Karl Malone and Gary Payton joined a Lakers team with Shaq and Kobe that had recently won 3 straight championships, it was a foregone conclusion that they'd win another. But injuries and bickering got in their way. Phil Jackson called Kobe uncoachable. Shaq left for Miami. Sadly, Karl Malone never got his ring.
  #343  
Old 06-15-2017, 12:59 PM
Human Action Human Action is offline
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Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
Rematch of those rosters? You mean an injurred Curry and Bogut, and a suspended Green? With the hobbled 2015-2016 Warriors lineup, it was a competetive series.
I mean a rematch of those rosters. That means the same players. Maybe the Dubs win, maybe the Cavs, but there's a good chance of a 6-7 game series.

Quote:
So excellence on the court is to be avoided by you. See ya.
Again, it's an entertainment business. I could play one-on-one with my 7 year old nephew and win every game 99-0 - pretty damn excellent, no? - but I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for the privilege of watching.

Maybe some people are just wired differently, I don't know. You can look at fierce rivalries with a lot of back-and-forth as the ideal, or you can exalt UConn-style utter domination by one team. I go with the former, like all good-hearted people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
What basketball have you been watching? There has never been "competitive balance" in the NBA; it has always been a game of the haves dominating the have-nots, and there are only ever so many transcendent superstar players to be had at any given time.

Here are some interesting facts:
  • 40% of the league, 12 of 30 current teams (Suns, Jazz, Nets, Magic, Pacers, Clippers, Grizzlies, Bobcats/Hornets, Nuggets, Hornets/Pelicans, Raptors, Timberwolves), have never won a championship.
  • More than half of those teams (Clippers, Grizzlies, Bobcats/Hornets, Nuggets, Hornets/Pelicans, Raptors, Timberwolves) have never even played for one.
  • Of the 18 current teams that have won championships, 8 of them have only won once (Hawks, Bullets/Wizards, Sonics/Thunder, Cavaliers, Blazers, Bucks, Mavericks, Kings), 2 have won twice (Knicks, Rockets), 3 have won thrice (76ers, Pistons, Heat), 2 have won five (Warriors, Spurs), 1 has won six (Bulls), and all the rest have been won by the Lakers (16) and Celtics (17).
I'm not talking about having 30 contenders, I'm talking about having more than 1, and ideally 4 or so. Remember 2011-14? Championships by Dallas, Miami, and San Antonio, Finals appearance by OKC. Multiple great 6- and 7-game conference finals & finals. Remember when the '14 Spurs - who were a great team - needed 7 games to get past Memphis, 6 to get past the Clippers, and 6 to beat OKC? Remember the '12 conference finals, which were both classics?

It beat the shit out of what we have now, unless you're a Warriors fan.

Last edited by Human Action; 06-15-2017 at 01:00 PM.
  #344  
Old 06-15-2017, 01:17 PM
DCnDC DCnDC is offline
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You can cherry pick all you want my friend, it doesn't change the fact that the NBA has ALWAYS been dominated by just a handful of teams. Just because there's one exceptionally dominant team right now that you don't like doesn't make all the rest disappear from history.

And BTW that magical run from '11-'14 that you're so nostalgic for? 8 Finals slots, 4 of them (LeBron's) Miami, 2 of them San Antonio.
  #345  
Old 06-15-2017, 01:20 PM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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Originally Posted by Human Action View Post
I mean a rematch of those rosters. That means the same players. Maybe the Dubs win, maybe the Cavs, but there's a good chance of a 6-7 game series.
That series is over in 5 games, too, MAYBE 6. Take out the slugout the Warriors had in the conference finals alone, and it's a whole different game. Golden State got 2 days between the series with Oklahoma City and the Finals - both teams got almost a week this time around. Throw in a healthy Curry and Bogut, and Green for Game 5, and that series never went back to Cleveland.



Quote:
Again, it's an entertainment business. I could play one-on-one with my 7 year old nephew and win every game 99-0 - pretty damn excellent, no? - but I wouldn't expect anyone to pay for the privilege of watching.

Maybe some people are just wired differently, I don't know. You can look at fierce rivalries with a lot of back-and-forth as the ideal, or you can exalt UConn-style utter domination by one team. I go with the former, like all good-hearted people.
There were 13 different series in the playoffs this year. 7 of those went to 6 or 7 games, and were up for grabs at pretty much any point - pretty much every series that didn't involve the Cavaliers or the Warriors. If knock-down, drag-out fights to the final horn are your thing, there's plenty out there, just not at the tip-top.


Quote:
It beat the shit out of what we have now, unless you're a Warriors fan.
Which long-term Warriors player should they just throw away to make you happy? Shall we just break both of Curry's ankles before the playoffs start? Drug test Klay Thompson every day for marijuana? Suspend Green for the Finals because someone on the floor fell over? Kick Iguodala in the balls until he can't play? Outside of Durant, this isn't a team that's been put together from bits and pieces just to win a championship. Even without KD, they've been pretty damn dominant.
  #346  
Old 06-15-2017, 02:09 PM
Human Action Human Action is offline
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
You can cherry pick all you want my friend, it doesn't change the fact that the NBA has ALWAYS been dominated by just a handful of teams. Just because there's one exceptionally dominant team right now that you don't like doesn't make all the rest disappear from history.
Huh? Did you think I was disputing that Lakers and Celtics have a huge chunk of the titles or something? To repeat: multiple contenders is better than 1 contender. In the recent past, the NBA had multiple contenders - for example, the Lakers and Celtics teams in the 80s. Having an exceptionally dominant team is A Bad Thing. The end.

Quote:
And BTW that magical run from '11-'14 that you're so nostalgic for? 8 Finals slots, 4 of them (LeBron's) Miami, 2 of them San Antonio.
And, again, that run - even though it was characterized by a superteam in Miami and a weak, post-Boston, Eastern conference - produced great basketball games. Now, I guess we root for the Warriors to break up or get hurt? Woo! Maybe if Curry steps in front of a taxicab, we can get a Finals half as good as last year's, or 2012's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chisquirrel View Post
That series is over in 5 games, too, MAYBE 6. Take out the slugout the Warriors had in the conference finals alone, and it's a whole different game. Golden State got 2 days between the series with Oklahoma City and the Finals - both teams got almost a week this time around. Throw in a healthy Curry and Bogut, and Green for Game 5, and that series never went back to Cleveland.
If you say so. Based on the last 3 Finals, and the skill set of one Kevin Durant, I'm not so sure. Unless you have a time machine, that's all there is to it.

Quote:
There were 13 different series in the playoffs this year. 7 of those went to 6 or 7 games, and were up for grabs at pretty much any point - pretty much every series that didn't involve the Cavaliers or the Warriors. If knock-down, drag-out fights to the final horn are your thing, there's plenty out there, just not at the tip-top.
And I watched those non-Cavs/Warriors series, because I love basketball. Knowing that the outcomes were totally moot takes a lot of the thrill out of it. Ever watch a DVR'd game from a few days before, when you already know the score? Same thing. Competing for the right to get obliterated by the superteam or the hyperteam isn't compelling stuff.

Quote:
Which long-term Warriors player should they just throw away to make you happy? Shall we just break both of Curry's ankles before the playoffs start? Drug test Klay Thompson every day for marijuana? Suspend Green for the Finals because someone on the floor fell over? Kick Iguodala in the balls until he can't play? Outside of Durant, this isn't a team that's been put together from bits and pieces just to win a championship. Even without KD, they've been pretty damn dominant.
I'm not asking the Warriors to do anything, I'm bitching about how the playoffs sucked. Jesus.

UK's season can't start soon enough.
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