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Old 05-19-2017, 12:45 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
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re: Who came up with our popular image of Jesus?

I've always wondered if the Byzantine version of Jesus, as seen in countless mosaics, was derived at all from imagery of Alexander the Great. Is there any likely connection?
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:06 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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No. Alexander was always (mostly?) beardless. Except for Roxanna. ld rolleyes:
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Old 05-19-2017, 07:03 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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Alexander got a few mentions, but nothing like Cyrus the Great, the most celebrated goy in the OT.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:37 AM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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It's normal practice to provide a link to the column under discussion.
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:00 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Alexander got a few mentions, but nothing like Cyrus the Great, the most celebrated goy in the OT.
FWIW, Cyrus of Persia actually freed the Jews from captivity, and there was speculation that he was the promised messiah.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:04 PM
GinoC GinoC is offline
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Apparently, the spurious tale that modern depictions of Jesus were based on Cesare Borgia can be traced back to Alexandre Dumas in his 1839 essay on the Borgias from "Celebrated Crimes". It is a common meme in atheist FB pages and needs constant debunking. Somehow it is supposed to discredit Christianity, but all it does is make some atheists looked uninformed.
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Old 05-20-2017, 01:10 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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ISTM Hellenistic/Byzantine iconography would have had an established set of visual tropes in its "language", which would lead to images of Christ sharing characteristics with images of Justinian or of Alexander as a function of artistic conventions about "this is how we represent a supreme ruler" rather than out of direct appropriation of the image.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 05-20-2017 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:40 PM
bump bump is offline
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Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
ISTM Hellenistic/Byzantine iconography would have had an established set of visual tropes in its "language", which would lead to images of Christ sharing characteristics with images of Justinian or of Alexander as a function of artistic conventions about "this is how we represent a supreme ruler" rather than out of direct appropriation of the image.
Wouldn't that have worked more the other way though? As in, Justinian's images would be more influenced by portrayals of Christ, and probably various previous Roman/Byzantine Emperors, than the other way around?

I always understood a LOT of the traditional Western Church portrayals of Christ to be based on syncretism with Apollo and other sun gods (Sol Invictus?). So in other words, the early Christians deliberately portrayed Christ in much the same way that Apollo had been portrayed, to sort of supplant him.
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:50 PM
Biffster Biffster is offline
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Well, in North America, we certainly seem to favour the white boy European style Jesus, though he still looks like a hippy. I'm surprised Republicans haven't given him a proper brush cut yet. Black Jesus is an interesting variation, hanging with his homeboys in the hood. Jesus of Montreal was another interesting variation, with a diminutive and soft spoken Quebecer taking on the identity of the Lord and Saviour. As I see it, man creates God in his own image; we see what we want to see.


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  #10  
Old 05-20-2017, 05:35 PM
F. U. Shakespeare F. U. Shakespeare is offline
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Well, in North America, we certainly seem to favour the white boy European style Jesus, though he still looks like a hippy. I'm surprised Republicans haven't given him a proper brush cut yet. Black Jesus is an interesting variation, hanging with his homeboys in the hood. Jesus of Montreal was another interesting variation, with a diminutive and soft spoken Quebecer taking on the identity of the Lord and Saviour. As I see it, man creates God in his own image; we see what we want to see.
Comic Julia Sweeney once riffed on the difference between the crucifixion images she'd seen in Italy (where the expressions emphasize the pain and suffering) and Utah, where the Nordic-looking faces bore an expression that resembled John Wayne sneering, "This all ya got, Roman?"
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Old 05-20-2017, 08:29 PM
TreacherousCretin TreacherousCretin is offline
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Originally Posted by F. U. Shakespeare View Post
Comic Julia Sweeney once riffed on the difference between the crucifixion images she'd seen in Italy (where the expressions emphasize the pain and suffering) and Utah, where the Nordic-looking faces bore an expression that resembled John Wayne sneering, "This all ya got, Roman?"
Many moons ago Robin Williams riffed on the Second Coming, saying Jesus is pissed off and "this time he isn't going to look like Ted Nugent."
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Old 05-25-2017, 10:57 AM
CaptMurdock CaptMurdock is offline
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Many moons ago Robin Williams riffed on the Second Coming, saying Jesus is pissed off and "this time he isn't going to look like Ted Nugent."
Considering the hardware Ted supposedly packs around...
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Old 05-25-2017, 12:33 PM
TreacherousCretin TreacherousCretin is offline
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Considering the hardware Ted supposedly packs around...
IIRC William's joke would have been 15-20 years ago. I think Nugent may have had a different stage image in those days. "Crazy hippie in a loincloth" or something like that? (I know next to nothing about him.)
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Old 05-25-2017, 05:28 PM
Clothahump Clothahump is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F. U. Shakespeare View Post
Comic Julia Sweeney once riffed on the difference between the crucifixion images she'd seen in Italy (where the expressions emphasize the pain and suffering) and Utah, where the Nordic-looking faces bore an expression that resembled John Wayne sneering, "This all ya got, Roman?"
Along those lines: http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d9...JustBefore.jpg
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:53 PM
betelguese2 betelguese2 is offline
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As per this historical and archaeological evidence, the link is probably the first known depiction of Jesus.

[URL="http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/a_history_of_the_world/objects.aspx#44"]
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:10 PM
TreacherousCretin TreacherousCretin is offline
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Originally Posted by betelguese2 View Post
As per this historical and archaeological evidence, the link is probably the first known depiction of Jesus.

[URL="http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/a_history_of_the_world/objects.aspx#44"]
Looks a bit like the Jolly Roger before he lost all the weight.
  #17  
Old 05-30-2017, 09:48 PM
F. U. Shakespeare F. U. Shakespeare is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betelguese2 View Post
As per this historical and archaeological evidence, the link is probably the first known depiction of Jesus.

[URL="http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/a_history_of_the_world/objects.aspx#44"]
That hook. Those bushy eyebrows. That native tan. He'd be a shoo-in for Utah governor.
  #18  
Old 06-09-2017, 10:21 AM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is offline
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I heard somewhere that a short-haired, beardless Christ, as in the mosaic linked above, was the standard image for centuries. Then the Turin Shroud was discovered, and the face on the shroud became the standard.


No cite, I just heard it somewhere.
  #19  
Old 06-09-2017, 10:52 AM
Biffster Biffster is offline
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Republican Jesus.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1439271a8c.jpg
  #20  
Old 06-15-2017, 11:01 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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FWIW, Cyrus of Persia actually freed the Jews from captivity, and there was speculation that he was the promised messiah.
Cyrus this, Cyrus that. Trump will ban them all.
  #21  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:50 AM
SeniorCitizen007 SeniorCitizen007 is offline
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Google seems to have a pretty clear idea of what Jesus looked like
https://www.google.co.uk/search?num=....0.CvgnwCxkJOc
  #22  
Old 06-18-2017, 12:37 PM
Biffster Biffster is offline
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Google seems to have a pretty clear idea of what Jesus looked like

https://www.google.co.uk/search?num=....0.CvgnwCxkJOc

Hmmm, that's odd....never saw him as having so many legs.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5f8468ecb5.jpg
  #23  
Old 06-27-2017, 05:40 AM
eburacum45 eburacum45 is offline
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Lots of early Jesuses on this page, from the Roman catacombs:
not many beards in evidence there.
https://archive.is/20120708110958/ht...ix/CatPix.html
  #24  
Old 06-27-2017, 01:47 PM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
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Hmmm, that's odd....never saw him as having so many legs.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5f8468ecb5.jpg
Jesus is coming back and boy is he ticked
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