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  #51  
Old 08-09-2017, 12:36 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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He could also send the VP on repeated fact-finding tours to faraway dangerous, boring or inconvenient places. The VP might eventually refuse to go, but he'd remain VP.

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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
Amazingly, when I say something is "silent" on a question, and you then say that it "has a lot to say about it", that's a literal contradiction. Funny how I might think that was what you were doing.
I'm sorry, I came here for an argument.
  #52  
Old 08-09-2017, 12:52 PM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
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Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
He could also send the VP on repeated fact-finding tours to faraway dangerous, boring or inconvenient places. The VP might eventually refuse to go, but he'd remain VP.
Eventually?
"Hey Pence. Need you to go to Somalia and get the lay of the land."
"Sorry, I got heel spurs."
  #53  
Old 08-09-2017, 01:28 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Chimera View Post

The only thing he could do is replace him on the ticket in 2020.
And, in theory, that is not guaranteed.
  #54  
Old 08-09-2017, 01:31 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir View Post
I'm sorry, I came here for an argument.
That's 12-A, down the hall.
  #55  
Old 08-09-2017, 01:32 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kunilou View Post
It's been noted this is wrong, but for completeness, the poster is talking about either John Nance Garner (FDR's first VP) or Henry Wallace (his second.)

Garner was the one who called the vice presidency "not worth a bucket of warm piss." Garner broke with Roosevelt during their second term. Wallace was the one who was distrusted by the party bosses. FDR dumped him as VP,
Here's the story behind Garners maybe quote :

https://www.cah.utexas.edu/news/pres...s=press_bucket
  #56  
Old 08-09-2017, 02:32 PM
DrCube DrCube is offline
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Originally Posted by Lemur866 View Post
The problem with this idea is that the President only has the power to pardon crimes against the United States. Murder is a state crime and so you'd need a state governor to pardon you.

Or find some territory with no local laws against murder. Washington DC is out, even though it's not a state the local cops can still arrest you for murder. Some uninhabited island under Federal control might do it.
I don't think the Secret Service is going to let Podunk P.D., State Troopers, DC Police or even the FBI take the President into custody and lock him in a cage, even if he murdered someone on Fifth Avenue in broad daylight.

So the President can do whatever he wants anywhere in the country (and probably most other countries on Earth), and law enforcement and the courts only get a crack at him after Congress impeaches him and removes him from office. That or his term ends.
  #57  
Old 08-09-2017, 03:32 PM
cochrane cochrane is offline
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Originally Posted by Si Amigo View Post
Couldn't POTUS challenge the VP to a dual, kill the VP and then pardon himself? There appears to be precedent here is all I'm saying. And damn that would make great TV! I'd watch that one, the ratings would be stellar.
Unfortunately, dueling is illegal in D.C. But, two people can mutually agree to a fistfight as long as the police referee. Now, that I'd pay to see. Trump vs Pence with bare knuckles in the middle of Fifth Avenue.
  #58  
Old 08-09-2017, 05:36 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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And a pardon won't stop Congress from impeaching, which they'd pretty much have to do.
  #59  
Old 08-09-2017, 06:01 PM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
And a pardon won't stop Congress from impeaching, which they'd pretty much have to do.
WTF has that got to do with anything?
  #60  
Old 08-09-2017, 08:30 PM
Telemark Telemark is offline
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WTF has that got to do with anything?
The conversation started with firing the VP, wandered into duels and pardons, I don't see that impeachment is much of a topic stretch.
  #61  
Old 08-10-2017, 10:27 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
That's 12-A, down the hall.
No, it isn't!
  #62  
Old 08-11-2017, 10:30 AM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
The conversation started with firing the VP, wandered into duels and pardons, I don't see that impeachment is much of a topic stretch.
Sorry. I was ignoring all the dueling posts so yours seemed totally out of the blue.
  #63  
Old 08-12-2017, 09:13 PM
Jim's Son Jim's Son is offline
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Kind of a side note but it's been 40 years (1976) when a President running for reelection has dumped the incumbent Vice President. AndFord/Rockefeller is probably a special case since both got into office by nomination of the President/approval by the Senate. Since then we've had six election where the incumbets ran for reelection. There were two before that with the 1944 Democratic convention having all kinds of drama: FDR publicly saying if he was a delegate, he'd vote for incumbent Henry Wallace, massive delegate support for Wallace, very few and tepid speeches for Truman, a fire hazard when Wallace looked like he would win the vote. Roosevelt was in the Pacific meeting with General MacArthur and the more conservative party leaders prevailed.

For whatever reason, nowadays Presidents and Vice Presidents don't split up. I suppose a President feels he will look weak if he drops the Veep for relection and at some level a Veep has to they he is only a heartbeat away and the job isn't too hard.
  #64  
Old 08-12-2017, 11:34 PM
TSBG TSBG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim's Son View Post
Kind of a side note but it's been 40 years (1976) when a President running for reelection has dumped the incumbent Vice President. AndFord/Rockefeller is probably a special case since both got into office by nomination of the President/approval by the Senate. Since then we've had six election where the incumbets ran for reelection. There were two before that with the 1944 Democratic convention having all kinds of drama: FDR publicly saying if he was a delegate, he'd vote for incumbent Henry Wallace, massive delegate support for Wallace, very few and tepid speeches for Truman, a fire hazard when Wallace looked like he would win the vote. Roosevelt was in the Pacific meeting with General MacArthur and the more conservative party leaders prevailed.

For whatever reason, nowadays Presidents and Vice Presidents don't split up. I suppose a President feels he will look weak if he drops the Veep for relection and at some level a Veep has to they he is only a heartbeat away and the job isn't too hard.
Since we've wandered a little...

Funny thing about Ford dumping Rocky in 1976 was that it really pissed Reagan off. Rockefeller was not ideologically a match for Reagan, but they'd become personal friends through the Republican Governors Association. Dole was much more conservative than Rocky (and Ford), but was a weird choice made because for some reason Ford's people thought there was a danger he'd lose some plains states. Reagan also did a strange thing by announcing his VP choice before the convention--Lowell Weicker, a liberal Republican, which may have been part of what helped Ford keep the conservative Mississippi delegation in line and thus guaranteed his nomination.

In conclusion, Vice Presidential history is more interesting than you thought.
  #65  
Old 08-13-2017, 12:43 AM
Jim's Son Jim's Son is offline
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Originally Posted by TSBG View Post
Since we've wandered a little...

Funny thing about Ford dumping Rocky in 1976 was that it really pissed Reagan off. Rockefeller was not ideologically a match for Reagan, but they'd become personal friends through the Republican Governors Association. Dole was much more conservative than Rocky (and Ford), but was a weird choice made because for some reason Ford's people thought there was a danger he'd lose some plains states. Reagan also did a strange thing by announcing his VP choice before the convention--Lowell Weicker, a liberal Republican, which may have been part of what helped Ford keep the conservative Mississippi delegation in line and thus guaranteed his nomination.

In conclusion, Vice Presidential history is more interesting than you thought.
Actually Reagan's choice was Richard Schweiker of Pennsylvania, who was from the liberal wing. But the names are surprisingly similar. Reagan was behind in the delegate count and thought he might as well try to reassure liberals and moderates by naming Schweiker.
Carter beat Ford by 4.5% in New York and one wonders if Rockefeller, four times elected New York Governor, could have helped Ford win the state, and therefore the election (assuming all the other states turned out the same way).

Rather interesting a year later George Gallup Jr came to my college for a speech and Q & A. I asked him if Vice Presidential candidates have much of an impact on. elections. He replied that while he thought Dole hurt Ford's campaign, in general who the Vice President nominee is matters very little to most voters. One thing he did say was he thought there was a religious resurgence brewing that would play a big part in 1980s politics, and I guess you could say the moral majority did.
  #66  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:55 AM
TSBG TSBG is offline
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Originally Posted by Jim's Son View Post
Actually Reagan's choice was Richard Schweiker of Pennsylvania, who was from the liberal wing. But the names are surprisingly similar. Reagan was behind in the delegate count and thought he might as well try to reassure liberals and moderates by naming Schweiker.
Carter beat Ford by 4.5% in New York and one wonders if Rockefeller, four times elected New York Governor, could have helped Ford win the state, and therefore the election (assuming all the other states turned out the same way).

Rather interesting a year later George Gallup Jr came to my college for a speech and Q & A. I asked him if Vice Presidential candidates have much of an impact on. elections. He replied that while he thought Dole hurt Ford's campaign, in general who the Vice President nominee is matters very little to most voters. One thing he did say was he thought there was a religious resurgence brewing that would play a big part in 1980s politics, and I guess you could say the moral majority did.
Thanks for the name correction.
  #67  
Old 08-14-2017, 12:17 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim's Son View Post
Kind of a side note but it's been 40 years (1976) when a President running for reelection has dumped the incumbent Vice President. AndFord/Rockefeller is probably a special case since both got into office by nomination of the President/approval by the Senate....
Actually, both Houses of Congress get to vote. See Sec. 2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty...stitution#Text
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