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  #1  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:39 AM
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Confess!!! (your climate sins)


The Right has long felt that the environmental movement was becoming essentially a religion for the Left. Now it seems that journey is complete, with a confessional and everything:

Quote:
Climate Confessions

Even those who care deeply about the planet's future can slip up now and then. Tell us: Where do you fall short in preventing climate change? Do you blast the A/C? Throw out half your lunch? Grill a steak every week? Share your anonymous confession with NBC News.
I suspect much laughter will ensue from the responses.
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:42 AM
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Much laughter will ensue because it's pretty clearly tongue in cheek.
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:48 AM
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Wow. There are some confessions, and then there are stuff like this:

Quote:
who cares? I'll do what I like. I'll floor it in my gas guzzling sports car just for fun. You do not matter to me.
I have no words.
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Zyada View Post
Wow. There are some confessions, and then there are stuff like this:

Quote:
who cares? I'll do what I like. I'll floor it in my gas guzzling sports car just for fun. You do not matter to me.
I have no words.
That's a pretty accurate summation of "The Right"'s general position on the subject.
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:53 AM
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Apostate! Burn him!
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:53 AM
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The last thing we need is for people to think about the impact their own behavior has on the environment. It might accidentally lead to meaningful change, forcing hardcore comedy fans like the OP to find some other hilarious thing to giggle at.
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Old 09-19-2019, 11:57 AM
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If the righties think it has become a religion, then guess what? The right is wrong as hell, as usual. Lefties generally care about the environment, and respect the science that claims we're doing great harm.
My car has a V-8 engine that only uses 4 when I'm cruising. I could do better by the environment, I suppose, but I don't put many miles on it and I pass the emissions test every 2 years.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:04 PM
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It is pretty hard to make sense of what appears to be Trump's war on the environment. How shortsighted, and how craven to big business can you be? Thinking most recently of the proposal to restrict California's air quality laws.

But as to the OP - any who takes a plane trip is creating a pretty massive personal carbon footprint.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:06 PM
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Apostate! Burn him!
No need, he'll take care of that himself. Take the rest of us with him, too.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:27 PM
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I guess if Noah had decided to have a barbecue instead of a cruise, he'd have nothing to repent.
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Old 09-19-2019, 12:36 PM
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I love the environment. It’s nice having air with oxygen and not too much lead. However, I have a confession. Sometimes I take 2 showers in a day.
  #12  
Old 09-19-2019, 01:20 PM
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Grilling a steak a week is bad? What, are supposed to eat it raw?
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Old 09-19-2019, 01:43 PM
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But as to the OP - any who takes a plane trip is creating a pretty massive personal carbon footprint.
It's high but not OMG high. I did the math for an LA-NYC trip. Fly commercial, and you generate the equivalent of 1900 kg of CO2. Drive that same trip in a car that gets 30 MPG, and you generate 845 kg of CO2.

My sin? Recreational motorcycling. I'll ride a motorcycle across multiple states to get to where there are fun, scenic roads. And then I'll spend several days riding those roads, taking extremely circuitous routes between waypoints, and riding in an extremely sporting fashion - that is, hard on the throttle and hard on the brakes, all day long. And then I'll ride across multiple states to get home afterwards.

Basically anyone who burns fossil fuel for fun or luxury ends up being tagged as a climate-sinner. Enjoy airshows? Sinner. Motorsports? Sinner. Running the AC when a fan would do? Sinner. Dry your clothes in a machine instead of on a line? Sinner. Hot oatmeal? Sinner.
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Old 09-19-2019, 01:55 PM
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Hmm, lets see...

My daily driver car is an emissions-fixed 2012 VW Golf TDI diesel
my garden tractor is a 20+ year old Kubota 3-cylinder diesel (just a muffler, no emissions hardware)
I own a 1999 Yamaha V-Star 650 classic that has no emissions controls, just mufflers
my house uses both propane (stove) and home heating oil (oil furnace) and HHO is basically diesel/kerosene
I am an omnivore with strong carnivore leanings

on the upside;

I really don't drive/ride excessively much, under 10,000 miles a year
I grow a large percentage of my food in my backyard garden
I keep the house at 68 degrees in the winter, and in the mid 70's in the summer, and try to use as little home heating oil and electricity for the AC as possible
I've planted a good amount of trees, shrubs, and blueberry bushes in the yard
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
I love the environment. It’s nice having air with oxygen and not too much lead.
Liberal.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Machine Elf View Post
It's high but not OMG high. I did the math for an LA-NYC trip. Fly commercial, and you generate the equivalent of 1900 kg of CO2. Drive that same trip in a car that gets 30 MPG, and you generate 845 kg of CO2.
Is that per plane or per person?
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:39 PM
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Is that per plane or per person?
Per passenger. So yeah, it's 2.5X what you put out if you drive, bu it's not like it's 30 or 40X or something.
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:47 PM
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I confess...after 10 years of owning a hybrid car, I sold it and got a full-blown gas guzzler.

Also, I eat red meat in up to nine meals a week, if you include all-beef hot dogs, beef meatballs, and pepperoni pizza as "red meat."

And, even though I live alone, a few nights ago, I had the lights on in three rooms at once!
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Old 09-19-2019, 02:55 PM
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Good - I downsized to a condo
Bad - The HVAC system gave mass trouble which caused me to have to manually manipulate the air conditioning (more expensive and wasteful), and it was the old, freon-using, kind
Good - I replaced the system with something that uses less energy and doesn't use freon
Win
Good - I'm unemployed and therefore not driving back and forth to work
Good - I didn't fly to France or Seattle as I wanted to because of unemployed (and therefore poor)
Bad - I still flew to Ohio and back just to deliver a kitten (used FF miles)
Win
Good - I'm trying to eat more veg meals instead of meat
Bad - Due to move, I no longer grow veg and must drive to farm market
Tie
Bad - I'm ordering stuff online, and sometimes it comes from China in plastic bags and cardboard boxes
Good - I use reusable shopping bags as often as possible
Lose because I don't think it's an even-up trade
Good - I now practise trying to find pre-owned items instead of buying new in order to not add to the landfill.
Bad - I no longer have a compost heap for me food scraps.
Win but only a small one

So I'm doing a bit better than I was two years ago on the green scale (I was already trying to be green) but I still have a way to go.
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DCnDC View Post
That's a pretty accurate summation of "The Right"'s general position on the subject.
I thought the right's general position was "It isn't happening, you can't make me believe it's happening, lalalalalalalalala" (fingers in ears)
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Old 09-19-2019, 08:34 PM
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My sin/confession is I do not give a flying flock about plastic straws as an environmental threat
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:44 PM
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Bad: I got rid of the Prius and bought a gas user
Good: I only put about 5,000 miles per year on it and use public transit for most city travel.
Bad: I have an RV
Good: It's a van conversion and we only use it a few times per year
Bad: We have an AC
Good: It's energy efficient and a heat pump. Also, we have a tankless water heater.
  #23  
Old 09-19-2019, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
The Right has long felt that the environmental movement was becoming essentially a religion for the Left.
Does the Right believe that about other branches of science? Do they feel that chemistry is a religion? How about physics? Do they feel that gravity if just a miracle that the physics god produces whenever we fall down?
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:08 PM
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When one remembers that Richard Nixon proposed the establishment of EPA and many Republicans then approved it, one can see how far have the Republicans of today have fallen for gross misinformation.

https://e360.yale.edu/features/econo...onmental_rules
Quote:
In recent months, some in Congress have been waging a whole-scale war against the Environmental Protection Agency. By now it has reached comical dimensions, with three separate bills aimed at preventing a so-called EPA “dust rule” that has never even existed.

The spectacle would indeed be funny, if it wasn’t deadly serious. Republicans in Congress and in the GOP presidential debates are seeking to defund an already cash-strapped EPA under the pretense of caring about the federal deficit and are trying to hamper the agency by arguing that its rules hurt the economy.

Quite to the contrary. We have 40 years of data to show that a cleaner environment goes hand in hand with solid economic growth.
Quote:
Harvard Professor Dale W. Jorgenson, one of the deans of macroeconomic modeling who has been honing his model of the U.S. economy for decades, calculates that gross domestic product in 2010 was 1.5 percent higher because of the Clean Air Act of 1970. It turns out that protecting children from foul air leads to more productive adult workers.

That’s the moral equivalent of arguing for child labor laws by saying that keeping kids in school will increase their earnings as adults. But even this reductionist argument, focused only on a narrow definition of dollars and cents, works to show the benefits of cleaner air.

Overall, benefits of the 1970 Clean Air Act exceed costs by a factor of 30 to 1. The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments match that ratio: $1 of investments led to $30 in benefits — fewer children sick or dying, more productive workers, and healthier environs.
Quote:
When detractors speak of the enormous costs associated with sensible global warming policy, we can safely discount these figures. But we should always remember that one person’s “cost” is another’s “investment.” A dollar spent is a dollar pumped into an economy that sorely needs more spending to create jobs.

“Green growth” isn’t just a catch phrase. It’s the only way to reconcile our relentless pursuit for material wealth on a finite planet with an atmosphere at the boiling point. The fact is that sound environmental regulations — whether they address dirty air or an overheating planet — can create jobs and be a boost, rather than a burden, for the economy.
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Old 09-19-2019, 10:28 PM
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I confess...after 10 years of owning a hybrid car, I sold it and got a full-blown gas guzzler.
I bought a 2001 Honda Insight, the first hybrid I'd ever seen, but eventually the hybrid battery went bad. Yes, I could have spent $1200-2k for a new one, but I disconnected it and am driving my little two-seater as a ::gasp:: ordinary car.

Guilt-free, ya hippie eco-hipsters.

Last edited by digs; 09-19-2019 at 10:31 PM.
  #26  
Old 09-19-2019, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Machine Elf View Post
Basically anyone who burns fossil fuel for fun or luxury ends up being tagged as a climate-sinner. Enjoy airshows? Sinner. Motorsports? Sinner. Running the AC when a fan would do? Sinner. Dry your clothes in a machine instead of on a line? Sinner. Hot oatmeal? Sinner.
Since this apparently passed unnoticed, I just wanted to draw attention to the slide into absurdity of these examples. What, are we supposed to eat our oatmeal raw? And if we don't have space or weather to dry clothes outdoors, we're supposed to let them drip on the carpet? You appear to be trying to demonize anyone who cares about climate change by putting ridiculous words in their mouths.

I presume from your attitude that you don't have children or anyone younger than yourself whom you worry about leaving the world in a worse state than you found it. I am fortunate, too, in that regard in that I'll be dead (I hope) before the worst of climate change takes effect, and I'm not leaving any descendants, but for some reason I still seem to care about it. Funny old world.
  #27  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:02 AM
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I bought a 2001 Honda Insight, the first hybrid I'd ever seen, but eventually the hybrid battery went bad. Yes, I could have spent $1200-2k for a new one, but I disconnected it and am driving my little two-seater as a ::gasp:: ordinary car.

Guilt-free, ya hippie eco-hipsters.
so, you're driving a very fuel efficient 18 year old subcompact? what's the problem? spread the CO2 produced in manufacturing the car over 18 years? the carbon footprint must be minimal.

I'm in a similar way, my '12 VW Golf TDI may only be a mere 8 years old, but the VW diesel engines are basically bulletproof, and it's not unusual to get 300,000-400,000 miles off them, some have been 700,000+, plus mine has the diesel particulate filter (no soot in the tailpipe even at 5,000 miles), my plan is to run it until the wheels fall off, then repair it and run it until they fall off again, the only downside is here in New England, the winter road salt loves to eat the chassis, most new England cars have the body rot off before the engine dies

spread the carbon produced in manufacture over 400,000 miles and it's minimal

...it's certainly better than buying a new car every four years...
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2019, 01:01 AM
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We upgraded from a 900sf apartment near San Diego to a 2200sf house in Eugene with central AC and heat (lose).

However, we have excellent insulation and double glazed windows throughout and our electric bills are lesd than we used to pay (win).

For the second time in time in my life I have to drive nearly everywhere (lose)

On the other hand, 85% of our power comes from hydro and 10% from renewable sources (win win!).

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  #29  
Old 09-20-2019, 01:25 AM
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Sin is not a concept I subscribe to.
  #30  
Old 09-20-2019, 06:38 AM
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My carbon footprint is less than Al Gore's, so I'm golden. I have nothing to confess.
  #31  
Old 09-20-2019, 06:48 AM
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What, are we supposed to eat our oatmeal raw?
No, just pour cold water on it and wait for it to soak in. It takes a little longer, but you'll reduce your carbon footprint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Femm View Post
And if we don't have space or weather to dry clothes outdoors, we're supposed to let them drip on the carpet?
Don't be silly. They don't drip if you run them through a hand-cranked wringer before drying them on a line or rack in your living room. I remember doing this at my grandma's house back in the 1970s (no joke).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Femm View Post
You appear to be trying to demonize anyone who cares about climate change by putting ridiculous words in their mouths.
The concept of "sin" is that it is a bright, hard line that is not to be crossed. I'm bothered by the difficulty of defining what is and is not a "climate sin," and dove into the absurd to make that point. This Cracked article is relevant, particularly point #3. An excerpt:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracked.com
I've never been around an activist group that didn't turn into an endless series of petty purity tests.
...
The natural evolution is toward tighter and tighter criteria for what behavior gets you shunned from the group. The end result is that the central cause, the group's JWD, can be as pure as the driven snow, and yet the tone will get more and more toxic over time, the members becoming less and less charitable with each other.
I think it is good to encourage people to reduce their carbon footprint, but I think it's dangerous to do so by trying to binarize activities as either "sin" or "not-sin". For every future-minded person driving a hybrid car, there's someone else who feels superior for driving an all-electric car - and someone else who opted for an electrically-assisted bicycle. And someone else who opted for a conventional pedal bicycle. And then there's that other hard-core green guy who stubbornly walks three miles to and from work each day, not because he's poor or needs the exercise, but because it's the lowest carbon footprint he could come up with for his commute. He sees all of us as climate-sinners.
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Old 09-20-2019, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderick Femm View Post
And if we don't have space or weather to dry clothes outdoors, we're supposed to let them drip on the carpet? You appear to be trying to demonize anyone who cares about climate change by putting ridiculous words in their mouths.
Don't be silly. They don't drip if you run them through a hand-cranked wringer before drying them on a line or rack in your living room. I remember doing this at my grandma's house back in the 1970s (no joke).
Are you joking or do American washing machines not have a spin cycle? I regularly dry the clothes on a rack in the spare room, and they come out of the machine damp, not dripping wet. What's the point of tumble-drying everything?
  #33  
Old 09-20-2019, 08:58 AM
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Are you joking or do American washing machines not have a spin cycle?
What are you doing using a washing machine? That takes electricity! Sinner!

Can't speak for Roderick Femm, but my grandmother was English, living in England. The washing machine that she had back in the 1970s did not have a spin feature, so yes, a wringer was required. At some point she replaced the wringer with a separate machine whose sole purpose was the spin cycle. So wash the clothes in the washer, transfer them to the spinner, then transfer them to the clothesline. Fun times.

In Japan these days, it's pretty typical to have one single machine that does it all: wash, spin, heat-dry.
  #34  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:15 AM
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I'm liking post 31. It's a good one, and I agree.
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Old 09-20-2019, 09:20 AM
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Much laughter will ensue because it's pretty clearly tongue in cheek.
Really? What makes you think that?
  #36  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:35 AM
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If the righties think it has become a religion, then guess what? The right is wrong as hell, as usual. Lefties generally care about the environment, and respect the science that claims we're doing great harm.
It's a classic tactic of deniers. "Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!"

Antivaxers play this game too.

If your position is based on solid evidence that can be replicated by quality peer-reviewed published research, that somehow equates to sun worship.
  #37  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:03 AM
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I drive a gas guzzler, get about 13 miles to a gallon.

I try to reuse plastic bags as much as possible. My wife and I reuse zip lock bags unless they had meat in them.

The amount of waste generated by my employer is absolutely ridiculous. It's considered the cost of doing business. A lot of what is thrown away could be recycled and/or reused but it costs more than just throwing it away. Some big airplane parts come in big plywood boxes. They go straight to the trash, I could make a lot of things from the wood.
  #38  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:23 AM
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It's a classic tactic of deniers. "Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!"
...
Yeah, and since the jist of the OP is right vs. left, I don't consider this a hijack. Right vs. left is a way to make it sound like merely a political difference. But it's not that. Scientists around the world are concerned about our effect on climate and the environment. It's pretty much American political conservatives who oppose the science.
  #39  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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It's a classic tactic of deniers. "Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!"

Antivaxers play this game too.
We used to be able to point to flat-earthers to show how ridiculous this argument is. I think these days they'd say "well, maybe they have a point!"
  #40  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:04 AM
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Really? What makes you think that?
The fact that climate change isnt a religion -- for one, it's not based on faith or a book written thousands of years ago, it's based on evidence.
  #41  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:23 AM
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You'll get no argument with me on that, Bobot. But you will get an argument from me on how best to address it. And as of now some of the solutions are loony bin lefty pipe dreams. I'm not in agreement with that.

The question you quoted, however, was in response to Babale and his/her assertion that this was all just done in jest, tongue and cheek.

I don't see any evidence of that. It seems quite serious to me.
  #42  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:26 AM
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I love the environment. It’s nice having air with oxygen and not too much lead. However, I have a confession. Sometimes I take 2 showers in a day.
Dude, you're an octopus: you should only take a really, really long bath.
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  #43  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:28 AM
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My carbon footprint is less than Al Gore's, so I'm golden. I have nothing to confess.
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I'm liking post 31. It's a good one, and I agree.
These are painfully stupid posts. Al Gore could be producing 2,000 tons of methane per year just for funsies, and it still wouldn't have shit to do with whether reducing your own carbon footprint is a good idea. It's like cutting out and eating your "extra" kidney just because you don't like somebody who advocates for organ donation.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:42 AM
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Post 31, not 30, Really Not All That Bright.
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:49 AM
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These are painfully stupid posts.
I am a painfully stupid poster. My apologies, HL.
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Last edited by Really Not All That Bright; 09-20-2019 at 11:49 AM.
  #46  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:00 PM
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What are you doing using a washing machine? That takes electricity! Sinner!

Can't speak for Roderick Femm, but my grandmother was English, living in England. The washing machine that she had back in the 1970s did not have a spin feature, so yes, a wringer was required. At some point she replaced the wringer with a separate machine whose sole purpose was the spin cycle. So wash the clothes in the washer, transfer them to the spinner, then transfer them to the clothesline. Fun times.

In Japan these days, it's pretty typical to have one single machine that does it all: wash, spin, heat-dry.
Sure, I've seen mangles in museums, but this isn't the 70s. My own washing machine is how you describe - that's pretty common - but most of the time it doesn't seem worth running the drying cycle.

It's just weird hearing people describe something as ordinary as hanging up your clothes to dry as a ridiculous, unrealistic thing to do.
  #47  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:08 PM
DemonTree is offline
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It would be easy to imagine a similar write-in: "Confess your diet sins!" Does that mean dieting is a religion? Not in general, but certain people can get pretty evangelical about their beliefs. I figure environmentalism is similar. Most people just do their best and try to follow the evidence, and a few go over the top and want to go back to living like cavemen, or use it as a way to feel superior to others.
  #48  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:23 PM
HurricaneDitka is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonTree View Post
It would be easy to imagine a similar write-in: "Confess your diet sins!" Does that mean dieting is a religion? Not in general, but certain people can get pretty evangelical about their beliefs. I figure environmentalism is similar. Most people just do their best and try to follow the evidence, and a few go over the top and want to go back to living like cavemen, or use it as a way to feel superior to others.
This is a high-quality post. Thanks!
  #49  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:32 PM
Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
It's a classic tactic of deniers. "Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!"

Antivaxers play this game too.

If your position is based on solid evidence that can be replicated by quality peer-reviewed published research, that somehow equates to sun worship.
Or son worship in this particular case.
  #50  
Old 09-20-2019, 12:35 PM
Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by DemonTree View Post
It would be easy to imagine a similar write-in: "Confess your diet sins!" Does that mean dieting is a religion? Not in general, but certain people can get pretty evangelical about their beliefs. I figure environmentalism is similar. Most people just do their best and try to follow the evidence, and a few go over the top and want to go back to living like cavemen, or use it as a way to feel superior to others.
It's not an issue that we just inferred. The OP explicitly stated the environmental movement is a religion. If he's going to dismiss science like that, he should expect a push-back.

And he brought up the subject of Right vs Left. So any discussions of ideology is legit.

If you want to leave politics out of the discussion, that's fine. But you don't get to push your own political agenda in the OP and then decree that nobody else is allowed to refute what you're said.

Last edited by Little Nemo; 09-20-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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