Alien 1979, deleted scene and the eggs

[grude]

There is a deleted scene on the Alien DVD where Ripley finds the still living crew members "cocooned" and in the process of being turned into facehugger eggs, Dallas begs her to burn them all with the flamethrower before it happens.

Assuming this had made it into the film was this supposed to be the origin of the eggs in the hold of the derelict? I always assumed it was clear by their placement and the laser alarm over them that they were cargo being hauled, instead of the crew of the derelict turned into eggs by the xenomorph that burst out of the famous pilot?

[Astral Rejection]

Aliens (the movie) kinda retconned the Alien's actions into just cocooning them to the wall. Sort of an instinctive behavior which would result in more aliens if there was an egg to place in front of them.

Incidentally, if you buy the Blu-ray quadrilogy, that's not a deleted scene anymore. It's been professionally remastered and inserted into the film.

[JMH125]

Originally Posted by grude

There is a deleted scene on the Alien DVD where Ripley finds the still living crew members "cocooned" and in the process of being turned into facehugger eggs, Dallas begs her to burn them all with the flamethrower before it happens.

Assuming this had made it into the film was this supposed to be the origin of the eggs in the hold of the derelict? I always assumed it was clear by their placement and the laser alarm over them that they were cargo being hauled, instead of the crew of the derelict turned into eggs by the xenomorph that burst out of the famous pilot?

yeah, that scene is in the official director cut. But it takes place on the Nostromo, not on the planet or in the derelict, so it would have no connection anyway.

[grude]

I meant was it there intention to imply the eggs in the derelict were the former crew, sort of a mirror image of what happened on the Nostromo.

[standingwave]

Originally Posted by grude

I meant was it there intention to imply the eggs in the derelict were the former crew, sort of a mirror image of what happened on the Nostromo.

I thought the eggs were laid by a queen?

Xenomorph life cycle.

[Great Antibob]

Originally Posted by standingwave

I thought the eggs were laid by a queen?

The idea that an egg-laying queen alien even exists was introduced in the sequel. The original concept was for eggs to be produced directly from the bodies of victims. As noted above, the scene showing the Nostromo crew being transformed into eggs was removed, leaving Cameron a bit more freedom in expanding on the xenomorph life cycle.

I think the batch of eggs on the alien ship were meant to be what's left of the derelict crew, but there's clearly enough ambiguity that all sorts of explanations can be retroactively inserted.

[DCnDC]

Interesting side note:

Giger, being Giger, originally designed the egg opening to resemble a vagina, but the producers objected so it was altered to the final design. (Interesting couple of articles about the movie and Giger. [pdf])

[JMH125]

it's not too late for them to make Prometheus sequels now with oozing vagina eggs haha.

[Hail Ants]

You should always remember that the original Alien is gothic horror first, scifi second. Even if the egg scene had been left in, its primary purpose was to be horrifying, not to pander to fanboys' interest in back story. Ridley Scott, having made two of the biggest fanboy films ever (the other being Blade Runner) makes a point of steering clear of any such discussions. It's just not something he's interested in (witness his constant statements that although, yes, they exist in the same fictional world Prometheus is not an Alien prequel film).

[holmes]

I always though the 'nest' scene tied in nicely with Ash's belief that the alien was 'perfect'. It's sole purpose was reproduction and by turning it's victims into eggs, it was simply perfect in design, function and execution of that goal.

[typoink]

Originally Posted by JMH125

yeah, that scene is in the official director cut.

Just wanted to note that the "official director's cut" of Alien isn't really. Scott DID make the cut, but he said it was just an alternate cut the studio wanted to renew interest. The original theatrical cut of Alien is his "director's cut" and is the film as he would still prefer to present it.

[BMax]

Originally Posted by holmes

I always though the 'nest' scene tied in nicely with Ash's belief that the alien was 'perfect'. It's sole purpose was reproduction and by turning it's victims into eggs, it was simply perfect in design, function and execution of that goal.

I don't recall Ashe saying the Alien was "perfect", but I thought he said "I admire it's purity"

[TreacherousCretin]

Originally Posted by BMax

I don't recall Ashe saying the Alien was "perfect", but I thought he said "I admire it's purity"

Ash: You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? A perfect organism. Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.
Lambert: You admire it.
Ash: I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality

[Enigma42]

Originally Posted by DCnDC

Interesting side note:

Giger, being Giger, originally designed the egg opening to resemble a vagina, but the producers objected so it was altered to the final design. (Interesting couple of articles about the movie and Giger. [pdf])

Interesting reading, thanks for linking those articles.
Did anyone else think that Giler came across as a complete jerk in his interview? He was pretty harsh in his treatment of Dan O'Bannon. I don't how much truth there might be in his statements, but he was remarkably free of tact. I guess the producer doesn't have to treat a lowly writer with any degree of diplomacy. . .

[Sister Vigilante]

If it's a Queen now laying eggs, why then in Alien 4 do they still glue people to the walls like the cut scene in Alien 1?

And if Prometheus isn't a prequel to Alien, why then

SPOILER:

is there a freaking ALIEN at the end of the film?

[JMH125]

Do you think it's possible to have the deleted scene with people turning into eggs, AND the Queen laying eggs? what if a single alien, without the presence of a queen, has the ability to propagate the species? Albeit slowly. the Queen is much, much more efficient.

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante

And if Prometheus isn't a prequel to Alien, why then[/spoiler]

It's a prequel in the sense that it's set in the same universe and takes place prior to the events of Alien. It's obviously related in some ways. It's not a prequel in the sense that it necessarily directly sets up the events of Alien.

[holmes]

Originally Posted by JMH125

Do you think it's possible to have the deleted scene with people turning into eggs, AND the Queen laying eggs? what if a single alien, without the presence of a queen, has the ability to propagate the species? Albeit slowly. the Queen is much, much more efficient.

That was always my personal way to unify the two processes. The first alien collects material (hosts) to create a queen facehugger. Once she's 'born' and matures, she takes over the reproduction and begins laying eggs en mass.

This works because if there's not enough hosts to support a hive, then a queen isn't needed and is wasted; but an egg will have been created to release a queen when/if the need arises.

[holmes]

Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante

If it's a Queen now laying eggs, why then in Alien 4 do they still glue people to the walls like the cut scene in Alien 1?

They are held to walls for a dual purpose: one is to keep them still so the facehuggers can get easy access to them and then they are held so that they can't escape/or kill the alien that is growing inside them.

[Great Antibob]

Originally Posted by Enigma42

I don't how much truth there might be in his statements, but he was remarkably free of tact. I guess the producer doesn't have to treat a lowly writer with any degree of diplomacy. . .

He did come across a bit harsh, but O'Bannon really was a hack writer. I think it was a matter of how poorly his script came across. Having read some of the original script ideas, it appears they turned a horrible retread of bad 50s SF and instead redefined the genre, with some help from brilliant visual designers and Ridley Scott, of course.

[JMH125]

Was Obannon that bad? i didn't realize his version of the alien script had been changed so much. i'm curious to read it now.....

EDIT: oh, lookey

http://www.dailyscript.com/scripts/alien_early.html

[JMH125]

Wow, the Nostromo was originally called SNARK. Maybe it's better they did rewrite this story!!!

[si_blakely]

Originally Posted by grude

There is a deleted scene on the Alien DVD where Ripley finds the still living crew members "cocooned" and in the process of being turned into facehugger eggs, Dallas begs her to burn them all with the flamethrower before it happens.

I read the novelisation, but I'm pretty sure I've seen the scene.

The crew were glued to the wall with eggs in front of them - they were not turning into eggs, they were stored hosts - once the eggs matured, they would get facehugged, and chest-bursted.

The aliens, like many social insects, can modify themselves based on the social situation. The lone emerged alien can lay eggs to propagate. If there are lots of aliens and hosts, and a social structure develops, then a drone becomes an egg-producing Queen, as in Aliens.

Si

[Patch]

Originally Posted by JMH125

Wow, the Nostromo was originally called SNARK. Maybe it's better they did rewrite this story!!!

"Captain Chaz Standard"?

[holmes]

Originally Posted by si_blakely

I read the novelisation, but I'm pretty sure I've seen the scene.

The crew were glued to the wall with eggs in front of them - they were not turning into eggs, they were stored hosts - once the eggs matured, they would get facehugged, and chest-bursted.

Si

You are mistaken.

[Glory]

How interesting. It is my interpretation that the crew is glued to the wall and are acting as stored hosts. I read the novelization as a kid and when I watch the youtube link provided, it looks like Dallas is behind an opened egg (implying he has an alien inside him and that's why he begs for death). I'm open to a new interpretation, but I'm not sure how a person would turn into an egg?

[holmes]

Originally Posted by Glory

How interesting. It is my interpretation that the crew is glued to the wall and are acting as stored hosts. I read the novelization as a kid and when I watch the youtube link provided, it looks like Dallas is behind an opened egg (implying he has an alien inside him and that's why he begs for death). I'm open to a new interpretation, but I'm not sure how a person would turn into an egg?

Brett is next to him and is nearly dissolved into the egg. My fanwank is the alien implants a facehugger larvae into/attached to Brett and Dallas and it feeds off their bodies growing and building an egg case around them.

If you notice Brett's 'egg' is smaller than Dallas' and both are larger than a traditional completed egg, which shrinks as it absorbs the host's bodies.

[JMH125]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgSRKY8ctjI

[si_blakely]

Originally Posted by holmes

You are mistaken.

I agree, I was mistaken as to the film version. I'll have to see if I can find the novelization, to see how that played it. Then maybe I can blame Alan Dean Foster.

Si

[JMH125]

Originally Posted by Great Antibob

He did come across a bit harsh, but O'Bannon really was a hack writer. I think it was a matter of how poorly his script came across. Having read some of the original script ideas, it appears they turned a horrible retread of bad 50s SF and instead redefined the genre, with some help from brilliant visual designers and Ridley Scott, of course.

Well, i've read over half of the script by Obannon. It does read very, very similar to the movie. I absolutely see why he was given the script credit, the movie hits most of the beats and menace implied in the screenplay. Yes, the names were all changed. A lot of the dialog (but not all) was changed. The characters were made much more believable, and Walter Hill added the whole subplot with the android. They find the facehugger in a separate pyramid from the crashed derelict ship (which reminds me of Prometheus). When the facehugger dies it actually decomposes into acid and they have to throw the carcass out of the airlock. They later capture the growing alien inside food storage and try to poison it with gas. Not only does the xenomorph eat their food supplies, it is also seen gnawing on a human thigh bone and a human arm, something that was removed from any future iterations of the xenomorph. The survivors also have a plan to corral the alien into the lifeboat and detonate it remotely. The spore/egg room where survivors are kept (the deleted scene from the movie) is intact in the original screenplay.

And here's the end of the screenplay:

INTERIOR - LIFEBOAT - LATER

The boat is re-pressurized and Roby is seated in the control chair. He
seems calm and composed, almost cheerful. The cat purrs in his lap.

ROBY
(dictating)
... So it looks like I'll make it
back to the Colonies on schedule
after all. I should be to the
frontier in another 250 years or so,
and then with a little luck the
network will pick me up. I'm not as
rich as I was a couple days ago --
but I'm not exactly broke either.
Incidentally, I did manage to
salvage one souvenir out of this
whole mess.

He reaches down into the carrying bag he brought on board, and pulls
out the ALIEN SKULL.

ROBY (CONT'D)
Poor Yorick here should go at least
partway toward proving I'm not a
crank. I wish it was him we'd met in
the first place -- things might have
turned out different.

He puts the skull down on a shelf and locks a glass lid over it.

ROBY (CONT'D)
This is Martin Roby, executive
officer, last survivor of the
commercial vessel SNARK, signing off.
Come on, cat, let's go to sleep.

Roby leans forward and switches off the recorder. Then he rises and,
carrying the cat, walks to the hypersleep freezer, which stands open.

He climbs in and stretches out on his back, holding the cat against
his chest. With one hand, he presses a switch, and THE LID CLOSES OVER
HIM.

CLOSE-UP OF THE ALIEN SKULL, watching sentinel over the slumbering
Roby like some dead, melancholy pixie.

EXTERIOR - OUTER SPACE

The lifeboat -- SNARK 2 -- sails away toward its rendezvous with Irth,
250 years from now.

As SNARK 2 drifts past camera, we suddenly see that A SPORE POD IS
ADHERED TO THE UNDERBELLY OF THE CRAFT.

ROLL END TITLES & MUSIC.

THE END

[Hail Ants]

Everything I've read and seen about Dan O'Bannon makes me think that he essentially is the character Sgt. Pinback from Dark Star! Which is really cool in terms of being a fan of his work, but probably less so for people who have to actually deal with him on a day-to-day basis...

[Sister Vigilante]

Interesting, I'd never caught that part with the one guy turning into an egg before, even though I had seen the deleted scene. I had always assumed that the first alien to be "born" if not already a queen, would change sex to become a queen and then go about the egg laying.

It still doesn't answer why they are still gluing them to the walls in Resurrection, with a queen right there in the same room.

[JMH125]

Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante

It still doesn't answer why they are still gluing them to the walls in Resurrection, with a queen right there in the same room.

Well, a) i'd say for restraint so they can't escape, and b) by the time part 4 rolled around the series had lost all credibility. It was not making a whole lot of sense.

When i think about it.....they took Ripley's blood sample, and used that to clone her AND the alien? Why would the alien's DNA be in ripley's blood? It's a parasite. They don't share blood, one has acid for blood, it's lethal.

[mlees]

Originally Posted by JMH125

When i think about it.....they took Ripley's blood sample, and used that to clone her AND the alien? Why would the alien's DNA be in ripley's blood? It's a parasite. They don't share blood, one has acid for blood, it's lethal.

Movie three suggested that the alien parasite ends up looking a little like whatever host it was implanted in. (Dog alien.)

Fanwank: That suggests that there might be some exchange of DNA during the incubation stage. Most hosts get chest bursted, so usually the host doesn't have time to derive any benefit from this exchange.

[psiekier]

Originally Posted by Sister Vigilante

Interesting, I'd never caught that part with the one guy turning into an egg before, even though I had seen the deleted scene. I had always assumed that the first alien to be "born" if not already a queen, would change sex to become a queen and then go about the egg laying.

I'd never seen that scene, either. The only "extended" movie I have is the second one, which is not only the best of the four, but also my favorite movie of all time.

In the original Colonial Marines Technical Manual (there's what looks like a newer reprint available, too), which, although beautiful is hardly canon (and with AvP, who can tell what is any more?), I seem to recall the implication that a single drone/warrior alien could manage to squeeze out or cobble together one egg (as JMH125 suggests), which might then hatch a queen able to start a new colony.

It still doesn't answer why they are still gluing them to the walls in Resurrection, with a queen right there in the same room.

Like holmes said, it's an adaption to make sure that your hosts don't leave or find some way to prevent or remove the implanted alien.

Of course, that didn't work for John J. Mericheck anyway.

[Elendil's Heir]

Originally Posted by JMH125

Do you think it's possible to have the deleted scene with people turning into eggs, AND the Queen laying eggs? what if a single alien, without the presence of a queen, has the ability to propagate the species? Albeit slowly. the Queen is much, much more efficient.

That's what I thought. A perfect organism, evolved (or designed?) to survive no matter what, would have several different options for reproduction, and would resort to whichever was optimal under the circumstances.

[TreacherousCretin]

Originally Posted by mlees

Movie three suggested that the alien parasite ends up looking a little like whatever host it was implanted in. (Dog alien.)

It's pretty strongly suggested in Alien. Ash refers to the alien as "Kane's son."
.

[levdrakon]

Originally Posted by Elendil's Heir

That's what I thought. A perfect organism, evolved (or designed?) to survive no matter what, would have several different options for reproduction, and would resort to whichever was optimal under the circumstances.

Have you seen AvP? Boy do they have options.

[DWMarch]

Originally Posted by levdrakon

Have you seen AvP? Boy do they have options.

The queen pumps out eggs in conventional fashion in AVP. But in AVP:R there is a scene in which the PredAlien pumps a bunch of embryos down the throats of pregnant women. The Strauss brothers said this was a method for a queen to quickly establish some protection before she sets up a nest.

[mlees]

In Alien, didn't the facehugger somehow get through the helmet faceplate?

They didn't seem to carry this trait forward in the later films.

[holmes]

It used acid to melt the faceplate.

I believe the one that got Ripley in Aliens3, used its acid to melt into her suspended animation 'coffin' and facehug her. The reason we don't see the facehuggers use that technique often, is because it's only needed when the host is protected by some barrier, such as a helmet.

In most of the films, once the initial person is infected, the aliens are eventually brought into an environment that doesn't require their hosts to be wearing helmets or the victims are pasted onto a wall and exposed; so there's no need for the facehuggers to use their acid as a barrier remover...because there isn't one.