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  #51  
Old 02-02-2017, 07:12 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
I can't tell you where a payphone is anymore, much less an actual phone booth. They're up there with coelacanths as far as things that are still alive, but rarely seen.
Public libraries usually have pay phones. I can only assume because they see themselves as hubs of public services, as much as book repositories. Homeless people, people who can't otherwise afford phones, and people whose phones break, or who need to call tech serve and don't have another phone or place to do it can go to the library.

Service stations still frequently have one, so they can tell stranded motorists to use it. If your car has broken down on a trip, there is a chance your phone hasn't been charged. If they don't have one, then they have customers asking to use the house phone for what may be long distance calls, and often very long calls (and while they may not get charged more for them, dialing out for one may be a complicated process that requires someone to disrupt an employee's work to explain it), or multiple calls, if they have to make arrangements for picking up kids, say.

Other than that, I can't remember seeing one. However, I know of a university library that took the payphones out of their booths, but kept the booths, and asks that you make voice calls on your cell phones in the booths; otherwise, texting only in other parts of the library.
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  #52  
Old 02-02-2017, 12:09 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is online now
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Originally Posted by Lemur866 View Post
Most of these examples don't actually make the movie dated. If the movie is set in the 1980s, and the people dress in 80s styles and speak in 80s slang and exhibit 80s social attitudes, that doesn't make it dated. Same if it's set in the 30s, and the people dress in 30s styles and so on.

You wouldn't call a movie set in WWII dated because the US army doesn't have ICMBs and Abrams tanks and M-16 rifles and F-15 fighters, right? You'd expect characters who are supposed to be fighting WWII to use the weapons actually used in WWII. And if those characters have the sorts of social attitudes that real people did in the 1940s, that doesn't make the movie dated either.
Well, yes, I expect the fashions and slang (and hairstyles, and cars...) to be different, but there's more to it. War movies made back in the '40s and '50s seem sanitized, somehow; full of clean-shaven, matinee-idol soldiers who never swear or bleed and write a letter every day to their girl back home. It's like something out of Life magazine, or a recruitment poster. Compare that to something like Saving Private Ryan. I can't really say which is more accurate, but the older ones are dated.

I mentioned My Man Godfrey earlier. It starts with Irene going to the city dump to look for a "forgotten man" for a scavenger hunt, and the men who live there speak like they're in an Oscar Wilde play. It's a fabulous movie, but the attitudes and manners are incredibly dated. I don't think it was even intended to be realistic when it was made in the '30s. It was escapism then; it's dated now because it carries such a strong sense of what people then went to the movies to escape from.
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  #53  
Old 02-03-2017, 11:34 AM
bump bump is online now
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Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
Well, yes, I expect the fashions and slang (and hairstyles, and cars...) to be different, but there's more to it. War movies made back in the '40s and '50s seem sanitized, somehow; full of clean-shaven, matinee-idol soldiers who never swear or bleed and write a letter every day to their girl back home. It's like something out of Life magazine, or a recruitment poster. Compare that to something like Saving Private Ryan. I can't really say which is more accurate, but the older ones are dated.
Right- it's when the movie's portrayal pins the movie within the time period of the movie's release, not in the time period as described within the movie itself.

So a 1950s-1960s war movie set in WWII might seem dated, because there's a very 1950s-1960s sensibility to the way things are portrayed that wasn't necessarily so in the actual war.

But there's a similar phenomenon that happens when a movie is such a product of its time that no longer appropriate cultural mores and attitudes of the time shine through and make the movie clearly a product of a different time and place. For example, the Louis Skolnick/Betty Grable rape scene in "Revenge of the Nerds", or the tension, etc... of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" are movies which are dated, in that the attitudes in the movie are pretty far removed from today's attitudes. I mean, if you were to refilm "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner", you couldn't play it for laughs like the original; the parents would have to be unreformed racists for the premise to even be valid. Similarly, having the nerdy hero of the story have sex with the head cheerleader while wearing her boyfriend's Halloween costume as a ruse would be entirely unacceptable today.
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  #54  
Old 02-03-2017, 12:28 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Originally Posted by Lemur866 View Post
You wouldn't call a movie set in WWII dated because the US army doesn't have ICMBs and Abrams tanks and M-16 rifles and F-15 fighters, right? You'd expect characters who are supposed to be fighting WWII to use the weapons actually used in WWII. And if those characters have the sorts of social attitudes that real people did in the 1940s, that doesn't make the movie dated either.

What makes a movie dated is when the characters don't actually act realistically for the time the movie is set in. So a movie made in the 1950s and set in the old west, but the characters act like 1950s suburbanites is dated. If the movie was made in the 1950s and set in the old west and the characters believably act like people from the old west, then it isn't dated, even though the characters don't act like people from 2017. And a movie made in the 50s that depicts people wearing 50s hairstyles and acting like people from the 1950s is not dated either.
You're talking about Kelly's Heroes, which inexplicably had a bunch of hippies in the middle of World War II.
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  #55  
Old 02-03-2017, 01:30 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
But there's a similar phenomenon that happens when a movie is such a product of its time that no longer appropriate cultural mores and attitudes of the time shine through and make the movie clearly a product of a different time and place. For example, the Louis Skolnick/Betty Grable rape scene in "Revenge of the Nerds", or the tension, etc... of "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" are movies which are dated, in that the attitudes in the movie are pretty far removed from today's attitudes.
Wait, what? Betty Grable died in 1973, and was not in Revenge of the Nerds.
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  #56  
Old 02-03-2017, 02:52 PM
bump bump is online now
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
Wait, what? Betty Grable died in 1973, and was not in Revenge of the Nerds.
Crap... got my character names mixed up... the character was "Betty Childs", and Ted McGinley's was 'Stan Gable' ,and I somehow combined them into "Betty Grable"
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  #57  
Old 02-03-2017, 07:42 PM
LC Strawhouse LC Strawhouse is offline
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Any pretentious art film from the late-60s through early 80s. Bonus points if it includes a cringe-inducing "intellectual" treatment of some sleazy sexual situation.

Characteristic examples:

Persona by Ingmar Bergman
Heart of Glass by Werner Herzog
The Night Porter
Swept Away
Play it Again Sam by Woody Allen
Fellini's Casanova

etc, etc. Somehow movies like this suckered a generation of critics and film students.
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  #58  
Old 02-03-2017, 09:18 PM
Ukulele Ike Ukulele Ike is offline
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Very entertaining thread, folks!

Nothing else to add...except 1930's Walt Disney short cartoons. In contemporary times, we know that animals don't wear gloves.
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  #59  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:00 AM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
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Originally Posted by buddha_david View Post
American Beauty is completely dated throughout, especially Chris Cooper's subplot as the homophobic Marine.
I never really liked the movie much, but dated in what way? A repressed, violent, homophobic, gay marine doesn't seem an outre thing to me in 2017, let alone 1999.

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Originally Posted by Just Asking Questions View Post
Holly's a hooker that doesn't go all the way.
According to Capote, Holly was a not-quite-call girl - a professional date for "gifts" ( not necessarily cash ), who'd sleep with you if she felt like it. But she did go all the way, just on her own terms. A fine distinction perhaps.

ETA: Oh and I'n another who doesn't think Ordinary People is all that dated. Didn't deserve Best Picture, but it's a solid movie about a family disintegrating over a tragedy.

Last edited by Tamerlane; 02-04-2017 at 12:03 AM..
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  #60  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:29 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
I never really liked the movie much, but dated in what way? A repressed, violent, homophobic, gay marine doesn't seem an outre thing to me in 2017, let alone 1999.
I didn't see "American Beauty" until a few years after it was in theaters, in large part because so many people said they didn't like it.

When I saw it, I found out why they didn't like it. It's because far too many of them were living it themselves.
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  #61  
Old 02-04-2017, 02:04 AM
Derleth Derleth is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
You're talking about Kelly's Heroes, which inexplicably had a bunch of hippies in the middle of World War II.
Similarly, the "M*A*S*H*" TV show became dated in the same way, particularly as regards the gay servicemember the doctors were trying to keep in the Army: Back in the 1950s, the progressive mainstream attitude towards homosexuality was that it was a mental illness but not any more immoral than, say, epilepsy. It wasn't removed from the DSM until the 1970s. During the Korean War, the idea that being gay wasn't in any sense an inherent problem was the domain of what were then radical gay rights groups such as the Mattachine Society.

I always thought Casablanca's MacGuffin is dated, in that it assumes the Nazis would respect the written rule of law (and, therefore, the travel documents) to the extent it would prevent them from capturing a dissident. Of course, the larger context of the whole show is that Rick could presumably have been doing much more to help the refugees, had he stuck his neck out a bit, but he didn't, which makes Rick look a bit monstrous once you know about the Holocaust.
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  #62  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:22 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by Derleth View Post
Similarly, the "M*A*S*H*" TV show became dated in the same way, particularly as regards the gay servicemember the doctors were trying to keep in the Army: Back in the 1950s, the progressive mainstream attitude towards homosexuality was that it was a mental illness but not any more immoral than, say, epilepsy. It wasn't removed from the DSM until the 1970s. During the Korean War, the idea that being gay wasn't in any sense an inherent problem was the domain of what were then radical gay rights groups such as the Mattachine Society.
Yeah. In the 1970s and early 80s, my parents held the extreme radical liberal position on homosexuality (for straight people), which was that as long as people kept it to themselves (which is to say, no PDAs, except maybe ambiguous lingering hugs), they could do whatever they wanted in private. I didn't question it until I got to high school.

FWIW, my brother and I had a gay babysitter, and my parents didn't have a problem with him, and my mother (my father is deceased) is now in favor of same-sex marriage, adoption, and generally against PDAs for everyone. Especially on her lawn.
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  #63  
Old 02-04-2017, 08:43 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is online now
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Originally Posted by LC Strawhouse View Post
Any pretentious art film from the late-60s through early 80s. Bonus points if it includes a cringe-inducing "intellectual" treatment of some sleazy sexual situation.

Characteristic examples:

Persona by Ingmar Bergman
Heart of Glass by Werner Herzog
The Night Porter
Swept Away
Play it Again Sam by Woody Allen
Fellini's Casanova

etc, etc. Somehow movies like this suckered a generation of critics and film students.
Or, they actually were challenging movies that went over your head. Persona is a truly great film, while Play It Again Sam never had any reputation other than being a funny comedy (no critic ever listed it among Allen's best).
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  #64  
Old 02-04-2017, 09:47 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by RealityChuck View Post
Or, they actually were challenging movies that went over your head. Persona is a truly great film, while Play It Again Sam never had any reputation other than being a funny comedy (no critic ever listed it among Allen's best).
Ooooooooooh. Bull's eye.
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  #65  
Old 02-04-2017, 10:44 AM
salinqmind salinqmind is offline
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
That's not even the worst of it. There's also Holly making her living as a professional "date" and Paul's status as a kept man, plus Holly's marriage to Doc at 14.
It seemed a little disconcerting that Paul was 'kept' by a woman, played by Patricia Neal. I think even Truman Capote admitted he switched the sex of the 'keeper' so the movie could be even made. (Same thing with another movie, 'The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone', where there is a whole sub-set of bored, rich, middle-aged American expatriate women living in Rome, arranging with an elderly female 'pimp' who provides 'escorts' of hunky young Italian gigolos. It could happen, I guess, but are there actually a lot of randy rich WOMEN yearning for a little sumpin' sumpin' from handsome young men?
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  #66  
Old 02-04-2017, 10:53 AM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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Originally Posted by Ethilrist View Post
And if somebody released a movie with that scene in it today, he'd be burned at the stake.

I nominate Blazing Saddles, because people are not comfortable with that much use of the n-word in movies today (hence the need for the word "n-word"...).
Not comfortable? Have you seen any Tarantino movies lately? I really couldn't count the number of movies in which nigger is used, both by blacks and whites. Any realistic movie dealing with low-lifes and criminals is peppered with the word.
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  #67  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:12 AM
Bill Door Bill Door is online now
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As I've aged movies in which older people are treated poorly have become a little uncomfortable. For example, remember that Twilight Zone episode "Kick the Can" in which that feeble old fart gets left behind at the retirement home? Yeah, I'm more than a decade older than he was when he filmed that, and it creeps me out to watch it.

Same with Gloria Swanson in Sunset Boulevard. When that was filmed she was seven years younger than Michelle Pfeiffer is right now, and she was portrayed as a pathetic old crone. Fifty-one years old. I've got shoes that are almost that old.

It seems in general that people in old movies were considered used up by fifty, ready for the slag heap.
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  #68  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:17 AM
aldiboronti aldiboronti is offline
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Originally Posted by Ukulele Ike View Post
Very entertaining thread, folks!

Nothing else to add...except 1930's Walt Disney short cartoons. In contemporary times, we know that animals don't wear gloves.
Speaking of cartoons Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs directed by the great Robert Clampett and one of the best cartoons ever made could never be made today. "Clampett intended Coal Black as both a parody of Snow White and a dedication to the all-black jazz musical films popular in the early 1940s." He used black actors for some of the characters, although of course the amazing Mel Blanc is there too. The main role So White (that cracks me up every time I hear it) is voiced by Vivian Dandridge, sister of the famous Dorothy, and their mother Ruby brought the Wicked Queen to life.

I'd love to see a pristine copy of this, the ones on the net are of terrible quality.
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  #69  
Old 02-04-2017, 12:02 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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Originally Posted by Tamerlane View Post
According to Capote, Holly was a not-quite-call girl - a professional date for "gifts" ( not necessarily cash ), who'd sleep with you if she felt like it. But she did go all the way, just on her own terms. A fine distinction perhaps.
Which in its way is worse than being a hooker. At least with a hooker the terms of the transaction are clear to both parties from the start.

I always found the movie confusing because it was unclear (possibly deliberately so) to what extent Holly was leading her "dates" on about whether she would sleep with them. That wouldn't be left ambiguous today.
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  #70  
Old 02-04-2017, 01:31 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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I don't know if it counts as dated since I suppose it is possible that attitiudes were really that way, but the ending of Saturday night fever just seemed wrong to my modern sensibilities. That a woman who had just almost been raped by a guy the night before, would just brush it off when he says he's sorry and is going to get his life back together, made me want to scream at the screen.

A second nomination would be Red Dawn. Given what we know about the state of the soviet union post cold war, its hard to take seriously the idea that they could launch a sucessful invasion of the US mainland is ludicrous.
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  #71  
Old 02-04-2017, 11:03 PM
Colibri Colibri is offline
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I just rewatched Alfred Hitchcock's Spellbound. It's incredibly dated with it's reliance on psychoanalysis and dream analysis, as well as the "love at first sight" between Ingrid Bergman and Gregory Peck. Bergman's involvement with her patient Peck would never fly today.
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  #72  
Old 02-05-2017, 09:52 AM
ftg ftg is offline
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Originally Posted by LC Strawhouse View Post
Any pretentious art film from the late-60s through early 80s. Bonus points if it includes a cringe-inducing "intellectual" treatment of some sleazy sexual situation.

Characteristic examples:

Persona by Ingmar Bergman
Heart of Glass by Werner Herzog
The Night Porter
Swept Away
Play it Again Sam by Woody Allen
Fellini's Casanova
Haven't seen Heart of Glass. Swept Away and Fellini's Casanova were terrible films new.

Persona and The Night Porter are very fine films with difficult subject matters.

The one on the list that puzzled me was Play it Again Sam. I rewatched this a few years ago and still found it a superb film. Dated? Not so much. Then it hit me ...

Tony Roberts going to the nearest pay phone all the time to update them on what number they can reach him at. And of course the numbers are all KLondike-5.
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  #73  
Old 02-17-2017, 10:51 AM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is online now
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Christine. Where ya gonna find a self-service mechanic these days? And not only would that car get crushed but ran through an industrial shredder, separated, and recycled. Let's see LeBay's ghost reassemble that!
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  #74  
Old 02-18-2017, 03:05 PM
TBG TBG is offline
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Originally Posted by bump View Post
Phone Booth comes to mind- when was the last time anyone actually saw a phone booth in the wild? Even 15 years ago, they were an endangered species, but if they're not extinct now, they're awfully close.
Wasn't that mentioned in the story. Something about it being the last (or almost last) phone booth in the city. I haven't seen it in years, but I seem to remember some sort of lampshade hanging on it,

Anyway playing dated movies is what TCM does. Thankfully they haven't turned into a general purpose "just show whatever" station like AMC did (not that I don't like many AMC shows, but when it comes to movies they're now all drawn from the same pool of fairly recent stuff TBS, TNT, USA, FX, Comedy Central, etc all seem to draw from, and in the same "edited for TV" cuts that should have long since died out)
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  #75  
Old 02-18-2017, 07:21 PM
Melbourne Melbourne is offline
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Originally Posted by Brown Eyed Girl View Post
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest because we don't institutionalize the mentally ill anymore. Well, we do, but with prison instead.
It's been a long time since I saw it, so maybe you're right. But (1) It was completely out of date at the time it was released, and (2) Most people had no idea what conditions in mental institutions were really like, and (3) That's still the case.
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  #76  
Old 02-18-2017, 08:12 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
It's been a long time since I saw it, so maybe you're right. But (1) It was completely out of date at the time it was released, and (2) Most people had no idea what conditions in mental institutions were really like, and (3) That's still the case.
It basically dropped a 1950s institution into the 1970s.
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