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  #51  
Old 02-09-2017, 08:39 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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How does Martian Marines training in full G workout? I mean I get it must involve space stations spun up to provide 1G, but in the Belt .33G is standard and Belters can barely survive on Earth outside of special tanks. Martian gravity is only about .4G so physiological Martians shouldn't be much different than Belters. Even with training & powered armor I doubt they'd be much of a match in ground combat with Earth Marines (who likely also have powered armor). Also I wasn't expecting them to blow up Deimos; I thought they were just bombing an outpost on it. The Martian government is showing amazing restraint given the circumstances.
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  #52  
Old 02-09-2017, 09:53 PM
zwede zwede is offline
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There are drugs that hold off the low-G effects. But they are expensive and many belters take low quality versions or skip them all together. Those are the ones that can not survive on earth and look really skinny.

The marines would have access to the high quality stuff and so be able to stand 1G.
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  #53  
Old 02-10-2017, 03:09 AM
Dr. Strangelove Dr. Strangelove is online now
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How does Martian Marines training in full G workout?
The ships accelerate at one gee, and they spend long periods of time at that acceleration.

The Belters get ~1/3 gee at most. That's if you live in the nicer area of Ceres--close to the surface. But if you live closer to the core, or on one of the lesser rocks, or on one of the crappier ships that can't sustain that acceleration, then you make do with less.
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  #54  
Old 02-10-2017, 04:48 AM
scabpicker scabpicker is offline
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Side note: Audio was much better this episode
It was, but I still rewound (heh, archaic, but convenient) to catch a few things I missed, mostly due to accents. I'm pretty good at getting past them, but the variety in this show can be daunting. I don't want them to stop at all, it gives a depth to the show, but I still find myself rewinding to catch stuff

Speaking of accents, private Travis (the Martian transplant who is supposed to be originally from Texas) sounds accurate to contemporary accents. His "whaddayoucallme?" was perfect. Almost every utterance from him has the drawl and mush mouth that I associate with my home state. I imagine he could pronounce my two-syllable name as a single syllable just like my mother did. The actor, Mpho Koaho, is from fucking Toronto, and is probably an accent genius.

Alex, who is supposed to speak with an exaggerated Texas accent due to being from the Mariner Valley, sounds like he's from New Orleans, to me. I only looked it up because I wondered if he was supposed to be from Louisiana. It's not exactly exaggerated, but it's close geographically, I guess. It's got a drawl to it, but the vowels are, for lack of a better word, wrong. Ehh, it's been transplanted to Mars. I'll live.

Plus, I hope the Mariner Valley's lasagna isn't inspired by what you're likely to be offered in some historical Texas settings as lasagna. You can get good homemade lasagna here, but the experience in my childhood was informed by Better Homes and Gardens. The internet has thankfully killed that excuse.


It was a nice, chilling opening sequence, down to the prognostications of how the opening actions might play out by various parties.

The more I experience Amos' character, the more I like and understand him. He may see the world in more simplistic terms than I do, but he has an understanding of how the world works. All of the characters in this story have depth, but he seems to be the one who's realism is done surprisingly well. I've known people who within an hour of knowing them, you get the sense that "This person has killed people and saw it as part of the job to be done. So, on some level, that's never actually off the table", no matter how smart and well-reasoned they are. Amos rings very true to that.

Really, the show is so well written, that I will read the books afterward. But I don't want to spoil the story, even if they do deviate significantly.
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  #55  
Old 02-10-2017, 10:38 AM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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Originally Posted by scabpicker View Post
Alex, who is supposed to speak with an exaggerated Texas accent due to being from the Mariner Valley, sounds like he's from New Orleans, to me. I only looked it up because I wondered if he was supposed to be from Louisiana. It's not exactly exaggerated, but it's close geographically, I guess. It's got a drawl to it, but the vowels are, for lack of a better word, wrong. Ehh, it's been transplanted to Mars. I'll live.

From the books, I always got the impression that the "Martian Drawl" was more of an affectation than a real accent, something they put on to tweak the Earthers. Kind of like Canadians doing a Bob&Doug McKenzie bit. So it makes sense that it isn't actually a real accent so much as a bad fake accent.



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The more I experience Amos' character, the more I like and understand him. He may see the world in more simplistic terms than I do, but he has an understanding of how the world works. All of the characters in this story have depth, but he seems to be the one who's realism is done surprisingly well.


Yeah, he's really starting to shine in this season. Last year he was pretty much a cipher, but now he's getting more to do, and the actor's work is making that even better. I liked the little touches like when he was drinking with Miller - that full-eye squint after taking a shot sort of conveys the feeling that Miller isn't drinking the Good Stuff.
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  #56  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:23 AM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is offline
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After the last episode, I've got to walk back my complaint about the Roci being unreasonably effective in combat. Alex clearly knows that they were stupid lucky, even with the element of surprise, and should have been blown to pieces by the stealth warship. But he's not happy with that, and is continually reviewing recordings of the battle, and repeating simulations.

I'll take that as a reasonable transition from "transport pilot with a long but unremarkable career" to "bestest pilot EVAR!!1!"

Last edited by lazybratsche; 02-10-2017 at 11:25 AM..
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  #57  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:29 AM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is offline
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
From the books, I always got the impression that the "Martian Drawl" was more of an affectation than a real accent, something they put on to tweak the Earthers. Kind of like Canadians doing a Bob&Doug McKenzie bit. So it makes sense that it isn't actually a real accent so much as a bad fake accent.
My impression was that the accent may have started as an affectation, but after a few generations of the Wild West mythos getting baked into the culture, and more than a few Texan immigrants, it's as "real" an accent as any other. Just one that happens to sound more like a bad impression of Spaghetti Westerns.

Last edited by lazybratsche; 02-10-2017 at 11:30 AM..
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  #58  
Old 02-10-2017, 11:34 AM
MeanJoe MeanJoe is offline
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Originally Posted by zwede View Post
That's why they dosed all the people on Eros with enough gamma radiation that they'd all be dead within hours. The protomolecule just needs biomass, doesn't have to be alive.
True but the radiation is a catalyst to the protomolecule. It is why it massed on the reactor of the martial ship in Season 1. When the reactor was off, it was sitting fairly dormant but once it was turned on it became very active again. It is also why Julie Mao was smashing all the various lights/monitors in her room on Eros, to try and slow down or prevent the reaction from spreading.

MeanJoe
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  #59  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:55 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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What exactly is Chrisjen Avasarala's role in the UN government? I know she's the "Assistant Undersecretary of Executive Administration" and immediate boss is, logically enough, the "Undersecretary of Executive Administration". So is she basically the Secretary-General's deputy chief of staff, or the 2nd or 3rd highest official if the government? One would think there would be a Secretary rank in between Secretary-General and Undersecretary (& presumable other departments besides Executive Administration). It sure seems like her and Sadavir are in charge of homeworld security and/or the military.
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  #60  
Old 02-17-2017, 03:57 AM
scabpicker scabpicker is offline
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Best line in the series so far, possibly the best line in Sci-Fi:

"Man, the Mormons are gonna be pissed."
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  #61  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:36 AM
MHaas MHaas is offline
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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
What exactly is Chrisjen Avasarala's role in the UN government? I know she's the "Assistant Undersecretary of Executive Administration" and immediate boss is, logically enough, the "Undersecretary of Executive Administration". So is she basically the Secretary-General's deputy chief of staff, or the 2nd or 3rd highest official if the government? One would think there would be a Secretary rank in between Secretary-General and Undersecretary (& presumable other departments besides Executive Administration). It sure seems like her and Sadavir are in charge of homeworld security and/or the military.
If you're a West Wing fan, I always had her in my mind as the Josh Lyman to Errinwright's (her boss) Leo McGarry.
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  #62  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:38 AM
MHaas MHaas is offline
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Best line in the series so far, possibly the best line in Sci-Fi:

"Man, the Mormons are gonna be pissed."
That was good. Also, the perpetual adolescent in me got a laugh out of Diogo's "you no sa sa nothing, I crush @@@ to dust...".
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  #63  
Old 02-17-2017, 08:51 AM
Algernon Algernon is offline
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Originally Posted by scabpicker View Post
Best line in the series so far, possibly the best line in Sci-Fi:

"Man, the Mormons are gonna be pissed."
I'm partial to Amos's line:

"Bombs away! ... I always wanted to say that."
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  #64  
Old 02-17-2017, 09:54 AM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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I'm partial to Amos's line:

"Bombs away! ... I always wanted to say that."
I liked, "Most pirate ships medbays are mainly just open airlocks."

Love it.
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  #65  
Old 02-17-2017, 12:48 PM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is offline
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I noticed a few nifty details during the Nauvoo's departure. First, the tug/thrusters were a nice touch. After all, the Nauvoo's only going to need to turn two or three times during its entire voyage: for the departure burn, the flip for the deceleration burn, and maybe for the final orbital insertion burn. Why build in multiple redundant "thrusters" that are the size of the main drive of large ships? Second, the remaining scaffolding that was behind the Nauvoo's main engines was glowing from the heat of the exhaust. Realistically, anything behind an interplanetary torch drive should be instantly vaporized, but the heating is at least a nod towards real physics.

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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
What exactly is Chrisjen Avasarala's role in the UN government? I know she's the "Assistant Undersecretary of Executive Administration" and immediate boss is, logically enough, the "Undersecretary of Executive Administration". So is she basically the Secretary-General's deputy chief of staff, or the 2nd or 3rd highest official if the government? One would think there would be a Secretary rank in between Secretary-General and Undersecretary (& presumable other departments besides Executive Administration). It sure seems like her and Sadavir are in charge of homeworld security and/or the military.
I think they've said that she's one of the most powerful people that nobody's heard of. The Secretary-General and Deputy Secretary-General are merely the elected figureheads, while Errinwright is the de facto head of the executive. In the contemporary UN, there are Under-Secretary-Generals in charge of high level departments like Peacekeeping Operations. Perhaps the Executive Administration originated as a similar high-level department that turned into the real seat of power when the UN became a world government.

That places Avasarala nominally at the 4th highest level of government (or 5th if there's another figurehead Under-Secretary-General above Errinwright), but effectively she's in the 2nd highest level of people who wield real power.

Last edited by lazybratsche; 02-17-2017 at 12:48 PM..
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  #66  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:16 PM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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In the "small touches" category, after watching this episode, I realized I really liked how Thomas Jane makes Miller's hand gestures while using those holographic displays look quite natural and casual. Most of the time when you see such stuff in movies, it looks quite forced and exaggerated, but Jane makes if feel like something Miller has actually been doing his whole life, and it's just not a big deal.
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  #67  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:29 PM
ISiddiqui ISiddiqui is offline
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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
What exactly is Chrisjen Avasarala's role in the UN government? I know she's the "Assistant Undersecretary of Executive Administration" and immediate boss is, logically enough, the "Undersecretary of Executive Administration". So is she basically the Secretary-General's deputy chief of staff, or the 2nd or 3rd highest official if the government? One would think there would be a Secretary rank in between Secretary-General and Undersecretary (& presumable other departments besides Executive Administration). It sure seems like her and Sadavir are in charge of homeworld security and/or the military.
The "Secretary rank" is the Secretary-General himself. Undersecretaries are kind of like Cabinet members in US politics. This is how it works in the current Earth-based, not all the powerful UN:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Under-...United_Nations

However, being an Undersecretary for Executive Administration means you control the entire executive branch - so basically like a Chief of Staff I think. In the books, they mention that the Undersecretary for Executive Administration is responsible for finances and the health system and things like that in addition to security.
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  #68  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:32 PM
Paintcharge Paintcharge is offline
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That was good. Also, the perpetual adolescent in me got a laugh out of Diogo's "you no sa sa nothing, I crush @@@ to dust...".
Is Diogo the same kid that was on the rock scavenger ship with his uncle. Got left adrift in space when the Martian's (?) stopped them? If so how'd did he get rescued?
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  #69  
Old 02-17-2017, 02:50 PM
MHaas MHaas is offline
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Is Diogo the same kid that was on the rock scavenger ship with his uncle. Got left adrift in space when the Martian's (?) stopped them? If so how'd did he get rescued?
He is the same kid, he mentions being dropped in space by his uncle to Miller at one point earlier in the season. I don't think they ever address his rescue though.
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  #70  
Old 02-18-2017, 02:56 AM
scabpicker scabpicker is offline
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
In the "small touches" category, after watching this episode, I realized I really liked how Thomas Jane makes Miller's hand gestures while using those holographic displays look quite natural and casual. Most of the time when you see such stuff in movies, it looks quite forced and exaggerated, but Jane makes if feel like something Miller has actually been doing his whole life, and it's just not a big deal.
Yeah, he almost makes it seem like he's irritated by the interface. It's a nice touch.
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  #71  
Old 02-18-2017, 09:11 AM
Mahaloth Mahaloth is offline
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Does anyone else get bored with the goverment part of the story? I like Miller and everyone up in space dealing with stuff, but hate it when they cut to the other stuff.

I assume it all serves a huge purpose eventually.
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  #72  
Old 02-18-2017, 03:16 PM
alphaboi867 alphaboi867 is offline
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I'm enjoying the political stuff. I'm also a fan of the actress who plays Chrisjen.

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  #73  
Old 02-19-2017, 09:18 AM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is offline
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Originally Posted by lazybratsche View Post
I noticed a few nifty details during the Nauvoo's departure. First, the tug/thrusters were a nice touch. After all, the Nauvoo's only going to need to turn two or three times during its entire voyage: for the departure burn, the flip for the deceleration burn, and maybe for the final orbital insertion burn. Why build in multiple redundant "thrusters" that are the size of the main drive of large ships? Second, the remaining scaffolding that was behind the Nauvoo's main engines was glowing from the heat of the exhaust.
Yeah, I immediately noticed this too, thought it was a really cool touch.

This show just keeps getting better and better. The political intrigue is a nice counterpoint to the stuff going down with our little band of adventurers in the belt.

Last edited by Kinthalis; 02-19-2017 at 09:18 AM..
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  #74  
Old 02-19-2017, 11:16 AM
Horatius Horatius is offline
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He is the same kid, he mentions being dropped in space by his uncle to Miller at one point earlier in the season. I don't think they ever address his rescue though.

These was a brief mention in the scene when they were in the landing pod together, but the noted audio combined with accent issues made it easy to miss. He mentioned that he got lucky and was picked up by a belter ship before running out of air, then says he's living on borrowed time now, which is part of why he's so relaxed about danger.



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Originally Posted by alphaboi867 View Post
I'm enjoying the political stuff. I'm also a fan of the actress who plays Chrisjen.


I'm waiting to see if they can pull off the Amos/Chrissy (Don't fucking call me that!) relationship from the books. That's one of my favorite parts.
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  #75  
Old 02-19-2017, 02:38 PM
Sam Stone Sam Stone is offline
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Loved that episode! However, the science went a little wonky. The plan to change Eros's orbit to drop it into the sun isn't even remotely feasible. In terms of energy requirements, the sun is an incredibly hard target - you basically have to kill nearly all your orbital velocity. It would have been easier to just launch Eros completely out of the solar system. Also, the Nauvoo is about 2x1.5 kilometers in size, and hollow. Eros is 35 km long and solid. The actual result of the collision would have been a massive explosion, possibly Eros breaking apart, and the pieces staying in a slighly more elliptical orbit. Since Eros already crosses the orbits of Earth and Mars, the result would have been the creation of a shotgun cloud of debris in the orbital path of Earth and Mars.

If the Nauvoo was going fast enough to completely kill Eros's orbital speed, the result would have been the vaporization of Eros instead of dropping it into the sun.

Also, the speed the Nauvoo would need to have been going would have caused it to pass Eros in the blink of an eye, not sail majestically past.
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  #76  
Old 02-19-2017, 06:41 PM
lazybratsche lazybratsche is offline
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Right, this isn't truly "hard" scifi, and the authors admit as much (though I can't find the interview I'm thinking of right now...). After all, they're not coding their own orbital mechanics simulations like Andy Weir or Neal Stephenson would.

But I'm thrilled to have a setting where the physics is only sometimes "a little wonky".

I'm re-watching Star Trek TNG right now, and 90% of the time they don't even bother to consider real-world science. Perhaps 9% is cringeworthy nonsense, invented by a hack writer to paste over gaps in the plot. Generously, 1% is tolerable if you don't think too hard about it.

IMO, 100% hard scifi and good stories rarely mix. After all, in space human meatbags are a fragile and obscene waste of resources. The Expanse hits a sweet spot for me, where the science is decent enough for thought-provoking human stories.
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  #77  
Old 02-19-2017, 07:04 PM
Dr. Strangelove Dr. Strangelove is online now
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Also, the speed the Nauvoo would need to have been going would have caused it to pass Eros in the blink of an eye, not sail majestically past.
That I chalked up to dramatic license. The Nauvoo is a few kilometers long, and traveling at a few tens of kilometers per second. So about a tenth of a second, which is plenty of time to perceive something moving across your field of vision, and which, if you're about to die, probably seems like a lifetime (snert). So they slowed it down to give us Miller's perspective.

The bang it into the sun thing can't really be handwaved away, unfortunately... I was hoping they'd land the Nauvoo on Eros gently, and use the massive engines to change its orbit to intersect Jupiter or something (way easier than the sun).
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  #78  
Old 02-20-2017, 08:59 AM
Algernon Algernon is offline
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I'm waiting to see if they can pull off the Amos/Chrissy (Don't fucking call me that!) relationship from the books. That's one of my favorite parts.
Heh, heh. Me too!
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  #79  
Old 02-20-2017, 10:55 PM
brujaja brujaja is offline
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I get all worked up into a geeky state of glee whenever I discuss this show. Railguns! Cool semi-crystalline-semi-plant-looking alien life! Badass armored suits!

This show is like a wonderful, unexpected gift. Season one was great; but season two is truly, truly magnificent. I think the casting is very well done, too. Lot of great performances.

It's nice having a TV show to enjoy and anticipate again. I mean, seeing as we're still in mid super long hiatus with my other two favorite shows, Rick & Morty and Killjoys.
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  #80  
Old Yesterday, 08:28 AM
Half Man Half Wit Half Man Half Wit is offline
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I hope they're gonna recover the Nauvoo, though. Would be a shame to loose humanity's first interstellar ship for nothing...

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The bang it into the sun thing can't really be handwaved away, unfortunately... I was hoping they'd land the Nauvoo on Eros gently, and use the massive engines to change its orbit to intersect Jupiter or something (way easier than the sun).
Well, but if you're gonna get out the slide rule and cry 'foul' regarding the physics of pushing Eros into the sun, shouldn't you be all the more astonished by the protomolecule causing it to make an abrupt course correction without basically splitting the whole thing up and throwing half of it away...?
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  #81  
Old Yesterday, 09:17 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Well, but if you're gonna get out the slide rule and cry 'foul' regarding the physics of pushing Eros into the sun, shouldn't you be all the more astonished by the protomolecule causing it to make an abrupt course correction without basically splitting the whole thing up and throwing half of it away...?
No, because whatever these magical powers are, humanity doesn't have access to them, and therefore must obey the laws of physics.
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  #82  
Old Yesterday, 09:58 PM
Dr. Strangelove Dr. Strangelove is online now
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Well, but if you're gonna get out the slide rule and cry 'foul' regarding the physics of pushing Eros into the sun, shouldn't you be all the more astonished by the protomolecule causing it to make an abrupt course correction without basically splitting the whole thing up and throwing half of it away...?
What Alessan said. The protomolecule is exotic alien technology. It's allowed to have a few tricks up its sleeves, like manipulation of inertia. The only semi-magic tech the humans have is their ship drive units, and even then they pretty much work as we'd expect an advanced rocket to (no warp drives or anything).

Now, I hope that they put some limits on the alien tech, like the speed of light. And what powers they do display should be used as much as possible and not forgotten in the next episode. But even hard SF allows for some degree of exotic physics. Forgetting simple momentum laws... not so much.
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