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  #1  
Old 10-03-2016, 10:05 PM
BeepKillBeep BeepKillBeep is online now
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"Timeless" New Time Travel Show

I just finished watching the pilot. Seems good, certainly lots of potential. My only concern is that it will become trope heavy. Did anybody else watch it? Any thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2016, 10:49 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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I enjoyed it. They've included a intriguing conspiracy as a subplot. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

They did seem to fall back on the old Trope that people meant to die will fulfill that destiny. The lady reporter couldn't be saved.

I'd almost bet Lincoln won't be saved either.

The time machine looks like a giant eyeball. The hatch is the pupil. Is that on purpose? Or just a badly designed prop?

I hope every episode won't include discrimination against the black character. That could easily be over done.

This subject has been covered before. Time Cop  with Jean-Claude Van Damme is an example.

They did surprise me by letting the team return home. I just assumed they'd be stuck in the past chasing this guy. I guess returning home opens up new storylines. I'll keep watching for awhile.

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-03-2016 at 10:53 PM..
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2016, 10:59 PM
raventhief raventhief is offline
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We watched and enjoyed it. I got a definite "Warehouse 13" vibe from it. Obviously, no artifacts, but something about the way the team is kind of pulling together.
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  #4  
Old 10-04-2016, 12:21 AM
Accidental Martyr Accidental Martyr is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post

I hope every episode won't include discrimination against the black character. That could easily be over done.
I would imagine he would have been subjected to much worse IRL than what we saw in the show. But yeah, we wouldn't want stuff like that to interrupt your viewing pleasure.
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  #5  
Old 10-04-2016, 01:05 AM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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The show's plot involves stopping a guy from using a stolen time machine to change historical events.

It's not a show about civil rights in historical periods. That show could certainly be developed and written. It might even get great ratings.

I simply hope they keep this show primarily focused on the Time Cop element. Once in awhile discrimination may come up and be part of the story. There's no need to artificially force it into every episode.

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-04-2016 at 01:08 AM..
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2016, 11:50 AM
Accidental Martyr Accidental Martyr is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
The show's plot involves stopping a guy from using a stolen time machine to change historical events.

It's not a show about civil rights in historical periods. That show could certainly be developed and written. It might even get great ratings.

I simply hope they keep this show primarily focused on the Time Cop element. Once in awhile discrimination may come up and be part of the story. There's no need to artificially force it into every episode.
Sure, we wouldn't want any accurate depictions of racism in the US. What a downer!
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2016, 12:41 PM
bordelond bordelond is online now
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I simply hope they keep this show primarily focused on the Time Cop element. Once in awhile discrimination may come up and be part of the story.
I thought they did something clever with the discrimination angle in last night's pilot though:

SPOILER:

In the scene where the good guys are in lock-up: Rufus (the African-American character) is unable to create a distraction by asking for water. But he is able to goad the racist cop into walking off to get a buddy to come beat on the mouthy "boy". That bought Wyatt and Lucy enough time to work openly on their cell's lock. It was chancy for Rufus, as Wyatt only opened his cell in the nick of time to prevent an imminent beatdown.


The name of the time machine's pilot ... Rufus Carlin. Is someone on the creative team a fan of Kevin Smith? That's basically a double name-check to Smith's film Dogma.
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  #8  
Old 10-04-2016, 12:56 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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Rufus certainly aided the team's rescue. That was a good scene.

I thought it was cool when he casually asks the girl out after returning from the mission. He had developed a new confidence that had been lacking before.

I almost didn't recognize Matt Frewer. He had a small role as a lab tech. It was his distinctive voice that I recognized. He looks so different now that he's old. Max Headroom and Psi Factor were over twenty years ago

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-04-2016 at 01:00 PM..
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  #9  
Old 10-04-2016, 01:02 PM
Cartoonacy Cartoonacy is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
They did seem to fall back on the old Trope that people meant to die will fulfill that destiny. The lady reporter couldn't be saved.
But... but...
SPOILER:
...they actually did prevent (or at least delay) the Hindenburg disaster. Historically, 36 people died, but (unless I misheard) didn't they say that she was the only casualty? Television time-travelers aren't supposed to be able to change historical events! It... it... just isn't done!
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2016, 01:03 PM
Cartoonacy Cartoonacy is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I almost didn't recognize Matt Frewer. He had a small role as a lab tech. It was his distinctive voice that I recognized. He looks so different now that he's old. Max Headroom and Psi Factor were over twenty years ago
I guess you didn't follow Eureka or Orphan Black.

Last edited by Cartoonacy; 10-04-2016 at 01:04 PM..
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  #11  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:13 PM
BeepKillBeep BeepKillBeep is online now
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Originally Posted by Cartoonacy View Post
But... but...
SPOILER:
...they actually did prevent (or at least delay) the Hindenburg disaster. Historically, 36 people died, but (unless I misheard) didn't they say that she was the only casualty? Television time-travelers aren't supposed to be able to change historical events! It... it... just isn't done!
That's one of the things which I think might make this show great. Upsetting the status quo and getting a peek at the alterations could be fun. I like that they are making some of the changes personal as well. What I hope they *don't* do is try to link them to the episode. The sequence of events that changes things is going to be very complex. There's no reason to say that little girl you saved from the fire eventually did blah blah blah that had a direct effect on your life. I prefer it to be kept subtle, or better yet unknown, and indirect. Maybe every now and then they can show us the causal links just for variety. The problem with trying to write these causal links is that more often then not they're written badly and sound silly.
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  #12  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:30 PM
Skammer Skammer is offline
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Originally Posted by bordelond View Post
The name of the time machine's pilot ... Rufus Carlin. Is someone on the creative team a fan of Kevin Smith? That's basically a double name-check to Smith's film Dogma.
Wrong movie. George Carlin played Rufus the time-traveler in 1989's Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.
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  #13  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:35 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr View Post
Sure, we wouldn't want any accurate depictions of racism in the US. What a downer!
That's not the show I want to watch, though. If that's where it goes, I'll stop watching.
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  #14  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:38 PM
Lightnin' Lightnin' is offline
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That's one of the things which I think might make this show great. Upsetting the status quo and getting a peek at the alterations could be fun. I like that they are making some of the changes personal as well. What I hope they *don't* do is try to link them to the episode. The sequence of events that changes things is going to be very complex. There's no reason to say that little girl you saved from the fire eventually did blah blah blah that had a direct effect on your life. I prefer it to be kept subtle, or better yet unknown, and indirect. Maybe every now and then they can show us the causal links just for variety. The problem with trying to write these causal links is that more often then not they're written badly and sound silly.
That's something I'd like to see them keep- the idea that every change in the past, no matter how minor, can end up having huge changes in the present. For the travelers, the only constant would be their teammates- everything else is subject to change.

I could totally do without the bit about how they can't interact with their past selves, though. Timecop ruined that bit for me.
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  #15  
Old 10-04-2016, 02:55 PM
bordelond bordelond is online now
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Originally Posted by Skammer View Post
Wrong movie. George Carlin played Rufus the time-traveler in 1989's Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.
Hang on now -- Chris Rock played Rufus (the 13th Apostle) in Dogma, and George Carlin had a long-ish cameo playing a cardinal in the same film.

However ... good memory on your part! Looks like Kevin Smith was perhaps name checking Bill & Ted
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  #16  
Old 10-04-2016, 03:16 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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I could totally do without the bit about how they can't interact with their past selves, though. Timecop ruined that bit for me.
See Looper for how it can work well.
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2016, 04:26 PM
Accidental Martyr Accidental Martyr is offline
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That's not the show I want to watch, though. If that's where it goes, I'll stop watching.
It's obviously going to be a component of the show or they wouldn't have made the point of addressing it in the pilot. If you are going to have an African American traveling to earlier times in the US it would pretty much be impossible to leave it out because his treatment by other people is going to definitely be an issue.
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  #18  
Old 10-04-2016, 05:13 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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I wonder if their "expert" history professor will quickly get confused by the changes in history? She's an expert in her own time line. It's going to be difficult for her to keep up with what changes.

A lot of lives were saved on the Hindenburg and it's hard to know how that altered upcoming events.

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-04-2016 at 05:14 PM..
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  #19  
Old 10-04-2016, 05:21 PM
BeepKillBeep BeepKillBeep is online now
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I wonder if their "expert" history professor will quickly get confused by the changes in history? She's an expert in her own time line. It's going to be difficult for her to keep up with what changes.

A lot of lives were saved on the Hindenburg and it's hard to know how that altered upcoming events.
I'm wondering if the book that was written by her will end up being a record of the true history so that the time line could be restored.

One thing I did like is that the show introduced just enough little mysteries to be intriguing, such as the book, Rittenhouse (sp?), etc.

I'm definitely giving the show at least 3 more episodes. If it keeps being good then I'll watch it the entire season.
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2016, 07:41 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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This one of those not too deep shows that I know I'll enjoy without having to think too deep about. A couple of things that annoyed me. The cops were looking at the pistol from the future like it was a Buck Rogers ray gun. They might be slightly curious about the exact make but it's not like semi-auto handguns were unheard of. There was a reason why the standard Army handgun was called the M1911. Also when she was reading who was going to be on the return flight it was like they just picked random names. Omar Bradley? He was just some lieutenant colonel then.
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  #21  
Old 10-04-2016, 08:29 PM
Daddypants Daddypants is offline
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But... but...
SPOILER:
...they actually did prevent (or at least delay) the Hindenburg disaster. Historically, 36 people died, but (unless I misheard) didn't they say that she was the only casualty? Television time-travelers aren't supposed to be able to change historical events! It... it... just isn't done!
Yeah, this was actually my favorite part of the show, because it was so original.
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  #22  
Old 10-04-2016, 09:17 PM
John Mace John Mace is online now
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Highly trained soldier goes off mission because he's enamored by an attractive blonde, even though he knows he might destroy the world as we know it in the process. Sorry, not going to suspend my belief that much.
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  #23  
Old 10-04-2016, 10:19 PM
DigitalC DigitalC is online now
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Originally Posted by bordelond View Post

The name of the time machine's pilot ... Rufus Carlin. Is someone on the creative team a fan of Kevin Smith? That's basically a double name-check to Smith's film Dogma.
It's a double name check to Bill and Ted's excellent adventure, not Dogma.
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  #24  
Old 10-04-2016, 11:11 PM
obfusciatrist obfusciatrist is offline
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Originally Posted by aceplace57 View Post
I almost didn't recognize Matt Frewer. He had a small role as a lab tech. It was his distinctive voice that I recognized. He looks so different now that he's old. Max Headroom and Psi Factor were over twenty years ago
I doubt it was a small role. I assume he'll be in charge of whatever the bad guys are doing that will turn out to be possibly good guys as the good guys realize they might be working for the bad guys and have to keep everybody apart from each other while they figure out which side to be on.
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  #25  
Old 10-05-2016, 07:22 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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OK show, but I have a hard time believing they could pick a jail cell with the wire from a bra. And what are they doing holding a man and woman in the same cell? But if it gets the historian out of her bra, I'm willing to look the other way.

I'm betting that we will eventually learn that the "terrorist" is the hero, and those that sent the trio team back are actually the villains.

Last edited by BobLibDem; 10-05-2016 at 07:23 AM..
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  #26  
Old 10-05-2016, 08:20 AM
AK84 AK84 is offline
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They subverted expectations by my count; 3 times.
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2016, 09:26 AM
John Bredin John Bredin is offline
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The cops were looking at the pistol from the future like it was a Buck Rogers ray gun. They might be slightly curious about the exact make but it's not like semi-auto handguns were unheard of. There was a reason why the standard Army handgun was called the M1911.
The gun had a silencer, IIRC. While they existed in the 1930s, I doubt a beat cop in a smallish town would've seen one before.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2016, 09:33 AM
Turek Turek is offline
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Two eye-rolling moments I had

1) "Here's their walkie-talkie. Give me a couple of minutes and I'll modify it to triangulate their position."

2) The cell phone strapped to the bomb as part of the detonator.
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2016, 09:38 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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The gun had a silencer, IIRC. While they existed in the 1930s, I doubt a beat cop in a smallish town would've seen one before.
I deleted it off of my DVR so I don't remember the exact quote but I was struck by the over the top reaction while I was watching. There was also her reaction about if the Nazis got ahold of his gun and sent it to Berlin. So what? Maybe if he had an AK-47 before assault rifles were invented it would mean something. Maybe. But Germany had semi-auto pistols since the late 1800s. The P08 Luger was designed in 1898. They had access to what John Browning had put out. There certainly have been improvements of design but nothing revolutionary. A world class historian wouldn't be worried able that gun changing history.
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Old 10-05-2016, 09:41 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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Two eye-rolling moments I had

1) "Here's their walkie-talkie. Give me a couple of minutes and I'll modify it to triangulate their position."

2) The cell phone strapped to the bomb as part of the detonator.
Ok zoned out a bit during that part.

1. Doesn't triangulation require a triangle?

2. Yes it would be hard to send a signal to a cellphone to set off the charge. But maybe they brought there own portable celltower equipment? But it had a timer so that doesn't make sense either.
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  #31  
Old 10-05-2016, 09:52 AM
Cartoonacy Cartoonacy is offline
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Rittenhouse. That was Margaret Dumont's character in Animal Crackers.

I'll keep watching if it turns out that Groucho is behind the entire conspiracy.
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  #32  
Old 10-05-2016, 10:58 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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Rittenhouse. That was Margaret Dumont's character in Animal Crackers.

I'll keep watching if it turns out that Groucho is behind the entire conspiracy.
We can only hope. All it makes me think of is Rittenhouse Square in Philadelphia.
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  #33  
Old 10-05-2016, 11:07 AM
cmyk cmyk is offline
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OK show, but I have a hard time believing they could pick a jail cell with the wire from a bra. And what are they doing holding a man and woman in the same cell? But if it gets the historian out of her bra, I'm willing to look the other way. [snip]
I get ya.

But I did love the conceit that they wouldn't suspect wire to be in her bra, as underwires weren't a big thing back then. They existed, but didn't become popular until the 50s. Kind of a 1930's GOTCHA-YA!


I dug the show enough to keep watching. It'll be interested in a non-Groundhog Day sort of way to try to correct their mistakes, since they can't travel back to a time period they've already visited. So the question is, how to correct the Hindenburg disaster by visiting other times and placed before? This avoids the Back to the Future II trope.
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  #34  
Old 10-05-2016, 11:20 AM
Frodo Frodo is offline
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It was aceptable, for a pilot episode, the 2 main irritants for me:

1) You have a bomb in a zeppelin, you have a window, throw the friggin bomb out the window!
2) No suspense has been created by the "digital bomb countdown timer" since 1987 at the very least.
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  #35  
Old 10-05-2016, 11:26 AM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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When they discovered the bomb, I thought they were flying over Manhattan, which was why they didn't just throw the bomb out the window.
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  #36  
Old 10-05-2016, 12:10 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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1) You have a bomb in a zeppelin, you have a window, throw the friggin bomb out the window!
You don't even need the window. One of the crew escaped by kicking a hole in the skin of the airship.
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  #37  
Old 10-05-2016, 12:14 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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But if it gets the historian out of her bra, I'm willing to look the other way.
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  #38  
Old 10-05-2016, 02:10 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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When they discovered the bomb, I thought they were flying over Manhattan, which was why they didn't just throw the bomb out the window.
It's probably not reasonable for everyone to know the geography of the area. Manhattan is not close to Lakehurst. Even though the Hindenburg was quite fast compared to blimps you might see today, it would still take over an hour to get from Lakehurst to Manhattan.
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  #39  
Old 10-05-2016, 02:11 PM
That Don Guy That Don Guy is offline
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Here's a trope (well, sort of) that I noticed:

When the villains went back in time, presumably they would have been able to have the Hindenburg land safely, and then plant the bomb so it successfully went off during the return trip. This should have immediately changed the histories of everybody in "the present," so they would never have known what "should have" happened - and we know this happens as this is exactly what happened when the heroes returned.

Presumably, it's not so much "time travel" as it is "universe jumping" (somebody on another thread pointed out, "So where's the version of the history professor with the fiancee and without the sister?") - but in that case, what would be the problem with meeting yourself in the past?
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Old 10-05-2016, 02:27 PM
BeepKillBeep BeepKillBeep is online now
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Here's a trope (well, sort of) that I noticed:

When the villains went back in time, presumably they would have been able to have the Hindenburg land safely, and then plant the bomb so it successfully went off during the return trip. This should have immediately changed the histories of everybody in "the present," so they would never have known what "should have" happened - and we know this happens as this is exactly what happened when the heroes returned.

Presumably, it's not so much "time travel" as it is "universe jumping" (somebody on another thread pointed out, "So where's the version of the history professor with the fiancee and without the sister?") - but in that case, what would be the problem with meeting yourself in the past?
I'm pretty sure that just fluff used by the writers to give consequence to the episode. If they could just keep coming back and back and back and back and back and back then there is no tension for failing.
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  #41  
Old 10-06-2016, 08:34 AM
E-DUB E-DUB is offline
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I see they're doing a Lincoln episode next. Has anybody ever done a story where a time traveler trying to prevent the assassination of Lincoln bumps into a bunch of other time travelers trying to do exactly the same thing?
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  #42  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:18 PM
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is offline
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OK show, but I have a hard time believing they could pick a jail cell with the wire from a bra.
One heck of a painful underwire...

Quote:
And what are they doing holding a man and woman in the same cell?
I thought about it and decided it was meant to be a commentary on the racial element again.

Quote:
But if it gets the historian out of her bra, I'm willing to look the other way.
The irritating bit here is that any self-respecting female can get her bra off underneath her shirt and then hand it out under the waist or through the sleeve. We learn it young.

Quote:
I'm betting that we will eventually learn that the "terrorist" is the hero, and those that sent the trio team back are actually the villains.
This seems likely.

Anyone else curious who the fiance is? The "villain" perhaps?
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  #43  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:30 PM
carnivorousplant carnivorousplant is offline
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The irritating bit here is that any self-respecting female can get her bra off underneath her shirt and then hand it out under the waist or through the sleeve. We learn it young.
By golly, you are right. It impressed in when I first saw Mrs. Plant-to-be (v.3.0) do that. Rather, it continues to impress me.
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  #44  
Old 10-06-2016, 02:42 PM
Grrr! Grrr! is online now
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Liked the show. My only complaint was that the time capsule was WAY too easy to steal. I mean come on.
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:07 PM
Valgard Valgard is offline
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I see they're doing a Lincoln episode next. Has anybody ever done a story where a time traveler trying to prevent the assassination of Lincoln bumps into a bunch of other time travelers trying to do exactly the same thing?
The short story "Wikihistory" is a bit in that vein; all the new time travellers keep trying to go back to bump off Hitler.

http://www.tor.com/2011/08/31/wikihistory/
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  #46  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:23 PM
That Don Guy That Don Guy is offline
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I see they're doing a Lincoln episode next. Has anybody ever done a story where a time traveler trying to prevent the assassination of Lincoln bumps into a bunch of other time travelers trying to do exactly the same thing?
How many stories are there where different groups of time travelers bump into each other, period?

I know of the "red leapers" in Quantum Leap (plus there was a second "white leaper" in the finale), the multiple Stewies and Brians in the Family Guy episode "Back to the Pilot" (although they're not there by coincidence; each is there to prevent an earlier traveler from doing something that will mess things up), and I think the short story "The Men who Murdered Mohammed" had something along these lines as well.
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2016, 03:59 PM
Cartoonacy Cartoonacy is offline
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Liked the show. My only complaint was that the time capsule was WAY too easy to steal. I mean come on.
True. But they had an instruction book from the future, explaining how they already did steal it. That helped a lot.
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  #48  
Old 10-06-2016, 04:08 PM
Cartoonacy Cartoonacy is offline
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I see they're doing a Lincoln episode next. Has anybody ever done a story where a time traveler trying to prevent the assassination of Lincoln bumps into a bunch of other time travelers trying to do exactly the same thing?
I don't know, but I do remember a short story in which travelers from various eras trying to assassinate Hitler were opposed by others trying to prevent his assassination.

And in James P. Hogan's novel The Proteus Operation, a group of time travelers were sent into the past to supply Winston Churchill with the information he needs to oppose Adolf Hitler, who was an insignificant fanatic until another group of travelers helped him rise to power.
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  #49  
Old 10-06-2016, 04:12 PM
Cartoonacy Cartoonacy is offline
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I know of the "red leapers" in Quantum Leap (plus there was a second "white leaper" in the finale),
I remember two "evil leapers," Alia and Zoe, but I never heard them called "red leapers" before. And though the finale was very confusing, I don't remember any "white leaper" in it.
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  #50  
Old 10-07-2016, 01:11 PM
Dendarii Dame Dendarii Dame is online now
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Join Date: May 2011
Someone should start a support group, Time Travelers Anonymous: "Hi, my name is Lucy, and I changed history so some things that were bad were improved, but other things that were good went bad."

"Hi, Lucy. My name is Barry..."
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