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  #1  
Old 01-09-2017, 02:43 AM
Orr, G. Orr, G. is offline
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Emerald City - New show on NBC (some boxed spoilers)

It's way past my bedtime, so apologies for any errors or incoherence, but I was shocked to note that there was no previous thread (please correct me if I'm wrong).

What a fantastic show! How the hell is this on a regular network instead of HBO or at least AMC?

It's got nearly the production value of Game of Thrones, and not an entirely dissimilar tone, but the writing and directing are a full level above anything on that show. There's a poetry to it that just amazes me, and which, judging from the few review scores I've seen, a lot of people are missing.

There are some seriously powerful actors, both known and making their debut here, and at least a few scenes which are cinematically breathtaking (Zack Snyder would be jealous, I bet).

The writing is excellent - the dialogue works well, and the characters and plotlines are introduced in an interesting fashion that makes me want more.

But none of that touches upon the greatness in this show. It's hard to explain, but there's a delightful poetry that I've rarely seen in movies and television. Much of it (but not all) plays upon the modernization of Dorothy's tale.

SPOILER:
The scarecrow is met as a man crucified, with crows upon him, waiting to feast on his flesh. He has lost his memory, and someone might harshly call him "brainless". When we expect to meet the Munchkins, we instead meet children of a tribe of free peoples. When Dorothy confesses she killed the Witch of the East, we are given a moment of suspense - are they going to sing and celebrate her, or punish her? - and by the end of the episode that suspense is not entirely satisfied, even after the moment has passed and the question answered.


The show tantalizes and teases, and satisfies enough only to keep us from complaining as it sets up the next delicious taste.

I fear that the show cannot continue with such excellence, what with regression towards the mean, and all. I fear that if the show succeeds at all, the pressures to maintain an ongoing, corporate friendly, syndicatable confection may ruin its particular genius.

But most of all, I worry that it may not get enough viewers who are paying enough attention during dinner (and all the rest that distract us while the boob tube clamors on) to be hooked by its creative poetry as I was to warrant what must be an expensive show to procuce, and it could be cancelled before its time.

Is anyone else with me on this?
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:21 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Seen the first episode, and will keep watching. I've always loved Tarsem Singh's visual aesthetic in films, even if the writing is not always great. So would watch it for that alone, although I'm already liking the modernization.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:12 AM
bobkitty bobkitty is offline
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I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but I was particularly thrown by an ad that referred to it as "Game of Thrones meets Oz." If you're of a particular age and viewer demographic, that means something VERY different than the ad execs intended.
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:23 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is online now
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It's considerably darker in tone than the most famous movie rendition of the story. Of course, the original novels were in many ways darker in tone than that movie.

I'm not quite as enthused as the OP but I'll be trying to keep up with the show (my schedule makes following a broadcast series difficult).
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:41 AM
SykoSkotty SykoSkotty is offline
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Wife and I caught the premiere and loved it. Interesting characters and a great modern twist on the classic tale. We will be watching, and.....

SPOILER:
we can't wait to see what kind of modern take the Tin Man has
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:55 AM
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
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A long and less imaginative version of Return to Oz. It's opposite the best show on TV now, so I won't be watching.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:00 AM
Sir T-Cups Sir T-Cups is offline
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I review new shows for NBC from time to time, and I saw a handful (7 I think) of different trailers that they were testing for this show. I thought it looked mighty interesting from the trailers, but it seemed a bit too convoluted and it (spoilers for people who don't want to know of a future plot point)

SPOILER:
shoehorns a love story between Dorothy and the Scarecrow


...which took me right out of the show. I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread though and hear what everyone else has to say about it.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:51 AM
John Mace John Mace is offline
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I came looking for a thread over the weekend, and when I didn't see one I assumed most who watched it were, like me, very disappointed. I kept saying to myself: should have known... network TV. I may give it a few more tries, but I don't think it lived up to anything we see on HOB, SHOW, or AMC.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:31 AM
Kelevra Kelevra is offline
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I liked it. Lots of interesting characters, lots of interesting conflict.
But holy crap that was a lot of commercials! I think they made a 1 hour show 2 hours long from all the ads!
Only way I'll watch that again is on DVR.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:42 PM
doorhinge doorhinge is offline
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I liked the show. Lot's of action and graphics. But why are they trying to associate this with the Wizard of OZ.

SPOILER:
There's a tornado. And a wizard. And a witch died. Oh, and a toto called Toto. The ties seem weak. IMHO, of course.


Or as a jumpstart on the ratings?
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:51 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by Orr, G. View Post
re.

But none of that touches upon the greatness in this show. It's hard to explain, but there's a delightful poetry that I've rarely seen in movies and television. Much of it (but not all) plays upon the modernization of Dorothy's tale.

Greatness? The show was craptastic. Sharknado had better writing and acting. Emerald City was a confused muddled mess, with occasional flashes of interesting scenery or costuming.

It raised L Frank from the dead, buggered his corpse and then shat on what remained.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:55 PM
CalMeacham CalMeacham is offline
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I haven't watched this, but from the ads it appears to be a more adult, darker re-telling and re-imagining of The Wizard of Oz, by way of the 1939 movie.

So I gotta ask -- how does this differ from the 2007 SciFi (now Syfy) series Tin Man?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Man_(miniseries)

Last edited by CalMeacham; 01-09-2017 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:02 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Originally Posted by CalMeacham View Post
I haven't watched this, but from the ads it appears to be a more adult, darker re-telling and re-imagining of The Wizard of Oz, by way of the 1939 movie.

So I gotta ask -- how does this differ from the 2007 SciFi (now Syfy) series Tin Man?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Man_(miniseries)

Not a retelling or reimaging at all. Just a few names and shout-outs.

Yes, it's more than a little like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_Man_(miniseries)

But that at least had Zooey Deschanel.
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Old 01-09-2017, 01:23 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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I haven't watched this, but from the ads it appears to be a more adult, darker re-telling and re-imagining of The Wizard of Oz, by way of the 1939 movie.
I thought that the commercials made it look terrible. Combine that with this, and I didn't watch.
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Old 01-10-2017, 12:01 AM
Sam Lowry Sam Lowry is offline
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I came looking for a thread over the weekend, and when I didn't see one I assumed most who watched it were, like me, very disappointed. I kept saying to myself: should have known... network TV. I may give it a few more tries, but I don't think it lived up to anything we see on HOB, SHOW, or AMC.
I'll probably keep watching, because I like Tarsem Singh's visuals, The Fall is one of my favorite movies ever. But I agree that it is disappointing. I wish it was either better, or just more bonkers crazy. I giggled at the stupidity of dogs being called Toto, and the witch being tricked into shooting herself, and that the flying monkeys are robot drones. If there had been more over the top craziness I would have liked it more, I'm hopeful that maybe it'll get a bit more of that as the season goes along.

It doesn't help that both Dorothy and the Scarecrow are generic actors and so far the least interesting parts of the show. You could replace both of them with actors from some random procedural on TV right now and I probably wouldn't notice.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:46 PM
Sigmagirl Sigmagirl is offline
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I loved it. I've watched the first two episodes six times now and each time I catch more tidbits and intrigue. It's not getting great reviews, so I'm hoping they won't pull it before they run all 10 episodes. I also was hoping someone could tell me:

1: Does the Wizard have a little thing for Anna? He watched her for a while before approaching her, seemed quite taken when she told him how much she enjoyed numbers and figures and science, and then hesitated before asking her to go to the funeral with him.

2. When West showed up for the funeral, stoned and with black marks all over her face, North demands "What did he do to you?" meaning, I assume, the Wizard. What DID he do to her? And as North is leaving, he asks about West's health, and North answers that West is "alive, no thanks to you." What did the Wizard do to her? She's coked up all the time already. I understand that the witches are pissed because the Wiz opened the funeral to public view, but that wouldn't account for whatever her deal was at the funeral.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:56 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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2. When West showed up for the funeral, stoned and with black marks all over her face, North demands "What did he do to you?" meaning, I assume, the Wizard. What DID he do to her?
I read that as the long-term, not the immediate: "What has giving up magic and living as a madam in his city done to you? What have you let yourself become? You junkie whore!" not "what just happened?"
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:34 AM
MoonMoon MoonMoon is offline
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I must have watched a different show than the OP.

I couldn't even make it through the whole episode. It had a very 'network tv' feel to it, and like someone else said, Dorothy and the Tin Man were so bland and forgettable.
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Old 01-11-2017, 07:12 AM
DrForrester DrForrester is offline
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It didn't help that much of the action is "in medio res" with no explanation whatsoever. I get that shows are done this way to prolong certain tension. But, I often am simply left behind.

The really irritating thing (for me) was that the Scarecrow was Jesus. Found on a cross, punctured in his side, has a beard, has dark hair, etc. They also don't give the guy a lot of lines ... and those that they do give him are all supposed to be cryptic and so forth.

I enjoyed the "woman and the child" elements ... but, once again, I have to say that I didn't understand any part of it because we weren't given any back story because we aren't supposed to know if the woman was "good" or "bad", "sane" or "bat-shit". Her magic wasn't all that powerful... but, clearly, she was using magic. Goodness knows that a healthy adult can't be expected to imprison a sickly child without magic.

I hope that the show goes somewhere ... quickly.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:10 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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The really irritating thing (for me) was that the Scarecrow was Jesus. Found on a cross
I find this particular comparison ridiculous - real-life scarecrows are usually hung up like that. Are they all Jesus expies?
Quote:
has dark hair
IME, Allegorical Jesus is typically blonde. Having dark hair is a point against the allegory. I'm not arguing the allegory isn't there, just that you've chosen some poor points to prove it.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:12 AM
Sigmagirl Sigmagirl is offline
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I read that as the long-term, not the immediate: "What has giving up magic and living as a madam in his city done to you? What have you let yourself become? You junkie whore!" not "what just happened?"
Possibly, but they already had been through that, when they met at the city gates after a 20-year absence and North tells West how terrible she looks. This seems to be something else and something worse.
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Old 01-11-2017, 09:36 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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Possibly, but they already had been through that, when they met at the city gates after a 20-year absence and North tells West how terrible she looks. This seems to be something else and something worse.
I read it as her showing up drunk for work. Sure, Glinda may have known she was a lush, but this just drove the point home.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:56 AM
Loach Loach is online now
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Originally Posted by DrForrester View Post
It didn't help that much of the action is "in medio res" with no explanation whatsoever. I get that shows are done this way to prolong certain tension. But, I often am simply left behind.

The really irritating thing (for me) was that the Scarecrow was Jesus. Found on a cross, punctured in his side, has a beard, has dark hair, etc. They also don't give the guy a lot of lines ... and those that they do give him are all supposed to be cryptic and so forth.

I enjoyed the "woman and the child" elements ... but, once again, I have to say that I didn't understand any part of it because we weren't given any back story because we aren't supposed to know if the woman was "good" or "bad", "sane" or "bat-shit". Her magic wasn't all that powerful... but, clearly, she was using magic. Goodness knows that a healthy adult can't be expected to imprison a sickly child without magic.

I hope that the show goes somewhere ... quickly.
Maybe I'm getting slow in my old age but it confused me. I know it's supposed to create mystery. You're not supposed to know if the witches are good or bad or what's up with the Wizard. It just seems like a mess not a mystery.

What the hell is up with Dinofrio's accent? His weirdly wooden performance is very disappointing after watching him in Daredevil where even when he is quiet and still he is still acting his ass off.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:08 AM
Sigmagirl Sigmagirl is offline
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I think they're just demonstrating that the Wizard is a fraud. Maybe he'll have a scene with someone who knows/learns his secret and he'll use his real Oscar Z. P. I. N. H. E. A. Diggs Omaha voice.
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:50 AM
kunilou kunilou is offline
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I didn't much care for it. For one thing, I'm a little tired of the steampunk look they gave the Emerald City. But I like the fact that there's a whole coven of witches. I hope the producers drop houses and police cars on them on a regular basis.

Oh my God, they killed a witch!
You BASTARDS!
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:05 PM
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I gotta admit, I’m right in there with the “Sharknado-esque” writing. Yeah, the visuals are gorgeous, but how they could wring this fetid puddle of Mediaevalist hallucinogenic disco Eurotrash out of one of the most thoroughly American works of literature is beyond me. I couldn’t make it all the way to the end – once Mr. singular left the room there was no one to share snark with, and my urge to make it through to the end left the room with him.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:27 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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I gotta admit, I’m right in there with the “Sharknado-esque” writing. Yeah, the visuals are gorgeous, but how they could wring this fetid puddle of Mediaevalist hallucinogenic disco Eurotrash out of one of the most thoroughly American works of literature is beyond me. I couldn’t make it all the way to the end – once Mr. singular left the room there was no one to share snark with, and my urge to make it through to the end left the room with him.
So very true. But nice to look at, I agree.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:14 PM
magnusblitz magnusblitz is offline
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Watched the first episode (first hour) and found it pretty tepid. I agree that it's nice to look at visually, but that's about it, other than curiosity as to how they design certain characters. I found the Wizard himself to be pretty disappointing.

The witch of the East killing herself with the gun was grade-A hilarity.
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:31 PM
Sigmagirl Sigmagirl is offline
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For one thing, I'm a little tired of the steampunk look they gave the Emerald City.
I love it. I want to live in the Wizard's bedroom.

With the Wizard.
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Old 01-11-2017, 03:28 PM
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I liked it. It was a totally different take on the classic story, with none of the treacle. Dorothy is pragmatic, doesn't act all helpless, and acts as the driving force to the rest of the cast.

I didn't think the Scarecrow was supposed to represent Jesus. He was abused like he was a scarecrow, hung from a cross-like structure scarecrows usually hang from. He couldn't remember what had happened to him, as if he lacked a brain. Moreover, he acted thick and clueless enough to get on Dorthy's nerves.

I'm thinking the two children are the equivalents of the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion, as the boy uses an axe and the girl was confined by her guardian, not allowed to leave the hut, because of fear of the outside world.

The scene where the Wizard had removed his wig and sulked did indeed drive home the point that he was phony and had no actual powers. He used psychological brainwashing to keep the witches helpless and the Oznians wary of magic.

Airing on Friday nights is pretty much a death sentence, but maybe it'll be picked up by Syfy or something.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:02 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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I didn't think the Scarecrow was supposed to represent Jesus. He was abused like he was a scarecrow, hung from a cross-like structure scarecrows usually hang from
Wound in his side, exact place Jesus was supposedly speared.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:09 PM
MoonMoon MoonMoon is offline
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Wound in his side, exact place Jesus was supposedly speared.
Lettering on the cross above his head, barbed wire (thorns).
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:24 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Lettering on the cross above his head, barbed wire (thorns).
Neon sign with flashing arrow pointing to him saying "Jesus Symbol, HINT, HINT".

But subtle.

Last edited by DrDeth; 01-11-2017 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 04:43 PM
MoonMoon MoonMoon is offline
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Neon sign with flashing arrow pointing to him saying "Jesus Symbol, HINT, HINT".

But subtle.
Subtle, like the lingering shot of the mailbox with "GALE" on the side in giant letters, just in case people hadn't put two and two together yet. *snarksnarksnark*
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:21 PM
Prof. Pepperwinkle Prof. Pepperwinkle is offline
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I liked it. It was a totally different take on the classic story, with none of the treacle. Dorothy is pragmatic, doesn't act all helpless, and acts as the driving force to the rest of the cast.

I didn't think the Scarecrow was supposed to represent Jesus. He was abused like he was a scarecrow, hung from a cross-like structure scarecrows usually hang from. He couldn't remember what had happened to him, as if he lacked a brain. Moreover, he acted thick and clueless enough to get on Dorthy's nerves.

I'm thinking the two children are the equivalents of the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion, as the boy uses an axe and the girl was confined by her guardian, not allowed to leave the hut, because of fear of the outside world.

The scene where the Wizard had removed his wig and sulked did indeed drive home the point that he was phony and had no actual powers. He used psychological brainwashing to keep the witches helpless and the Oznians wary of magic.

Airing on Friday nights is pretty much a death sentence, but maybe it'll be picked up by Syfy or something.
No, the kids are characters from other Oz books, as was Mombi.

SPOILER:

Tip is actually Ozma, the rightful ruler of Oz.
Jack is Jack Pumpkinhead. It says so right in the IMDB credits.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:58 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
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I'm thinking the two children are the equivalents of the Tin Man and the Cowardly Lion, as the boy uses an axe and the girl was confined by her guardian, not allowed to leave the hut, because of fear of the outside world.
The girl is definitely Ozma, the boy probably Jack Pumpkinhead-to-be. The Tin Man is going to be either that guard captain if he gets killed later or the guy he already dismembered, reassembled.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:48 AM
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Neon sign with flashing arrow pointing to him saying "Jesus Symbol, HINT, HINT".

But subtle.
What, no link to tobacco conspiracies?

What purpose would be served by making Scarecrow a Jesus figure? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:24 PM
DrForrester DrForrester is offline
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What, no link to tobacco conspiracies?

What purpose would be served by making Scarecrow a Jesus figure? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Purpose? Maybe just something thrown in to reassure the ultra-religious set that the show (possibly) won't all be pagans writhing about in orgiastic dances .. or, rather, heretical ceremonies.

Personally, I'd just skip over about 50% and try to keep the plot moving right along. But, that's just me.
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Old 01-12-2017, 10:40 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
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[Moderating]

Knowed Out, do not drag in contentious topics from other threads. This thread is for discussing the show Emerald City, not for continuing feuds with other posters. Save that for the Pit.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:15 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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What purpose would be served by making Scarecrow a Jesus figure? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Well, if it was just me, but it's also several other posters here and:
https://www.bustle.com/p/11-wizard-o...rn-times-28362


http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...s-already.html


http://www.vulture.com/2017/01/emera...f-moments.html

and more.
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Old 01-19-2017, 09:27 PM
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Greatness? The show was craptastic. Sharknado had better writing and acting. Emerald City was a confused muddled mess, with occasional flashes of interesting scenery or costuming.

It raised L Frank from the dead, buggered his corpse and then shat on what remained.
I found it somewhere between your take and the fawning praise by the rest. Probably closer to yours but not quite that hostile.

Tin Man, syfy's take on Oz updating from a few years back, IMO was a lot better.
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Old 01-20-2017, 01:07 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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I found it somewhere between your take and the fawning praise by the rest. Probably closer to yours but not quite that hostile.

Tin Man, syfy's take on Oz updating from a few years back, IMO was a lot better.
Tin Man had moments, I'll give you that. I wasnt impressed but by no means did i hate it.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:31 AM
Quercus alba Quercus alba is offline
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Why does Lucas, KS, a town of 300 people, have a huge modern hospital with at least 4 floors? (someone was overhead paged to "4 south" or some such thing).

Killed my suspension of disbelief right there.
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Old 01-21-2017, 12:27 PM
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It's going to be a suburb of Topeka or something and the hospital is outside city limits for tax benefits.
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:38 PM
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It's not so bad!

It's no Game of Thrones but I've enjoyed it with my 12 year old.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:02 PM
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I've watched 3 episodes. Is that all there are? I feel like I missed one, but it's not showing up "On-Demand".

Example: There was the kid who was pushed off the balcony, then in the next episode he's all done up like the tin man but with no in-between action.

Sad.

ETA: Just looked it up on NBC's website. They show 3 episodes: 1, 3, 4. Weird.

Last edited by Kelevra; 01-27-2017 at 03:07 PM.
  #47  
Old 01-27-2017, 03:05 PM
madsircool madsircool is offline
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Did I see some female nudity?
  #48  
Old 01-27-2017, 03:09 PM
Kelevra Kelevra is offline
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I didn't notice it. I can't believe a major network would make that kind of slip up.
  #49  
Old 01-27-2017, 03:49 PM
davidm davidm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelevra View Post
I've watched 3 episodes. Is that all there are? I feel like I missed one, but it's not showing up "On-Demand".

Example: There was the kid who was pushed off the balcony, then in the next episode he's all done up like the tin man but with no in-between action.

Sad.

ETA: Just looked it up on NBC's website. They show 3 episodes: 1, 3, 4. Weird.
On Comcast On Demand the first one is 1 1/2 hours and is labeled 101/102.
  #50  
Old 01-27-2017, 04:32 PM
madsircool madsircool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelevra View Post
I didn't notice it. I can't believe a major network would make that kind of slip up.
Thought I saw the Dorothy character topless in a hot tub. Maybe I was seeing things.
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