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  #1  
Old 02-11-2017, 08:20 PM
escaped escaped is offline
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Handsome and the female beast

They are always making movies about beauty and the beast would it work if they reversed it?
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  #2  
Old 02-11-2017, 08:32 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Depends on exactly what angle the writer took, how skilled the writer was, and where and when it was set.

A salient point is that the beast initially captured "Beauty's" father, and she volunteered to take his place. She keeping a man prisoner isn't out of the question, and the person who eventually falls for the beast is there semi-voluntarily.

There sort of have been versions of it. Shallow Hal was one, albeit, it focused on the transformation of Hal's character, rather than his getting past what are pretty normal reactions to a hideous beast who devours raw meat like any lion or tiger, to see a human personality.

Shallow Hal was a slightly better than average script that was made into a pretty good movie by an excellent performance by Jack Black, and a decent performance by Gwyneth Paltrow. Find a writer who can do even better for your reverse version of "Dude and Beastette," and it would probably be pretty good.
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:40 PM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is online now
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Sir Gawain already managed it.
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:48 PM
Count Blucher Count Blucher is online now
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I think they tried to hint at it in 'Love Potion No. 9', but it was a Total Epic Fail because they chose... Sandra Bullock...
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:51 PM
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Isn't this the central theme of films like She's All That? Handsome guy, cute girl made to look unattractive until she takes her glasses off?
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:02 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
That's really a parody of such stories, and even the "Wife of Bath's Tale" doesn't quite fit, due to the handsome guy being under punishment for being a rapist. But yes, the theme has been around for a while, both ways.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:18 PM
amarinth amarinth is offline
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Isn't this the central theme of films like She's All That? Handsome guy, cute girl made to look unattractive until she takes her glasses off?
No, that's another knockoff of Pygmalion.
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:39 PM
E-DUB E-DUB is offline
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The guy wouldn't care as long as she put out.
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  #9  
Old 02-11-2017, 09:58 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is offline
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Isn't this the central theme of films like She's All That? Handsome guy, cute girl made to look unattractive until she takes her glasses off?
Rachael Leigh Cook as "the beast" in She's All That.

I'm thinking the guys who made this movie missed the point.
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  #10  
Old 02-11-2017, 10:44 PM
panache45 panache45 is offline
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Stephen Sondheim's Passion, and the works it was based on.
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  #11  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:54 AM
astro astro is offline
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Originally Posted by escaped View Post
They are always making movies about beauty and the beast would it work if they reversed it?
It doesn't work conceptually as handsome man and beast/ugly woman doesn't really have the same dramatic tension as the reverse. The closest thing you see in TV or movies is Lena Dunham's lumpy character in "Girls" who is getting action regularly by guys who would probably not (in real life) give her a second look.

Plus good luck getting a current movie greenlight on anything that shames or denigrates a woman's body or looks in any way.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:59 AM
Superdude Superdude is offline
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Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
Rachael Leigh Cook as "the beast" in She's All That.

I'm thinking the guys who made this movie missed the point.
Tell me about it. She's one of my celebrity crushes, but most people I know don't recognize her name.
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  #13  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:15 AM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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It would work if the female were a literal beast, like the beast in "Beauty and the Beast." It wouldn't be about denigrating a woman's body.
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  #14  
Old 02-12-2017, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by RivkahChaya View Post
It would work if the female were a literal beast, like the beast in "Beauty and the Beast." It wouldn't be about denigrating a woman's body.
So why is it okay to denigrate the body of a man - as in the classic tale - but not that of a woman?
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2017, 04:51 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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The thing about the Beast isn't that he's ugly, it's that he's scary and dangerous. The parallel here shouldn't be handsome guy with outwardly plain girl, it should be handsome yet delicate guy with super-tough woman - a fierce, rugged warrior-woman type. A woman who could totally kick his ass, and looks like it. Can't think of any examples, though.

Last edited by Alessan; 02-12-2017 at 04:52 AM..
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  #16  
Old 02-12-2017, 05:40 AM
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The thing about the Beast isn't that he's ugly, it's that he's scary and dangerous.
Isn't that the Disney version?
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  #17  
Old 02-12-2017, 05:51 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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If anything, Disney toned down the element of sexual threat.
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  #18  
Old 02-12-2017, 06:36 AM
Bill Door Bill Door is online now
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Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
The thing about the Beast isn't that he's ugly, it's that he's scary and dangerous. The parallel here shouldn't be handsome guy with outwardly plain girl, it should be handsome yet delicate guy with super-tough woman - a fierce, rugged warrior-woman type. A woman who could totally kick his ass, and looks like it. Can't think of any examples, though.
Zoe and Wash from Firefly/Serenity? For certain values of handsome yet delicate. Certainly within the show it's assumed she could totally kick his ass.
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  #19  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:43 AM
Quartz Quartz is online now
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If anything, Disney toned down the element of sexual threat.
Maybe, but they gave the Beast nobility and a leonine handsomeness. He was by no means ugly.
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  #20  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:44 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Originally Posted by Bill Door View Post
Zoe and Wash from Firefly/Serenity? For certain values of handsome yet delicate. Certainly within the show it's assumed she could totally kick his ass.
I thought of that, but while I have huge amount of respect for Alan Tudyk, I'm not sure I'd call him a "beauty".

The ideal casting for this kind of thing would be something like, say, Ronda Rousey and Nicholas Hoult. Or Daniel Radcliffe and Gwendoline Christie.

Last edited by Alessan; 02-12-2017 at 07:45 AM..
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  #21  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:51 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Maybe, but they gave the Beast nobility and a leonine handsomeness. He was by no means ugly.
That doesn't change the fact that it's "Beauty and the Beast" and not "Beauty and the Ugly Guy", which isn't that much of a story, really - after all, back in the day pretty teenage girls would marry ugly, old rich men all the time.

No, a beast isn't ugly, it's a danger that needs to be tamed or killed. That's what the story is about. It's about power.

Last edited by Alessan; 02-12-2017 at 07:51 AM..
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2017, 09:13 AM
cmkeller cmkeller is online now
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Fran Drescher and Timothy Dalton starred in "The Beautician and the Beast", although Dalton is beastly in behavior rather than in looks.

Last edited by cmkeller; 02-12-2017 at 09:14 AM..
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2017, 09:39 AM
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This is the one I came in to mention.
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2017, 09:58 AM
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I suppose the 2006 movie Penelope would count - especially since it even features a curse that can only be broken by true love.
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  #25  
Old 02-12-2017, 10:50 AM
Trancephalic Trancephalic is offline
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Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
The thing about the Beast isn't that he's ugly, it's that he's scary and dangerous. The parallel here shouldn't be handsome guy with outwardly plain girl, it should be handsome yet delicate guy with super-tough woman - a fierce, rugged warrior-woman type. A woman who could totally kick his ass, and looks like it. Can't think of any examples, though.
My Super Ex-Girlfriend?

I'm thinking the "crazed, domineering girfriend has superpowers" scenario has been down somewhere else... Maybe anime. Would Urusei Yatsura count?
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2017, 10:54 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Bridget Jones's Diary?
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:17 PM
Miller Miller is offline
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Lois Bujold wrote a gender flipped Beauty and the Beast story as part of her ongoing Vorkosigan Saga. The series title character, interstellar super spy Miles Vorkosigan, is captured by his enemies and dumped in a pit with a failed subject from a super-soldier experiment:

"The huge rippling shadow struck out of nowhere, at incredible speed... Miles first saw the fangs as they bit and tore and buried themselves in the rat's tissues. They were functional fangs, not just decorative, set in a protruding jaw, with long lips and a wide mouth; yet the total effect was lupine rather than simian. A flat nose, ridged, powerful brows, high cheekbones. Hair a dark matted mess. And yes, fully eight feet tall, a rangy, tense-muscled body."

Turns out, though, that she's got human intelligence, and isn't any more of a fan of being thrown in a pit than Miles is. They team up and (after a bit of fooling around - Miles is basically Space James Bond, so that's sort of obligatory) escape. Much later in the series, when she's a guest attending a wedding, she even gets a transformation sequence, courtesy of someone with impeccable fashion sense:

"A stunning vision in hunter green stepped through behind her. Oh, it was still Taura, certainly, but ... the skin that had been sallow and dull against the pink was now revealed as a glowing ivory. The green jacket fit very trimly about the waist. Above, her pale shoulders and long neck seemed to bloom from a white linen collar; below, the jacket skirt skimmed out briefly around the upper hips. A narrow skirt continued the long green fall to her firm calves. Wide linen cuffs decorated with subtle white braid made her hands look, if not small, well-proportioned. The pink nail polish was gone, replaced by a dark mahogany shade. The heavy braid hanging down her back had been transformed into a mysteriously knotted arrangement, clinging close to her head and set off with a green ... hat? feather? anyway, a neat little accent tilted to the other side. The odd shape of her face seemed suddenly artistic and sophisticated rather than distorted."

The only way it doesn't quite fit the "Beauty and the Beast" motif is that Miles is no beauty, conventionally speaking: he's a scarred hunchback who's just this side of dwarfism. But a major theme of the series is, "What exactly does 'conventional beauty' mean in a post-human society?"
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:28 PM
Miller Miller is offline
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So why is it okay to denigrate the body of a man - as in the classic tale - but not that of a woman?
Because the "classic" tale isn't insulting to men's bodies. Most gender-flipped "Beauty and the Beast" stories don't feature actually "beastly" looking women - they feature women who just aren't particularly pretty. If you hold up, say, Shallow Hal as a "Beauty anf the Beast" story, you're saying that women who look like this are "beasts." There's a lot of real women out there who look like that, and most of them probably don't appreciate being called a "beast." Conversely, the "classic" version of the story features a guy who looks like this. There aren't any men who actually look like that. Calling that a "beast" isn't denigrating any real person's body.
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  #29  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:29 PM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
Lois Bujold wrote a gender flipped Beauty and the Beast story as part of her ongoing Vorkosigan Saga. The series title character, interstellar super spy Miles Vorkosigan, is captured by his enemies and dumped in a pit with a failed subject from a super-soldier experiment:

"The huge rippling shadow struck out of nowhere, at incredible speed... Miles first saw the fangs as they bit and tore and buried themselves in the rat's tissues. They were functional fangs, not just decorative, set in a protruding jaw, with long lips and a wide mouth; yet the total effect was lupine rather than simian. A flat nose, ridged, powerful brows, high cheekbones. Hair a dark matted mess. And yes, fully eight feet tall, a rangy, tense-muscled body."

Turns out, though, that she's got human intelligence, and isn't any more of a fan of being thrown in a pit than Miles is. They team up and (after a bit of fooling around - Miles is basically Space James Bond, so that's sort of obligatory) escape. Much later in the series, when she's a guest attending a wedding, she even gets a transformation sequence, courtesy of someone with impeccable fashion sense:

"A stunning vision in hunter green stepped through behind her. Oh, it was still Taura, certainly, but ... the skin that had been sallow and dull against the pink was now revealed as a glowing ivory. The green jacket fit very trimly about the waist. Above, her pale shoulders and long neck seemed to bloom from a white linen collar; below, the jacket skirt skimmed out briefly around the upper hips. A narrow skirt continued the long green fall to her firm calves. Wide linen cuffs decorated with subtle white braid made her hands look, if not small, well-proportioned. The pink nail polish was gone, replaced by a dark mahogany shade. The heavy braid hanging down her back had been transformed into a mysteriously knotted arrangement, clinging close to her head and set off with a green ... hat? feather? anyway, a neat little accent tilted to the other side. The odd shape of her face seemed suddenly artistic and sophisticated rather than distorted."

The only way it doesn't quite fit the "Beauty and the Beast" motif is that Miles is no beauty, conventionally speaking: he's a scarred hunchback who's just this side of dwarfism. But a major theme of the series is, "What exactly does 'conventional beauty' mean in a post-human society?"

Good example! Also, remember that by the time of the wedding, Taura and Miles are no longer an item - instead, she's started a very sweet courtship with Miles's handsome, strapping young man-at-arms.

Last edited by Alessan; 02-12-2017 at 12:30 PM..
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  #30  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:57 PM
furryman furryman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
The thing about the Beast isn't that he's ugly, it's that he's scary and dangerous. The parallel here shouldn't be handsome guy with outwardly plain girl, it should be handsome yet delicate guy with super-tough woman - a fierce, rugged warrior-woman type. A woman who could totally kick his ass, and looks like it. Can't think of any examples, though.
Although I wouldn't call any of the male characters "handsome" that's pretty much the plot of nearly every harem anime ever.
Also there's the whole "femdom" fetish as well. Although it's fairly obvious the guys in these stories have psychological issues.
Do not look up femdom at work.

Last edited by furryman; 02-12-2017 at 12:59 PM..
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  #31  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:11 PM
Tim R. Mortiss Tim R. Mortiss is offline
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Originally Posted by Alessan View Post
The thing about the Beast isn't that he's ugly, it's that he's scary and dangerous. The parallel here shouldn't be handsome guy with outwardly plain girl, it should be handsome yet delicate guy with super-tough woman - a fierce, rugged warrior-woman type. A woman who could totally kick his ass, and looks like it. Can't think of any examples, though.
I don't know if it's been done, but I could see a Star Trek episode where one of the female Klingon sisters or a similar character is trapped in a shuttlecraft (or on a deserted planet) with a wimpy ensign, possibly Wesley Crusher or a similar guest character.
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:24 PM
RivkahChaya RivkahChaya is offline
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Isn't that the Disney version?
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Originally Posted by cmkeller View Post
Fran Drescher and Timothy Dalton starred in "The Beautician and the Beast", although Dalton is beastly in behavior rather than in looks.
Actually, the beast is beastly in behavior, although he tries to hide some of his more appalling behavior from beauty. He won't eat with her, because he eats like a wild carnivore, for example. And he was turned into a beast in the first place for being an asshole. He has to change his character, and convince someone that he has changed to the point that she will love him, in order to change back.

The Disney version is way cuter than any fairy tale version, or the 1946 live-action French film, which is sometimes classified as a horror film.
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  #33  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:31 PM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Do not look up femdom at work.
I am familiar with the term.
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  #34  
Old 02-12-2017, 03:09 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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Gene Wilder falls in love with a sheep in that Woody Allen movie.
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  #35  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:13 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Tell me about it. She's one of my celebrity crushes, but most people I know don't recognize her name.
Hey, I thought of her just a couple of days ago. When I saw this, I immediately thought of this.
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  #36  
Old 02-15-2017, 08:41 AM
Knowed Out Knowed Out is offline
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The movie She Devil comes to mind.

Absolutely Fabulous doesn't have any steady male presence, but Edina and Patsy are definitely she-beasts.

Flashman's Lady has the title character, a handsome charismatic rake, fall into the sadistic clutches of Ranavalona, mad Queen of Madagascar. Flashman also becomes the slave of eventual Empress Dowager of China in Flashman and the Dragon.
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  #37  
Old 02-15-2017, 09:26 AM
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Fran Drescher and Timothy Dalton starred in "The Beautician and the Beast", although Dalton is beastly in behavior rather than in looks.
Speaking of Fran Drescher, what about The Nanny? She was extremely annoying in the first couple of years in the show, as opposed to Charles Shaughnessy as Maxwell Sheffield.
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  #38  
Old 02-15-2017, 10:14 AM
GargoyleWB GargoyleWB is offline
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...
The ideal casting for this kind of thing would be something like, say, Ronda Rousey and Nicholas Hoult. Or Daniel Radcliffe and Gwendoline Christie.
How about any Gerard Depardieu movie?
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  #39  
Old 02-15-2017, 10:31 AM
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In Philip Reeve's Mortal Engines books, the male protagonist Tom Natsworthy is young (15 at the start), handsome, nave and relentlessly upbeat. The female protagonist Hester Shaw is an amoral murderer who had, when younger, been struck on the face with a sword costing her an eye and most of her nose and causing her mouth to be upturned in a permanent snarl. They are thrown together and forced to co-operate for survival, yadda yadda yadda, love ensues but a lot of people die along the way. So she is hideous, scary AND dangerous, and yet he loves her and she him (eventually).

BTW not to spoil the books (there are four in the series) but at no point does she miraculously transform into a beauty.
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  #40  
Old 02-15-2017, 12:09 PM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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How about any Gerard Depardieu movie?
That's not a reversal, is it?
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  #41  
Old 02-15-2017, 02:20 PM
GargoyleWB GargoyleWB is offline
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That's not a reversal, is it?
Doh, you're right. I think I was confused by Rhonda Rousey in your post, who IMO is a beauty not a beast. Or I just confused myself independently. I'll go sit on the group W bench now.
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2017, 03:18 PM
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Not quite a great fit, but Shrek works to an extent.
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2017, 04:31 PM
F. U. Shakespeare F. U. Shakespeare is offline
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Wasn't that sort of the plot of "The Way We Were"?

Robert Redford was arguably the top male heartthrob in movies at the time, and Barbra Streisand wasn't considered "conventionally beautiful". But he was attracted to her sincerity and devotion to her political causes.
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  #44  
Old 02-15-2017, 10:25 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Interesting how in the "she-beast" examples provided, she still looks like an attractive woman who either acts crazy or is 10-15 lbs overweight.
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  #45  
Old 02-15-2017, 10:39 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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Old SNL where there is some confusion as to who is the "Beast"
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  #46  
Old 02-16-2017, 01:42 AM
Aspidistra Aspidistra is offline
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Originally Posted by Miller View Post
Lois Bujold wrote a gender flipped Beauty and the Beast story as part of her ongoing Vorkosigan Saga. The series title character, interstellar super spy Miles Vorkosigan, is captured by his enemies and dumped in a pit with a failed subject from a super-soldier experiment:
If we're including SF novels, then the "loathly brides" out of Julian May's Pleictocene Exile saga would certainly count - mutated aliens who end up taking husbands from the ranks of the sex-starved heavily-male-skewed human population, because they can trick the humans into thinking they're actually beautiful ... until they go to sleep. And while the chief "loathly bride", Rowane, is clearly a sweet kind thing who only wants to be nice to her man, she is a Firvulag, and they do have those teeth...
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  #47  
Old 02-16-2017, 03:09 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
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Interesting how in the "she-beast" examples provided, she still looks like an attractive woman who either acts crazy or is 10-15 lbs overweight.
I posit that even in the original tales, the male "beast" is not supposed to be sexually unattractive either. In fact, I'd say his beastliness makes him more attractive, which is part of the story's appeal.

Last edited by Alessan; 02-16-2017 at 03:10 AM..
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  #48  
Old 02-16-2017, 03:21 AM
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I posit that even in the original tales, the male "beast" is not supposed to be sexually unattractive either. In fact, I'd say his beastliness makes him more attractive, which is part of the story's appeal.
Dude's bad boy cool, as opposed to Bluebeard who is bad boy totally uncool.
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  #49  
Old 02-16-2017, 09:43 AM
LC Strawhouse LC Strawhouse is offline
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Sugarbaby (aka Zuckerbaby) is a 1985 German "romantic comedy" where the lead woman character is an obese mortuary worker. Poster
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