The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > Cafe Society

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:48 AM
Quasimodem Quasimodem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Gary Cooper Was "John Wayne".....

......before being John Wayne was cool. Just look for the tallest, good-lookingest guy!

Here is my all-time favorite Gary Cooper Western with some other folks I am sure you will recognize.

The wonderful and beautiful Susan Hayward is one of these and her grave is located about 8 miles away from here at a church ("Our Lady Of Perpetual Help") she built.

Maybe you'll enjoy this flick as much as I do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtrh...h9tLq0jrGQ38_M

Quasi

PS: If this doesn't show correctly, please fix it for me? It's a GREAT movie and I'd hate for my friends to miss out.

Last edited by Quasimodem; 02-12-2017 at 12:48 AM..
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 02-12-2017, 01:35 AM
The Other Waldo Pepper The Other Waldo Pepper is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasimodem View Post
......before being John Wayne was cool. Just look for the tallest, good-lookingest guy!
In a google image search for "tall, dark, and handsome", the first hit is Clark Gable.

Just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-12-2017, 02:51 AM
Quasimodem Quasimodem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Gave you a link. Don't want to use it, fine with me.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-12-2017, 12:13 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 21,329
I don't want to follow the link either, but what's wrong with having a discussion? If you ONLY accept our following the links, what's to discuss?

To me, Gary Cooper was always a little too sophisticated to be "John Wayne." JW was kinda thuggish, a blunt instrument, whereas GC had suavity and class, even when playing rather coarse characters.

Cooper was The Virginian. Wayne was G.W. McClintock. You wouldn't (?) see Cooper spanking a woman with a fireplace shovel.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-12-2017, 07:12 PM
NDP NDP is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: PNW USA
Posts: 7,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinopus View Post
To me, Gary Cooper was always a little too sophisticated to be "John Wayne." JW was kinda thuggish, a blunt instrument, whereas GC had suavity and class, even when playing rather coarse characters.

Cooper was The Virginian. Wayne was G.W. McClintock. You wouldn't (?) see Cooper spanking a woman with a fireplace shovel.
Then again, it's hard to imagine Wayne as Marshall Will Kane in High Noon or as any of the protagonists played by Cooper in his movies for Frank Capra. That said, it's too bad Cooper didn't live long enough to do a movie with Wayne. Both Cooper and Wayne represent the best known archetypes of the Western hero in American movies but they were different enough in character and style that seeing them play off one another in a film would've been interesting to say the least.
__________________
Can also be seen at:

Last FM Library Thing
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-12-2017, 08:22 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 21,329
Total Agreement! It would have been great!

Sort of like the Kirk Douglas/Burt Lancaster team-ups. They were so damn good together!

(For some reason, I'm also envisioning Cary Grant and Humphrey Bogart in the same movie... Ah, the possibilities!)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-12-2017, 08:52 PM
F. U. Shakespeare F. U. Shakespeare is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Baltimore or less
Posts: 3,666
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Other Waldo Pepper View Post
In a google image search for "tall, dark, and handsome", the first hit is Clark Gable.

Just saying.
If you want to say that, smile!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-13-2017, 04:07 AM
NDP NDP is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: PNW USA
Posts: 7,746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinopus View Post
Total Agreement! It would have been great!

Sort of like the Kirk Douglas/Burt Lancaster team-ups. They were so damn good together!

(For some reason, I'm also envisioning Cary Grant and Humphrey Bogart in the same movie... Ah, the possibilities!)
In the case of a movie with Cooper and Wayne, who would've you like to see direct: Howard Hawks or John Ford?
__________________
Can also be seen at:

Last FM Library Thing
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-13-2017, 07:29 PM
Trinopus Trinopus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 21,329
I'm ashamed to say, I don't know enough to vote. I know a few John Ford movies, but I could not, to save my life, name a Howard Hawks movie.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-13-2017, 10:11 PM
AppallingGael AppallingGael is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
John Wayne Wilson, the real-life "Mr. Goodbar" killer, became Gary Cooper White in the novel. So sometimes it goes the other way.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-14-2017, 03:01 AM
john b. john b. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
In terms of being the most popular star of western films, yes, Cooper was there before Wayne, but there were major differences between the two as to style, as mentioned by others on this thread, and also the way they came up. Coop came up in the late silent-early talkie era, hit the ground running with the 1929 The Virginian, was a major star from that point on but not a superstar till 1936 and the twofer of The Plainsman and Mr. Deeds Goes To Town. Cooper went beyond being a cowboy star, became a sort of iconic All-American hero with Sergeant York-Pride Of The Yankees in 1941-42. From that point on till his death twenty years later he was like a demi-god in Hollywood even as his box-office was up and down.

John Wayne, interestingly,--to movie buffs like me--came up the hard way. While Cooper entered the scene as a gentleman, an aristocrat, whether out west or in the Foreign Legion, Wayne started out as a stuntman, small parts player, got a big break with The Big Trail (1930), which bombed, then spent the next nine years as a B cowboy star. John Ford's casting of Wayne in Stagecoach changed all that, but even so, for the next decade Wayne was now just a mid-level action star at the level of, say, Randolph Scott, not too shabby but nothing iconic there, either.

When Howard Hawks cast Wayne as the ornery, stubborn Texas cattleman in Red River (1948) that changed everything: from that point on Wayne was a superstar, spent three years at the number one spot of box-office draws (a distinction Cooper never achieved); and his popularity, unlike Cooper's was broader based, with Wayne specializing more in "common man" roles, or "common men called to greatness" roles rather than play more noble heroes of the sort that were Cooper's stock in trade. Nobility just didn't seem to agree with Wayne, and movie audiences apparently love him for it. He was a "one of us" kind of guy.

Anyway, I've probably gone on too long with this, the long and the short of it as I see it as that while Gary Cooper was Hollywood's Cowboy Prince, somewhat above the fray, Wayne was the "Duke", a rough and tumble guy who liked to fight, and who also liked to drink and chase women, something Cooper did more off-screen than on. I find it fascinating that retrospectively there seems to be little or no rivalry between the fans of these two screen legends, probably due largely to Wayne's living fifteen years after Cooper's death, the controversy that often swirled around him as a public figure in those years due to his conservative political views. For all this, Wayne still seems the popular favorite for a number of reasons too complicated to go into here. I think that his association with major directors John Ford and Howard Hawks are a major factor in this, as both directors are still highly regarded, while Cooper, who also worked with many major directors, is more associated with men like William Wyler and Cecil B. DeMille (read: old school). Every little bit helps.

Last edited by john b.; 02-14-2017 at 03:05 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-14-2017, 06:51 AM
Captain Amazing Captain Amazing is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 24,656
John Wayne on High Noon:

Quote:
“In that picture, four guys come in to gun down the sheriff. He goes to the church and asks for help and the guys go, 'Oh well, Oh. gee.' And the women stand up and say, 'You're rats. You're rats. You're rats.' So Cooper goes out alone.”

“It's the most un-American thing I've seen in my whole life,”
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-14-2017, 01:11 PM
Johanna Johanna is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Altered States of America
Posts: 12,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Amazing View Post
John Wayne on High Noon:
Thank you for that segue, Captain Amazing. While I don't know all that much about Westerns, I do follow civil rights and civil liberties.

High Noon's screenwriter was Carl Foreman. He was one of the most heavily blacklisted men in Hollywood from the 1950s red scare. He got to write the screenplay for The Bridge on the River Kwai only by using a pseudonym. High Noon was Foreman's and others' allegorical critique of McCarthyism. For this the right-wingers wanted his head. Foreman had to spend the 1950s in England to be able to get work.

John Wayne, in particular, boasted that he "would never regret having helped run Foreman out of this country." By contrast, Gary Cooper was among those who defended Foreman from getting kicked out of the High Noon production.

In a magnificent flourish of poetic justice, after badmouthing the movie for being Communistic, Wayne was persuaded to accept Cooper's Academy Award for him while Gary was overseas.
Reply With Quote
Reply



Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2017 Sun-Times Media, LLC.