Straight Dope Message Board

[Airman Doors, USAF]

So there I was, holding off until opening day, trying to find the appropriate angle for the opening of my annual thread, and as he has so many times before when he was with Pittsburgh and wasn't a CTE-afflicted lunatic who no longer has any control over himself, Antonio Brown came through for me. After all the stuff about Big Ben and Mike Tomlin not having control and deep-freezing his feet and not being able to find a helmet big enough to fit that ego-swelled melon, he is about to be suspended by the Raiders and may lose all of his guaranteed money before even playing a game. This idiocy has not only vindicated my beloved Steelers, but getting a 3rd and a 5th-round draft pick for a guy who couldn't even make it to week one has to go down as one of the Steelers' best trades of all time. Tomlin had no control? He kept this under control for years. Gruden couldn't do it for a month. Ah, it's such a relief that this is now someone else's problem.

Also a relief is that football is back, and this year there are none of the distractions of the last few years for Pittsburgh. You could argue that objectively they are a worse team than they were two years ago without Bell and Brown, but this is a genuine case of addition by subtraction. Conner is a Pro Bowl player, JuJu is a bonafide number one receiver, and in the preseason Washington showed he was much improved from last year. Ben is still Ben, Mason Rudolph is looking like a solid backup and (potential) future starter, the offensive line is still beast, and there's little reason to doubt they'll still put up tons of points. Hopefully Boswell's yips are gone for good. They seem to be, but these things are unpredictable so it will still be a bit of a wild ride for a while.

The real story, though, is the defense. Pittsburgh traded up to get Devin Bush, something they almost never do, and my God, he is everything they hoped for and more. He is a true replacement for Shazier, and with him out there it will make everybody better. Look for career years from Watt and Dupree. The secondary is the best it's been since the glory days of Polamalu. This defense can be as great as it wants to be.

The pundits on aggregate have the Browns and the Steelers duking it out for the division, with the Rats maybe pulling it out and the Bungles pursuing the number one pick. I think they pretty much have it right but they're giving the Rats' run-only offense too much credit. If Jackson throws 25 times a game they'll be 6-10, and if he doesn't the league will figure it out quickly and they'll be 8-8 at best. As for the Browns, they haven't played a meaningful down yet and Cleveland is already all-in on a Super Bowl. As the Iggles proved a few years ago, so-called Dream Teams don't always work out as hoped. Lots of egos to feed, lots of questions to answer, lots of maybes. In the Factory of Sadness, those historically turn into losses, annually at the hands of the winningest QB in the history of the stadium, Big Ben. We'll see, but when in doubt, remember it's Cleveland. If you don't, they'll usually remind you sooner or later.

I'm always excited for the beginning of the season (as the previous 15 of these will attest to), but this year I'm really hyped. It's not exactly a fresh start, but now that the trash has been taken out and the damage has been repaired things are looking up. I'm more optimistic than usual about Pittsburgh's chances, although I can't account for the blown calls that screwed them out of the playoffs last year (blow me, Saints fans, the Steelers missed the playoffs because of two horrible DPI calls against your team, so suck that schadenfreude down deep and hard). Bring on the Patriots. Bring on the Chiefs. Just bring it. My beloved Steelers are ready for you. 1

[Isosleepy]

Ju-Ju is not a bona-fide #1 receiver until he’s played some games as a #1 WR. I have high hopes, and he has great talent, but still a big change to absorb quickly.
I wish we were more solid at TE. But I think this is a great team, and I think an upset in Foxboro is distinctly possible.
I also think that significant chunks of the Burgh owe Tomlin an apology: clearly his ability to keep the locker room as under control as he did signified success, not failure, as we are being shown now from across the continent. I retract my earlier comments re: clowncars and elephants.
There is talent, there is morale, and the X-factor of Big Ben. Should be a fun season. 2

[Atamasama]

I like Ju-Ju. I hope he does well in every game that’s not playing against Seattle. 3

[Airman Doors, USAF]

So it’s still LOL RAIDERS but man, didn’t everybody expect that ending? If the NFL doesn’t launch a tampering investigation into the Patriots and Drew Rosenhaus... I mean, every GM in the league that Jay Glaser talked to said they thought the fix was in.

Anyway, he’s New England’s problem now. And New England, sans AB, is Pittsburgh’s problem tonight.

So I think Pittsburgh is going to win. They won last time, they “won” the time before that and were cheated out of it by a call so bad it changed the rules, and that was without Bell and with the now departed cancer. New England is without Gronk, presumably forever, and he was Pittsburgh’s torturer. Brady is at home so he’ll get 2-3 Roughing the Brady calls and no matter how he chooses to intentionally ground the ball the refs will swallow their whistles, and of course Patrick Chung is still playing despite being indicted on federal drug charges, but none of that matters. Top to bottom overall Pittsburgh is a better team this year, and they’ll show it tonight.

28-21 Pittsburgh. 4

[Velocity]

Of all games for AB to be ineligible to play in, why did it have to be this one? 5

[Isosleepy]

Originally Posted by Velocity

Of all games for AB to be ineligible to play in, why did it have to be this one?

Because while the Patriots continuously prove that the universe is inherently unjust, there are limits to even that. 6

[Isosleepy]

Stiller D unimpressive so far. Can’t make mistakes like that. Not against NE (you can against Cincinnati, but that’s for another time). 7

[Isosleepy]

so far no question who the better team is. And it isn’t mine. 8

[Isosleepy]

Wow. 9

[wolfman]

Has anyone told them the games count now? 10

[Isosleepy]

Can we just keep the clock running now, so I can go to bed at a decent hour? 11

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by wolfman

Has anyone told them the games count now?

Apparently not. They’re not necessarily doing anything wrong, they’re just showing Brady too much respect, which all teams do for some reason. He’s not a Superman. 12

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

Apparently not. They’re not necessarily doing anything wrong, they’re just showing Brady too much respect, which all teams do for some reason. He’s not a Superman.

To sharpen focus on things; "They’re not necessarily doing anything..." sums up that half. 13

[Isosleepy]

JuJu not quite up to it yet. Excellent receiver, lots of talent, but being contained by one defender, let alone beating two. Add some drops from Moncrief, others, and occasional defense mistakes and we are Tom Brady’s diaper. Not irreparable, but not confidence inspiring either. 14

[Velocity]

Steelers can never hold a candle to Pats as long as B&B are running the show in New England. 15

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

Can we just keep the clock running now, so I can go to bed at a decent hour?

Good username + post combo... 16

[Isosleepy]

Had I a candle, I could not light it, for it would be soaked in my tears of grief. The difference between the Steelers and the Dolphins today is.... Heck, I dunno. 17

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

Had I a candle, I could not light it, for it would be soaked in my tears of grief. The difference between the Steelers and the Dolphins today is.... Heck, I dunno.

Ehhh, they'd have only lost to Baltimore by 14.


As for the Dolphins, those two games they have to play against New England will be ugly. 18

[Isosleepy]

“False start, entire offense except for the center” Comedy gold. And up until now there was at least one point of light: Ben hadn’t thrown an int. But scratch that, too. 19

[Omniscient]

That thread title did not age well. 20

[wolfman]

Originally Posted by Velocity

As for the Dolphins, those two games they have to play against New England will be ugly.

And that was the smartest thing they could ever do. Full Tanking, just give up and accumulate until the Brady era is over.

I halfway wonder if your shitsbhurgers are doing the same damn thing while building Ben's monument/effigy simultaneously 21

[ShadowFacts]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

I think an upset in Foxboro is distinctly possible.

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

So I think Pittsburgh is going to win...

28-21 Pittsburgh.

Hope springs eternal. 22

[Xema]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

He’s not a Superman.

True - but he's cultivated a habit of occasionally playing like one.

There can't be a lot of fans outside New England who are real happy today about the message the Steelers (widely considered a quality team) have delivered as to the Patriots' 2019 prospects. 23

[Harrington]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

I think an upset in Foxboro is distinctly possible.

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

So I think Pittsburgh is going to win...

28-21 Pittsburgh.

Originally Posted by ShadowFacts

Hope springs eternal.

It's not mere hope, it's thinking your team is going to win because you like them. It's psychologically interesting. 24

[Isosleepy]

Originally Posted by Harrington

It's not mere hope, it's thinking your team is going to win because you like them. It's psychologically interesting.

I wasn’t wrong. That was upsetting AF. 25

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Isosleepy

“False start, entire offense except for the center” Comedy gold.

I watched that live during the game and couldn’t believe I saw it. It’s like something you’d see in a wacky sports comedy, not a real NFL game. 26

[Guinastasia]

Oh that was painful. I keep telling myself it's only the first game, but my god, what the FUCK?

And of course, there are fans out there saying that it's our fault for not keeping Brown. Da'hell? (Seriously, there are people saying we should've kept him)

Dan and Art are rolling in their graves. 27

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Xema

True - but he's cultivated a habit of occasionally playing like one.

There can't be a lot of fans outside New England who are real happy today about the message the Steelers (widely considered a quality team) have delivered as to the Patriots' 2019 prospects.

Seriously, though. It’s like the line in Catch Me If You Can about the Yankees. Nobody can keep their eyes off the pinstripes. Teams go up against the Patriots and they’re all hyped up and they have this great plan, and then they see the logo and it’s over. The Patriots don’t do anything special, which makes you wonder why they can do it but nobody else can. It was one trick play, one or two deep passes, and a whole bunch of Edelman across the middle. Every game it’s the same thing, and NOBODY CAN STOP IT. They’re getting used up by an average-sized white boy who couldn’t even get off the bench in college, that nobody wanted and everybody passed on 6 times, who’s now Methuselah in football years.

I’ve been watching it for years, and I can’t figure it out, but I don’t feel bad about that because the guys who get paid to figure it out can’t either. It simply blows the mind. 28

[Atamasama]

I think you’re underestimating Belichick. You don’t have 16 seasons in a row of 10+ wins (even in the weakest division) if people are just intimidated by your reputation. He analyzes teams and is a genius at developing a style of play to beat that team. Most teams have a style they stick to; heavy passing, heavy running, blitz a lot, use trick plays, man/zone coverage, and so on. The Patriots don’t, they change every week to become the team that will beat you. That means they often don’t look like a great team. They look bland because they don’t have some cool thing that wows you every game. They are like putty that is reshaped constantly. Putty is boring and unimpressive. New England just wins. Brady seems to execute those plans well, also, so he deserves some credit. He’s a big part of why they’ve been so good for so long even if his stats aren’t always beating the other QBs. Like Belichick, he just wins.

The last Super Bowl was a perfect example. They had a game plan that was invented to beat LA on offense and defense. They forced Goff to improvise and think and make decisions, and gambled on him being a so-so QB who follows good schemes and can’t save a play on his own, and it worked. They restricted them to 3 points. They looked weak doing it, and in my eyes it was a lousy, dull game. But they won and won solidly. That’s what the Patriots do.

I think one reason why they aren’t a popular team is because they aren’t that exciting outside of winning a lot. If you are a fan of the team you have to love having your wagon hitched to a constant winner. But if you’re not, you tend to not have much reason to enjoy their games. Generally the other team in any given game is more fun and you want to see them win instead.

...Plus, odds are they probably beat your team some time in the recent past and you might resent them for that, since they win so much. As a Seahawks fan I doubt it’s hard to guess why I have a tinge of resentment toward them. 29

[Velocity]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

I think you’re underestimating Belichick. You don’t have 16 seasons in a row of 10+ wins (even in the weakest division) if people are just intimidated by your reputation. He analyzes teams and is a genius at developing a style of play to beat that team. Most teams have a style they stick to; heavy passing, heavy running, blitz a lot, use trick plays, man/zone coverage, and so on. The Patriots don’t, they change every week to become the team that will beat you. That means they often don’t look like a great team. They look bland because they don’t have some cool thing that wows you every game. They are like putty that is reshaped constantly. Putty is boring and unimpressive. New England just wins. Brady seems to execute those plans well, also, so he deserves some credit. He’s a big part of why they’ve been so good for so long even if his stats aren’t always beating the other QBs. Like Belichick, he just wins.

The last Super Bowl was a perfect example. They had a game plan that was invented to beat LA on offense and defense. They forced Goff to improvise and think and make decisions, and gambled on him being a so-so QB who follows good schemes and can’t save a play on his own, and it worked. They restricted them to 3 points. They looked weak doing it, and in my eyes it was a lousy, dull game. But they won and won solidly. That’s what the Patriots do.

I think one reason why they aren’t a popular team is because they aren’t that exciting outside of winning a lot. If you are a fan of the team you have to love having your wagon hitched to a constant winner. But if you’re not, you tend to not have much reason to enjoy their games. Generally the other team in any given game is more fun and you want to see them win instead.

...Plus, odds are they probably beat your team some time in the recent past and you might resent them for that, since they win so much. As a Seahawks fan I doubt it’s hard to guess why I have a tinge of resentment toward them.

The best example of this is Super Bowl XXXIX, against the Eagles, in February 2005. The Patriots had always been a 4-3 defense team, but in between the AFC title game and the Super Bowl, they transformed themselves in pre-SB practice into becoming a 3-4 defense. Most teams would never try to change horses mid-stream like that. 30

[Isosleepy]

I agree about Darth Hood. On SNF one of the two coaches had analyzed the last game, watched ton of film, and extrapolated what the absence of certain personnel meant for the likely plays. The other coach went for a field goal when down 20 points at 4th and goal near the end of the first half. New England plays you, specifically, when you play them. And Brady is a machine, with all the appeal of a robot, but also the near zero error rate. 31

[Xema]

Very good analysis by Atamasama.

Originally Posted by Atamasama

The last Super Bowl was a perfect example. ... in my eyes it was a lousy, dull game.

I concur. It was also about the best defensive performance ever in a Super Bowl, unforeseen by the 'experts'. 32

[Guinastasia]

Statement from the family of former Steeler, Sam Davis 33

[Isosleepy]

Finally a touchdown for the Stillers. After 75 minutes of regular season football. Apparently we can get it in if we start on the 22 and the other guys make 2 critical mistakes. 34

[Airman Doors, USAF]

The Mason Rudolph era begins with a nice pass dropped and intercepted.

Damn it all to hell. 35

[Isosleepy]

Montcrief, good grief. 36

[Airman Doors, USAF]

I did NOT expect the season to start 0-2. I don’t know what the deal is with Moncrief, but that drop and interception doomed them.

On the plus side, and there is one even at 0-2, Mason Rudolph looked very much like the future. He didn’t make a single mistake outside of throwing the ball to Stone Hands. He definitely validated the faith the team put on him and made trading Dobbs an easy choice. He looked confident when Ben did not.

Damn, I wanted a win out of that. But it’s a long season, so I’m not panicked yet. 37

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

I did NOT expect the season to start 0-2. I don’t know what the deal is with Moncrief, but that drop and interception doomed them.

On the plus side, and there is one even at 0-2, Mason Rudolph looked very much like the future. He didn’t make a single mistake outside of throwing the ball to Stone Hands. He definitely validated the faith the team put on him and made trading Dobbs an easy choice. He looked confident when Ben did not.

Damn, I wanted a win out of that. But it’s a long season, so I’m not panicked yet.

As a Seattle fan of course I was not rooting for the Steelers, but after a while I was rooting for Rudolph. He was good. I think Pittsburgh fans should be encouraged by his play, as Ben gets older. Rudolph could be a really good QB, he showed a lot of poise and athleticism, even patience when having a defender bearing down at him unblocked. As a second year player that’s impressive. 38

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

As a Seattle fan of course I was not rooting for the Steelers, but after a while I was rooting for Rudolph. He was good. I think Pittsburgh fans should be encouraged by his play, as Ben gets older. Rudolph could be a really good QB, he showed a lot of poise and athleticism, even patience when having a defender bearing down at him unblocked. As a second year player that’s impressive.

It’s even more than that. He wasn’t active for any games last year. This was his first game action of any kind out of the preseason. They said he was raw and talented but needed development time, which usually translates to “career backup at best”. He looked very much like a bonafide NFL quarterback today. 39

[Little Nemo]

I didn't watch the game but I heard mention that Roethlisberger was injured and left the game. Is it serious? 40

[Airman Doors, USAF]

Originally Posted by Little Nemo

I didn't watch the game but I heard mention that Roethlisberger was injured and left the game. Is it serious?

Every time he threw the ball he would grab his elbow. I’m not sure if it’s serious but he certainly couldn’t go. 41

[Atamasama]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

Every time he threw the ball he would grab his elbow. I’m not sure if it’s serious but he certainly couldn’t go.

Yeah toward the end of the first half he would grab his throwing elbow. They even burned a timeout to allow him to try to “shake it off” as he wiggled his arm around. He got sacked a few times, the Seattle defense was getting to him, so I don’t know if he got hurt during one of those hits.

After his last possession of the half, he was taken into the locker room for evaluation. He came back out to the sideline but had his hat on, no helmet. The Steelers didn’t get the ball back and the half ended with a missed Seattle field goal.

As they opened the second half, Rudolph took the field and played the rest of the game. So it was serious enough to hang their hopes on an untested QB with no experience (who again, did a great job, they looked better with him than with Ben). 42

[Atamasama]

A correction; Roethlisberger only got sacked once, it seemed like it was more than that. He only completed 7-of-15 (just a hair over 50%) before he left. I attribute the bad elbow to his inaccuracy. 43

[Xema]

Originally Posted by Atamasama

He only completed 7-of-15 (just a hair over 50%) ...

For values of "over" that include "under".

(But my sources say he was 8 of 15, so "hair over" works.)

I attribute the bad elbow to his inaccuracy.

I'd have said it was the other way 'round. 44

[enalzi]

Per Adam Schefter: "A decision is expected today on whether Steelers’ QB Ben Roethlisberger will need elbow surgery, per league sources. Roethlisberger wants to avoid it all costs, but ultimately doctors will decide whether that’s possible." 45

[borschevsky]

Schefter says Ben's out for the year. 46

[Velocity]

Time to retire.


By the way, if Roethlisberger goes on IR for the rest of the season before retiring next spring, does he collect more salary than if he just retired today? 47

[Isosleepy]

Multiple sources now say Ben is out. Season wasn’t looking so hot to begin with, but now we will be fighting the Bungles for last place in the AFC North. Oh well. Let the re-building begin. 3 years? 5? 48

[Atamasama]

It’s official, here is the announcement on the Steelers’ web site by Tomlin:
https://www.steelers.com/news/tomlin...roethlisberger 49

[ShadowFacts]

Originally Posted by Airman Doors, USAF

I'm always excited for the beginning of the season (as the previous 15 of these will attest to), but this year I'm really hyped. It's not exactly a fresh start, but now that the trash has been taken out and the damage has been repaired things are looking up. I'm more optimistic than usual about Pittsburgh's chances, although I can't account for the blown calls that screwed them out of the playoffs last year (blow me, Saints fans, the Steelers missed the playoffs because of two horrible DPI calls against your team, so suck that schadenfreude down deep and hard). Bring on the Patriots. Bring on the Chiefs. Just bring it. My beloved Steelers are ready for you.

Remember that sweet, sweet, hopeful time of... 11 days ago?

Then again, maybe Rudolph will be the Tom Brady of 2019! It could happen! (He did actually look pretty decent from what little I saw.) 50