Do front-loading washers clean as well as top-loaders?

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

We tried one of those and dumped it in a week. They're just as slow as the front loaders, and also try to get away with using 3 gallons of water in what appears to be a 30 gallon drum. The worst of both worlds. Not drinking the kool-aid.

It is slow, I grant you that, but it does work. It's slow because there is a process by which it gets every part of the clothes wet, despite how little water there is in the tub. Essentially within the wash cycle there are multiple agitation cycles separated by mixing cycles, in which the tub is spun at a low speed to mix the clothes around.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

Our top loader does a full load in under 20 min. Time is more precious to me than the price of water. I cannot see how barely making something damp can get something clean. Suppose I have a sweat soaked t-shirt. It's already damp. Is your 2 gallons of water from front loader magically going to substitute clean water for my sweat? Or rinse away the salt?

Someone said their front loader fills up 1/3 to 1/2 of the drum; I'd like to know the brand/model because all the one's I've looked at while shopping seem to brag about how little water they use (seeming less than an 1/8 of the drum).

Actuallyt it *is* less than 1/3 of the drum for modern machines, but it's enough for the clothes to slosh and splash around in.
This 'barely damp' nonsense is just wilful ignorance that has already been corrected several times in this thread. If the clothes were just getting 'barely damp', they wouldn't be washed. *Everyone* would be wearing dirty clothes. They're not.

[Fake Tales of San Francisco]

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

Suppose I have a sweat soaked t-shirt. It's already damp. Is your 2 gallons of water from front loader magically going to substitute clean water for my sweat? Or rinse away the salt?

Well no, but I don't think your top loader substitutes water for sweat either. It's not like water actively pushes the sweat out of the clothes. But if it did, where would it go? Does that mean your clothes swim around in sweaty water for 20 minutes? How does that make it clean?

Clearly it's rather easy to make nonsense criticisms for processes that clearly work.

The one thing that bothered me about having to use a toploader when I lived out of Europe for a while was how long it took to dry the clothes. Talk about a job and a half.

[Eliahna]

Originally Posted by enipla

I agree with this. We have a front loader and the clothes get completely soaked. Not just 'damp'

Agree. Not wetting the clothes is not one of the crimes my front loader commits. Dragging saturated sheets out the other week when it broke down mid cycle was no different to dragging saturated sheets out of my top loader in a similar situation. While it is washing, everything is as thoroughly wet as it would be in a top loader.

It does spin them harder so at the end of a wash cycle they come out with less water in them but that's a good thing because of the reduced drying time.

Also, it has a soak option.

[GreenTreeFrog]

Used both front loaders and top loaders (a few different brands) and have found that in some respects, top loaders do wash better... Especially when there is dog hair present. We have always had pets and I find that our front loader has trouble getting rid of it all. Seems to build up in the machine and I have to do an empty wash with hot water & vinegar just to "clean" it out. Not sure if a bit less dog hair is worth the cost of using a top loader though.

[Canadjun]

I'll add to the chorus - if one of the front loaders in the apartment building I live in decides it doesn't want to spin properly, the clothes come out WET, not damp!

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by Canadjun

I'll add to the chorus - if one of the front loaders in the apartment building I live in decides it doesn't want to spin properly, the clothes come out WET, not damp!

Indeed - and that's why they can't be opened mid cycle (apparently perceived as a flaw or shortcoming by some in this thread ). They can't be opened because the water would flood out

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Indeed - and that's why they can't be opened mid cycle (apparently perceived as a flaw or shortcoming by some in this thread ). They can't be opened because the water would flood out

Actually no. Don't get me wrong. Being a Brit we have always had front loaders and they work just fine but but the door lock is to prevent you sticking your arm into a moving drum. As Eliahna has found out you can open the door - after a delay - even when there is water in the drum.

[Mangetout]

That's interesting - it does make perfect sense as a safety interlock, but I'm not sure they all do release after a delay - or at least, I've encountered those that remained locked after being stopped mid cycle (haven't tried it lately/on a modern machine though)

[MarcusF]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

That's interesting - it does make perfect sense as a safety interlock, but I'm not sure they all do release after a delay - or at least, I've encountered those that remained locked after being stopped mid cycle (haven't tried it lately/on a modern machine though)

Um. Come to think of it it may be after turning off the power as well. Not sure how the interlock works...

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

Actually no. Don't get me wrong. Being a Brit we have always had front loaders and they work just fine but but the door lock is to prevent you sticking your arm into a moving drum. As Eliahna has found out you can open the door - after a delay - even when there is water in the drum.

My new top loader also has a safety interlock that locks the lid for the whole cycle. Even in the wash cycle it moves very fast during certain points. As I said above, it doesn't have a agitator so it alternates "agitating" cycles with "mixing" cycles during the wash cycle. It moves quite aggresively during the mixing cycle.

ETA: You can disable the interlock by pushing the "pause" button. This stops the machine and unlocks the door.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

Um. Come to think of it it may be after turning off the power as well. Not sure how the interlock works...

In any case, I think we're agreed that, should you contrive to open one mid-wash, it's wet floor time, therefore, the clothes inside are not just 'damp'.

[AaronX]

Do all front loaders adjust the water level automatically to suit the amount of laundry? My front loader didn't have a size setting, which I thought was quite important.

[Eliahna]

Originally Posted by AaronX

Do all front loaders adjust the water level automatically to suit the amount of laundry? My front loader didn't have a size setting, which I thought was quite important.

Mine does. The first 20 or 30 seconds after I push start, it shows the "weighing" icon as it sizes up the load. Then it starts filling.

[Mangetout]

Originally Posted by AaronX

Do all front loaders adjust the water level automatically to suit the amount of laundry? My front loader didn't have a size setting, which I thought was quite important.

Some have sensors (per post above), some rely on the user indicating the load size via set of buttons, or as part of the washing program selection.

[kambuckta]

One tip I heard (fairly) recently to help alleviate mildew problems in front loaders was to cut down the amount of washing powder to one-eighth of the recommended dose, and supplement this by adding two tablespoons of baking soda.

I wasn't quite game to try the 1/8th bit, but I use a quarter of a scoop now with the baking soda, and it cleans the clothes even better than before.

And whilst I don't really understand how the baking soda works, at the end of the spin cycle the clothes are even drier than with detergent alone: I guess this helps remove the dampness in the machine itself and thus deters mildew issues.

[psychonaut]

Originally Posted by MarcusF

Actually no. Don't get me wrong. Being a Brit we have always had front loaders and they work just fine but but the door lock is to prevent you sticking your arm into a moving drum. As Eliahna has found out you can open the door - after a delay - even when there is water in the drum.

Yeah, but there's rarely any reason for doing so. Every front-loader I've used has a button for draining the water in case it's been stopped mid-cycle.

[BwanaBob]

Obviously the whole of Europe doesn't have stinky clothes.

My suspicions are rooted in our horrible experience with a low-water top loader. First off, it's largest recommened load was about 1/2 of what I consider a full load. So that's now doubling the number of loads needed. Then there's the abysmal slowness of a full cycle, also 2 - 3x what a standard top loader takes. Now we're talking 4 to 6x the time I need to get all the clothes done. My dryer runs very hot so we rarely have to wait very long for the dryer to finish before we can put in the next load. Also we sometimes use (gasp) a clothes line for towels because we like the feel and smell they get from the sun.

Water is dirt cheap here. Average water bill is $50/month. Average electrical $165/month.

So why would I want to switch to a low-water front loader?

[Great Antibob]

Originally Posted by kambuckta

One tip I heard (fairly) recently to help alleviate mildew problems in front loaders was to cut down the amount of washing powder to one-eighth of the recommended dose, and supplement this by adding two tablespoons of baking soda.

Part of the reasoning behind this recommendation is, as I noted above, that people usually use too much washing powder normally. Using a smaller amount later for a cycle will suck some of the residue out. The baking soda will, of course, help with the odor.

Too much detergent can have a deleterious effect on cleaning clothes.

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

My suspicions are rooted in our horrible experience with a low-water top loader. First off, it's largest recommened load was about 1/2 of what I consider a full load. So that's now doubling the number of loads needed.

Well, odds are actually you're probably also overloading the top loader. As I noted earlier, most people don't use their washers according to the directions anyway.

Overloading your front loader will have the same effect as overloading your top loader - your clothes will get cleaner but you may not get the best results. It's hardly the front loader's fault if you scrupulously follow the directions for it while ignoring optimal use of your top loader. Also, have you checked that the capacities for both were the same? If you're comparing a 3 cubic foot front loader with a 4 cubic foot top loader, that's also a bad comparison.

Other than using too much detergent, another thing to note is that in the US, except for clothes used in physically demanding situations, most people's clothes are already pretty darned clean (even those stinky towels aren't really all that fouled up). So, overloading a washer still does a reasonable job, which I'm 80% sure is the case with your top loader.

Originally Posted by BwanaBob

So why would I want to switch to a low-water front loader?

To each his own. It still uses less water and electricity. They're still more efficient and effective.

If that's not a sufficient reason, then don't use them. We're not forcing you to.

Just don't spout BS about front loaders, such as the idea they barely get clothes damp. A preference for top loaders is no reason to make stuff up that just aren't true.

[PattiCake]

Weighing in on the things said in this thread.

I just read a very detailed account of how the HE washers and the HE detergents work. If you are not using HE detergent, your HE washer will not clean effectively. Why? Because the HE washer will create more suds than one that fills with water. Too many suds will keep the wash from tumbling properly by cushioning the wash and not allowing it to drop into the water and wet clothes. Also, I've noticed people saying you use less soap. Read the directions on your HE detergent bottle. You still need to fill the cup to the correct line. I use Tide, and the line is the same place as the old non HE bottle cap. This could be a reason why your clothes do not seem to be clean.

Why does the load take longer? A few reasons: 1. it takes time for the washer to determine how much water to add. It adds some, tumbles, measures, adds more, tumbles, measures, etc. until the washer has the exact right amount of water to clean your clothes. 2. an old top loader (non HE) doesn't take long because once the water is dirty, you aren't doing anything to clean the clothes any better in 20 minutes than if you let it go 30 or 40 minutes. Agitating your clothes in dirty water is just simply agitating your clothes in dirty water. Plus, since agitating with a center spindle is hard on your clothes, washing them longer is just simply wearing them out.

So, what is the difference between your clothes agitating in dirty water or tumbled in dirty water with an HE? answer: HE detergents are designed to hold dirt and oils instead of allowing them to get deposited back onto your clothes. Also, the HE washers use multiple rinse cycles. On my old top loader, I used the only cycle that gave me 2 rinse cycles, and there was still soap left in my clothes when it was done.

My personal experiences: Towels - I can now do 2 loads of towels in my washer instead of one. I could force 2 loads in before, but because of the design of the drum, the towels were being forced to the top of the washer, and rubbing against the top edge of the drum. I had a bed spread ruined because of this. It came out torn up. I have far less lint in my dryer now because my clothes aren't getting beat up. Doing 2 loads of towels at the same time decreases my overall time spent doing laundry, despite the actual load being completed in more time.

My husband had complained that the towels coming out of the old washer smelled musty. The whole washer smelled musty, and the rinse water was enough to gag you - it permeated the entire downstairs. Now, no smells, and my washer has a self-clean cycle that doesn't require any additives including bleach. The towels are softer since there is no build up of soap residue, and they smell clean instead of musty.

I have a quick wash cycle that does a load in 30 minutes. I'm not sure about these 20 minute loads people are talking about with their top loaders, since my top loader took 30 minutes minimum. And, it constantly became unbalanced. So far, my new Samsung has not become unbalanced at all.

Now, my old pair was over 25 years old. We bought a matching set of the Samsung steam machines. Not sure how often I'll use the steam wash, but the steam in the dryer is wonderful for freshening up something that doesn't need to be washed.

One more thing before I get off my soapbox - people talk about the water savings, and the electric savings of the shorter dryer cycle, but another consideration is hot water. I have oil heated hot water. Oil is very expensive any more. Having to heat less water means a huge savings in my oil bill. So, water, oil, electric - all will be cheaper.

Technology has certainly improved in the last 25 years. These new washers and dryers are great. It takes longer? That doesn't bother me. I put my laundry in and set the washer. It tells me when it's done, and I put it in the dryer. I typically don't do all my wash in one day anyway. If you do, well, I can see where you might be a bit irked. But really - 4 loads of wash might take the washer a total of an hour or so longer depending on the cycles you choose, but I would always have to wait for the dryer to stop before I could get the next load in anyway. My dryer typically took an hour to dry a load of jeans or towels. Now, If I do multiple loads, I can have the dryer finish the previous load, and have enough time to fold it before the next load is ready for the dryer. I like that better than having to wait for the dryer while the wash sits in the washer.

Oh, and I do love the little song they play instead of that buzzer that makes me jump out of my skin!

Sorry this was so long, but there was a lot to comment on!