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Old 09-21-2019, 02:42 PM
ftg's Avatar
ftg is offline
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Here's one that got to me today. From a story on Slashdot.

A developer pulled a Ruby library when he found out that one company was using it in a product they sold to ICE.

So, yay, I wouldn't want my software used by those ... people either. But.

Boo, if you're doing Open Source-type stuff you don't have a say over who gets to use it. If your code is being used by Neo-Nazis, so be it.

The author's action, to just kill the whole thing, is extreme but probably better than trying to thread a needle with a rope.
Old 09-21-2019, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Interesting. I was not aware. I'll have to look into how they define their terms and enforce it.

But I'm pretty sure IL/Chi does not have such a law. If they did, I'm pretty sure I'd be aware.

Reminds me of an incident - almost 30 yrs ago - that really drove home to me how much I value free speech rights. I was minding my own business on a nice sunny day, walking to the commuter train with all the other lemmings. Along a downtown street (Randoph, just E of Wacker) those anti-abortion assholes had their posters of (purported) aborted fetuses, with their small children passing out literature. I fel assaulted. And my first reaction was anger. I wanted to kick over the posters, and maybe even confront the idiots. But instead, something in me made me think that if their offensive speech was so powerful that it incited such a strong reaction in me, that confirmed my belief that speech ought be abridged as little as possible.

Just my reaction and values - not necessarily anyone else's.

On edit - wow - I really didn't think my advocacy of minimal constraints on speech would qualify me as an outlier around these parts.
Even though the original topic of Antiabortionists in this post works just fine for me as well, really the thing that gets me ticking is flag burning(which I don't like)I did not spend all those years in the military serving this country just so some yonk can tell me or anyone how we can or cannot voice displeasure or protest our government. I support flag burning.
"The Wonka will show you the true nature of the chocolate, He is your master now."
Darth Desserticola, Sith Hare
Old 09-21-2019, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CelticKnot View Post
Is everyone you disagree with a con man, or do you reserve that only for Evangelicals?
Cute. Why would you pretend to not know what a con man is, and that in your face proselytizing religious jackasses fit the description? You trynna pull one over on me?
Old 09-23-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Not to derail the thread, but do they slap mosquitoes?

Use antibiotics to kill off bacterial infections? Chemotherapy to kill cancer cells?

Not being snarky, genuinely inquiring.
The book was written in the 70s by a Westerner who was one of the first to go to Nepal to study Buddhism. He didn't specify any other quandaries. At the time, they were trying to deal with China's impending annexation, so they had bigger fish to fry.

Offhand, I'd guess Nepal's high elevation is not conducive to mosquitoes. Plus, the monks were largely insular and rarely commingled with the outside world, so they probably didn't dwell in populous germ-infested environments that much. You have to remember, they live entirely within their worship and farm for themselves, something few Westerners were willing to do.
Old 09-24-2019, 02:38 AM
Melbourne is offline
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Originally Posted by Dinsdale View Post
Wheaton College is a very religious college 20-some miles west of Chicago. Founded by or strongly associated w/ Billy Graham. The town of Wheaton was dry until a couple of decades ago, and if you walk in their downtown, you are liable to be accosted by young people asking if you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior.
Hey! Wheaton was founded by Mary Lyon, a pioneer in women's education, a feminist, and a liberal rather to the left of almost everybody. After whom my mother is named.

The connection with Billy Graham is that his wife went there. Before they were married.
Old 09-24-2019, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Melbourne View Post
The connection with Billy Graham is that his wife went there. Before they were married.
You serious? The college is mistaken in representing BG as their most famous alum?

And that big-ass Billy Graham Center smack dab in the middle of campus is - um - just a memorial to his wife's time at her alma mater?

The BGC opened in 1980 through the collaboration of Wheaton College and the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Rev. Billy Graham sought to develop a center for strategic planning, inspiration, and preparation of leaders to fuel the evangelism mission of the Church in the world.
I have no reason to discount what you say about the college's founders. And I retract my alternative supposition that BG founded OR was strongly associate with the college. But you are ENTIRELY off base if you suggest that for the past 40-50 years at least (as long as I've been aware of and lived near it) it has been just about as hardcore evangelical Christian as a college can get.
I used to be disgusted.
Now I try to be amused.
Old 09-24-2019, 08:27 AM
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The residents of Chicago have the right to designate what is and isn't appropriate usage of their public spaces. Maybe that's a "keep of the grass" sign or "no bicycles allowed" in certain areas of a park. The purpose of which is to maintain orderly and effective usage of the assets that they have dedicated for this use.

The Bean is a tourist attraction. Effective use of this important space means both managing traffic and ensuring that the tourists (and the money they bring into the town) have an opportunity to enjoy the Bean when they visit. If tourists (and residents) can't enjoy this particular piece of art, if visiting the Bean is a shitty experience, what's the fucking point of having it in the first place?

The thing about free speech is that nobody should be forced to give you a soapbox to speak from. An inability to use the most convenient avenue for one's speech shouldn't be considered a restriction on your speech, when many many other avenues are available.
Old 09-24-2019, 12:40 PM
MaxTheVool is offline
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I like to think of myself as a strong advocate for free speech. But what's always struck me as the important distinction is that restrictions should never be based on the CONTENT of the speech. That's very different from restrictions being based on the METHOD of the speech.

A law which prohibits 150 decibel megaphoned arguments in a residential area at 2 a.m.? Totally reasonable.
A law which prohibits criticizing the mayor, put allows criticizing his opponents? Obviously a violation of free speech.

Now, obviously, it's not always quite that cut and dried... a law making it illegal to protest out side abortion clinics, for instance, much as I might want to support such a law on some level, is obviously going to have a disproportionate effect on those speaking on one side of that particular issue. Which makes it tricky. So for instance this Chicago law might be troubling if for decades there had been a tradition of Buddhists hanging around espousing Buddhism, and then Christians start doing the same thing, and then suddenly, oh, whoops, better make it illegal; then that would be a red flag. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
This post is merely corroborative detail, intended to add artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative


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