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  #2551  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:39 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
People who are pushing the Russia (boo!) angle apparently view Russian marketing abilities as supernatural. $100K (ok, at most $1M) ad buys managing to sway a $1.8B campaign. That's amazingly efficient. US political consultants really need to learn their lessons, shouldn't they?
Remember, the Russians had a lot of help from the Trump campaign about who to target with those ads.
  #2552  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:47 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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But did they know they were helping the Russians? A pro-Trump PAC looking for such demographic info going to get carefully vetted and scrutinized? Why would they? Even if they did know, how hard would it be to set it up with oodles of plausible deniability?

Last edited by elucidator; 10-10-2017 at 04:48 PM.
  #2553  
Old 10-10-2017, 04:51 PM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Remember, the Russians had a lot of help from the Trump campaign about who to target with those ads.
First of all, you have no idea that's true other than your fantasies, but let's say it is.

So - Trump campaign tells Russians how to target their $1M and it has a huge effect, right? But the same Trump campaign has $hundreds of millions on hand, and did not use their super-targeting to spend that enormous sum just as efficiently?
  #2554  
Old 10-10-2017, 05:01 PM
Lance Turbo Lance Turbo is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Even if the Trump campaign didn't use social media at all, $250m is still more than $10m by 25 times.
One part in twenty-five is 4%. In many races a 4% boost in advertising doesn't mean much, but in an extremely close race a 4% boost can change the outcome. However, I don't want to imply any exactness to that 4% number up there.

The point is, it was an extremely close race. Trump needed a lot of things that could have gone either way (e.g. midwest turnout) to go his way, and most or all of them did. Anything that contributed to that happening (e.g. Russian interference in the campaign) didn't need to have huge effect to tip the scales one way or the other.
  #2555  
Old 10-10-2017, 05:39 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Remember, the Russians had a lot of help from the Trump campaign about who to target with those ads.
Cite?

As far as I'm aware, this is only speculated so far.
  #2556  
Old 10-10-2017, 05:48 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
10x of $1m is $10m. The Trump campaign spent $250m and (one presumes) a lot of it went into Facebook and Google, so they were getting the same 10x multiplier. So if the argument is that somehow Russia's $1m advertising investment was more significant than Trump's $250m investment, that just don't fly. Even if the Trump campaign didn't use social media at all, $250m is still more than $10m by 25 times.
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
People who are pushing the Russia (boo!) angle apparently view Russian marketing abilities as supernatural. $100K (ok, at most $1M) ad buys managing to sway a $1.8B campaign. That's amazingly efficient. US political consultants really need to learn their lessons, shouldn't they?
You might have a point if a single $1million ad buy was all they did.

They also posted fake stories, sometimes using ad money to promote them, but often just letting them go viral on their own.

They paid people to go to social media sites and start and control narratives from there.

They were not supernatural at all. We just had a population that was primed for being manipulated by negative and deceptive advertising, along with creating a leverage system that we didn't really understand.

As I said to a friend the other day, "We spent billions of dollars building and running the VOA stations throughout the cold war to put propaganda into the Soviet's backyard. Then we spent billions of dollars building the internet, letting them return the favor for free."
  #2557  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:15 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
First of all, you have no idea that's true other than your fantasies, but let's say it is.

So - Trump campaign tells Russians how to target their $1M and it has a huge effect, right? But the same Trump campaign has $hundreds of millions on hand, and did not use their super-targeting to spend that enormous sum just as efficiently?
Yeah, I mean, Watergate was no big deal because it cost even less.

I'd love to see the rundown within this thread of goal posts moving from there was absolutely no interaction between Trump and Russia ever in history into there was a little collusion, but it was efficiently priced, so it doesn't count.

Last edited by Fiveyearlurker; 10-10-2017 at 06:15 PM.
  #2558  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:21 PM
Okrahoma Okrahoma is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Yeah, I mean, Watergate was no big deal because it cost even less.

I'd love to see the rundown within this thread of goal posts moving from there was absolutely no interaction between Trump and Russia ever in history into there was a little collusion, but it was efficiently priced, so it doesn't count.
There are no goal posts moving, it was a theoretical for the sake of the argument, there is absolutely no evidence of any collusion, it is all in the realm of fantasy.

But it is fun to see liberals claim that Russians are evil marketing geniuses, supported by Trump campaign's amazing (and genius, too) targeting machine, running circles around hapless Democrats who spent three times the money Trump did (and more than a thousand times the money Russians supposedly did). Oh and of course Trump is dumb as a rock, and so are most of the people who work for him. The cognitive dissonance is just hilarious.
  #2559  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:29 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Oh and of course Trump is dumb as a rock, and so are most of the people who work for him. The cognitive dissonance is just hilarious.
Nobody here claimed that the people around Trump are dumb.
  #2560  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:31 PM
Sherrerd Sherrerd is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Facebook isn't a news organization. They allow people to find news, but it's still the media that creates it.
I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly--you're saying that you believe that most news items on Facebook are created by the mainstream media??
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  #2561  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:50 PM
PatriotX PatriotX is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
There are no goal posts moving, it was a theoretical for the sake of the argument, there is absolutely no evidence of any collusion, it is all in the realm of fantasy.

But it is fun to see liberals claim that Russians are evil marketing geniuses, supported by Trump campaign's amazing (and genius, too) targeting machine, running circles around hapless Democrats who spent three times the money Trump did (and more than a thousand times the money Russians supposedly did). Oh and of course Trump is dumb as a rock, and so are most of the people who work for him. The cognitive dissonance is just hilarious.
Do we have a number for how much money was spent on click farm and false content creation?

Seems the spending on Facebook etc is just a piece of it.
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  #2562  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:57 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by Sherrerd View Post
I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly--you're saying that you believe that most news items on Facebook are created by the mainstream media??
They are not, in the majority, created by Russia. Republicans generate more nonsense on their own than Russia does.
  #2563  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:58 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
You might have a point if a single $1million ad buy was all they did.

They also posted fake stories, sometimes using ad money to promote them, but often just letting them go viral on their own.

They paid people to go to social media sites and start and control narratives from there.

They were not supernatural at all. We just had a population that was primed for being manipulated by negative and deceptive advertising, along with creating a leverage system that we didn't really understand.

As I said to a friend the other day, "We spent billions of dollars building and running the VOA stations throughout the cold war to put propaganda into the Soviet's backyard. Then we spent billions of dollars building the internet, letting them return the favor for free."
And your argument is that neither Trump's campaign nor the Republican party, nor the Republican base, nor the Republican media are doing these things?
  #2564  
Old 10-10-2017, 08:10 PM
Lance Turbo Lance Turbo is offline
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They are not, in the majority, created by Russia. Republicans generate more nonsense on their own than Russia does.
I think you're underestimating the scale of the operation. Between ad buys, troll farms, twitter bots, etc. they made it so that more than half of the news shared on social media in swing states was fake news.

Quote:
(1) nationally, Twitter users got more misinformation, polarizing and conspiratorial content than professionally produced news. (2) Users in some states, however, shared more polarizing political news and information than users in other states. (3) Average levels of misinformation were higher in swing states than in uncontested states, even when weighted for the relative size of the user population in each state.
Link
  #2565  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:14 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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...But it is fun to see liberals claim that Russians are evil marketing geniuses....
Maybe they didn't know how well it would work. Maybe they just got lucky. The actual effectiveness of propaganda spread by social media and the like is terror incognita, so I'm afraid I don't know. But does anyone else? How much difference would it make if you got a nugget of political poison from a "news source", compared to shared by someone you already know and trust?

I, myself, as I've said, was the "target" of many "news releases" fanning the flames of the Bernie/Hillary dispute. It appears that is because I am a lefty, and my friends are lefty, and you can tell by what I click on what I care about. Now it looks like another person would see stuff about how Hillary and Bernie both are conspiring to bring in Mexicans, Muslims and bears, oh my! Somebody else sees how BLM wants white teenagers for reparations, how Hillary wants the Koran and free condoms in middle schools.

Print media and tv ads are wounded animals crawling away to die. This is a grave new world, and we don't really know how this shit works yet. Me, I'm of the opinion that we better find out. It may be more important to know how it was done rather than who exactly did it.
  #2566  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:04 PM
Superdude Superdude is offline
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ROTFLMAO. Fantasies. The left's sustenance.
Ah, denial. The right's sustenance.
  #2567  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:46 AM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by Lance Turbo View Post
I think you're underestimating the scale of the operation. Between ad buys, troll farms, twitter bots, etc. they made it so that more than half of the news shared on social media in swing states was fake news.



Link
Your cite puts Russian and Wikileaks content as 22% of the 20% of content that was "Polarizing and Conspiracy Content". That would be 4.4% of the total, overall.
  #2568  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:20 AM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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And your argument is that neither Trump's campaign nor the Republican party, nor the Republican base, nor the Republican media are doing these things?
That would be an extremely poor summation of my argument.

So, your argument is that Trump and the Republican party were paying facebook to put out false news stories and offensive and divisive memes?

You don't even comprehend how having a different party altogether to put out lies and hate speech benefits them? That they get deniability of these posts and stories that are influencing voters, because it was not in fact the Trump campaign or republican party putting these out?

Tell you what, I saw quite a bit of racist, homophobic, and anti-islam ads during the campaign on my facebook, and I don't even really do much with facebook. If you can show me that the republican party was officially putting out ads like this, this, or this, (just as some quick examples that were quite easy to find) then you can claim that the russians weren't doing anything that the republicans weren't doing.
  #2569  
Old 10-11-2017, 09:57 AM
Lance Turbo Lance Turbo is offline
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Your cite puts Russian and Wikileaks content as 22% of the 20% of content that was "Polarizing and Conspiracy Content". That would be 4.4% of the total, overall.
Exactly.

A wise man once said, "In many races a 4% boost in advertising doesn't mean much, but in an extremely close race a 4% boost can change the outcome."

That wise man was me earlier in this thread.
  #2570  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:48 AM
JohnT JohnT is offline
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So, Carter Page, Mr. "I can't wait to testify so I can clear my name" will now take the 5th in his Committee testimony.
  #2571  
Old 10-11-2017, 12:18 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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When do we get to find out how deep Pence was into it so we know who the next President is?
  #2572  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:05 PM
Anny Middon Anny Middon is offline
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Originally Posted by kenobi 65 View Post
My understanding is that the tape doesn't show Trump urinating. Allegedly, it shows Russian prostitutes, which Trump had hired, urinating on a hotel bed that had once been slept in by the Obamas.
That's my understanding, too.

Presumably the tape has audio as well as video. If the audio has Trump moaning, "Oh, yes, yes... Pee on the bed that n----r president slept in" then I think the Deplorables would cheer. If they had a bazillion dollars, they'd want to do that.

OTOH, if the audio has Trump moaning, "Oh, yes, yes... Pee some more. That yellow stream is so exciting. I love the way the pee flows down your legs. That's soooo sexy" accompanied by the sound of him obviously jerking off -- well, I dunno. Even some of the Deplorables might find that disturbing.
  #2573  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:06 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Paul Ryan was aware of the collusion, we already know that. Can't imagine it somehow skipped over Pence.
  #2574  
Old 10-11-2017, 01:44 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Get ready for the Orrin Hatch Administration, folks!
  #2575  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:19 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Get ready for the Orrin Hatch Administration, folks!
I dunno, at 83 years old, he might be one of the one's being discussed in this article this morning!

" Mike Kim, the reserved pharmacist-turned-owner of the pharmacy, said he has gotten used to knowing the most sensitive details about some of the most famous people in Washington.

“At first it’s cool, and then you realize, I’m filling some drugs that are for some pretty serious health problems as well. And these are the people that are running the country,” Kim said, listing treatments for conditions like diabetes and Alzheimer’s.

“It makes you kind of sit back and say, ‘Wow, they’re making the highest laws of the land and they might not even remember what happened yesterday.'”
  #2576  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:22 PM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Pence was Paul Manafort's suggested VP.

We also know he lied about being in the dark wrt Flynn's lies.

If Trump is taken down, I don't think either of those is a big enough stone to sink Pence too.
  #2577  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:41 PM
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
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When do we get to find out how deep Pence was into it so we know who the next President is?
I doubt he's going to be implicated much (if at all) in the Russian hacking part of the investigation, but he's already committed obstruction and likely broke a few other laws.

Pence claimed in March 2017 that he had "only just learned" about Mike Flynn's lobbying activities for Turkish interests during the campaign and beyond.

But we know that's not true. Pence received and subsequently publicly acknowledged receipt of a letter sent to him by Elijah Cummings on November 18, 2016, specifically warning Pence and the transition team of Flynn's ongoing lobbying activities with Turkey. House Oversight Committee Letter to Flynn Warning of Flynn Conflicts of Interest

In late November 2016, Flynn told senior Trump transition national security members -- of which Pence was the chairman -- that he has scheduled a meeting with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. Then on December 29th, the same day as Obama announces sanctions against Russia in retaliation for their interference in the US election, Flynn calls Kislyak 5 times.

Interestingly, on December 30, 2016, Putin announces that Russia will do nothing to retaliate against the sanctions imposed by Obama.

Nevertheless, on January 15, 2017, Pence appears on Face the Nation and with a straight face, says that Flynn’s calls to the Russian ambassador on the same day President Obama announced new sanctions was “strictly coincidental.”

Also on January 15, 2017, Pence appears on Fox News Sunday and denies contacts between Russia and the Trump campaign. Responding to Chris Wallace, Pence says, “All the contact by the Trump campaign and associates were with the American people.”

All this is before Trump and Pence are even inaugurated, and thus if true, illegal to negotiate with a foreign government.

Later, in mid-February 2017, Flynn says he "can't remember" if he spoke to Kislyak about Russian sanctions or not.

On January 4, 2017, Flynn advises transition team chief counsel Don McGahn that he is under federal investigation for his lobbying activities on behalf of Turkey. Kind of defies credibility that McGahn would fail to mention this to the chairman of the Trump transition team, Mike Pence.

Similarly, in January 26, 2017, Sally Yates, acting AG at DOJ, warned Don McGahn that, based on recent public statements of White House officials including Vice President Mike Pence, Flynn had "lied" to Pence and others about his late-December conversations with Russian Ambassador Kislyak. According to Sean Spicer, Trump and a small group of White House advisers were “immediately informed of the situation.” Given the information we know about what Flynn shared with the transition team -- of which Pence was the chairman -- in late November 2016 (see above), it seems that for once, Sean Spicer was telling the truth.

Moving forward, Pence was yet again caught in a lie about the motivation for Trump's firing of James Comey.

On May 8, 2017, Trump meets with senior White House officials, including Don McGahn and Pence. They work out their talking points about the official version of why Trump is firing Comey.

On May 10, 2017, Pence repeatedly says on the record that Comey’s firing occurred because Sessions and Rosenstein recommended it. This was a lie and Pence knew it, based on his attendance at the meeting on May 8th.

Of course, Trump himself made this painfully clear in his interview with NBC's Lester Holt on May 11, 2017, when he stated unequivocally that he fired Comey because of "the Russia thing." Oops.

Pence used to deny he ever spoke to Russians. Now he is mum on the subject.

I think Pence is vulnerable to obstruction charges, as well as conspiring to act with a foreign government against US interests, if his actions -- or knowing inactions -- had anything to do with promises to Russia prior to assuming office that Obama sanctions would be lifted. That's a pretty big deal.
  #2578  
Old 10-11-2017, 02:52 PM
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
Your cite puts Russian and Wikileaks content as 22% of the 20% of content that was "Polarizing and Conspiracy Content". That would be 4.4% of the total, overall.
You're aware that they also instigated protests around the country, such as the anti-Muslim march in Twin Falls, Idaho? Russia Orchestrated Anti-Immigrant Rallies in the US Via Facebook (Fortune)

They also pushed Trump rallies in 17 US cities, including in New York, Pennsylvania and Florida. Russian Facebook Trump Rallies (Fortune)

Maybe you heard of some of those. I know I did.
  #2579  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:37 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Trump is missing the deadlines for the Russian sanctions, for some reason.
  #2580  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:04 PM
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Trump is missing the deadlines for the Russian sanctions, for some reason.
I'm shocked!! Are you?

Hmmmm...

Eric Swalwell of the House Intelligence Committee just said in an interview on MSNBC that Cambridge Analytica is under (flaming liberal) Mueller's microscope and that the investigation in this direction is proving "fruitful."

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-11-2017 at 07:05 PM.
  #2581  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:37 PM
Sage Rat Sage Rat is offline
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Originally Posted by Aspenglow View Post
You're aware that they also instigated protests around the country, such as the anti-Muslim march in Twin Falls, Idaho? Russia Orchestrated Anti-Immigrant Rallies in the US Via Facebook (Fortune)

They also pushed Trump rallies in 17 US cities, including in New York, Pennsylvania and Florida. Russian Facebook Trump Rallies (Fortune)

Maybe you heard of some of those. I know I did.
That has nothing to do with my point. I've never said anything except that the Russians interfered, that their actions had results, and that this should be stopped.

The world is not 100% for you or 100% against you. If I say that you're analyzing the data wrong, that doesn't mean that the reverse of everything you think and believe is correct. It just means that you're some percentage off from correct (as I see it). I can be on your side and still say that you're wrong.
  #2582  
Old 10-11-2017, 07:57 PM
Aspenglow Aspenglow is offline
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Originally Posted by Sage Rat View Post
That has nothing to do with my point. I've never said anything except that the Russians interfered, that their actions had results, and that this should be stopped.

The world is not 100% for you or 100% against you. If I say that you're analyzing the data wrong, that doesn't mean that the reverse of everything you think and believe is correct. It just means that you're some percentage off from correct (as I see it). I can be on your side and still say that you're wrong.
Where did you see me say anything different? I have no idea why you personalized this. I didn't. I do think you tend to minimize the extent of the Russian involvement -- and result -- via Facebook.

ETA: I wasn't being snarky, just sharing information I thought you might not have. I'm sorry if you took it otherwise.

Last edited by Aspenglow; 10-11-2017 at 07:59 PM.
  #2583  
Old 10-11-2017, 10:00 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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An anti-Muslim protest in Idaho, you say? Geez, that poor guy!
  #2584  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:43 AM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Trump may be offering to talk to Mueller directly. I'm sure that with his propensity for truth telling that this would go well for him. Or he's already been subpoenaed to talk, and is making it look like he is volunteering like his son did.
  #2585  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:14 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Originally Posted by Okrahoma View Post
People who are pushing the Russia (boo!) angle apparently view Russian marketing abilities as supernatural. $100K (ok, at most $1M) ad buys managing to sway a $1.8B campaign. That's amazingly efficient. US political consultants really need to learn their lessons, shouldn't they?
I think we all got blindsided by how effective Facebook memes are in setting public opinion. I'm often amazed by the utter ignorance being passed off as fact and people getting totally outraged by things that aren't even true. Did you know that Congress stole $2.1 trillion for Social Security? Of course not. Social Security surpluses were invested in T-bills and will cash them in like any other investor. But thanks to Facebook, thousands of voters think that Nancy Pelosi stole their retirement from them. Multiply this by all the phony outrageous lies that are out there, target them to the most susceptible audiences in key states, and you can (and did) steal the White House.
  #2586  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:58 AM
Chisquirrel Chisquirrel is offline
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I think we all got blindsided by how effective Facebook memes are in setting public opinion. I'm often amazed by the utter ignorance being passed off as fact and people getting totally outraged by things that aren't even true. Did you know that Congress stole $2.1 trillion for Social Security? Of course not. Social Security surpluses were invested in T-bills and will cash them in like any other investor. But thanks to Facebook, thousands of voters think that Nancy Pelosi stole their retirement from them. Multiply this by all the phony outrageous lies that are out there, target them to the most susceptible audiences in key states, and you can (and did) steal the White House.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."
  #2587  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:41 PM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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Trump may be offering to talk to Mueller directly. I'm sure that with his propensity for truth telling that this would go well for him. Or he's already been subpoenaed to talk, and is making it look like he is volunteering like his son did.
How much you want to bet that he's going to tell Mueller that Trump's a good guy and he hopes Mueller can let it go?
  #2588  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:16 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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Just look at Mueller, and you can see at once that appeals to his compassion and sympathy will totally work!
  #2589  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:18 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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Just have a few 4chan memes ready to show him. Break the ice, get him cracking up.
  #2590  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:21 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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If you're wondering why Trump has been attacking NBC lately, it's probably because they were about to report this.

"Paul Manafort, a former campaign manager for President Donald Trump, has much stronger financial ties to a Russian oligarch than have been previously reported.

An NBC News investigation reveals that $26 million changed hands in the form of a loan between a company linked to Manafort and the oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, a billionaire with close ties to the Kremlin.

The loan brings the total of their known business dealings to around $60 million over the past decade, according to financial documents filed in Cyprus and the Cayman Islands."
  #2591  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:26 PM
asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
If you're wondering why Trump has been attacking NBC lately, it's probably because they were about to report this.

"Paul Manafort, a former campaign manager for President Donald Trump, has much stronger financial ties to a Russian oligarch than have been previously reported.

An NBC News investigation reveals that $26 million changed hands in the form of a loan between a company linked to Manafort and the oligarch, Oleg Deripaska, a billionaire with close ties to the Kremlin.

The loan brings the total of their known business dealings to around $60 million over the past decade, according to financial documents filed in Cyprus and the Cayman Islands."
He's attacking NBC because he's in a personal fued with Joe and Mika. Beyond that, though, he's at war with the media. He wants to shut them up because he wishes he had dictatorial powers.
  #2592  
Old 10-14-2017, 10:15 AM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
He's attacking NBC because he's in a personal fued with Joe and Mika. Beyond that, though, he's at war with the media. He wants to shut them up because he wishes he had dictatorial powers.
Regardless, anyone want to bet that this guy is not exactly up to the task of thwarting an investigation?
  #2593  
Old 10-14-2017, 04:57 PM
asahi asahi is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Regardless, anyone want to bet that this guy is not exactly up to the task of thwarting an investigation?
Manafort and Flynn are probably in some trouble, though Trump might reward them with pardons - who knows?

What I am increasingly concerned about is that this investigation could lead to a constitutional crisis the likes of which this country has never seen. Mueller could put evidence before the Congress and the people implicating Trump and his business empire, and I'm not sure what effect it would have. I just don't see tens of millions of people who voted for Trump sitting quietly while congress tries to remove him. The Bannon and Trump wing of the country is probably 25-35% of the active electorate, but that's enough to create political chaos, and from that chaos could emerge a political monster.
  #2594  
Old 10-15-2017, 02:42 AM
Kolak of Twilo Kolak of Twilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
Manafort and Flynn are probably in some trouble, though Trump might reward them with pardons - who knows?

What I am increasingly concerned about is that this investigation could lead to a constitutional crisis the likes of which this country has never seen. Mueller could put evidence before the Congress and the people implicating Trump and his business empire, and I'm not sure what effect it would have. I just don't see tens of millions of people who voted for Trump sitting quietly while congress tries to remove him. The Bannon and Trump wing of the country is probably 25-35% of the active electorate, but that's enough to create political chaos, and from that chaos could emerge a political monster.
It doesn't matter what is in Mueller's report, congress will never try to remove Trump. Period.

And it's a bit late worrying about political monsters. There's one already sitting in the Oval Office. Chances are he is going to stay there as long as he wants.
  #2595  
Old 10-15-2017, 11:24 AM
E-DUB E-DUB is offline
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I've wondered if that was the plan all along.
  #2596  
Old 10-17-2017, 06:39 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Spicer met with Mueller yesterday:

President Donald Trump’s former press secretary Sean Spicer met with special counsel Robert Mueller's team on Monday for an interview that lasted much of the day, according to multiple people familiar with the meeting.

During his sitdown, Spicer was grilled about the firing of former FBI director James Comey and his statements regarding the firing, as well as about Trump’s meetings with Russians officials including one with Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in the Oval Office, one person familiar with the meeting said.


Notably, this is the same Spicer who "documented everything" and "filled notebook after notebook".
  #2597  
Old 10-17-2017, 07:48 PM
Vinyl Turnip Vinyl Turnip is offline
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I’m not sure how hundreds of pages of “DON + SEAN” encircled by pink hearts is going to help forward the investigation, but that’s up to the experts.
  #2598  
Old 10-17-2017, 09:54 PM
Euphonious Polemic Euphonious Polemic is offline
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Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
I think we all got blindsided by how effective Facebook memes are in setting public opinion. I'm often amazed by the utter ignorance being passed off as fact and people getting totally outraged by things that aren't even true. Did you know that Congress stole $2.1 trillion for Social Security? Of course not. Social Security surpluses were invested in T-bills and will cash them in like any other investor. But thanks to Facebook, thousands of voters think that Nancy Pelosi stole their retirement from them. Multiply this by all the phony outrageous lies that are out there, target them to the most susceptible audiences in key states, and you can (and did) steal the White House.
Did you know that GW Bush and Obama never ever once called or communicated with the families of fallen military service members? President Trump said that, so it must be true.

There is no lie big enough that the Trump sheeple will not believe it. A certain percentage of people are gullible, easily led morons, and Trump is cashing in big-time on this fact.
  #2599  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:26 PM
Bayard Bayard is offline
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Originally Posted by Euphonious Polemic View Post
Did you know that GW Bush and Obama never ever once called or communicated with the families of fallen military service members? President Trump said that, so it must be true.

There is no lie big enough that the Trump sheeple will not believe it. A certain percentage of people are gullible, easily led morons, and Trump is cashing in big-time on this fact.
Is it possible that the Trump administration will finally kill that stupid notion that Republicans respect the troops more than Democrats? It kind of has to, right? Right? Please? ... ::sob::
  #2600  
Old 10-18-2017, 09:25 PM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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James Comey's secret twitter account tweeted for the first time in a long time. As usual, the internet is reading into it.
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