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  #12201  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:15 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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The Director of the National Background Investigations Bureau told members of Congress that he has never seen so many "mistakes" as in Jared Kushner's multiple security clearance request attempts.
http://www.talkmedianews.com/feature...learance-form/
  #12202  
Old 10-11-2017, 11:37 PM
The Tooth The Tooth is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Republican Senator Ben Sasse:
"Mr. President:
Are you recanting of the Oath you took on Jan. 20 to preserve, protect, and defend the 1st Amendment?"
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/be...rticle/2637259
"Just curious. It's not as if I'm going to do anything about it, I just want to know if I should act all pious and troubled or not."
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  #12203  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:05 AM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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Worded like that, he took an oath to defend the First. Doesn't that imply that the rest of them are fair game? Especially that potentially pesky 25th?
  #12204  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:49 AM
The Tooth The Tooth is online now
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I think they come as set, unless Republicans think they can govern à la carte (that's foreign).
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  #12205  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:46 AM
Smapti Smapti is online now
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
Worded like that, he took an oath to defend the First. Doesn't that imply that the rest of them are fair game? Especially that potentially pesky 25th?
Well, he promised to defend Article 12, so we're good there.
  #12206  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:45 AM
Junior Spaceman Junior Spaceman is online now
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We truly live in a world where no matter how much someone is demonstrated to be a hypocrite, it will never make any difference.

"Trump laughs and jokes during solemn “Retreat” ceremony honoring flag while on military base"
  #12207  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:07 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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Originally Posted by Junior Spaceman View Post
We truly live in a world where no matter how much someone is demonstrated to be a hypocrite, it will never make any difference.

"Trump laughs and jokes during solemn “Retreat” ceremony honoring flag while on military base"
In feeble defense, that appears to have been due to his ignorance of the significance of the ceremony. But it's telling that his first thought was that it was all about him.
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  #12208  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:02 AM
Lord Feldon Lord Feldon is offline
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He...he thinks that when the stock market goes up, the national debt goes down? What?

Quote:
"The country — we took it over and owed over $20 trillion," Trump said in an interview on Fox News, referring to the total national debt, which has hovered near $20 trillion since early 2016.

"As you know, the last eight years, [the federal government] borrowed more than it did in the whole history of our country," Trump said. "So they borrowed more than $10 trillion, right? And yet we picked up $5.2 trillion just in the stock market. Possibly picked up the whole thing in terms of the first nine months, in terms of value."

"So you could say, in one sense, we're really increasing values. And maybe in a sense we're reducing debt. But we're very honored by it," Trump said.
Is it really that easy to buy a degree from an Ivy League business school?
  #12209  
Old 10-12-2017, 07:59 AM
Knowed Out Knowed Out is offline
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I guess so, since his negotiating tactic with Mexican leaders over funding the wall was him whining that he couldn't live with their refusal to pay for it.
  #12210  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:10 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Now he's about ready to completely rip up NAFTA without any sort of replacement. He's also apparently telling Canada that he'll have a NAFTA with Canada but not Mexico (Isn't that called a bilateral trade agreement?). Trump is set to make Mexico a long-term enemy of the US and he's making Trudeau look like a weakling and embarrassing Canada in the process.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/11/b...fta-trump.html

He's also now apparently going to kill the insurance marketplace without any sort of replacement or backup plan. Interestingly enough, this piece that criticizes Herr Trump is written by Ramesh Ponnuru, who's made a living by being a knee-jerk partisan hack. I guess republitards are just now beginning to figure out that their investments - and those of millions of other dumbasses who drank republican kool aid for all these years - are about to take a nosedive.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...an-the-disease

Meanwhile, Trump is also going to remove any sort of credibility and leverage to propose a deal with North Korea by impulsively ending the Iranian nuclear deal.

I think now even conservatives are starting to figure out that Trump is a master con artist and that he was never a businessman; he's just a billion dollar fraud, propped up by shady investors around the globe (Russia). Trump can't actually make anything; he just breaks stuff. America has elected a 10-year-old president.
  #12211  
Old 10-12-2017, 08:34 AM
Fiveyearlurker Fiveyearlurker is offline
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Do you think Republicans would be more willing to jump ship if the rest of us solemnly promise to only say, "I told you so" one time?
  #12212  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:24 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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But America is being respected again!
  #12213  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:30 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
In feeble defense, that appears to have been due to his ignorance of the significance of the ceremony. But it's telling that his first thought was that it was all about him.
One would think with the number of military types that he has put in the White House, that one of them would have tipped him off about this. But if they did, I suspect it went in one ear and meeting no resistance, went out the other.
  #12214  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:30 AM
PatriotX PatriotX is offline
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
You could always check the recent activity of Breitbart, InfoWars, StormFront, and Fox and Friends for clues about what Trump thinks is going on in the world.

Or, perhaps the comments are like Trumps "estimates" of crowd size—simply baseless.
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  #12215  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:36 AM
jsc1953 jsc1953 is online now
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Originally Posted by Gyrate View Post
In feeble defense, that appears to have been due to his ignorance of the significance of the ceremony. But it's telling that his first thought was that it was all about him.
No, no...that would be petty and narcissistic. He thought it was about something much more important: ratings.

(My god--how many times has the word "ratings" escaped his lips? It boggles the mind.)
  #12216  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:42 AM
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Originally Posted by Junior Spaceman View Post
We truly live in a world where no matter how much someone is demonstrated to be a hypocrite, it will never make any difference.

"Trump laughs and jokes during solemn “Retreat” ceremony honoring flag while on military base"
But he didn't kneel so that makes it okay.
  #12217  
Old 10-12-2017, 09:51 AM
asahi asahi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
I read this tasty little nugget in the linked article:

Quote:
One of my generals came in and they said, ‘you know, I have to tell you, a year ago they would have never done that.’ It was a great sign of respect. You’ll probably be hearing about it over the next few days.”
What the ever living fuck? Tell me that's not something Duterte or General Amin would say?
  #12218  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:19 AM
Guest-starring: Id! Guest-starring: Id! is offline
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Originally Posted by Crybaby Boobie View Post
Once again, president Stupid Head and I reluctantly agree on something.

Bolding mine.
Anything else you hang-doggedly agree with him on?
  #12219  
Old 10-12-2017, 10:46 AM
Crybaby Boobie Crybaby Boobie is offline
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I think it was reported that he was very depressed being president at one point. I also am depressed about that.
  #12220  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:07 AM
MrDibble MrDibble is online now
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Originally Posted by asahi View Post
What the ever living fuck? Tell me that's not something Duterte or General Amin would say?
Trevor Noah was right, ages ago:

http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/as...xlarge-169.jpg
  #12221  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:21 AM
Ann Hedonia Ann Hedonia is offline
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
Mexico called. They're going to pay for The Wall!!
  #12222  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:43 AM
eschereal eschereal is offline
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Be careful what you say to students
Quote:
"Right when he got elected, I told my classes, three semesters ago, that some of us won’t be affected by this presidency, but others are going to die," (assistant professor Tessa) Winkelmann said in the video, obtained by the Las Vegas Review-Journal. "Other people will die because of this.… He’s threatened to declare violence against North Korea and other places. And words, especially if they’re coming from someone who is the president, have consequences. . . I don’t know that these events would have inevitably happened whether or not he got elected, but he has rhetorical powers every president has to encourage or to discourage (violence). So far all he’s done is to encourage violence."
and, of course,
Quote:
"It is sad she is teaching students such divisive, inaccurate and irresponsible rhetoric," (Sarah H.) Sanders said. "She should be ashamed of herself, and the university should look into it. What a terrible example to set for students."
"Divisive, inaccurate and irresponsible", damn she is projecting hard.
  #12223  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:45 AM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Do you think Republicans would be more willing to jump ship if the rest of us solemnly promise to only say, "I told you so" one time?
I'm worried that Republicans are thinking "look how bad the government is; next time we need some kind of outsider to shake up the system."
  #12224  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:51 AM
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is online now
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Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Be careful what you say to students

and, of course,

"Divisive, inaccurate and irresponsible", damn she is projecting hard.
And another instance of a Trump official attempting to meddle with the employment of someone they are politically opposed to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
I'm worried that Republicans are thinking "look how bad the government is; next time we need some kind of outsider to shake up the system."
"We just didn't go outside enough."

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-12-2017 at 11:52 AM.
  #12225  
Old 10-12-2017, 11:59 AM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Fiveyearlurker View Post
Do you think Republicans would be more willing to jump ship if the rest of us solemnly promise to only say, "I told you so" one time?
We liberals need to understand that Trump is very popular. His approval rating isn't dropping, it's been steady at around 38% for the past 4 months. His supporters think Trump's failures are due to obstruction by the Establishment, including Republicans in Congress. Unless Democrats understand this and act accordingly, Republicans will send even more Tea Party / Freedom Caucus types to Congress in 2018. Trump will win re-election in 2020 because Democrats will once again think "Trump is so bad, he's going to lose for sure" and stay home on election day.
  #12226  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:01 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
I'm worried that Republicans are thinking "look how bad the government is; next time we need some kind of outsider to shake up the system."
Specifically, "look how bad Congress is." Which is why in the Alabama Senate primary, Roy Moore beat the establishment opponents (incumbent Luther Strange and Congressman Mo Brooks). Yes, Trump endorsed Luther Strange, but that doesn't change the fact that Moore was the Trump-like outsider / populist candidate.
  #12227  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:09 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
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Originally Posted by enipla View Post
I've read 6 books on Kim Jong Un and his regime and life in NK. His insanity and completely disregard for improving the living conditions in his country was a bit of a focus of mine. As you will do, I discussed this with my Wife.

She came home the other day saying "Trump is crazier than Jong Un". I'm starting to agree. But Trump is just plain stupid too. Kim Jong Un is not.
I don't know about whether Trump is dumber or crazier than Kim. Both have severe Narcissism and are not particularly bright. But if something bad goes down in Korea, it's much more likely to be Trumps fault for two reasons. First Kim is more knowledgeable about the issues involved, having spent his whole life immersed in it as about to a few of hours of military briefings dialed to to a sixth grade reading level. Also Kim's life is on the line so he won't take any reckless chances, while Trump is playing with other peoples lives, and would gladly trade in the lives of a couple of hundred thousand South Koreans if it meant higher ratings for him. Heck, even if Kim did have a ballistic missile capable of hitting the US, it not like California voted for him.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 10-12-2017 at 12:11 PM.
  #12228  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:11 PM
Wolf333 Wolf333 is offline
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Originally Posted by Junior Spaceman View Post
We truly live in a world where no matter how much someone is demonstrated to be a hypocrite, it will never make any difference.

"Trump laughs and jokes during solemn “Retreat” ceremony honoring flag while on military base"
The article states that he was in a hangar at the time. No requirement to stand while in a building.

I hate the piece shit, but let’s save our ire for things that deserve it.
  #12229  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:14 PM
Airbeck Airbeck is offline
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Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
We liberals need to understand that Trump is very popular. His approval rating isn't dropping, it's been steady at around 38% for the past 4 months. His supporters think Trump's failures are due to obstruction by the Establishment, including Republicans in Congress. Unless Democrats understand this and act accordingly, Republicans will send even more Tea Party / Freedom Caucus types to Congress in 2018. Trump will win re-election in 2020 because Democrats will once again think "Trump is so bad, he's going to lose for sure" and stay home on election day.
No, it is not holding steady:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/10/trum...ery-state.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.3551731
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  #12230  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:21 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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....No requirement to stand while in a building...
With all due awe and an utter absence of snarkitude....wha? The "requirement". for starters, and then "building"? Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get this, but I don't get this. I mean, what the Hell can you be inside of that wasn't built? A cave, I guess, so the nature of correct and respectful display would be totally different in a cave?

Maybe its finally happened, and my brains have turned to cheese. I gape, I stare, I don't get it...
  #12231  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:24 PM
Paranoid Randroid Paranoid Randroid is offline
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Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
We liberals need to understand that Trump is very popular. His approval rating isn't dropping, it's been steady at around 38% for the past 4 months.

I don't think I can agree; the overall trend is still downward, but with sufficient gradualness that looking only at a few months could be misleading.

Further, 38% isn't anywhere near "very popular". It's more popular than he should be, agreed. But it ain't great.
  #12232  
Old 10-12-2017, 12:29 PM
Skywatcher Skywatcher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
We liberals need to understand that Trump is very popular. His approval rating isn't dropping, it's been steady at around 38% for the past 4 months. His supporters think Trump's failures are due to obstruction by the Establishment, including Republicans in Congress. Unless Democrats understand this and act accordingly, Republicans will send even more Tea Party / Freedom Caucus types to Congress in 2018. Trump will win re-election in 2020 because Democrats will once again think "Trump is so bad, he's going to lose for sure" and stay home on election day.
https://apnews.com/f7d770542f334a218...ight-direction
  #12233  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:02 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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See, this is what I'm talking about - liberals in denial about Trump's popularity. This is how liberals will fail to defeat Trump in 2020.

Just look at the poll trends. Every time Trump did something horrible and polls dropped slightly, the media cried "Trump popularity dropping in all states!" but the numbers slowly creep back up, until it happens again. His approval rating is still higher than it was in August.

And of the people saying the US is heading in the wrong direction, many think the "right" direction is where Trump wants us to go, and Congress is stopping him from achieving his goals.

We can't be complacent. We can't just sit back and watch Trump self-destruct - because he isn't, at least not yet.

Last edited by scr4; 10-12-2017 at 01:03 PM.
  #12234  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:08 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Randroid View Post
Further, 38% isn't anywhere near "very popular". It's more popular than he should be, agreed. But it ain't great.
Just before the election, polls showed Trump's favorability rating at 37%. He still won. Favorability isn't exactly the same thing as approval, but I think most voters would respond the same to both questions.

Last edited by scr4; 10-12-2017 at 01:09 PM.
  #12235  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:12 PM
Paranoid Randroid Paranoid Randroid is offline
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See, this is what I'm talking about - liberals in denial about Trump's popularity. This is how liberals will fail to defeat Trump in 2020.

...

We can't be complacent. We can't just sit back and watch Trump self-destruct - because he isn't, at least not yet.

I don't think failing to catastrophize the results of an election three years out of complacency, particularly when the disliked incumbent is -- contrary to your statements here -- historically quite unpopular. Yes, his approval rating bounces around, but we'll need more time to suss out whether the downward trend is over.

That doesn't mean you should lean back, kick up your heels, say "we got this", and not vote. I think a realistic view of the numbers is compatible with recognizing the urgency of political action.
  #12236  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:17 PM
Biffster Biffster is online now
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Randroid View Post
I don't think I can agree; the overall trend is still downward, but with sufficient gradualness that looking only at a few months could be misleading.

Further, 38% isn't anywhere near "very popular". It's more popular than he should be, agreed. But it ain't great.


I think the point is that that mid-30% ish number is a block of stone. Those are the die-hard Trump supporters that will prefer him no matter how badly he botches things. That's a very large number—at least fifty million Americans. Those are the ones you need to worry about. How do you change their minds? How do you persuade them?
  #12237  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:20 PM
Biffster Biffster is online now
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Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
See, this is what I'm talking about - liberals in denial about Trump's popularity. This is how liberals will fail to defeat Trump in 2020.

Just look at the poll trends. Every time Trump did something horrible and polls dropped slightly, the media cried "Trump popularity dropping in all states!" but the numbers slowly creep back up, until it happens again. His approval rating is still higher than it was in August.

And of the people saying the US is heading in the wrong direction, many think the "right" direction is where Trump wants us to go, and Congress is stopping him from achieving his goals.

We can't be complacent. We can't just sit back and watch Trump self-destruct - because he isn't, at least not yet.


Liberals don't need to defeat Trump; they need to find a new leader that the population can get behind. Hillary wasn't it. Bernie could have been it. I think he was a better leader than Hillary proved to be.
  #12238  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:23 PM
elucidator elucidator is online now
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I'm guessing the lowering of numbers has more to do with previously apathetic people getting their mad on. People who ignored polling before, didn't respond, etc. And here we are, people who didn't give a shit yesterday are our best hope.
  #12239  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:32 PM
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
With all due awe and an utter absence of snarkitude....wha? The "requirement". for starters, and then "building"? Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get this, but I don't get this. I mean, what the Hell can you be inside of that wasn't built? A cave, I guess, so the nature of correct and respectful display would be totally different in a cave?

Maybe its finally happened, and my brains have turned to cheese. I gape, I stare, I don't get it...
Also, if that is the rule, I'm pretty sure a stadium is a building.
  #12240  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:34 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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Liberals don't need to defeat Trump; they need to find a new leader that the population can get behind.
I hope this is satire. Because this is exactly what Democrats are doing wrong - relying on individual candidates rather than strategic moves to gain power. Just find the right Presidential candidate and all will be well?? Sure, maybe you win the Presidency, but you lose seats in Congress, lose state Governor races, lose state legislature races, you end up letting Republicans rewrite congressional districts.
  #12241  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:37 PM
Maus Magill Maus Magill is offline
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If I had a million dollars, I would put this picture on billboards in cities across the country with the caption, "This is what happens when you don't vote!"

Then I'd buy a green dress.
  #12242  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:40 PM
Airbeck Airbeck is offline
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I hope this is satire. Because this is exactly what Democrats are doing wrong - relying on individual candidates rather than strategic moves to gain power.
What strategic moves are you referring to here? Can you list a few moves that you think the Democrats should be making right now that they aren't already doing? I mean we're not going to reach out to Russia for help or anything like that obviously.
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  #12243  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:54 PM
Bayard Bayard is offline
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If I had a million dollars, I would put this picture on billboards in cities across the country with the caption, "This is what happens when you don't vote!"

Then I'd buy a green dress.
Haven't you always wanted a monkey?
  #12244  
Old 10-12-2017, 01:59 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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What strategic moves are you referring to here? Can you list a few moves that you think the Democrats should be making right now that they aren't already doing?
- Make the campaigns be about what they stand for. Because being anti-Trump isn't good enough.

- More spending on local elections (state legislatures etc), even if it means less money spent on federal elections. Partly because state legislatures control voting districts, and partly because some of the best candidates for higher office come from local offices.

- More spending in red states. Howard dean had the right idea with his 50-state strategy.
  #12245  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:03 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is offline
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I don't know who Sharyl Attkison is, but Trump is relying on him/her to tell him it's time to pull federal workers out of Puerto Rico.
"Puerto Rico survived the Hurricanes, now a financial crisis looms largely of their own making." says Sharyl Attkisson. A total lack of.....
...accountability say the Governor. Electric and all infrastructure was disaster before hurricanes. Congress to decide how much to spend....
...We cannot keep FEMA, the Military & the First Responders, who have been amazing (under the most difficult circumstances) in P.R. forever!"

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...28456869916672
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...30769776914432
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...32809282342912
  #12246  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:09 PM
Airbeck Airbeck is offline
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Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
- Make the campaigns be about what they stand for. Because being anti-Trump isn't good enough.

- More spending on local elections (state legislatures etc), even if it means less money spent on federal elections. Partly because state legislatures control voting districts, and partly because some of the best candidates for higher office come from local offices.

- More spending in red states. Howard dean had the right idea with his 50-state strategy.
What makes you think this isn't happening? Democrats have won quite a few special elections for state legislative seats recently. Lots of money has been spent on every race that has come up since the November election, winning in several historically Republican districts. Democrats will be going after the open Senate seat in Alabama, and seem to have an outside fighting chance given the Republican candidate. They will be contending for every Senate seat, both Red and Blue states.

You can already see the effort being put into the House for 2018:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer...2018-wave.html

I don't disagree with your three examples, but I think that's already all in the works if you are paying attention.
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Last edited by Airbeck; 10-12-2017 at 02:10 PM.
  #12247  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:13 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
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The second link is about how Trump is losing his rural vote - because he's not effective enough at carrying out his racist policies.

Trump might get less popular over time, but it will be due to people finally recognizing (and remembering) that he's an incompetent, not due to people becoming more liberal or less shitty. That core 38% he has? They will never change sides, and will never be taught. It will not matter to them how good the person the democrats nominate is; they don't care. They only care about how awful and racist their guy is - the worse the better.

This is not to say the democrats don't need to put forth a good candidate - they do. But that will be to motivate the other 62% to get out and vote for a non-shithead. Because you can be confident that the republicans will always be able to find somebody shitty enough to scoop up that easy 38%.
  #12248  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:16 PM
scr4 scr4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airbeck View Post
What makes you think this isn't happening?
I know this is happening to some extent. My point is that most liberals on this board seem to be stuck in the old mindset, and in denial of Trump's popularity (every time I point out that Trump's approval rating seems stable, I get vehement disagreements as you can see above). I get the impression that most of us think Trump is destroying the Republican party, and all we have to do is sit back and watch. Which is a dangerous mentality, setting us up for failure and denial in future elections.

Last edited by scr4; 10-12-2017 at 02:18 PM.
  #12249  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:18 PM
Airbeck Airbeck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
I know this is happening to some extent. My point is that most liberals on this board seem to be stuck in the old mindset, and in denial of Trump's popularity. I get the impression that most of us think Trump is destroying the Republican party, and all we have to do is sit back and watch. Which is a dangerous mentality, setting us up for failure and denial in future elections.
I don't think its that. We can take pleasure in the schadenfreude of the GOP infighting and inability to work with each other, and also take efforts to make sure we do better in 2018. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
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  #12250  
Old 10-12-2017, 02:22 PM
DragonAsh DragonAsh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maus Magill View Post
Then I'd buy a green dress.
I hope it's not a real green dress, that’s cruel.
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