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  #1  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:33 AM
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Has this Board Changed?


I have been a member of this board since 2001. Initially I posted regualrly and comprehensively engaging in deep discussion and pleasant banter over many contentious and non-contentious subjects. real life caught up and I drifted away and lost my charter membership as a brought up a young family.

I have come back to the board and find that the atmosphere here is considerably different. A decade ago the board was a haven on the internet for its lack of abuse and snarkiness- people criticised each other fairly, avoided ad hominem attacks and respected rules of debating. I thought of it as the best moderated board I had ever posted on.

It was heavily Internationalist (we even had a British Doper board in the UK - there were so many of us! Arguments rarely descended into petty nationalisms even when contentious politics or social issues that split different cultures were being discussed. I never felt angry at other posters and I like to think that other posters did not feel angry at me. It was like being a member of the best debating society in the world.

I now find that debates on contentious subjects rapidly descend into snarkiness, poor debating techniques and concealed abuse and insults. I must say I have risen to this as I find such behaviour offensive. Until a few weeks ago I had rarely received any warnings from moderators and suddenly I found that I had four in a row for responding to what I saw as abusive posts.

What has changed? I post on other boards and have not observed a similar descent there so I cannot believe it is just my behaviour that is different. It saddens me as whereas I used to feel really warm about my membership here and used to direct like minded people here, I now find the attitudes and responsive less acceptable and the general culture no longer amenable to reasoned debate.

It is sad, but I suspect I am on the road out of here which will be a sad loss.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Pjen View Post
I have come back to the board and find that the atmosphere here is considerably different. A decade ago the board was a haven on the internet for its lack of abuse and snarkiness- people criticised each other fairly, avoided ad hominem attacks and respected rules of debating. I thought of it as the best moderated board I had ever posted on.
I think you're viewing the past through rose-covered glasses. If anything, it is less snarky now. It's also possible that your view is an artifact of the types of threads that you engage in.

Certainly, the board was, and is, the best moderated I've ever posted on, but that doesn't mean we put on our Miss Manners pants before we type out a post.
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Old 08-31-2014, 04:52 AM
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I think you're viewing the past through rose-covered glasses. If anything, it is less snarky now. It's also possible that your view is an artifact of the types of threads that you engage in.

Certainly, the board was, and is, the best moderated I've ever posted on, but that doesn't mean we put on our Miss Manners pants before we type out a post.
I suspect that it may have something to do with US attitudes after 9/11 as defensiveness about US interests has increased over the years. I was educated in the US and had many long and positive discussions with Americans about differences between US and other societies- always one of my talking points as random cultural differences have always fascinated me. It seems to me that it was much easier to defend a non-American view in the early days than it is now. Looking back over threads we had long discussions about the differences between the US and European approach to, for instance, Free Speech or The death penalty or gun control, where there was little aggressive defensiveness about the American Way being necessarily the best. Now it seems that deviation from 'My Way or the Highway' is close to the norm with abuse and snarkiness being allowed far more than it was previously.

I no longer feel comfortable posting here which is sad.

Just my experience.
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Old 08-31-2014, 07:44 AM
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I'm very sad to hear that y'all think this. I hope it's a perception that's not so. We've never been snark-free and never wanted to be, Cecil certainly excels at snark. But we have wanted this to be a place of reasonably polite discussions.

As moderators, we do find that snark/insult/rudeness comes and goes in waves, during school breaks (summer and Christmas/New Year period), when we get newbies and young'uns who tend to be less... um... well, less experienced, perhaps, in discussions? An experiment: Pjen, you said you've just come back after some hiatus, see if things are better in a month (after school has started)?

I also wonder if it's the rise of the Tea Party and strengthening of the far right wing, that sees "socialism" as a threat -- hence an anti-European stance. (They dare to have universal health care? govt-paid education? etc etc.) Discussion then gets buried by religious-like faith in status quo.

But I don't know. I don't often participate in discussions any more, my time is mostly taken up with moderating and handling Cecil's mail, so I can't verify. I hope that it ain't so.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:43 AM
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Deleted post because on second thought, why bother?

Last edited by Fenris; 08-31-2014 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:23 AM
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I remember those days. We'd promenade about on our penny-farthings, occasionally stopping to enjoy a chocolate phosphate. Fashion then meant one thing only: pinstripes, and plenty of them! The tinkle of the nickelodeon always in the air, above the squeal and clatter of the streetcar. Ragamuffin newsboys crying on every corner. Then 9/11 happened, and everything changed.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:25 AM
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjen View Post
I have come back to the board and find that the atmosphere here is considerably different. A decade ago the board was a haven on the internet for its lack of abuse and snarkiness- people criticised each other fairly, avoided ad hominem attacks and respected rules of debating. I thought of it as the best moderated board I had ever posted on.
I'm sure you must be thinking of some other board. You're imaging some Golden Age that never actually occurred here, as I think a check of threads from that time will easily demonstrate.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
Deleted post because on second thought, why bother?
C’mon Fenis, I’ll send you a nickel if you post your post. All I got is:

Gee, and I wondered if it was the coming to power of a lefter wing, that now has to defend the movement/shift, rather than attack the status quo.

It’s easier to attack than defend.


And I thought of other stuff that needs clarification.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Pjen View Post
I now find that debates on contentious subjects rapidly descend into snarkiness, poor debating techniques and concealed abuse and insults. I must say I have risen to this as I find such behaviour offensive. Until a few weeks ago I had rarely received any warnings from moderators and suddenly I found that I had four in a row for responding to what I saw as abusive posts.
Well, respectfully, it seems you can decide one of two things. You can decide that for some reason the mods are out to get you, or you can choose to change your behavior.

From my, admittedly biased POV, you seem to be getting warnings because you ignore board rules against personal insults or accusations of lying.

Just yesterday you specifically accused me of lying outside the Pit and have yet to be warned so I think it's preposterous to believe the mods are out to get you.

Quote:
Pjen
I have warned you previously about making up stories about what you say I believe and otherwise misrepresenting my views.
I'd recommend rather than complaining just learn to obey the rules. You'll be happier, and I say that from personal experience.
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjen
Arguments rarely descended into petty nationalisms even when contentious politics or social issues that split different cultures were being discussed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjen
I suspect that it may have something to do with US attitudes after 9/11 as defensiveness about US interests has increased over the years.
The board has a better-developed sense of irony now.
  #12  
Old 08-31-2014, 12:21 PM
C K Dexter Haven is offline
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Originally Posted by Pjen View Post
I now find that debates on contentious subjects rapidly descend into snarkiness, poor debating techniques and concealed abuse and insults. I must say I have risen to this as I find such behaviour offensive. Until a few weeks ago I had rarely received any warnings from moderators and suddenly I found that I had four in a row for responding to what I saw as abusive posts.
Sorry, I missed that, I was focused on your Europe vs US comments.

Our rule is now, and has always been:
IF you see what you think is an abusive post, DO NOT respond in kind. Hit the REPORT button (little ! in red triangle in upper right corner of post) and let the Moderator handle it. If you respond in kind, then you both get into trouble; the moderator usually can't track down "who started it" because it's been an escalation. Reporting a post instead of responding in kind ALSO will help keep down the snark/rudeness/impoliteness that you were complaining about.

Last edited by C K Dexter Haven; 08-31-2014 at 12:23 PM.
  #13  
Old 08-31-2014, 01:54 PM
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The board's tone has evolved over time, but mostly that's with respect to the consensus attitude towards moderation. Much of that process has been entirely natural, though there are some idiosyncrasies involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pjen View Post
I have come back to the board and find that the atmosphere here is considerably different. A decade ago the board was a haven on the internet for its lack of abuse and snarkiness- people criticized each other fairly, avoided ad hominem attacks and respected rules of debating. I thought of it as the best moderated board I had ever posted on.
It is still the best moderated board on the internet. But GD has always been snark tolerant. Recall that for years, Cecil's column would routinely begin with an insult to the letter writer. The twin missions of the board have always been fighting ignorance and making wisecracks.

The issue actually is that you are trending towards becoming a problem poster. I'm not sure if you're there yet. But problem posters have always caught a fair amount of abuse. Since the beginning. With respect, your posts give the appearance of someone with a lefty superior attitude. That rankles.
Quote:
It was heavily Internationalist (we even had a British Doper board in the UK - there were so many of us! Arguments rarely descended into petty nationalisms even when contentious politics or social issues that split different cultures were being discussed.
Well, the board has always been internationalist by US standards, but it's also been understood that the servers were in Chicago (metaphorically at least). So when you say that the US needs to level up and join the rest of the world with regards to the death penalty, that's not an argument that will find a lot of traction among US residents. It sounds like old world snobbery.
Quote:
...reasoned debate.
Well... I do perceive a shift over the past year or so. Still in evolution. The Giraffe boards were formed with the idea of creating a backyard sandbox with looser and lower debate standards than this board (I'm paraphrasing from memory). So Ad hominem is a way of life and single sentence snark is beloved. Devil's advocacy is frowned upon though. And that's a problem: here at the SDMB, we never settle anything: the best we can hope for is to have the main lines of argument laid out. That happens with some regularity. But at the Giraffe board's putting forth a sense of tolerance, fairness or even garden variety courtesy is likely to have you dinged. Or worse. That culture is propped by the moderation at that board.

Over the past year or so, I perceive that some of those stances have bled into this message board. Lots of vulgar references to certain feminine hygiene products. This has lowered the quality of the debate somewhat, while raising the participation rate of conservative points of view: I consider the latter is a good thing, BTW. And to be clear, I'm not claiming that conservatism is inherently impolite: idiosyncrasies are involved. And the Giraffe boards contain a mix of ideologies.

I've wondered why that attitude hasn't stayed over at Giraffe, but I don't frequent that board so I can't really say. I do perceive that folks there feel somewhat emboldened, for reasons that could indicate a thriving or cannibalistic environment. Snack only knows.
---

A third factor occurred perhaps 6 to 10 years ago: some of the more conciliatory voices on this board drifted away. That might be a natural evolution as well. It would be nice if a few members would take up that mantle, but frankly they would find themselves in more inhospitable environment.1 And folks like myself lack the verbal skill. The moderators often take on this task, but it would be better if member did as well: it aids in the battle against ignorance after all.
----

But mostly I'd say the problem is with the OP herself. That said, she may be one of the canaries in the coal mine: another was the departed poster Honesty. Both of them have gathered that we don't really have an academic discussion here. The SDMB is an exercise in rhetoric, which is something different. That's always been the case, but various disturbances in the The Force ripple across from time to time.




1Here's a shout-out to Left Hand of Dorkness for being one of the few current voices of conciliation. He doesn't always post that way of course, and he doesn't have to.

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 08-31-2014 at 01:57 PM.
  #14  
Old 08-31-2014, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ibn Warraq View Post
I'd recommend rather than complaining just learn to obey the rules. You'll be happier, and I say that from personal experience.
Incidentally, Ibn has really put himself on a higher-quality posting track. He left the problematic zone ages ago and has only gotten better over time. I regularly read his material with interest and I hope he continues to level up.

Bricker's arguments have also gotten tighter over the years. Some posters improve their game.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:17 PM
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Serious question to to the OP: What percent of your posting time in GD is in threads NOT about Israel, anti-Semitism, or the death penalty in the US?
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:23 PM
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John Mace: She has also posted about Scottish Independence. She is for it. She is a transplanted English person in Scotland.
---

Oh yeah: here is factor 5. The American right has veered towards Tea Party nuttiness. Lefties have self-policed increasingly since Mondale took a shelacking in 1984. Bill Clinton was a manifestation of that process.

At any rate, if you dwell in a certain zone left of the American left, you better have tight arguments, because lefties here won't help you and they might even denounce or at least draw some lines. Righties will unload all their firepower.

Pjen is hardly an extremist, but she does put off a leftier than thou vibe, which can rankle.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:53 PM
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Incidentally, Ibn has really put himself on a higher-quality posting track. He left the problematic zone ages ago and has only gotten better over time. I regularly read his material with interest and I hope he continues to level up.

Bricker's arguments have also gotten tighter over the years. Some posters improve their game.
Thank you very much. I mean that sincerely.

I'd also recommend to Pjen that he or she(I don't know Pjen's gender) adopt the same policy.

There are plenty of lefty posters(I'm generally one of them) who manage to avoid getting repeatedly warned.

Last edited by Ibn Warraq; 08-31-2014 at 02:57 PM.
  #18  
Old 08-31-2014, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Measure for Measure View Post
<snip> The Giraffe boards were formed with the idea of creating a backyard sandbox with looser and lower debate standards than this board (I'm paraphrasing from memory). So Ad hominem is a way of life and single sentence snark is beloved. Devil's advocacy is frowned upon though. And that's a problem: here at the SDMB, we never settle anything: the best we can hope for is to have the main lines of argument laid out. That happens with some regularity. But at the Giraffe board's putting forth a sense of tolerance, fairness or even garden variety courtesy is likely to have you dinged. Or worse. That culture is propped by the moderation at that board.<snip>

Over the past year or so, I perceive that some of those stances have bled into this message board. Lots of vulgar references to certain feminine hygiene products. This has lowered the quality of the debate somewhat, while raising the participation rate of conservative points of view: I consider the latter is a good thing, BTW. And to be clear, I'm not claiming that conservatism is inherently impolite: idiosyncrasies are involved. And the Giraffe boards contain a mix of ideologies.

I've wondered why that attitude hasn't stayed over at Giraffe, but I don't frequent that board so I can't really say. I do perceive that folks there feel somewhat emboldened, for reasons that could indicate a thriving or cannibalistic environment. Snack only knows.
---


I'm not sure what the references to the Giraffe Board have to do with the OP.

Also, if you say "I don't frequent that board so I can't really say," why do you go into detail about the attitudes on that board and end with "snack only knows?"

I personally don't see the connection to the perceived change in the SDMB as posited by Pjen
  #19  
Old 08-31-2014, 02:59 PM
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This board, this community has been active on the internet in some form since 1996.

That's a long time to be doing anything, and nothing stays the same. Attitudes shift, situations change. History and current events change us all, like stones smoothed in the creek bed. And most of all the passage of time, which like those stones are affected, shapes us all.

If we were the same as in 1996, as in 1999, as in 2001, as in last year and all the time between, I'd be worried. That is not the way of the world.

Some people find this place appropriate at different times of their lives. They stay or leave as appropriate. A few even find their way back. But it's not the same; it could never be the same.

Wish you all best, however it works out for you.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:04 PM
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Bolding mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Measure for Measure View Post
Well... I do perceive a shift over the past year or so. Still in evolution. The Giraffe boards were formed with the idea of creating a backyard sandbox with looser and lower debate standards than this board (I'm paraphrasing from memory). So Ad hominem is a way of life and single sentence snark is beloved. Devil's advocacy is frowned upon though. And that's a problem: here at the SDMB, we never settle anything: the best we can hope for is to have the main lines of argument laid out. That happens with some regularity. But at the Giraffe board's putting forth a sense of tolerance, fairness or even garden variety courtesy is likely to have you dinged. Or worse. That culture is propped by the moderation at that board.

Over the past year or so, I perceive that some of those stances have bled into this message board. Lots of vulgar references to certain feminine hygiene products. This has lowered the quality of the debate somewhat, while raising the participation rate of conservative points of view: I consider the latter is a good thing, BTW. And to be clear, I'm not claiming that conservatism is inherently impolite: idiosyncrasies are involved. And the Giraffe boards contain a mix of ideologies.

I've wondered why that attitude hasn't stayed over at Giraffe, but I don't frequent that board so I can't really say. I do perceive that folks there feel somewhat emboldened, for reasons that could indicate a thriving or cannibalistic environment. Snack only knows.
Wow. For someone who doesn't frequent a message board, you sure know a shit-ton about its culture. I'm impressed.

Why are you even referencing another message board when Pjen is talking about the SDMB? What has some other community got to do with what the OP is seeing here?

As far as the OP goes, I have to say it is rose-colored glasses. The place has always been pretty vicious. Are you sure you were as observant in the past as you are now? To be honest, I thought you were a relative newcomer... I don't even remember seeing your name around all that often until a few months ago. Are you posting more than you used to? (Just checked: Yup, I notice that of your 3K posts, at least 500 have been in the past two months!) So maybe an increased participation is what leads to your disillusionment. Reading a board is very different from actively taking part in conversations here, and unfortunately poking your head over the parapets sometimes means getting an arrow in the eye.

Edited to add: Annnd I see samclem has made the same point. Ninjaed!

Last edited by choie; 08-31-2014 at 03:06 PM.
  #21  
Old 08-31-2014, 03:29 PM
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Well, as I understand M4M's point, Giraffe Boards a) shares a lot of its membership with SDMB and b) has looser standards of moderation. Therefore, some posters learn different habits over there and are emboldened by community encouragement of behaviors that lead to moderation here. Therefore, their posts are more likely to not be in line with standards here.

I don't really know if that's true or not, but it's an argument, and it is relevant to the OP insofar as it provides an explanatory framework.
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Old 08-31-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Measure for Measure
Incidentally, Ibn has really put himself on a higher-quality posting track. He left the problematic zone ages ago and has only gotten better over time. I regularly read his material with interest and I hope he continues to level up.
FWIW I agree with this.

I doubt Bricker has changed much - he was always as good as this.

The boards have changed, but I think the trend began mostly with the 2004 elections, and got a push with the elections of 2006-2008. People were outraged that they didn't get what they wanted in 2004, and then things were all supposed to start a steady upward trend in 2008, when the Dems were in control of Congress and the White House, and we would get universal health care/impeach Bush/tax the rich and use the money to fix everything. Then they found themselves outnumbered 41-59 in the Senate and Obama wasn't the seminal figure they all expected he would be.

Obama isn't any more popular with the general public than Bush was, howling racism at every criticism isn't working for them, there are a lot more states that ban gay marriage than have implemented it (or had it forced upon them by judicial activism), and it appears the Congress is slated to return to GOP control.

I couldn't comment on the other board mentioned, as I don't have much of a feel for how it runs and don't go there much.

And Polycarp died. God rest his soul.

Regards,
Shodan
  #23  
Old 08-31-2014, 04:01 PM
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This thread is really getting beyond the original question and is going to discussions way beyond the scope originally intended.

About This Message Board is open for comment, even complaint and criticism. But such comment, complaint, and criticism should be devoted to the Straight Dope Message Board; it is the only message board this forum can do anything about.

If you have comment, criticism, or complaint about other places, there's more appropriate situations for that ... maybe even best of all at the relevant board that is the topic of discussion.

Last edited by TubaDiva; 08-31-2014 at 04:02 PM. Reason: way too much
  #24  
Old 08-31-2014, 05:30 PM
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As to the board "changing" and supposedly becoming less receptive to an internationalist point of view (whatever that is):

I clearly recall Pjen doing his/her "Europe vs. U.S." shtick over a decade ago, and not getting a very cordial reception with it, even from posters on the left of the political spectrum who were disposed to be sympathetic towards criticism of certain U.S. policies.

My take is that the board has not changed much (certainly not in terms of snarkability), and if posters with a xenophobic anti-USer mentality* keep hammering away nonstop on their idée fixes, people do get tired of it.

*I can't recall his name, but years ago there was a poster with an Arabic-sounding username whose favorite pejorative was "USer" and who eventually flamed out after borrowing anti-Semitic material from a website of dubious provenance.
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Old 08-31-2014, 05:39 PM
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Pjen is hardly an extremist, but she does put off a leftier than thou vibe, which can rankle.
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Originally Posted by Jackmannii View Post
As to the board "changing" and supposedly becoming less receptive to an internationalist point of view (whatever that is):

I clearly recall Pjen doing his/her "Europe vs. U.S." shtick over a decade ago, and not getting a very cordial reception with it, even from posters on the left of the political spectrum who were disposed to be sympathetic towards criticism of certain U.S. policies.

My take is that the board has not changed much (certainly not in terms of snarkability), and if posters with a xenophobic anti-USer mentality* keep hammering away nonstop on their idée fixes, people do get tired of it.
I can't speak for all Americans, but I never tire of hearing that I live in the most worstest country in the world, ever.

Quote:
*I can't recall his name, but years ago there was a poster with an Arabic-sounding username whose favorite pejorative was "USer" and who eventually flamed out after borrowing anti-Semitic material from a website of dubious provenance.
Aldeberon? (not sure of the spelling)
  #26  
Old 08-31-2014, 07:50 PM
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I havre to say that I've seen similar things that the OP commented on. I always just chalked it up to the fact that when I think back to the glory days of the SDMB it was before Google, twitter and Wikipedia. People asked interesting questions that nobody could find the answers to and there were lots of good thoughts and theories posed. These days if I want to know something the SDMB is one of the last places I go instead of the first.

This means more of the askers are less adept at using the internet, many of the questions have already been answered here and those that haven't can be found with a few minutes on Google. So instead of the question lingering or a few days or a week accumulating everyone's thoughts and feelings it gets asked then immediately answered. Once the "right answer" has been given the thread degenerates into nitpickiness' nonsense or snarkiness.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:19 PM
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Aldeberon? (not sure of the spelling)
Aldebaran

My post is my cite.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:33 PM
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Incidentally, Ibn has really put himself on a higher-quality posting track. He left the problematic zone ages ago and has only gotten better over time. I regularly read his material with interest and I hope he continues to level up.
I agree.
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:42 PM
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MODERATOR ALERT: Let's please NOT start a discussion here about a different board, whether Giraffe's or any other. Criticism of this board, fine, but not compare-and-contrast to any other board borders on ... well, unacceptable directions.
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Old 08-31-2014, 09:38 PM
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Message already received from Tuba, Dex, but thanks for the reminder.
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:13 PM
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I've been at least reading it since the 90's - doesn't seem much different to me. If anything, less histrionic. Some well-known posters (rest their souls) have passed on, others have moved on.

Some attitudes have changed, others remain fairly solid. Still not very tolerant of anti-Israel screeds based on one's personal feelings, for example.
  #32  
Old 08-31-2014, 10:56 PM
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I really don't see a huge difference since I've been here. Some prolific posters come and go and the board tone changes a bit but I still think it's basically the same. But I do stay out of GD where most of the drama seems to be centered. That hasn't changed either but maybe the brand of drama has.
  #33  
Old 09-01-2014, 05:31 AM
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I havre to say that I've seen similar things that the OP commented on. I always just chalked it up to the fact that when I think back to the glory days of the SDMB it was before Google, twitter and Wikipedia. People asked interesting questions that nobody could find the answers to and there were lots of good thoughts and theories posed. These days if I want to know something the SDMB is one of the last places I go instead of the first.

This means more of the askers are less adept at using the internet, many of the questions have already been answered here and those that haven't can be found with a few minutes on Google. So instead of the question lingering or a few days or a week accumulating everyone's thoughts and feelings it gets asked then immediately answered. Once the "right answer" has been given the thread degenerates into nitpickiness' nonsense or snarkiness.
I had not thought of that, but you are probably right that that is part of the change. There used to be a considerable amount of weighing of evidence and discussion in GD with tolerance for outlying views, but now it seems that such brief debate soon turns into ad hominem or other defensive answers.
  #34  
Old 09-01-2014, 06:30 AM
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Of course this place has changed. It's always changed. Change is constant.
  #35  
Old 09-01-2014, 06:38 AM
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Of course this place has changed. It's always changed. Change is constant.
Always hopeful, yet discontent
He knows changes aren't permanent
But change is


Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

I get all my wisdom from Rush.
  #36  
Old 09-01-2014, 06:43 AM
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Damn straight.

Well, except the first album.
  #37  
Old 09-01-2014, 06:50 AM
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And the onions on our belts. Can't forget them!
Onions and Squid.
The SDMBs ironclad commitment to Squid has never waved.
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  #38  
Old 09-01-2014, 07:05 AM
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MODERATOR COMMENT:
There seem to be two different topics here. One is whether the SDMB has changed, which is appropriate ATMB discussion. The other is whether that change is due to changes in the US towards Europe, in general (which is a point I raised early on.) That's really NOT an ATMB discussion, but it's here, and there's obvious interaction between the two topics. So, we're going to proceed with that in mind, BUT there are to be no personal insults directed at posters. Right?
  #39  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:13 PM
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How on Earth could a board not change over 13 years? Even if no posters left and no posters joined, it would still be made up of entirely different people...
  #40  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:32 PM
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Not having read the thread...

When I joined, there was a lot more snark. Insults outside of the pit were plentiful and blunt. You could say 'cunt'. The Pit seemed to be more for flaming posters than for recreational outrage.
  #41  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:34 PM
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Because of Bosda now I'm reduced to singing "la la la lalala la" instead of making a meaningful comment.

Thanks a lot.

"The only thing that is constant is change. Except from a vending machine."
  #42  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:52 PM
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A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog cart and tells the vendor, "Make me one with everything." He hands the vendor a $20 bill and the vendor hands him a hot dog but no change. The Buddhist asks, "What about my change?"

The vendor replies, "Change comes from within."
  #43  
Old 09-01-2014, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cochrane View Post
A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog cart and tells the vendor, "Make me one with everything." He hands the vendor a $20 bill and the vendor hands him a hot dog but no change. The Buddhist asks, "What about my change?"

The vendor replies, "Change comes from within."
Beat you!
  #44  
Old 09-01-2014, 03:19 PM
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Damn! I'm always a dollar short and thirteen years too late!
  #45  
Old 09-01-2014, 03:28 PM
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Damn! I'm always a dollar short and thirteen years too late!
I guess nothing has changed. Even the jokes are the same.
  #46  
Old 09-01-2014, 05:17 PM
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i guess nothing has changed. Even the jokes are the same.
#3.

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!
  #47  
Old 09-01-2014, 06:39 PM
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No, you told it wrong.
  #48  
Old 09-01-2014, 07:17 PM
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I now find that debates on contentious subjects rapidly descend into snarkiness, poor debating techniques and concealed abuse and insults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by C K Dexter Haven View Post
MODERATOR ALERT: Let's please NOT start a discussion here about a different board, whether Giraffe's or any other. Criticism of this board, fine, but not compare-and-contrast to any other board borders on ... well, unacceptable directions.
It is a little sticky. I'll try to stay meta. The OP asked about the evolution of *this board's* culture, and I listed five factors. One of which involved a board whose membership has overlap with this one, and which occasionally features threads inviting members to visit a thread on this board and interact in a certain fashion. Or what Do Not Taunt said. I'm actually not particularly outraged: I just think it's relevant to an ATMB thread on the evolution of this board.

To answer the question of others, I believe I have sampled the threads there to a sufficient extent to form my views. I also shared the basis for my views, so the reader could weigh or de-emphasize them accordingly. OTOH, while I think the OP topic is interesting, I'm not too keen on instigating a board war or other sorts of drama. This is this board; that is that board; let a thousand flowers bloom, etc. etc.

I repeat though that the continued evolution of this board is not surprising, not a bad thing, and has multiple causes: I listed ~5; others have been brought up here.

Last edited by Measure for Measure; 09-01-2014 at 07:20 PM.
  #49  
Old 09-01-2014, 07:30 PM
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Has this Board Changed?


Pjen, I've been around for a long time, and I agree that the boards have changed over time, but I don't see it as the major change that you see. Change is inevitable, and I don't agree that 15 years ago it was all sweetness and light. Just dig up some of the threads on the 2000 election…

Instead, I would respectfully suggest that your posting style is very much "in your face" on certain issues, such as the death penalty. I think that the style of your posts is very aggressive and likely to generate heat, but not debate.

Your posts combine smugness, self-certainty, and contempt for many Americans and American institutions, as well as for certain views which are widely-held and supported by many in the US and on the SDMB itself. I think that the natural response to your posting style will be very critical and hostile posts.

I no longer bother opening threads you start in GD, because they will be inflammatory, in my opinion, and will cut off reasoned debate right at the start. For example, equating a beloved participant of the civil rights movement with a convicted murderer, and suggesting that they are equivalent? I can't think of a better way to poison the well right from the start of a thread.

So no, I don't agree with your thesis.

Mods: I am trying very hard to stay on the right side of "critique the posts, not the poster" in these comments. I am really focused on the posting style, but I realise that posting style can be a personal matter. I am not trying to critique Pjen as a person.
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Last edited by Northern Piper; 09-01-2014 at 07:34 PM.
  #50  
Old 09-01-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Northern Piper View Post
Pjen, I've been around for a long time, and I agree that the boards have changed over time, but I don't see it as the major change that you see. Change is inevitable, and I don't agree that 15 years ago it was all sweetness and light. Just dig up some of the threads on the 2000 election…

Instead, I would respectfully suggest that your posting style is very much "in your face" on certain issues, such as the death penalty. I think that the style of your posts is very aggressive and likely to generate heat, but not debate.

Your posts combine smugness, self-certainty, and contempt for many Americans and American institutions, as well as for certain views which are widely-held and supported by many in the US and on the SDMB itself. I think that the natural response to your posting style will be very critical and hostile posts.

I no longer bother opening threads you start in GD, because they will be inflammatory, in my opinion, and will cut off reasoned debate right at the start. For example, equating a beloved participant of the civil rights movement with a convicted murderer, and suggesting that they are equivalent? I can't think of a better way to poison the well right from the start of a thread.

So no, I don't agree with your thesis.

Mods: I am trying very hard to stay on the right side of "critique the posts, not the poster" in these comments. I am really focused on the posting style, but I realise that posting style can be a personal matter. I am not trying to critique Pjen as a person.
I see this as a constructive post.
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