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  #251  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:11 PM
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Yeah, but it can take time for people to accept that sort of fate. In his head, he's got to know he's done. But his heart may not yet be ready to accept it.
  #252  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:19 PM
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Yeah, but it can take time for people to accept that sort of fate. In his head, he's got to know he's done. But his heart may not yet be ready to accept it.
Well, if it is not him, why shoudl he resign?
  #253  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:20 PM
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Well, if it is not him, why shoudl he resign?
Do you really believe it's not him? Really?
  #254  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:28 PM
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Northam isn't resigning because he doesn't feel the need to resign. After all, it was "a joke" among (white) friends, and besides, look what he's done for the Negro in the time since. Would you rather have had Gillespie as governor? Northam "protected" the Negro from the Republican party's racism; therefore, people should be grateful.
  #255  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:31 PM
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I assume he's going to resign, but . . . remember Larry Craig? He announced he would resign then decided to serve out his term, and there was essentially nothing anyone could do about it. I think Northam's in the same boat. His political future is dead, so why not hang onto a job that at least keeps giving you a steady paycheck and the possibility (however remote) that lightning could strike and he can find an angle to turn his fortunes around?

From what I've read Virginia standard for impeachment is limited to acts in office, so he can't be forced out. What does he gain by resigning?
  #256  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:37 PM
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Do you really believe it's not him? Really?
I dont know. Is it him? Or did they pull a prank on him?
  #257  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:38 PM
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I really want to hear from more people who went to school with him.
  #258  
Old 02-03-2019, 10:28 PM
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I dont know. Is it him? Or did they pull a prank on him?
Not outside the realm of possibility, I suppose. But, if so, why did he initially own up to the photographs on Friday, before backtracking on them on Saturday?
  #259  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:09 PM
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Not outside the realm of possibility, I suppose. But, if so, why did he initially own up to the photographs on Friday, before backtracking on them on Saturday?
what were his exact words?
  #260  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:16 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...k-in-politics/

He didnt admit it was him. He apologized for the photo and past indiscretions. That could well be he was sorry that the photo appeared on his page, not that he was in it.
  #261  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:21 PM
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https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/...k-in-politics/

He didnt admit it was him. He apologized for the photo and past indiscretions. That could well be he was sorry that the photo appeared on his page, not that he was in it.
He admitted that it was him at first and then backtracked.
  #262  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:30 PM
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He admitted that it was him at first and then backtracked.

Nope, listen to what he said.
  #263  
Old 02-03-2019, 11:49 PM
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Nope, listen to what he said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.d310e802b0d4

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I am deeply sorry for the decision I made to appear as I did in this photo and for the hurt that decision caused then and now
  #264  
Old 02-04-2019, 06:14 AM
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I dont know. Is it him? Or did they pull a prank on him?
The WaPo article linked to in post 248 has this quote from one of the guys who put the yearbook together:

Quote:
The question of how the photo could have turned up on Northam’s page in the 1984 yearbook from Eastern Virginia Medical School without Northam’s knowledge remained a central mystery.

William Elwood, who helped lay out the school’s 1984 yearbook, said each student was responsible for submitting photos for his or her page in a sealed envelope.

“Every student would provide them — some big envelopes, some small — with their names written on the outside, and we would keep them sealed until it was time to design that student’s page,” recalled Elwood, 68, a retired family practice and emergency room doctor in Mississippi. “I don’t remember exactly after, but I think they were sealed up and given back” to the students, he said.
If that's correct, doesn't matter who's in the pictures. He supplied them himself.
  #265  
Old 02-04-2019, 06:19 AM
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And another article explains why it came to light now:

A tip from a ‘concerned citizen’ helps a reporter land the scoop of a lifetime about Northam

Quote:
The source of the tip appears to have been a medical school classmate or classmates of Northam who acted as a direct result of the abortion controversy that erupted earlier in the week, according to two people at Big League Politics, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

“The revelations about Ralph Northam’s racist past were absolutely driven by his medical school classmate’s anger over his recent very public support for infanticide,” one of the two said.
  #266  
Old 02-04-2019, 07:46 AM
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He admitted that it was him at first and then backtracked.
I thought he might be clumsily saying "I am no longer the person who appeared in that photo". But then he could have expounded.
  #267  
Old 02-04-2019, 07:49 AM
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I thought he might be clumsily saying "I am no longer the person who appeared in that photo". But then he could have expounded.
What he's said has been so bizarre and contradictory that he really, really, REALLY needs to give a full and unfettered explanation of what the hell is going on. Maybe there's some super bizarre version of events that mostly exculpates him.

However, we've been awaiting that full explanation since Friday afternoon. And this isn't the sort of explanation that needs advance crafting. At some point, it's fair to conclude that he doesn't plan to give a full unfettered explanation. And I think that point's already passed.
  #268  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:16 AM
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Northam isn't resigning because he doesn't feel the need to resign. After all, it was "a joke" among (white) friends, and besides, look what he's done for the Negro in the time since. Would you rather have had Gillespie as governor? Northam "protected" the Negro from the Republican party's racism; therefore, people should be grateful.
This deserves a Pitting, so here you go.
  #269  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:20 AM
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What I like is the juxtaposition of:
Quote:
“It’s very easy to explain,” Howley, 29, said in an interview Saturday. “A concerned citizen, not a political opponent, came to us and pointed this out. I was very offended [by the photo] because I don’t like racism.”
With:
Quote:
In its short existence, the website has reliably boosted Trump
Yeah, Howley, tell me more about how this is all about your hatred of racism.
  #270  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:22 AM
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"The Negro"? Seriously?
  #271  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:30 AM
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Yeah, Howley, tell me more about how this is all about your hatred of racism.
"See? The Democrats are the real racists!"
  #272  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:49 AM
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"See? The Democrats are the real racists!"
Well we'll see how the Dem rank and file react. Remember they ignored Mayor Michael Hancock sexually harassment of a women in his security detail that ended up transferring so we'll see if they attack Trump as racist but condone this.
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  #273  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:53 AM
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There isn't much condoning going on right now, is there?
  #274  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:57 AM
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Now the lieutenant governor is denying a charge of sexual assault back in 2004. I wonder how that will play with the #metoo movement/false accusations are rare/believe the woman.

I don't know anything about the alleged inconsistencies in the alleged victim's accusation, but he claims the Washington Post says the accusation is not credible. If that's a good enough standard, he's home free.

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  #275  
Old 02-04-2019, 08:58 AM
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You would think he would have known about this before running and went ahead and told people so it wouldnt have been brought up later.
  #276  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:00 AM
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"The Negro"? Seriously?
Huh? This is obviously supposed to be a parody of the way asahi perceives Northam is justifying what happened. I don't think the parody contributes anything worthwhile to the debate, but I don't see what the problem is in using "Negro" in a supposed parody of regressive attitudes.
  #277  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:02 AM
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Well we'll see how the Dem rank and file react. Remember they ignored Mayor Michael Hancock sexually harassment of a women in his security detail that ended up transferring so we'll see if they attack Trump as racist but condone this.
The Dem rank and file have been saying that he should resign since the beginning.
  #278  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:05 AM
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The Dem rank and file have been saying that he should resign since the beginning.
This is new - about Fairfax now, the Lt Gov who would replace Northam.

Last edited by Riemann; 02-04-2019 at 09:05 AM.
  #279  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:06 AM
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It's pretty obvious this is a witch hunt by the rabid anti-choice brigade, which only strengthens my resolve that the right thing to do is not resign and reward those tactics. It might not be the politically wise thing to do, however.
  #280  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:10 AM
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It's pretty obvious this is a witch hunt by the rabid anti-choice brigade, which only strengthens my resolve that the right thing to do is not resign and reward those tactics. It might not be the politically wise thing to do, however.
The defense "it was a witch hunt" is worthless if they discover an actual witch. The motivation for uncovering bad stuff is ultimately irrelevant - you have to simply weigh the evidence that's uncovered on its merits.
  #281  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:21 AM
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Obviously this is not a legal issue but evidence is thrown out in court regularly due to incorrect procedures of collecting it. One of the benefits of doing so is to not encourage police abuse even though the firm if not vast majority of the physical evidence is legit. (Confessions, not so much.)
  #282  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:24 AM
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What percentage of white males have said or done something racist as a youth that they later regret? More generally, what percentage of Americans have said or done something fill-in-the-blank-ist that they later regret? Is this really such a huge problem that we need to overturn the results of elections for it? Shouldn't the standard be we grow up and learn to be more thoughtful of others?
  #283  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:24 AM
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This would be like a hardcore gangsta rapper supporting the firing of that guy who used the "n word" in context once or twice. When the people supporting outright racism right now are removed from power by the people supporting them, we can listen to them about people who used to be racists.
  #284  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:35 AM
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Shouldn't the standard be we grow up and learn to be more thoughtful of others?
If Northam had said that's what he did, he should certainly have received credit for it.
  #285  
Old 02-04-2019, 09:41 AM
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OK, so the timing of this revelation was politically motivated, and my guess was incorrect. I stand corrected on that. But I agree with Riemann that the motives of the revealer ultimately don't matter: The picture really does exist, it's (almost certainly) really the governor in the picture, he (almost certainly) was proud enough of the picture to enshrine it as a permanent symbol of himself, and all of that was due to his own decisions, actions, and character. Given all of that, he shouldn't be governor, and my only regret about the timing is that it's coming out now (when he can choose not to resign), and not back during the primaries.
  #286  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:02 AM
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If Northam had said that's what he did, he should certainly have received credit for it.
I think he tried to show that he has learned to be thoughtful of others. His administration seems to be working against racist policies. He apologized fully for what he thought was the picture (I think he probably didn't remember the picture correctly before he spoke).

I don't expect my representatives in government to be perfect. I expect them to effectively enact policies I support. I am totally unsurprised they've navigated the same cultural influences I have and came up short of their current aspirations when they were young.
  #287  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:05 AM
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Northam isn't resigning because he doesn't feel the need to resign. After all, it was "a joke" among (white) friends, and besides, look what he's done for the Negro in the time since. Would you rather have had Gillespie as governor? Northam "protected" the Negro from the Republican party's racism; therefore, people should be grateful.
Hate speech or trolling...it took me a a few moments to decide. This is a warning for trolling. If this is what you have left to offer, your stay will be short.

[/moderating]
  #288  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:27 AM
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Obviously this is not a legal issue but evidence is thrown out in court regularly due to incorrect procedures of collecting it. One of the benefits of doing so is to not encourage police abuse even though the firm if not vast majority of the physical evidence is legit. (Confessions, not so much.)
I'm not sure the analogy is apt, though. The police are in a position of great power, so it's critically important to ensure that they follow procedure - and we're sometimes prepared to throw out damning evidence and to free obviously guilty people to ensure that greater good.

It's not clear to me that a bunch of people motivated by hating you digging around for dirt are in a similar position of power. We'd obviously treat witness testimony with great skepticism under such circumstances, but it's hard to imagine why physical evidence gathered by people who dislike you should ever be discounted because of how it was uncovered. Even if the yearbook were found by breaking into his home, we'd prosecute the offenders for that, but should we discount the evidence they found concerning his fitness for office?

Last edited by Riemann; 02-04-2019 at 10:31 AM.
  #289  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:41 AM
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What percentage of white males have said or done something racist as a youth that they later regret? More generally, what percentage of Americans have said or done something fill-in-the-blank-ist that they later regret? Is this really such a huge problem that we need to overturn the results of elections for it? Shouldn't the standard be we grow up and learn to be more thoughtful of others?
Again, it's not just 'said something bad'. It's "did something over-the-top offensively bad, like making fun of black people so much you get the nickname 'Coonman,' and not saying 'yeah that was bad, I've learned since then', but 'oh no, that wasn't me in the picture'".
  #290  
Old 02-04-2019, 10:53 AM
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It's hard to chalk this up to youthful indiscretion. This was the reasoning skills of an adult in medical school in 1984.
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Originally Posted by Inbred Mm domesticus View Post
What percentage of white males have said or done something racist as a youth that they later regret? More generally, what percentage of Americans have said or done something fill-in-the-blank-ist that they later regret? Is this really such a huge problem that we need to overturn the results of elections for it? Shouldn't the standard be we grow up and learn to be more thoughtful of others?
On the one hand, I am of the opinion that many, many people (perhaps even most) say and do things they regret in their youth (even given the extended version of "youth" involved here); god knows there are a few things I said at the time I deeply, deeply regret in retrospect. And people forget that even in 1984 there was a lot of casual racism about that by today's standards is horrifying (just a fun reminder that the BBC was airing this shit up to 1978, only six years earlier).

On the other hand, it's not my ox being gored and even by 1984 standards that's a pretty offensive picture. As already noted, had it been a one-off and Northam had apologized and shown some real contrition and demonstration of personal development, he might have hung on in office. But the "it's me/it's not me/I don't remember" act, combined with the suggestion that this wasn't remotely a one-off, pushes this into "I was hoping no one would notice" territory rather than it being an error borne of ignorance and naivety.

In short: he's toast.
  #291  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:11 AM
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I think forgive and forget should be applied here. It's not like Northam ran on a platform of KKK and blackface. Judge him by who he is now and his actions. I don't like him for his coziness with Dominion Power and his apparent position on late-term abortions if the birth would be mentally stressful to the mother, but I still don't think digging up a tasteless photo from 35 years ago is cause for him to resign.

If we forgive former drug addicts and convicted felons, why not an elected official?
  #292  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:14 AM
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Forgiveness is irrelevant, IMO. Virginia needs a governor who can advocate with strong moral authority against white supremacism. I don't think Northam can do that at this time, and thus he should resign.
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Old 02-04-2019, 11:14 AM
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My cringeworthy confessions:

When I was a teenager, I was a gothpunkdruid or something. I would sometimes draw lines with eyeliner across my face to represent cracks. Other times, I would crush charcoal in a turtle shell and use it to tint half of my face.

But it gets worse.

One English assignment was to prepare a monologue from the point of view of a character in a text we'd read. I chose the devil from some Hawthorne story, where he was described as "The Black Man of the Wood."

...
yup.

I coated my face entirely in charcoal and went up before my class and gave my monologue.

After class, my girlfriend refused to acknowledge me, and I was baffled. Finally she hissed, "I am NOT going to talk to you until you wash your face!"

What gets me is that NO ADULT said anything to me about it. Nobody pulled me aside and said, "Dude. DON'T DO THAT!" It took a fellow teenager to check my shit.

It's among the cringiest moments of an adolescence full of cringes.

BUT I DIDN'T PUT ON GODDAMN KLAN ROBES
  #294  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:17 AM
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I don't know anything about the alleged inconsistencies in the alleged victim's accusation, but he claims the Washington Post says the accusation is not credible. If that's a good enough standard, he's home free.
What are you saying here - that the Washington Post's investigation is not to be trusted, because they're a liberal newspaper?
  #295  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:25 AM
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Does anyone remember Eric Greitens, the Missouri governor who managed to mix personal and campaign indiscretions into a stench that even his own party couldn't stand? It was just last year.

Anyway, it took four months, a formal impeachment hearing, and a plea bargain to get him to resign. These things can take time.

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  #296  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:35 AM
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If we forgive former drug addicts and convicted felons, why not an elected official?
The point has already been made several times: it's not all about being "fair" to Northam.

His life isn't over. He's not going to jail. He can be forgiven and rehabilitated.

He's just can't be rehabilitated as governor. Because that job is not all about him, it's about what the people of Virginia need from the person who represents their interests in a position of great power.
  #297  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:51 AM
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I dunno. Considering they pitched, greenlit, and distributed a mainstream hollywood movie who's entire premise was about a guy doing blackface to get into college, two years after this yearbook photo came out, I think it's really easy to overestimate how "woke" the average person was to this being an egregiously horrible thing in 1984. Granted, I wouldn't have done this in 1984, but that just wouldn't have occurred to me at all (I grew up in the northwest and this just would not have likely organically happened - there was maybe one black kid in my graduating class). I remember at the time being horrified that someone used the n-word around me roughly the same period, but I saw Trading Places, Soul Man, and Tropic Thunder, and several other works featuring blackface since then, and if I was terribly offended, I don't remember it. Tropic Thunder seemed perfectly aware in-universe that black face was offensive and was perfectly content going there "for the lulz" as I'm sure these guys were doing it for halloween (except they weren't profiting from it). Granted this guy is no ally of mine, and if we're going to judge everyone's past by today's standards than we should go after everyone the same (and I think this guy has handled this terribly). I just think it's easy to look at the not so distant past and think we were better than we were as a whole. We weren't.
  #298  
Old 02-04-2019, 11:56 AM
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What are you saying here - that the Washington Post's investigation is not to be trusted, because they're a liberal newspaper?
Fairfax is saying that the Post's investigation is to be trusted. So the accuser must be mistaken, or lying, or confused. So apparently not all women can be believed when they make these kinds of accusations. Go figure.

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  #299  
Old 02-04-2019, 12:03 PM
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Fairfax is saying that the Post's investigation is to be trusted. So the accuser must be mistaken, or lying, or confused. So apparently not all women can be believed when they make these kinds of accusations. Go figure.
And....?
  #300  
Old 02-04-2019, 12:06 PM
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So apparently not all women can be believed when they make these kinds of accusations. Go figure.
Having spending a couple of milliseconds figuring, I have figured out that there's at least some possibility that his enemies are using the reprehensible strategy of appropriating and subverting the valid message of the #MeToo movement.
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