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Old 06-24-2018, 12:13 AM
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Why Republicans still support Trump


Over the last year or so, several people have started threads wondering why Republicans still support Trump. Well, this article does a pretty good job of explaining that.

Quote:
In interviews across the country over the last few days, dozens of Trump voters, as well as pollsters and strategists, described something like a bonding experience with the president that happens each time Republicans have to answer a now-familiar question: “How can you possibly still support this man?” Their resilience suggests a level of unity among Republicans that could help mitigate Mr. Trump’s low overall approval ratings and aid his party’s chances of keeping control of the House of Representatives in November.

“He’s not a perfect guy; he does some stupid stuff,” said Tony Schrantz, 50, of Lino Lakes, Minn., the owner of a water systems leak detection business. “But when they’re hounding him all the time it just gets old. Give the guy a little.”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit.../ar-AAz3ink?li
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:15 AM
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So?

Hitler still had millions of supporters even as Russian tanks were entering Berlin. I don't know why people are curious as to why others "continue" to support Trump - it's the same impulse that has gamblers double down on losing streaks.
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:44 AM
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Why an "apolitical" grandmother voted for Trump


My upbringing included books, as diverse sources of knowledge, and I had read Dreams From My Father by Barack Obama. I recognized that these "dreams" were not the dreams of our Founding Fathers or even the dream of the honorable Martin Luthor King. I did not vote for him, either time. I recognized that I urgently needed to vote, acknowledging my dire ignorance of both the Democratic and Republican candidates. Confronted with this, I chose to embark on an esoteric (ToRaH code and Fixed star natal charts of candidates) and an exoteric research of the political candidates. The latter consisted of researching (spanning approximately thirty years), magazine/newspaper archives, listening to interviews, reading books, and watching documentaries/videos. Somewhere, in the midst of this researching, Julian Assange's "leaked" emails were added, which proved to be exceptionally revealing and valuable. I had already determined the media to be untrustworthy, having long ago, abandoned investigative journalism, sacrificing their integrity on the altar of politically correct expediency.

Contemplating history: A person that is considered undoubtedly the greatest statesmen of the 20th century was once regarded a "Naziphobe" by the intellectual elite of the West. "Humanity owes an inestimable debt of gratitude to Winston Churchill." History has validated this artist, author, historian, orator's perception of what would occur if the Nazis won WWII. Why am I mentioning Winston Churchill, also possessing an ill-considered zeal, arrogant, egocentric, inconsistent, and a kind of "perpetual adolescence" exacerbated by an immoderate use of alcohol? All these strong weaknesses could not prevent Churchill's heroic valor of spirit from being the leader required to summon Europe and the United States to join in the fight against Nazism. Does any of this strike a familiar chord in your soul? I hope so. History is once more beckoning us to learn from its archives. “When the situation was manageable it was neglected, and now that it is thoroughly out of hand we apply too late the remedies which then might have effected a cure. There is nothing new in the story. It is as old as the Sibylline books. It falls into that long, dismal catalog of the fruitlessness of experience and the confirmed unteachability of mankind. Want of foresight, unwillingness to act when action would be simple and effective, lack of clear thinking, confusion of counsel until the emergency comes, until self-preservation strikes its jarring gong–these are the features which constitute the endless repetition of history.” — Winston Churchill at the House of Commons, 2 May 1935.

This "vetting" involved a year of valuable time. Truth requires excavation from deceptive lies, misinformation, and propaganda, and it yielded a rich, rewarding experience. The astonishing synthesis, not anticipated, is all that I had discovered, in both the realm of the metaphysical and the physical, complemented one another, validating diverse variables from each field, creating a more complete and objective perception, simultaneously disagreeing with the media! "As above, so below."
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Old 06-24-2018, 01:56 AM
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I'd imagine part of it comes from two things:
1)Belief (and trust) in what he, as well as what right wing media tells them. Most/many people don't do any research on their own beyond believing what they're told. It's also common to believe, and defend, the first thing you hear about a subject. If you only consume right wing media, he can state that he didn't do something or other, his opponents did and the public will run with it.
2)Most people, I think, have a very have hard time voting for the "other" party. I'd wager that R's will vote R regardless of what's said. I think they'd happily vote R even without hearing anything that's said. I'd be willing to bet you could have a D running for office, make all the same promises as their R counterpart and then some, and most people still wouldn't switch their vote. I don't think it's that they support Trump, it's that they don't support the opposition.

Of all my facebook friends, I have exactly one that will ask for opinions, listen to them, discuss them and actually put thought into them when there's any kind of upcoming vote. She's leans very far right. I can't think of any others that do anything but defend anything their side does and spends a lot of energy telling the world how awful the other side is.

FWIW, this goes the other way as well. Most lefts will defend their side, many without even researching on their own or even hearing out what the other side has to say.

People running for office spend a lot of money to not change other's minds. Go tell a far right business owner that the democratic nominee will lower business taxes and see if they'll vote that way. Hell, I'd be surprised if you could get their vote even if you told them the D nominee will waive all personal and business taxes for business owners, outlaw abortion and put anyone that uses drugs in jail while they're in office.
Just like you could tell a lefty that the R nominee will outlaw guns, legalize marijuana and throw money at planned parenthood and cover 50% of all healthcare costs. All with only a small bump in income tax. Do you think they would have voted for Trump if he'd said that while running?
Do you think there's anything at all Hillary could have said to get a 60 year old religious right to vote D for the first time in their life?

Like John T alluded to, toeing that party line is nothing new.


For the record, I'm not at all well versed in politics so I may very well be way off on this. It just seems to be what I see. It's also late and I'm tired so ignore this if it doesn't make sense.
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:52 AM
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“He’s not a perfect guy; he does some stupid stuff,” said Tony Schrantz, 50, of Lino Lakes, Minn., the owner of a water systems leak detection business. “But when they’re hounding him all the time it just gets old. Give the guy a little.”
I would say three things to Tony Schrantz:

1. We could do better than Donald Trump. But only one person gets to be President. So by occupying the position, Trump is preventing a better President from holding it.

2. The Presidency is a job. Nobody forced Trump to take it. If he wants the job he has to meet the standards and duties of it. If he can't or won't do that, he should leave.

3. Donald Trump is a horrible person. He attacks other people constantly. He's not entitled to receive better treatment than he gives.

Last edited by Little Nemo; 06-24-2018 at 02:52 AM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:30 AM
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I'd love to give the guy a little. What we shouldn't have done was give him a lot. Like, say, the Presidency of the United States.
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Old 06-24-2018, 07:57 AM
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Why wouldn't they support Trump? he's exactly the racist asshole trying to keep America white that they wanted.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
So?

Hitler still had millions of supporters even as Russian tanks were entering Berlin. I don't know why people are curious as to why others "continue" to support Trump - it's the same impulse that has gamblers double down on losing streaks.
Wow. Godwin on the first reply.

Anyway, it's an established fact that people who feel that their political positions are being challenged tend to defend them even more strongly than otherwise. Those poll results shouldn't be too surprising. Trump is governing pretty much the same way he campaigned. If you voted for him knowing all that, then none of this stuff is going to be partially surprising. And the more they get challenged by the so-called elites, the more they feel vindicated.

Last edited by John Mace; 06-24-2018 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:48 AM
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The man, and his party, set up concentration camps for children. Subsequently, it's increasingly harder to "Godwinize" a disussion about Trump as Trump is "Godwinizing" himself and the GOP.
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Old 06-24-2018, 09:58 AM
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"Godwin's Law" is an internet joke; invoking it isn't actually a rebuttal. Mr. Godwin himself has said it doesn't apply in this case anyway.

https://twitter.com/sfmnemonic/statu...84949634232320
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Old 06-24-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Wow. Godwin on the first reply.

Anyway, it's an established fact that people who feel that their political positions are being challenged tend to defend them even more strongly than otherwise. Those poll results shouldn't be too surprising. Trump is governing pretty much the same way he campaigned. If you voted for him knowing all that, then none of this stuff is going to be partially surprising. And the more they get challenged by the so-called elites, the more they feel vindicated.
More observations from god:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mike Godwin himself
In its original simple form, Godwin’s Law goes like this: “As an online discussion continues, the probability of a comparison to Hitler or to Nazis approaches one.” It’s deliberately pseudo-scientific — meant to evoke the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the inevitable decay of physical systems over time. My goal was to hint that those who escalate a debate into Adolf Hitler or Nazi comparisons may be thinking lazily, not adding clarity or wisdom, and contributing to the decay of an argument over time.
Quote:
So let me start another conversation here. Take the argument that our treatment of those seeking asylum at our border, including children, is not as monstrous as institutionalized genocide. That may be true, but it’s not what you’d call a compelling defense. Similarly, saying (disingenuously) that the administration is just doing what immigration law demands sounds suspiciously like “we were just following orders.” That argument isn’t a good look on anyone.
Quote:
By all means cite Godwin's Law if you think some Nazi comparison is baseless, needlessly inflammatory or hyperbolic. But Godwin’s Law was never meant to block us from challenging the institutionalization of cruelty or the callousness of officials who claim to be just following the law. It definitely wasn’t meant to shield our leaders from being slammed for the current fashion of pitching falsehoods as fact. These behaviors, distressing as they are, may not yet add up to a new Reich, but please forgive me for worrying that they’re the “embryonic form” of a horror we hoped we had put behind us.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 06-24-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:09 AM
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Most people who still identify as Republican are either putting up with him realizing he is their best chance at instituting their agenda because he doesn't give a shit what the agenda actually is, or (for the basket of deplorables) he is everything they'd hoped he would be.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:25 AM
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Link to the words from Mike Godwin:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...624-story.html

I have to add that indeed: using the "we were just following orders" is not conducive to give the executive powers a pass against not pointing out that Nazis liked to do that too.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/califo...212128019.html
Quote:
The following is text from the U.S. military tribunal verdict in Case No. 47 of what came to be known as the “Subsequent Nuremberg Trials,” a series of trials of lesser known Nazis in the years following the main Nuremberg cases immediately after World War II.

Case No. 47 is known as “The Hostages Trial,” against Wilhelm List and other Nazi officers accused of taking, and punishing, hostages as reprisals for attacks on Germans and German infrastructure. It was tried from July 8, 1947, through Feb. 19, 1948, and reiterated the precedent that simply saying “I was only following orders” was no defense against charges of carrying out clearly immoral actions.
Quote:
Last week Trump said that desperate young kids trying to cross the border are “not innocent.” His administration, which has long made it a policy to separate husband from wife at the border, has now begun incarcerating asylum seekers en masse – the poor and huddled masses of our troubled age, people with nothing, who walk hundreds of miles, braving rape, robbery and kidnapping in order to reach a land they have been told is generous and kind and empathetic and law-abiding, only to find that that land’s officers now seize their young children as if they were ill-begotten property forfeit in a drug raid.

As numerous journalists and immigration rights attorneys have pointed out, this is absolutely unprecedented, uncharted territory. When Elián González was returned to his father in Cuba, at the end of a gun, in 2000, the image catalyzed outrage around the world; it was used to powerful effect by the GOP in Florida as a mobilizing tool against the Clinton administration and against Gore’s presidential candidacy later that year. Now, a far worse version of the Gonzalez case is occurring on a daily basis, many times a day, across the borderlands; and instead of the kids being sent back to family members, they are being kidnapped by agents of the U.S. government and placed with strangers.

Last month, The New York Times reported that more than 700 children have been taken in this way, and the roundup is intensifying. Immigrant-rights attorneys I spoke with believe another 658 children were taken in this way in one thirteen day period in May alone. This hideous administration has even mused about opening up disused military facilities to warehouse these unfortunate children.

These acts are taking America into the darkest, most anti-democratic, and cruelest moment in its modern history.

We must document these outrages, again and again and again, so that the victims will one day be able to seek justice and legal redress; and our political representatives must make absolutely clear that the men and women who are creating this nightmare will ultimately be held to account for their actions.
Of course, what to make of a party that is Supporting the policies of the ones making mincemeat of international relations, ordering trade wars and making inhumane orders? Either depress yourself or realize that while there are many, they are not omnipotent; and they are just about 42% of Americans. With about 10% of that number as willing to change opinions.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 06-24-2018 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 12:06 PM
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Well, John Mace, I, for one, am glad we got that settled. Comparing the GOP to Nazis, and modern conservatism to Nazi political theory, does not Godwinize a discussion.

Whew! For a second, I worried you had me in the crushing grip of reason!
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:35 PM
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Why wouldn't they support Trump? he's exactly the racist asshole trying to keep America white that they wanted.
Yup, this. We can dance around it all we want. But this will not go away.

To Trumps base, tribalism is more important than anything. To them America is a republican, white, christian patriarchy for native born people.

As long as Trump supports this too (by treating out-groups like democrats, liberals, non-whites, muslims, feminists and immigrants like shit) his base will support him.

If you want Trump's base to turn on him, have him start supporting feminism and immigration from Muslim nations, then have him come out in favor of BLM and the NFL protests.
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:53 PM
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My uncle, who is an outright Communist - I mean a full-on Communist who actually believes that Josef Stalin was a good leader - had this to say about Trump when I asked him his take on the political situation:

"Republicans have never been happier than they are right now. It's never been more fun to be a Republican at any time in history than it is right now. Trump is delivering on most of the stuff he said he was going to do; he made an emotional connection with Republicans that no other politician could do; he's basically killing it."
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:09 PM
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My uncle, who is an outright Communist - I mean a full-on Communist who actually believes that Josef Stalin was a good leader - had this to say about Trump when I asked him his take on the political situation:

"Republicans have never been happier than they are right now. It's never been more fun to be a Republican at any time in history than it is right now. Trump is delivering on most of the stuff he said he was going to do; he made an emotional connection with Republicans that no other politician could do; he's basically killing it."
How is he delivering though? I don't get it.

The border wall isn't built
Illegals weren't rounded up and deported
Muslims are still allowed to immigrate
Blacks are still allowed to protest being mistreated
Women occupy as many positions of power as they did before


Granted, Trump did make life harder for immigrants and foreigners (especially foreigners from muslim nations. A lot of them are scared to go home for fear they won't be able to come back). He also yells a lot about black people standing up for themselves, but he doesn't actually do anything about it.

He is also using MS-13 as a way to demonize all latino immigrants, so I guess his base loves that. Plus being openly racist is far more socially acceptable now (or at least people have less fear of doing it).

Either way, Trump did fulfill some of his promises to declare war on multiculturalism (using MS-13 to portray all latino immigrants poorly. Yelling about blacks protesting police brutality. Making life hell for people caught crossing the border, trying to do a travel ban). But he failed in a lot of other ways too.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:14 PM
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Some of you might benefit from reading this: http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...rump-as-hitler
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:15 PM
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How is he delivering though? I don't get it.

The border wall isn't built
Illegals weren't rounded up and deported
Muslims are still allowed to immigrate
Blacks are still allowed to protest being mistreated
Women occupy as many positions of power as they did before


Granted, Trump did make life harder for immigrants and foreigners (especially foreigners from muslim nations. A lot of them are scared to go home for fear they won't be able to come back). He also yells a lot about black people standing up for themselves, but he doesn't actually do anything about it.

He is also using MS-13 as a way to demonize all latino immigrants, so I guess his base loves that. Plus being openly racist is far more socially acceptable now (or at least people have less fear of doing it).

Either way, Trump did fulfill some of his promises to declare war on multiculturalism (using MS-13 to portray all latino immigrants poorly. Yelling about blacks protesting police brutality. Making life hell for people caught crossing the border, trying to do a travel ban). But he failed in a lot of other ways too.
I think at least part of it is because the driving motivation behind many or most of his supporters is pissing off liberals, in whatever way is possible, and Trump is about the best liberal-pisser-offer the Republicans have ever had.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:15 PM
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"It's the racism, stupid."

(Not a dig of WC.)

Last edited by JohnT; 06-24-2018 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:25 PM
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Those who do not support Trump are more likely to call themselves independent than R now. They mostly still lean GOP but they are declining to call themselves that.

The answer to the OP is selection bias.

Which does not mean that racism is not a factor. Those who are comfortable still identifying with what the party more and more explicitly endorses are in fact supporting racist policies, rhetoric, and actions. They may not self-identify as racist but, well ... we can still identify them as such.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Some of you might benefit from reading this: http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...rump-as-hitler
He also wrote this:

Liberals' permanent state of anti-Trump apoplexy is exhausting and counterproductive
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/l...icle-1.2969299

Thanks for your input. We'll take it from here.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:44 PM
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Some of you might benefit from reading this: http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...rump-as-hitler
And anyone who falls for that bullshit would do well to read this:


https://twitter.com/drvox/status/101...404216832?s=19

Unrolled https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...404216832.html

Last edited by JohnT; 06-24-2018 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:46 PM
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And anyone who falls for that bullshit would do well to read this:


https://twitter.com/drvox/status/101...404216832?s=19

Unrolled https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...404216832.html
That's a great thread. Thanks.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:04 PM
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Some of you might benefit from reading this: http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...rump-as-hitler
Read what Mike Godwin said about that, the blunder is from the ones trying to normalize Trump; and no, it is not calling him a Hitler, but a cosplayer of Hitler, a buffoon closer to Mango Mussolini that while he did not gas jews he did arrest them and their kids late in the war.

It got worse later when Nazis took over Northern Italy, but the point here is that we do need to mind even the cosplay of wannabe dictators or we will ending up supporting it and worst things later. Having the confidence (and I do) that America will get better does not mean that we just should wait for improvements with our arms crossed.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 06-24-2018 at 04:04 PM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:14 PM
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The man, and his party, set up concentration camps for children. Subsequently, it's increasingly harder to "Godwinize" a disussion about Trump as Trump is "Godwinizing" himself and the GOP.
Can you point to a post where you referred to FDR in such terms?
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:28 PM
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related - Arizona GOP only 20% view McCain favorably . For AZ Dems it's 61%. Dear Leader does not like McCain so the party sides with him.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-mc...y-republicans/
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:30 PM
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FDR set up concentration camps for Japanese children after they were torn from their mother's... oh, wait, he didn't. He "merely" set them up for families.



GOP Connedservatives started with children. Where will your "whatabout the worst decision made by a guy dead for 73 years" eventually lead to?

Anyway, here is your post, you proud deflector for evil.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-24-2018 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 06-24-2018, 04:36 PM
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Wishful thinking.
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Old 06-24-2018, 11:01 PM
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How is he delivering though? I don't get it.
Your post assumes that his supporters require him to actually do things like push through laws or policies that actually make their lives better. It all makes much more sense if you just assume that Trumpies don't really CARE about that kind of thing. What they want is overt racism, white supremacy and pissing off liberals. And Trump delivers on all of that like a champion. They're now allowed to give their id free reign and they're LOVING IT.

Whenever you feel the urge to give these deplorable Nazis the benefit of the doubt, remember that most of them wouldn't even give you the courtesy of knocking on your door before they throw you in the camps.
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:37 AM
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Wow. Godwin on the first reply.
This is a fascist regime and his followers are fascists. It would be a travesty NOT to point this out, despite this "law" that some dude came up with. Enough with fucking Godwin already, this got old about 10 years ago.


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Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Your post assumes that his supporters require him to actually do things like push through laws or policies that actually make their lives better. It all makes much more sense if you just assume that Trumpies don't really CARE about that kind of thing. What they want is overt racism, white supremacy and pissing off liberals. And Trump delivers on all of that like a champion. They're now allowed to give their id free reign and they're LOVING IT.

Whenever you feel the urge to give these deplorable Nazis the benefit of the doubt, remember that most of them wouldn't even give you the courtesy of knocking on your door before they throw you in the camps.
Absolutely. They love him because they are full of hate, just like he is. He hates the same people they do. Fuck him and fuck his followers, there is no cure for this cult other than the Grim Reaper eventually showing up and pointing them to the "down" escalator.
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Old 06-25-2018, 07:16 AM
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Some of you might benefit from reading this: http://thehill.com/opinion/white-hou...rump-as-hitler
He seems very concerned.

In the past I would have accepted the sociopolitical divination of a "privacy lawyer in Japan and certified information privacy professional in Canada" without question, but the way things have been lately, I'm going to have to mull this one over.
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:36 AM
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Trump is a fascist. He meets all of the criteria for fascism. He is not Hitler, and he is unlike Hitler in many ways. Fascism has taken a different form in every nation where it's shown up. Mussolini, Franco, and Tojo were also not Hitler. Of the lot of them, Trump is most like Mussolini, but even there, there are differences.

None of which changes the fact that Trump is a fascist, and that fascists should be opposed.
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Old 06-25-2018, 08:51 AM
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This is a fascist regime and his followers are fascists. It would be a travesty NOT to point this out, despite this "law" that some dude came up with. Enough with fucking Godwin already, this got old about 10 years ago.
Emphasis added. That's a great strategy if the goal is turn every discussion involving Trump into a debate about whether or not a Hitler comparison is apt.

As for Trump being a fascist, that gives him more credit than he is due. He has, over the years, maintained a consistent emphasis on economic nationalism, but other than that he doesn't appear to have a political philosophy that extends beyond "what will get me more fame and fortune". He's a useful idiot that demagogues of various stripes, including those with fascist tendencies, might latch onto because of his ability to attract audiences.

Last edited by John Mace; 06-25-2018 at 08:53 AM.
  #35  
Old 06-25-2018, 08:58 AM
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Emphasis added. That's a great strategy if the goal is turn every discussion involving Trump into a debate about whether or not a Hitler comparison is apt.
It only turns into a debate about the aptness of the comparison if someone goes "GodwinGodwinGODwin" every time it's made. I think he desires much more than fame and fortune. He desires to be a dictator and to destroy everyone he deems to be inferior.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:33 AM
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This place gets more and more ridiculous by the day. It's like liberals all across the country suffered a collective stroke on 11/8/16 and their condition has been deteriorating since then.
  #37  
Old 06-25-2018, 09:39 AM
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This place gets more and more ridiculous by the day. It's like liberals all across the country suffered a collective stroke on 11/8/16 and their condition has been deteriorating since then.
We're not the ones advocating putting children in kennels or dispensing with the rule of law in immigration cases.
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:46 AM
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We're not the ones advocating putting children in kennels or dispensing with the rule of law in immigration cases.
What are you talking about? Obama put them in "kennels" too. And decided when Congress wouldn't pass the DREAM Act that he'd just do it anyways, which is about as clear an example of "dispensing with the rule of law in immigration cases" as I can think of.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:03 AM
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A) They hate liberals so much that they'd support Satan himself if they knew it would piss them off.

B) Nobody wants to admit that they were that horribly wrong about their voting decision and their Party.
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  #40  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
He also wrote this:

Liberals' permanent state of anti-Trump apoplexy is exhausting and counterproductive
http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/l...icle-1.2969299

Thanks for your input. We'll take it from here.
His schtick seems to be crying that liberals are too mean to Trump and sagely telling Democrats to stop it or else. He also seems to be a conservative minded guy (surprise!)

Why, oh why, won't these liberal listen to the conservative telling them what the proper way to criticize Trump is? He's only looking out for their best interests!

Last edited by Jophiel; 06-25-2018 at 10:10 AM.
  #41  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:12 AM
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Due process is over rated anyway. MAGA.
  #42  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:12 AM
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What are you talking about? Obama put them in "kennels" too. And decided when Congress wouldn't pass the DREAM Act that he'd just do it anyways, which is about as clear an example of "dispensing with the rule of law in immigration cases" as I can think of.
No, it's not the way Obama did it.

Uh, no. He chose to use discretion in pursuing prosecution. That's his prerogative, and a much more intelligent one that mandatory prosecution of misdemeanor border crossings. And certainly not as outrageous as this.
  #43  
Old 06-25-2018, 10:15 AM
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This place gets more and more ridiculous by the day. It's like liberals all across the country suffered a collective stroke on 11/8/16 and their condition has been deteriorating since then.
Your defense of people who put children into concentration camps is appalling. You are the one who is getting more ridiculous, if what you were defending wasn't so monstrous.

Last edited by JohnT; 06-25-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:18 AM
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Because, from my experience, Trump voters vote on issues THEY care about, and don't care really about how it effects others. One of those issues is installing a slough of right-wing judges which will have ramifications for a generation or more.
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:46 AM
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I didn't say it's "the way" Obama did. I just said that he did it too. Your cite confirms this to be true.

Quote:
Immigration experts we spoke to said Obama-era policies did lead to some family separations, but only relatively rarely, and nowhere near the rate of the Trump administration. (A Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman said the Obama administration did not count the number of families separated at the border.)
Quote:
Denise Gilman, a law professor who directs the immigration clinic at the University of Texas School of Law, said immigration attorneys "occasionally" saw separated families under the Obama administration.
Do you think he deserves a pat on the back because he may have done it less often (but we don't actually know because "the Obama administration did not count the number of families separated at the border")?
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Old 06-25-2018, 10:54 AM
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Again, your defense of people who placed children into concentration camps is morally appalling.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I didn't say it's "the way" Obama did. I just said that he did it too. Your cite confirms this to be true.





Do you think he deserves a pat on the back because he may have done it less often (but we don't actually know because "the Obama administration did not count the number of families separated at the border")?
I think your point in bringing this up is that it's your theory that Trump supporters like Trump because he does things the way Obama did? Is that your point?

Back to the OP, it's weird to support someone more solely because others are being tough on him. First of all, he's the president and the press and others are always tough on the president. Second of all, he's lies to everyone, including his supporters, every day, often several lies per day. I'd like to think I wouldn't support someone who lied to my face as often as he does. (Cue, "Obama lied about being able to keep your doctor!" Even granting that, there's one. Where are all the rest?)

So, is this what a Trump supporter is thinking: Sure, he supports white nationalists and a literal pedophile. Sure, he was separating kids at the border and falsely blaming the Democrats. Sure, he eliminated sanctions on ZTE, a company that was giving forbidden technologies to our enemies, Iran and North Korea, two days after his company got a $500mm loan from China, because he claimed to care about Chinese jobs. Sure..., etc. But, he has my support because some liberal pundit said something mean about him!

That seems to be what the OP is saying.
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Old 06-25-2018, 11:06 AM
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It only turns into a debate about the aptness of the comparison if someone goes "GodwinGodwinGODwin" every time it's made. I think he desires much more than fame and fortune. He desires to be a dictator and to destroy everyone he deems to be inferior.
Here's where we differ re: Lyin' Donnie -- you think he's mostly evil and power-hungry; I think he's mostly venal and greedy. (And lazy.)

If he were given a choice between

1) being the richest and most famous man in the world who has lots of time to golf and party, or

2) being the most powerful dictator of all time, but with no personal fortune, no time for play, and someone else often taking all the headlines

I think he'd choose option 2.
  #49  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:07 AM
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And, of course, what is completely idiotic about the "this is how you get Trump re-elected" argument is that this *wasn't* why he was elected in the first place.
  #50  
Old 06-25-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anny Middon View Post
Here's where we differ re: Lyin' Donnie -- you think he's mostly evil and power-hungry; I think he's mostly venal and greedy. (And lazy.)

If he were given a choice between

1) being the richest and most famous man in the world who has lots of time to golf and party, or

2) being the most powerful dictator of all time, but with no personal fortune, no time for play, and someone else often taking all the headlines

I think he'd choose option 2.
Sure he would. If he was dictator, there'd be no coverage of any scandals because under our new constitution, he would be infallible and any criticism would be punishable by death. He wants everyone to lick his boots be forced to humiliate himself before him. As far as money goes, he doesn't need much because he stiffs everyone anyway.
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