Costs of public workers

[ITR champion]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

Who's "they" in your ranking? California isn't exactly a wasteland of businesses; in fact, they've got more areas named for their utter dominance of a particular industry than any other state I can think of. Clearly they're doing something right. My proposal isn't designed to help them be even better at that; rather, it's designed to shore up the budget shortfall.

Thank you for actually being willing to give us a plan for solving the budget shortfall. However, I've got to say that I don't think much of your plan. First of all, there are countless rankings of states by tax business climate; here's one. It shows California as #48 out of 50. Right now California has one of the nation's highest unemployment rates, and other high-tax places such as Rhode Island, New Jersey, and the District of Columbia are up there as well. Of course there are exceptions. Nevada has low taxes and high unemployment, but nonetheless it's hard to believe that high taxes don't have bad economic effects.

Pointing to areas in California named for their utter economic dominance isn't going to convince. That Silicon Valley is called Silicon Valley tells us something about where it stood in the tech world decades ago, not right now. Lately tech companies have been fleeing California.

[suranyi]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

Thank you for actually being willing to give us a plan for solving the budget shortfall. However, I've got to say that I don't think much of your plan. First of all, there are countless rankings of states by tax business climate; here's one. It shows California as #48 out of 50. Right now California has one of the nation's highest unemployment rates, and other high-tax places such as Rhode Island, New Jersey, and the District of Columbia are up there as well. Of course there are exceptions. Nevada has low taxes and high unemployment, but nonetheless it's hard to believe that high taxes don't have bad economic effects.

Pointing to areas in California named for their utter economic dominance isn't going to convince. That Silicon Valley is called Silicon Valley tells us something about where it stood in the tech world decades ago, not right now. Lately tech companies have been fleeing California.

Some tech companies have been fleeing California but overall, the tech industry is booming here right now. Just in yesterday's Chronicle there was an article about how the hiring boom is pushing rents way up:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BU551OD1PL.DTL

Then today there was an article in which it was said that Yelp just signed a lease for more space in San Francisco:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BUC11OFIV6.DTL

Practically every day there's an article about another tech company either leasing space in S.F. or the Silicon Valley or planning to hire a few hundred people

[Left Hand of Dorkness]

Originally Posted by ITR champion

Thank you for actually being willing to give us a plan for solving the budget shortfall. However, I've got to say that I don't think much of your plan. First of all, there are countless rankings of states by tax business climate; here's one.

If "tax business climate" were a measurement of quality of life, this measurement would matter. However, it's not, so it doesn't. What matters is whether CA's policies are leading to better quality of life for folks who live there. AFAICT, their policies are pretty good for quality of life.

True, unemployment is high in California. Are you suggesting that's because businesses don't want to be there?

[Unintentionally Blank]

Taking a left-hand turn, I can speak to Colorado State Government. There's been a nascent desire to consolidate all IT sections into one big department for the better part of 20 years. 5 years ago, they finally got traction.

The end result is that the staff that DID know their stuff (and there was some, despite the stereotype) got fed up and left. The upper management insulated themselves with architects, directors, and project managers, and they're hell bent to take all the money and send it to the Private sector...despite the fact that there hasn't been a single successful private sector contract as long as I can remember.

So, where IT is concerned, they're doing their level best to do anything BUT IT, and funnel all of the money to the private sector, where there's plenty of money to be made in perpetuating the problem.

[ITR champion]

Originally Posted by Left Hand of Dorkness

True, unemployment is high in California. Are you suggesting that's because businesses don't want to be there?

That would seem to be the logical conclusion.

Meanwhile, how bad is the fiscal situation for local governments in California? This bad.

[Damuri Ajashi]

Originally Posted by What the .... ?!?!

Quickly....... the good guys have proposed various "anti-union" measures:

1. can't be forced to join a union to take a specific job
2. union votes should be by secret ballot
3. your dues do not have to support candidates you disapprove of
4. dues should be paid voluntarily/not taken automatically from your check


In your reply on 05-08-2012 06:14 PM you raised the argument a notch (the term for that bogus argument escapes me) when you said that there weren't any laws compelling non-union people to do any of the above. That's where things got confused. The unions make their own rules.....the proposals I listed seek to prevent them from having those rules.

"The Taft-Hartley Act outlawed the closed shop in the United States in 1947. The union shop, where employees must join the union after being hired, has also been deemed a violation of the U.S. Constitution"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_shop